Water Damage Assessment and Repair

[Sunline Fan]

Oh nice, it looks like a full RV cover enclosure. I'm sure it's a pain to remove it every time you want to work on it, but it will certainly pay off in the long run.

[JohnB]

Hi Tommie,

Your doing great!!! Your gaining, and the number of parts to out back on is getting smaller too.

Thanks for sharing.

John

[Thomascine]

My tarp apparently has sprung a leak. We had pouring rain late last week. I was applying caulking and came across an area on the new wall paneling that had gotten wet.


Tommie

[Thomascine]

Good evening,

It has been so humid here and rain in between. Progress has been slow. Had to do inside work as to not waste too much time waiting for good weather on my days off.

Will stick to mostly pictures with captions.

Rock guard painted. Not the best job but better than it was.


Interior painted








Stove spray painted.


I am hoping that it is safe to spray paint the rusted areas of the back of the frig?


Hoping to try putting in butyl tape to start sealing up the front. More rain coming this week so not sure how it will go. Plus, it has been unbearably hot under the tarp. Need a good mild day on a day off. Just can't seem to get one. Will have to wait and see. But... it is starting to look like a camper again.

Thanks for looking.


Tommie

[johnnybgood]

Looks great!

[JohnB]

Hi Tommie,

WOW!!!! your camper is shaping up very nice!

That front rebuild really looks good. Yes, your camper is starting to look like a nice camper once again.

On the fridge coil rust, the pipes do get hot in that area. I do not know what standard metal paint can handle. The pipes may get up to 150F and maybe more under certain circumstances when the fridge is not level. They do sell high temp paint in the auto stores for engines and header exhaust systems that can go over 1,000F.

I myself have never measured them, only found those 150F temps in this journal on page 11 and 12. http://rvrefrigeration.com/wp-conten...eport-rev4.pdf

A call to these folks may help answer what paint and rust prep before hand can be used. They are unique in their field who actually fix the cooling coils. They would know and by their website, they may help a person in need.

RV Absorption Refrigerator Reconditioning Training Center

If you contact them, let me know the outcome. Curious to know.

Hope this helps

John

[Thomascine]

Thanks JohnB!

I am trying to get there. I feel like I am close to finishing the front and most of the interior.

Originally Posted by JohnB

RV Absorption Refrigerator Reconditioning Training Center

I checked out this website but they do not offer email or phone support. They actually direct you to their videos. They have videos on YouTube so I left a message in the comments of one of their intro videos, which is what they encourage you to do. Hopefully, I will get a response.


Thanks,
Tommie

[Thomascine]

Good afternoon,

I was able to get the LP Detector hooked up but I ran into an issue. Not sure. The device gets power from the battery but when I connect to shore power the device is no longer powered on. Is this the way it is supposed to work?

Thanks,
Tommie


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[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Thomascine

Good afternoon,

The device gets power from the battery but when I connect to shore power the device is no longer powered on. Is this the way it is supposed to work?

Hi Tommie,

Well, no that is not the way it is supposed to work as normal. But it might be the way your older converter setup was until you flip some switch on it to allow the battery to charge.

Some of the older converters had a switch you would flip to allow power to charge the battery or to power up the camper. I have no idea if this is how yours works. And I'm assuming since this is all new to you, you do not know either. I tried a web search and cannot seem to find much technical info on your 3200 series B-W converter other then it is not made any more. By chance do you see a switch on your converter anywhere that says "Converter / Battery" sort of like this one, just this is a 6200 series one. There is a black rocker switch there that says this. B-W Manufacturing Power Converter Series 6400 Model 6403 electrical center RV PU | eBay


OR, was your battery connected when you plugged in the shore power to power up the converter? Some of the older converters needed to have a battery installed to create the 12 VDC correctly and they did not work without the battery connected. This would be an easy fix, put the battery in and turn the disconnect switch on.

Hope this helps

John

[Thomascine]

Thanks JohnB. The converter will not work unless a battery is installed. I remember when I first got the camper home, I plugged into shore power but the lights would not work. I messaged the PO and he said it had to have a battery installed. I bought one and then I was able to get the lights to work.

The way it works right now, I plug into shore power and turn on the 15 amp circuit breaker for the converter to come on. This charges the battery and I think powers the receptacles. Or at least I do not hear the converter come on until the 15 amp breaker is turned on. According to the little manual, this model has an auto relay that switches between the converter and battery for 12 volt DC power, no manual switch.


Thanks,
Tommie

[JohnB]

OK, h'mmm...

A few things to clarify. From this post of yours http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tml#post138845

You only have 2 circuit breakers for the 120 VAC side of the camper power. The 20 amp is solely for the roof AC unit. This is common.

The 15 amp breaker is for everything else that is 120 VAC. Meaning the wall receptacles, the electric element on the fridge if yours has one and to power the converter. You will not have any 120 VAC usable other then the roof AC unit unless this 15 amp breaker is on.

Does that sound right?

Now to the power converter and this statement you made.

According to the little manual, this model has an auto relay that switches between the converter and battery for 12 volt DC power, no manual switch.

OK that helps greatly. By any odd chance is there any kind of wiring schematic (diagram) in that little manual you have? If so, take a pic and post as I cannot find it on the web. Or anything that tells how the auto relay is working?

What we do not know at this point is how this older converter is supposed to work. I get the auto relay part, but what is a mystery is:

Since you only have a 30 amp 12 VDC converter supply to start with and there is an internal auto relay to switch "maybe" to battery charge only and then to converter mode, does:

Question 1: When the battery is very low on charge, say, below 50% state of charge, does the converter automatically disconnect the inside 12 volts and apply all 12 volt power to the battery?

Question 2: If the battery is fairly charged or above the say 50% threshold state of charge level, does it allow the battery to be connected to the inside 12 volt DC needs and provide a small reduced amount of 12 volt current, say 3 amps or so of the 30 amps to charge the battery and allow 27 amps to run the camper 12 volts?

We need to understand what the conditions are for how that auto relay is switching the battery on and off. OR if one or more of the 4 fuse circuits is unhooked by the relay when the converter is proving larger power to the battery. It may be doing some kind of load shedding of the 4 fuses and the LP alarm ended up on one of the fuses that is shed when it is doing a lot of battery charging.

Is the battery fully charged up now when you are trying it or is it still drained down low when I saw your USB volt meter working a while ago? Look at your volt display. 100% charge is 12.7 volts. 12.1 volts is 50% charged and anything lower then 50% is something under 12.1 volts. Read this only when there is nothing being used in the camper and not plugged into shore power. The battery needs to be at rest and at least 8 hrs after being charged.

If the converter cuts off all inside 12 volts when it needs to push all the charging current to the battery, you for sure need to know when that happens. I can see that being a problem when your not sure how it works.

When the LP detector cuts out, does any of the 3 other fuse circuit still work? It might be the relay cuts off certain fuses while doing a larger battery charge. If so we may be able to make this more usable by changing what is on what fuse at the converter panel.

The newer converters do not work like this. They are smart enough to allow battery charging and inside 12 volt needs to work all the time. They are also higher capacity units allowing this to happen. Some how your converter is creating a power management circuit with that auto relay.

Hope this helps.

John

Edited: 10:06am to add more info around a possible load shedding concept with the auto relay

[Thomascine]

Good morning,

Here is pics of the guide along with notes made by one of the PO. Unfortunately, there are no diagrams or pictures at all.

Thanks
Tommie


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[Thomascine]

Originally Posted by JohnB

OK, h'mmm...

A few things to clarify. From this post of yours http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tml#post138845

You only have 2 circuit breakers for the 120 VAC side of the camper power. The 20 amp is solely for the roof AC unit. This is common.

The 15 amp breaker is for everything else that is 120 VAC. Meaning the wall receptacles, the electric element on the fridge if yours has one and to power the converter. You will not have any 120 VAC usable other then the roof AC unit unless this 15 amp breaker is on.

Does that sound right?
This sounds correct.

Originally Posted by JohnB

OK that helps greatly. By any odd chance is there any kind of wiring schematic (diagram) in that little manual you have? If so, take a pic and post as I cannot find it on the web. Or anything that tells how the auto relay is working?
Unfortunately, the guide does not contain any diagrams.

Originally Posted by JohnB

Is the battery fully charged up now when you are trying it or is it still drained down low when I saw your USB volt meter working a while ago? Look at your volt display. 100% charge is 12.7 volts. 12.1 volts is 50% charged and anything lower then 50% is something under 12.1 volts. Read this only when there is nothing being used in the camper and not plugged into shore power. The battery needs to be at rest and at least 8 hrs after being charged.
I charged the battery when you mentioned the low voltmeter reading a while ago. The battery had not been charged in the last couple of weeks so I had it charging yesterday. I unplugged it last night. I will have to go out and check the volt meter reading.

I will have to check on the rest as I really do not know. Everything seems to be working as it should.

Thanks,
Tommie

[Thomascine]

I haven't dug into the rest but I did see something unusual or at least to me. The first 2 pictures arw on battery the second 2 pictures are when plugged into shore power.

I am getting a normal reading on battery but an unusual reading when connected to shore power. I don't know if this is normal. Other than that everything seems to work as it should.

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[JohnB]

H'mm,

Your latest info helps tell a story. I think I may know what is going on. This old converter has very choppy 12 volt DC. They did not add the filtration to the system after they created the 12 VDC. In the old days, this was common just at the time your camper was made, new clean circuits where being made they just may have not made it into your power converter.

This page tells a lot


Basically it says when you plug in the shore power or turn on the 15 amp circuit breaker, the relay inside automatically energizes and switches the inside power to the 4 fuse circuit to the power converter and will unhook the battery from those 4 fused circuits.

I "think", not sure, a separate 3 amp battery charge feed then goes to the battery.

This means, what was on battery power on 12 volts in the camper is now on converter power. And you get this choppy 12 VDC where with the converter off, you get true smooth 12 VDC direct from the battery.

They also have the paragraph about, "Equipment limited to pure 12 VDC operation" And this helps confirm the rectified 12 VDC is choppy with very little filtration on it. They may not even have a pull up capacitor after the rectifier. I know those lost 2 sentences may be a bit tech'y but just go with choppy DC and that is the simple explanation. If one of our other tech'y guys reads this they will know what I think is going on.

Your volt display does not seem to like choppy 12 VDC and odds are high the new Atwood LP detector does not either.

I think what I am going to show you is the only way you are going to get out of this short of buying a new converter or creating a DC filter system to tame down the old converter power.

This pic shows how to do this. Zoom in and read on the cover what the wording says should go on terminal B. Fused Battery Positive circuit 5. This gives you clean power direct from the battery.



Basically from your pic here


Power down the camper and turn the battery disconnect off. Remove the black wire that is on your fused circuit no 1 and put that wire on fused circuit number 5. Be careful that no part of that black wire will touch the large White wire lug (- 12 VDC neg) terminal below it. A few loose wire strands will be a bad thing in this case.

From your other post this is what you said was on circuit 1 before that will now be on circuit 5

1. Front lights, utility light, USB Socket charger, bathroom light, receptacles.

I think this will solve your volt display and the LP detector issue as they are running off the battery directly and being filtered. What I do not know is what the battery charger is doing when the power converter is powered up. We need to see the volts on your new meter after the wiring change to see that, yes the volts are up in the 13.25 area or 13.65 area when the converter is on meaning the charger is doing something. OR the battery volts are still at 12.7 meaning no charge is taking place. Will need to sort that out once we know.

I suspect there will be this 3 amp charge going on if the converter is still working. Did you say you where going to convert the light bulbs to LED's? If so this is good as it will lower the power draw on the direct fused circuit #5. Those old incandescent bulbs draw a lot of power. About 1.3 amps each where many of the new LEDs draw 0.2 amps.

Hope this helps

John

[JohnB]

I'm also assuming that when you wired in the LP detector, you added it to circuit 1 that also has your USB charger/volt meter setup. If you hooked it up elsewhere, let us know as that is another issue.

[Thomascine]

Originally Posted by JohnB

I'm also assuming that when you wired in the LP detector, you added it to circuit 1 that also has your USB charger/volt meter setup. If you hooked it up elsewhere, let us know as that is another issue.

Thanks JohnB. Yes, all of the light bulbs have been swapped out with LED bulbs. I still can't believe the difference it made. I added the LP detector to the same circuit as the USB charger. It was the easiest to get to. I will try what you suggested above and report back.


Thanks,
Tommie

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[Thomascine]

Woohoo! That seem to fix the issue.

I get the same reading on the voltmeter and the green light on the detector stays on with both battery and shore power. Another problem solved.

Both the USB charger and the LP detector has its own inline fuse. The charger currently has a 10 amp fuse. I am going to lower that to either 7.5 or 5. The LP detector currently has a 7.5 but 1 amp is recommended with 15 being the max. I am going to go with the minimum. I am having trouble finding a 1 amp fuse in town. I may have to order from Amazon.

I still don't know how it reacts when the battery is low. I will say that back when you mentioned the battery seemed low everything was still working. No power was interrupted to anything. Time will tell. I am trying to make sure I have all of any needed wiring done. Amy is supposed to be coming to help me deal with the front window so that this baby can be sealed up.

Thank you so much! [emoji3] [emoji106]

Tommie

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[Thomascine]

Also, I did decide to add a light on the front that will be on the same circuit. The wiring for it has been connected and is capped off.

Thanks,
Tommie

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[Thomascine]

Good afternoon,

Not sure if anyone is following this thread. Just in case.

Since the LP Detector is installed under the dinette seat which is the cargo area, I made a box to protect the back of the device to keep it from being bumped by anything stored in there. I used scrap material left over from the front wall repair.


Ran the wire from the connection coming in from the front (tied into the line coming in for the USB charger) along the inside of the hamper, along side some existing wiring, down through an existing opening at the bottom and then into the back of the box.



Once everything was connected and working properly, tucked the inline fuse into the back of the box and secured the rest of the wiring, again to protect it from anything moving around in the cargo area.


And that's it. I think...

I don't think I will be adding anything else unless anyone has any suggestions. I already have a battery operated smoke/carbon dioxide detector.

Thanks for looking.

Tommie