Water Damage Assessment and Repair

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Thomascine

Question regarding the LED bulbs. The kid was telling me that LED bulbs have to be able to breath and that I would not be able to use them in the TT because the covers did not allow the bulbs to breath, basically they would overheat. I use LED bulbs here at home but they are in ceiling fans with open sconces. I wanted to use LED bulbs in TT.

We have been using LED's in our camper for at least the last 6 to 7 years. They went into the same old fixtures that had the incandescent bulbs in them. These fixtures are by no means water tight or air tight. I have not yet burned them out.

These type of fixtures I'm referring to. There is a plastic cover that goes over the LED's and clicks into the main fixture




All our other fixtures are open flask. I also have those same LED bulbs in the outside door light, the yellow light.

You can see the black old incandescent bulb here and the glass was melted slightly and amazingly still worked. So the old bulbs for sure create heat. That said the LEDs do create heat I can fell it coming off them. It may be more the voltage dropping circuity on the back, but there is heat, just not like I felt on the incandescent.


There is some truth to what your friend said about LED's and heat, however they have not burnt out in my fixtures yet due to this. I do not know how tight, tight needs to be to breath, there are none in or outside my camper that are air tight.

This is the first I heard of this, but learn something new all the time. How do they make sealed LED trailer lights work then? They are water sealed so nothing gets in. There must be a way to work around the heat issue. I just do not know what they do.

Hope this helps

John

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Thomascine

One more thing I forgot to add to my last post. I received the screws from Amazon today. They are AP Products screws. The website said they were steel sheet metal screws. When I received them, the container says Zinc. Good or bad to use on the TT? If my memory serves me correctly Zinc rusts, at least those I have used here at home?


Thanks,
Tommie

The zinc screws are steel. They are the same as used in all the Sunlines from the factory just some of them had a white top coat on them. And the same zinc ones in your 1987 camper. You have a time sample with your camper on what almost 30 years being on a camper will give you. You have a bunch that are rusted. Are there any good ones left?

So yes they will in time rust if exposed to the open environment to the weather. It might take 10 to 15 years to start the rust. If they are under a vinyl cover and protected from the weather, I know 13.5 years and many have no rust. If water got in there, then yes they rust. Like up in the gutter rail where water lives all the time, they will rust in time. Not if, but when.

Your decision will be based on how many years do you want to keep the camper? Good or bad, most all new campers are using zinc. I went to stainless to keep this camper as long as we ever want to and the cost was very cheap in bulk with advanced timing to get the screws.

What you have is not bad, it is just not great.

Just some thoughts to think through.

Hope this helps

John

[Sunline Fan]

Tommie, I think the ventilation issue applies more to large LEDs, not these little ones. A light bar, retrofit fog light bulb, or retrofit headlight bulb may need some sort of ventilation. I've heard of the latter two sometimes coming with built in fans to help keep them cool.

I put LED bulbs in my clearance lights last fall, I'm expecting them to be fine even though they are sealed.

[Thomascine]

Thanks for the info. I will probably replace the interior bulbs with LEDs when I get to that point. And since I am not really sure how long I will be keeping the camper, I will send back the Zinc screws and order the stainless steel screws. Better safe than sorry.

Thanks,
Tommie

[Thomascine]

Good afternoon,

Does anyone have any experience with Seal-Tite™ Corner Seal? Looking for some added protection.

[JohnB]

Hi Tommie,

I myself have never yet used the Seal Tite Corner kit yet. However... about 2 weeks ago anther good camper friend of mine asked about it as he was considering it for his camper and wanted to know if I heard about it.

So I looked it up. I did find 2 other U tubes on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpVkMsGwds4

In this video he is using caulking that comes with the Seal Tite Corner kit called AK Fix, All Bond. Seems this is a change. I tracked down the All Bond Universal they are using. Akfix - SEALANTS - MS Allbond Universal

It seems like good stuff and applies to the application. Again I cannot find how long it lasts. There are tech sheet links on that site. I looks like this comes out of Europe. At least the SDS are from there and the certification sheets.

Mark Polk has been around a while and is a well respected RV'er, you cannot go too wrong with his advice.

Not knowing of the Seal Tite Corner product, I adopted a different method using 3 lines of defense in the corner seals. Sunline was different than most and created a double sealed corner. They made the long side of the camper longer and folded the ends over.

A butyl sealing tape layer was added and the front or rear of the camper siding was put over the top. This created the first seal between the front and the side. You stated earlier yours was made like this 30 years ago. Some other RV manufactures do this practice too, but the one in Mark Polks video did not have it.

The second seal is one part I changed. Sunline used putty tape to seal the siding to the corner molding. This works but the issue being the putty tape dries out over time and come 10 years old, there are many cracks in it which can extend into the full depth of the corner. I changed the putty tape to a high grade of butyl sealing tape. I also learned there is higher quality butyl and lower grade butyl. I learned this the hard way after a roll of lower grade as I call it turned into rock hard after a year sealed in a zip lock bag. The higher quality butyl will stays flexible for a long time. I myself only have tests for 15 years but expect it to be much longer.

I also fill every corrugation with extra butyl tape. This is a topic Mark Polks talks about just he did not solve it like I do. He used the Seal Tite tape. By making little pieces to fill the corrugations, it insures there are no open spaces.


And I fill the molding on both sides with butyl


On the front top, it gets extra butyl on the angled sheet as there are no corrugations there


Then the cap molding goes on. This pic is not yet screwed down. We can also add heat from a heat gun pending ambient temperature


Once screwed down, the warm butyl does ozz out. It files all voids. You have to trim off the excess and smooth it out. But it is sealed.


Butyl will ozz out during the first summer under the high heat. We will wait 1 year except for the top 2 feet on the angled section we do that at the time the corner is put down. After waiting we trim any excess that came over the year, clean and apply Dicro non leveling caulk to the exposed butyl and touch the siding and the molding totally covering the butyl. This addresses the dirt sticking problems and it creates the 3rd level of sealing.

The Seal Tite Corner looks like an encouraging product. It does use some of the features I created with my method. They use caulk inside the molding and outside. I use the butyl on the molding where they use the caulk inside. The Seal Tite is the key for their system and the All Bond. The only unknown is how long the Seal Tite and All bond lasts before becoming brittle or cracking and how they will hold up. The Dicor I know the good and bad and I can replace it as needed. Dicor will not last forever, but the way I’m using it, I can see it and replace or touch up if needed as it is not under the molding. I could not find anything product life on the Seal Tite for longevity. Yet anyway. Their web site does not yet have all the tech detail up on it yet like some of the older products. 1.25" Seal-Titeâ„¢ Corner Seal Tape - Seal Design LLcSeal Design LLc

I do not see anything that says no, to using the Seal Tite Corner system. I wish we had someone with it for about 10 to 15 years with the camper living outside they can report how it is holding up. It for sure is easier and faster than the method I use. My method I'm sure will create problems in the manufacturing of new campers due to the steps it takes. The Seal Tite can be all put down at once and it done.

This is a good topic as corner joints are one of the bad actors on water intrusion of a camper.

Hope this helps

John

[Thomascine]

Thanks JohnB.

I have been following a lot of the posts and it seems leaks are just so common. One of my biggest fears is doing all of this work and not sealing properly. It is just about time to start putting everything back together.

Thanks,
Tommie

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[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Thomascine

I have been following a lot of the posts and it seems leaks are just so common. One of my biggest fears is doing all of this work and not sealing properly. It is just about time to start putting everything back together.

Hi Tommie,

When you get to the sealing stage, ask away for any clarifications. Putting the camper back together is often the easier task. Taking it apart, cleaning it up, building new wood structure to replace the rotted is the harder parts. Once you do a few joints with sealing tape and caulk, you will get the hang of it quick.

I have noticed that while there are common leaking problems, most come from the lack of knowledge of the owners on how to maintain the camper. Once it is explained to them or more so, once you have repaired one... then you are on top of the maintenance all the time.

Your doing great! Good job.

Thanks

John

[Thomascine]

Good afternoon,

Question about the staples. All of the staples that I have taken out were either badly rusted or broke off so I can't tell how long they are. The crown looks about 1/4 inch but I think I will go back with 1/2 inch or so. I just need to know how deep the staples need to go to hold the metal siding well. I am using an 18 gauge nailer/stapler. I will need to make a supply run soon.

Thanks,
Tommie

[JohnB]

Tommie,

If I recall correctly, on your camper your wall studs are 3/4" thick, correct?

If so, the I would say 5/8" for a depth would be ideal if your stapler can drive it but I do not know if you can get that size. The next is 1/2" deep which is still OK for 3/4 think or, 3/4" if you need to as technically there is 1/8" wall board inside so you have 7/8" before the staple come through.

If your wall stud is something other then 3/4" thick, they shoot for something in the 60% to 90% deep of the thickness range.

I would say 3/8" is a little too short which is at 50% but that may only be in 5/16" with 1/16 being used up by the siding thickness.

Also in case you may have forgot, I would suggest you use butyl caulk on the front siding joints before the final fit in place. No need on the side walls or back. I recall you saying yours had none but my son's 2006 Sunline did. It may be Sunline learned along the way since the early 80's that a driving rain when towing can beat up and over the front siding joint. Refer back to this reply with pics http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tml#post135640

Your doing great!!! putting siding on is a big step forward!!!

John

[Thomascine]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Tommie,

If I recall correctly, on your camper your wall studs are 3/4" thick, correct?

If so, the I would say 5/8" for a depth would be ideal if your stapler can drive it but I do not know if you can get that size. The next is 1/2" deep which is still OK for 3/4 think or, 3/4" if you need to as technically there is 1/8" wall board inside so you have 7/8" before the staple come through.

If your wall stud is something other then 3/4" thick, they shoot for something in the 60% to 90% deep of the thickness range.

I would say 3/8" is a little too short which is at 50% but that may only be in 5/16" with 1/16 being used up by the siding thickness.

Also in case you may have forgot, I would suggest you use butyl caulk on the front siding joints before the final fit in place. No need on the side walls or back. I recall you saying yours had none but my son's 2006 Sunline did. It may be Sunline learned along the way since the early 80's that a driving rain when towing can beat up and over the front siding joint. Refer back to this reply with pics http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tml#post135640

Your doing great!!! putting siding on is a big step forward!!!

John

Thanks JohnB. I am not there yet. I was trying to.plan ahead as I need to get more supplies. I ran into an issue with the passenger side wall. I have to fit in pieces to replace what was cut out. The thinnest board I can find is 5mm which is almost 3/16. I was trying to fit a piece in and the new is thicker than what is there and noticable.

I pulled backed the tarp and realized that I had not taken out the window on the driver side which is necessary to get at that corner. I had taken out most of the screws. And I will have to deal with more of those staples that takes me hours to get out.

Uuuggghhh!!!![emoji30]

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[Thomascine]

Oh and I did see your note from a while back on the butyl caulk. It is sitting in my Amazon cart for my next order.

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[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Thomascine

I have to fit in pieces to replace what was cut out. The thinnest board I can find is 5mm which is almost 3/16. I was trying to fit a piece in and the new is thicker than what is there and noticable.

I pulled backed the tarp and realized that I had not taken out the window on the driver side which is necessary to get at that corner. I had taken out most of the screws. And I will have to deal with more of those staples that takes me hours to get out.

Uuuggghhh!!!![emoji30]

Yes, these new mm sizes are not fun trying to blend into existing. Generally that are down sizing the size. I think this 5 mm is a new wave of the old 1/4". I ahve seen this a lot.

What type of material are you trying to match? 1/8" wall board of something?

Those staples...yes I know. The air stapler at the factory has gone nuts before.... In case this may help, I found a new use for a very old tool... that so far as worked the best at pulling out the staples, once I have them up a little. If you grab them with these, and pivot on the head, out they come right out. This is faster then vise grips for sure. Just do not squeeze too hard as you will cut through the staples. And sometimes you want to do that so you can use them as the cutters they are. This link will take you to my frame repair post with the pliers in action and a link to the Cresent site. http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tml#post136094

The pliers look like this.


While mine are the Cresent brand, lots of brands make them. Just search on "10" nipper pliers - cutters" an 8" ish pair can work too. Amazon has many brands, ChannelLock has a lot of them in different styles. I'm sure the Lowes/Home Depot has them too. Prices area sort of all over the map from cheap to , wow that is a lot.

Hope this hopes

John

[Thomascine]

Hi JohnB.

I have a pair of those that came in a set that I picked up back when I first started this. The staples (those that are not rusted) are so tight against the metal siding that I can't even get at them with those type of pliers either.

I think the current wall board is maybe 1/8. Not sure. I took a piece with me and the 5mm is the thinnest they had, at least that is what the guy at Home Depot said. I went onto Home Depot's website and they do sell 1/8 inch board but it is only 2ft x 4ft. I will pick up a piece tomorrow to see how it lines up with the existing.


Thanks,
Tommie

[Thomascine]

Good afternoon,

Not much more progress. It has been raining here for about 3 or 4 days. Did some busy work that could be done in the garage. Cleaned the old butyl tape from the corner trim, windows that have been removed and other pieces. A tedious job. Luckily, the butyl tape was old and not real sticky.


Was able to remove the stick on paper that was on the front window rock guard. I need to try to refurbish it as a new one is too expensive. I saw a thread where someone redid theirs. I will have to go back and take a look.


I was able to get out more of the small staples without breaking them off. I found that they are about 3/4". For the most part, I think I have the pieces I need to go back in. I just need some dry days when I am off work to take a wack at it. I also found that most of the wall paneling that they have at Home Depot and Lowes (including the pattern a bought) are not made of real wood. It is some kind of beadboard, which to me looks like hard paper that you can peel apart (that's the best I know how to describe it).

In doing more inspection, I found a small crack in the shower pan. Can this be repaired or will the shower pan need to be replaced?


That's all for now. Thanks for looking.

Tommie

[JohnB]

Hi Tommie,

Yes cleaning up the moldings is a job... It looks like you did a great job on them.

The shower basin, if it is fiberglass, then yes for sure it can be fixed. I had mine fixed here at the house. A guy came and did his magic resin blending and colorant and I cannot even tell where the crack was. But this was fiberglass.

If it is plastic, that I do not know. Where is the crack? Across the middle or just started in a corner and not spread much yet?

The paneling core.... yes, I have seen the cores are not wood on some veneer boards even. They are kind of a foam board something. I have not looked recently on the paneling.

Thanks

John

[Thomascine]

Good evening JohnB.

If I remember, the crack is near one of the corners. Tomorrow, I will try to take off the access panel to make sure there is no floor damage. I can feel flooring underneath the pan but the pan does flex a little. I have been looking at some YouTube videos where some people use expandable foam to help support the pan so that it does not flex as much and reduce cracking. I have also found that some people use FlexSeal to repair and seal it. It feels like fiberglass but how can I tell what it is made of?

Thanks,
Tommie

[JohnB]

The spray foam under the basin, actually I had to have this done in our new shower basin in the house. It is not normal foam as it stiffens up to have a high compression strength over softer foams. This will only help support the basin but it will reduce the stress for sure. Ours is a 4 x 5 foot shower basin that flexed badly, once the foam was put in it was night and day. And the guy fixed the crack in the one side. This was a fiberglass basin. If you decide to go this way, I'll see if I can find the brand of foam they used.

How to tell, I'm not the guru on this but I can tell from the bottom of the basin if you can see it. The top is all nice and smooth or has a texture to it. The bottom is very rough and jagged even as the resin layers of the fiberglass are not smoothed out.

Plastic which would be injection molded in this case, if it was plastic, the bottom would be more smooth and you would not see the resin layers.

I looked for something to show you and found this. https://feltmagnet.com/crafts/How-to...ass-like-a-Pro

There is a video there where he is making a gel coat top nice and smooth and the bottom is all resin and fibers. If you can get a pic of the bottom we may be able to figure it out.

Hope this helps

John

[bunjin]

My 1983 T-1550 has/had ABS pan. The original owner removed it and damaged it in the process. I have it and was going to rebuild it, however haven't as of today being that like the original owner I use the campground showers. The 24"x24" wet shower is a bit small.

[JohnB]

H'mm an ABS pan, Tommie if by chance yours is an ABS pan, they may be able to be fixed like the black and gray tanks are. See this thread from yesterday. http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...eak-17645.html

Now the question, how to determine what plastic it is?

bunjin, how did you know it was ABS?