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Old 10-17-2017, 04:27 PM   #341
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Man, you're good!!!

The window does not fit. The top needs to be planed. But the bottom is also too low. You can see it here from the inside. I will have to fill it in with a 1/2 inch thick board. Somehow everything got shifted down about 1/2 inch.


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Old 10-17-2017, 08:32 PM   #342
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Man, you're good!!!

The window does not fit. The top needs to be planed. But the bottom is also too low. You can see it here from the inside. I will have to fill it in with a 1/2 inch thick board. Somehow everything got shifted down about 1/2 inch.
You did a lot of rebulding off of totaled rotted frame. I can see how this all came about. It is hard to measure to something that is rotted away.

Maybe using a saber saw to cut the excess wood out out of the top window opening to start with and then plane or sand to the final dimension need. It might be easier.

The bottom filler strip, your new bench saw will rip that new shim real quick. Then glue and fasten in place. That tool sure comes in handy on this kind of project.

Thanks for the good words. 40 years of machine building and troubleshooting humbles one to look close at the details. What's wrong with this picture is a question that comes up a lot.... How in the world did that happen??? The more you do, the more you learn.

You're doing great. Keep up the good work!!

Thanks

John
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Old 10-26-2017, 07:09 PM   #343
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Good evening all.

Well, the weather forced my hand. I went out to open up the front so that a friend could trim the opening so that the window would fit. It had rained the day before. Not sure how but the tarp sprung a leak somewhere and quite a bit of water got into the camper. So much so that I had to pull back some of the vinyl flooring to allow the floor to dry after using towels to soak up the water. Now I had to move fast. Right or wrong, the window is in.


It doesn't look too bad on the outside. The inside is a different story but I will deal with that later.

Question - How long is adequate to allow the butyl tape to ooze before applying dicor? I have trimmed the excess butyl tape on all of the newly sealed doors, windows and fixtures. Just wasn't sure how long I needed to wait.

Thanks for reading.

Tommie
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Old 10-26-2017, 09:29 PM   #344
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Question - How long is adequate to allow the butyl tape to ooze before applying dicor? I have trimmed the excess butyl tape on all of the newly sealed doors, windows and fixtures. Just wasn't sure how long I needed to wait.
Hi Tommie,

Good to see the window in. Yeh!

The butyl ozz, I have seen it done both ways, almost immediate and long waiting periods.

When Sunline or other manufactures are building the campers and use butyl on the roof moldings, they apply Dicor within the hour or less as the camper goes down the production line.

I have done almost, both. I have trimmed out the window molding, ended up waiting maybe 1 or 2 days just due to other work and then Dicor'ed the edges.

I have also waited a year for the ozz, re-trimed it and then applied the Dicor.

Both work. With it getting colder out now, the ozz if any will be slow. Large ozz'ing really generally only happens mid summer under the higher heat. Even the putty tapes do this too. Any Sunline that has putty tape, ozz'es over the years. Yes, years worth and you can see it puff out around the frames.

I would say you will be OK doing this as you need to, what ever length of time that is. I have not had a negative effect doing it in a short time period. If you do it in a very short time frame, I would say make sure you trim the excess close and tight to the molding flange. Then apply the Dicor and make sure you touch both the siding and the molding aluminum to cover the butyl with the dicor. This also applies to waiting a year. Leaving a fair amount of exposed butyl means the dicor cannot bond close and tight to the siding and molding with a dab of butyl under it and it may ozz out of any dicor skipped areas if there are any.

Did you see this post on one method of applying the dicor? It is a good start until you master your own method. http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tml#post137746

Hope this helps

John
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:32 PM   #345
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POR-15 Question

Good evening,

I was in the process of applying the POR-15 rust treatment system to the frame. Snow came early this year so I had to stop. I read on their website as well as a few threads on the forum that states POR-15 is UV sensitive and has to be top coated. So, I realize that the A-frame and steps will need to be top coated. Does this also apply to the frame underneath the trailer? Some UV exposure but not direct.


Thanks,
Tommie
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Old 12-11-2017, 06:22 AM   #346
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Good evening,

I was in the process of applying the POR-15 rust treatment system to the frame. Snow came early this year so I had to stop. I read on their website as well as a few threads on the forum that states POR-15 is UV sensitive and has to be top coated. So, I realize that the A-frame and steps will need to be top coated. Does this also apply to the frame underneath the trailer? Some UV exposure but not direct.


Thanks,
Tommie
Generally I've heard no, there's no need to second coat the frame rails. If I used the stuff, I would top coat it all. If you don't do the whole thing, I would at least do the visible part in the wheel wells, because those will be exposed like the bumper and tongue.
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:04 AM   #347
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I have not used the POR 15 so I do not have first hand experience on it. However if they are warning about a UV rating that sends up a red flag. UV degradation is for sure, real.

Since preparing and painting a frame is such royal pain, I myself would top coat it with something at least. Having to do it all over again is even more painful. You already spent the good money to get the POR 15 on there, it will last better if the rails underneath are covered with something, even spray paint.

Ideally you can find someone who has not done the rails topcoating, they live in the same area or even more sunny, and 10 plus years have gone by and they tell you it held up OR no, it broke up where the UV hit it.

My frame took 3 coats last year to do the process I had. It's was a real project and painful. Would not really want to repeat that in the next few years.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:12 PM   #348
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Thanks for the responses.

The POR-15 project is really time-consuming and a lot of work. I was really sore after doing what I did manage to get done. Not a lot of room to move around under there. It looks like the cold is sticking around so I may not get anymore done until spring. We'll see. I definitely do not want to do this again anytime soon so I will apply a top coat.

JohnB - If I remember correctly you had your Sunny on jack stands when you were working on yours. How safe is it when crawling around underneath? I am usually the only one here when working outside. Also, what is the best placement for the jack stands? My Sunny is still sitting on grass right now. So the stands would be on grass. Hopefully, in the spring I can add some type of paving for the tires to rest on instead of grass. My to do list is still growing.

Thanks again.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:39 PM   #349
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Tommie, does the can indicate a temperature range to apply it? I'm wondering if you might be too cold now to apply it.

I completely understand your concern with crawling under it, especially when working by yourself. Unlike a car that you probably have to jack up to get under, the trailer you really don't. I suppose you could put some sort of support under the tongue if you didn't trust the tongue jack, but it would take a lot of bad luck to have a tongue jack fail the exact moment you're under it.

Putting the trailer on jack stands would allow you to remove the wheels and paint behind there. When I painted my frame (I just used black Rustoleum), I did it at two different times- most of the frame once, painting somewhat behind the tires, and then the second time was when I had the tires off, I finished up what I couldn't access with the tires on.
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Old 12-13-2017, 08:51 PM   #350
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Good evening.

Sunline Fan - Yes, it is too cold now to use the POR-15. I think the minimum temperature is 45 degrees. It had been in the upper 50's when I was able to do the passenger side and the rear bumper. I started on the driver side but that side was harder because of the wiring and plumbing. I could barely move round on that side so I only got about half of it done. I have the other half and A-frame to go. I was hoping that having the camper on jack stands would raise it a little to get to that side a little better. The cold weather came early this year and so did the snow so I will have to wait til spring to finish.

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Old 12-13-2017, 10:27 PM   #351
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JohnB - If I remember correctly you had your Sunny on jack stands when you were working on yours. How safe is it when crawling around underneath? I am usually the only one here when working outside. Also, what is the best placement for the jack stands? My Sunny is still sitting on grass right now. So the stands would be on grass. Hopefully, in the spring I can add some type of paving for the tires to rest on instead of grass.
Hi Tommie,

You have some good questions. Yes, I often have a camper up off the ground on jack stands.

Here is my prior T2499 up on stands when I was painting it's frame.
http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...pics-7982.html

And here is my big T310SR up on jack stands doing suspension upgrades.


And with the wheels off


The stands are positioned right near the front and rear spring hangers. 2 per side of the camper. And you will also notice 2 bottle jacks under the axles at the axle seat area on both sides of the camper. Those bottle jacks are not there to lift the camper or to support the entire weight of the camper, they are there to prevent what we call "shackle flop". When the end of the axle has no wheel on it, the suspension is able to move, meaning the axle itself can shift up or down. There are different levels of severity as to how far the axle can fall down or raise up and it all depends on the loads on the axle at that time.

Sometimes when I do not have enough bottle jacks, I use wood cribbing under the axle seats to prevent them from flopping down. Like here when I was treating the frame last year. The wood is shimmed right up under the axle seats so there is no room to fall down and it is good sized wood.


When all 4 wheels are off, that then is the easiest for the axles to move as they are just hanging there by their own weight. If the axle gets bumped, the equalizer link in the center of the 2 axles can pivot, the shackle links will then pivot and the entire axle will flop down several inches. Both may go down or one down and one up. It makes a big bang, and as long no body parts are under it, it gives a real good scare but it does not break the axle. If a body part is under the axle, it will hurt really bad with the weight of the axle free falling on it.

In this pic, the shackles are up like normal.


In this pic, the shackles are flopped down.


The axle itself has moved about 3 to 4" down in that flopping action. If the movement is controlled, this is not a big deal and an OK thing to move. If it falls under free fall, that is the issue.

Next the stands themselves. I have 2 complete sets of 4 stands. 4) 6 ton stands and 4) 12 ton stands. H'mm, why so heavy rated? 4, 6 ton stands can hold up 24,000#? A T2499 only weighs 7,000# and a T310SR only weighs 10,000#? In the case of jack stands, they are first normally rated as a pair. So 2, 6 tons stands can hold up 6 tons. Not that each can hold up 6 tons. The next and most important is the base of the stand( the footprint) and the rigidness of the stand. I myself will only use stands of this size to hold up a camper due to the stability of the larger stand, not for the weight rating.

When the stand is extended up, it is easier to tip over and the larger base makes it so much more stable. I bought my big ones more for working on my 1 ton truck. It is very high up off the ground and rather than using the 6 tons stands at their reach limit when holding the truck frame, I use the larger 12 ton stands and the base is much larger. I also use the larger stands sometimes on the camper or if I have a buddy with a large 5th wheel we are working on.

The next is, you see I always use these on a hard surface (concrete) when raising the entire camper off the ground. If I had to use 1 stand (not all 4) under a camper or a truck in a sod lawn situation, I would need enough 2 x 12's or something solid to create a stable base to put the stand on. Like dealing with a bad brake or something.

I took the time to explain this so you can see what goes into supporting a camper off the ground and have high confidence there are no issues going under it. Out on your lawn, this could be very difficult to reproduce using jack stands.

However I have a suggestion that may help work with what you are up too and cost a lot less. To do all the frame painting except behind the wheels, you can raise the camper by towing it up on 2 x 8's or larger width. (2 x 10's etc)

This post has some good pics of mine (short ones) and PTHutch's leveling boards (long ones) we use under the tires at the CG. This is a very safe way to raise the camper and get more room under it. If the lawn is real soft the bottom board may sink down, so use one more. http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...evel-8947.html

I can back up or drive up on 2 stacked, 2 x 8's without too much issue. If I have to go 3, 2 x 8's high, that jump is a lot. I have 4 wheel drive on the truck, I put it in low range 4 x 4 (granny gear) and it crawls right up on them. If not the boards slip and move out of place trying to get up on 3. Every now and then I have to use 3 boards. Having the ends of the 2 x 8's or 2 x 10's chamfered on a 45 degree angle sure helps this too.

If I need to use more then 3, I use railroad ties and make a staged ramp out of the 2 x 8's to get up on the 6" to 8" tall rail block. I have had to do this at my mom's place in upstate NY and in the Adirondacks on some sites.

To do the wheel well area behind the tires, maybe wait until you can get the camper near some kind of more solid ground or gravel and just deal with that area. Jack up the one side of the camper like changing tire. Take 1 wheel off, paint, put wheel back on, then take the other wheel off, paint, put back on etc.

It is for sure tight down there getting under the camper but going up 2 or 3 boards high is a big help. You are going to need leveling boards when you go camping , so you can reuse them for the painting.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 12-16-2017, 09:36 PM   #352
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Thanks for all of the info JohnB. I will try the 2x8s method when the time comes.


Tommie
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:22 AM   #353
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It is in the 60s here today so I thought I would try to get a little exterior work done. No such luck. It was raining this morning and it is quite wet out. I was going to try to install the window rock guard but ran into another issue when installing the brackets. When I tighten the screws, the aluminum siding buckles inward. I think I know the issue, just not sure how to fix it.

The original frame was held together with 1 inch staples. The piece of wood the bracket was screwed into was able to move as the screws were tightened. The new frame is put together with kreg screws, no give. So that means now the aluminum siding has to give. I backed the screws out a little to relieve the stress on the siding but wasn't sure if that would be okay or if I needed to try to fix it. At this point I am not sure if I can fix it without taking stuff apart. SMH




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Old 01-12-2018, 11:37 AM   #354
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snip...

I was going to try to install the window rock guard but ran into another issue when installing the brackets. When I tighten the screws, the aluminum siding buckles inward. I think I know the issue, just not sure how to fix it.

The original frame was held together with 1 inch staples. The piece of wood the bracket was screwed into was able to move as the screws were tightened. The new frame is put together with kreg screws, no give. So that means now the aluminum siding has to give. I backed the screws out a little to relieve the stress on the siding but wasn't sure if that would be okay or if I needed to try to fix it. At this point I am not sure if I can fix it without taking stuff apart. SMH


Hi Tommie,

We hit 60 yesterday, the day before I think low 50's. Up here, we where at 0 and below since before Christmas. Everything on the camper ended up being about 0. Then we get this fast warm up... the first day was WOW, great! Took the front wall apart on the bottom. Then yesterday, the 2nd day of high temps, everything is sweating badly. The entire camper on the outside is sweating. My tractor tires, the truck frame etc. It happens when we get these extremes. Today we are back down to 35 right now with rain, later supposed drop below freezing to 19 and 3 to 6" of snow.... Today I have the camper sweat wet being better but not gone. The top half is dryer, the bottom half still wet. Yuk...

To your issue, correct me where I go wrong on what the problem is. The rock guard aluminum metal bracket in your pic, is that the offending bracket?

And the siding puckering, I'm assuming the siding right near that bracket is doing a little puckering when you tighten those 2 screws, is that right?

If so, don't start taking anything apart on the siding. If I understand the problem right, the issue is the corrugated siding and a flat bracket. One screw is on a valley (bottom) of the siding real close to the wood behind it. The 2nd screw is on a peak (top) and has air behind it with the corrugation. And that peak will pucker flat when you tightened that top screw. The top screw will cause most of the issue, the bottom screw some of the issue as the bracket is most likely squeezing the siding in the peak are some.

If I m understanding what you are seeing correctly, then that is going to happen. It is not really a wood behind the siding issue. While the older wood may have flexed a little, that is not the problem.

So now what? First I'll ask, how bad is the puckered siding? The siding does pucker in certain places all over the camper. Sometimes high heat or high cold make the issues better or worse as the siding expands or contracts.

But in those cases, there is no leak, just a cosmetic look that is not the greatest sometimes. How bad does it look when the screws are tight? The screws being tight is setting the butyl seal which is a need. If the look is not that bad, you can leave it.

Let me know if I have the problem of what you are seeing understood right. If the pucker is really bad, try to get a pic of it if it will show up.

I'll be back later. I will see if I have any I can take a pic of the siding puckers to compare. The awning mounts is one place and even door stop mounts, anywhere where a rigid bracket crosses a valley and peak in the corrugated siding.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:59 PM   #355
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Hi JohnB.

It was in 60s here the last couple of days. Our power went out this past Saturday all day with no heat. I had bought a portable gas generator a couple of days before but had not prepped the generator. Will be taking care of that this weekend. That was the second outage in a week.

When I originally put in the screws I stopped as soon as I saw the puckering and backed out the screws. I just hand tightened them and tried to take pics but you can’t see much puckering in them. It may not be too bad, noticeable but not bad.




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Old 01-12-2018, 05:34 PM   #356
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Hi Tommie,

This is really hard to see in pics. I looked at mine today and the pucker is very subtle but it is there. I could not really capture it in pics. The water heater you can see some very faint parts of it from pics I took today. The siding has lots of bumps and humps in the decal area and the siding gets crushed when the heater flange is tightened. The valleys need to be filled with butyl or it will leak in this case. You may be able to see the condensation sweat wet dripping off it.




Our warm temps have now changed to 20 F and 22 north wind with snow.... We have gone back to arctic temps and it will not be above freezing at all until next Friday...

In your pics, the flash makes it so bright I cannot really see the puckering. But now I can see a really good pick of the bracket. The bracket is rigid enough it will flatten the siding and a pucker will show up. How big, normally it is not very big and one really does not notice it.

Is yours large enough to be objectionable? The only real way out of this is to shim the peak area of the siding on the inside. Slide a 1/8" or what ever thickness needed shim the size of the top peak area and staple or glue in place so when the bracket clamps the siding will bottom out almost immediately on the shim. Sunline never did this on any that I have seen. For you now, that is a lot of work to just add that shim and I'm not seeing the need.

If by eye this looks really bad, try again to get a better pic if at all possible without flash. Maybe something will fly in on how to reduce the ripple and still have tight screws.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:02 PM   #357
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Thanks JohnB. I can't really see any puckering in your pics. It looks straight to me. In mine, there is a noticeable bow. I am thinking that I am going to leave it as is. None of the other repairs are perfect either. It's noticeable but not enough for me to do any extra work. I still have other stuff that needs to be done so I will just move on. If I can get some better pics, I will post them. It turns cold here again tomorrow so exterior work back on hold for now.

Thanks,
Tommie
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Old 01-15-2018, 01:25 PM   #358
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Rock guard bracket

Passenger side



Driver side - barely noticeable at all on this side.



Once the corner trim is back on, a good cleaning and paint job, may not be able to tell at all.


Thanks,
Tommie
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Old 01-15-2018, 03:17 PM   #359
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Doesn’t look that bad to me Tommy.

I was rooting for you to camp last fall. Hopefully you’ll be out in the not too distant future.

Which gets me to thinking.....you said you’d like to camp at Lake Anna, maybe you should reserve a site soon, as I know it’s a popular campground. Not sure if you’ve ridden through there to note the better sites, but the better sites fill up fast. Not sure what the refund policy is, but typically it costs very little as long as it’s canceled within 30 days of arrival.

We made reservations yesterday for Cape Henlopen State Park in mid June and none of the handful of “primo” sites were available.

Also, just so you know. Your drivers side is called the street side and your passenger side is called the curb side. Purist frown on stuff like that. Like unseasoned boaters calling the bow and stern the front and back.[emoji846]

Good luck!
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Old 01-15-2018, 04:02 PM   #360
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Location: Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybgood View Post
Also, just so you know. Your drivers side is called the street side and your passenger side is called the curb side. Purist frown on stuff like that. Like unseasoned boaters calling the bow and stern the front and back.
LOL...duly noted. I will try to learn the terminology. Just remember, I am very green! The closest I have been to camping is sleeping outside when growing up on the farm.

Thanks on the siding issue. I freaked out when it started bowing when I was installing the screws. I immediately stopped and backed out the screws a bit. They are hand tightened now and not as bad as I thought.

Yes, I had picked Lake Anna as one of our first sites. Fort AP Hill will probably be our very first. It is quite economical for military and family. It is not too far, we can make note of any issues and can pack up and go home if the issues are great. Lake Anna will be not too far behind, I hope. I have friends at the lake. We will be lucky if we are able to get into Lake Anna this year. They book up really fast.

Thanks,
Tommie
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