Water Damage Assessment and Repair

[JohnB]

Hi Tommie,

On the staples, this may be a long shot but might help.

If you cannot get a screwdriver under the staple head, see if you can cut the staple in the center of the crown area. A pair of diagonal cutting pliers can cut the staple. They need to be large enough your hand pressure can squeeze and cut the staple and the ends sharp all the way to the end to bite into the staple.

This is a pair of the cutters I'm referring too if you do not know them by that name. Many brands and sizes of these exist.
https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-84-10...+cutting+plier

Once you cut the staple, fold up the ends and then get a good bite on leg with a pair of vise grips and pull. If the staple will not come out, it will at least release and allow the siding to pull through and then you can deal with the staple once the siding is off.

I have done parts of this process when a staple breaks while trying to take it out. One leg breaks off and I grab onto it with a good pair of vise grips that the ends will hold the staple. This type where the ends of the pliers are very strong. They make many styles, this one when not worn will bite well
https://www.amazon.com/VISE-GRIP-Ori...se+grip+pliers

And sometimes even mine, rip through the siding. I just put a fresh new staple in near it.

The moldings can get bent and still be able to be straightened again to be reused. Ideally they are not kinked, the kink would get real complex to straighten but a bowed bend can be pretty easy to straighten out. I found I also have to flatten all the screw locations before reusing as the screws swedge the metal into the wood creating an uneven surface. This is how I straightened the metal and flattened it.

Found a scrape piece of metal clamped to table to work like an anvil to support the bottom of the molding.


Then found another scrape piece of metal that fit inside the molding where the vinyl strip goes. Used vise grips to hold the metal while I hit it with a dead blow hammer.


You may not have the exact same materials to work with, it is the principal I was trying to get across of how to pound the metal flat again at the screw areas. To the curve bend, the moldings are sort of a curve when they come off. There is no good way to not have some. You can gently bend them in small amounts and keep working it until they become straight again. Try not to do it all at once, that can accidentally kink it.

The roof thing, don't know for sure. What is on the inside of the roof at that location if you can see it? A wire/cable? I agree with Steve, it might be some type of radio antenna. It may not be a Sunline one, a prior owner may have created it. And it may be banned and not do anything other then filling the hole in the roof. If so, remove it and fix the area to be water tight.

The window, yes ideal is 2 people. One outside making sure it does not fall out while the other is inside taking the screws out. I have done several by myself. All of them have been stuck to the siding by the putty tape and I had to heat and pry to even get them to release. But mine are not as old as yours and your putty tape may be more broken down as it is older and not stick like mine did.

If you are going to do it yourself, maybe use a 2 x 4 or 2 x 6 to prop against the frame on the outside so it will not fall out. Or leave 1 or 2 screws in the top and then go out and check if it is stuck to the camper before taking the last 2 screws out. If it is not stuck, then you know you have to figure out how to hold it in place as you remove the last 2 top area screws. It is not the weight of the window needing 2 people, it is just to make sure it does not fall out.

[Sunline Fan]

Tommie, glad you finally got in to see how bad it is. Hopefully all the trim came off without a problem.

Originally Posted by Steve Collins

That looks like a connector for an antenna; either AM/FM radio or television. Most TT's are pre-wired for both.

Agreed, it looks like some sort of radio antenna or cable connection. But radios weren't an option in a Sunline until the early '90s, and the antennas started out on the side. TV antennas started I think in the late '80s (as factory options), but I don't think either were available on small single axle trailers. So it has to be aftermarket.

[Thomascine]

Not sure if this is good or bad


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[JohnB]

Oh boy... need a few more pics of other side views etc.

That "looks" a corner of the camper folded back. And if so, that is not a good thing.

It is hard to tell from just the one view.

[Thomascine]

Hello JohnB.

My apologies. I did not take many pictures today. Hopefully, this will give you an idea of where this is.


The staples were really tiny and not even the cutters could get to them without prying on them first. The least little tug and the siding popped. I even tried a pick tool.


Thanks,
Tommie

[JohnB]

Oh... Now I see. Pheewww.... I thought this was something very different...

That is the entire front of the camper sheet of siding. No bent corner. Now that I see the other picture which has the original decal that was under the corner, now I see.

OK, those staple slots/screw holes can be easily taken care of when you butyl tape the corner putting it back together.

Sunline did a double corner sealing method. Or at least on the newer ones they did and you can do this on yours.

1. The side of the camper siding is folded over and stapled to the wood studding.

2. Butyl sealing tape is put over the siding folded edges on the front or back of the camper. This is seal 1.

3. The the front or back siding goes on and creates a seal with the butyl of item 2

4. Then the corner molding has butyl inside it and it caps off and goes over everything as a second seal.

This post will show item 1 to 3
http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tml#post130979

This post will show item 4.
http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tml#post131986

Bottom line, all those little slits and holes get sealed up in the corner seam.

That said, if a hole ends up outside the corner, then you need to deal with that differently. Depending how big the hole will dictate which repair method used.

Hope this helps

John

[Thomascine]

Thanks JohnB. I was a bit worried there for a minute. What you described in 1 to 4 is how the camper was sealed. I guess my next question is if I need to take apart the top and reapply butyl tape if the wood up there does NOT need to be replaced. That butyl tape is a bear to get apart. Amy came by to help me get the front window out and that butyl tape was a real pain in the you know what! Not to mention the screws along the bottom and sides of the window were badly rusted. I will say that the corner trim screws towards the top were a lot easier to get out and the staples in that area still look new. Not sure if that means anything.

Thank you for your time. Have a good evening.

Thanks,
Tommie

[Thomascine]

Now that it has been taken apart , I am at a loss as to how to put it back together again. I guess I will start with the bottom grid first. I am totally lost now.[emoji30]


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[JohnB]

Hi Tommie,

First question,

Do

" I need to take apart the top and reapply butyl tape if the wood up there does NOT need to be replaced.? That butyl tape is a bear to get apart"

Let me help first with the butyl removal as somewhere on the camper, more will need to come off at one time or another. First, yes removing a window, a corner, cargo hole etc can be "bear" and a few other critters... to get off sometimes.

This is how I came to make it somewhat more manageable in getting off. When we took my son's camper apart it was in the winter and most times the barn was at 25 to 35F... That made the butyl stuck even better...

The heat gun was our friend. Without it, no way would we have been able to take apart all of that camper and not break something in the process.

For corners or other trim, we first heated the end we where going to start with for about 2 to 3 feet worth. Back and forth many times warming the entire corner. Then started to lift the corner with a steady tug. It moved very little, but moved. Between steady and firm but not over heavy pressure, kept warming the molding until the butyl would release. If you pull way to hard there is a possibility of kinking the molding, a slight bow is common but that can be fixed after. That process gets about 1 1/2 feet long loose. Then used the heat up into the butyl directly a few times in the area that was released and keep warming the outside again in 2 to 3 feet lengths. Then the molding would release and you keep on going repeating the process. Windows are the same and cargo doors etc.

If it was mid summer and 95 out all day long, then everything is 95 or hotter. I have done windows in the summer with almost no heat gun but used it a little some times. But in the winter and spring and only 45 or 50, the heat gun is a need. I only have an old Black & Decker 1,500 watt heat gun but it it worth it's weight in gold dealing with getting butly off. A hair dryer might help but I do not know if it is concentrated as much as a heat gun. Even a Harbor Freight heat gun will help. They have several and with a 20% off coupon, even less Search results for: 'heat gun'

Now to do you need to take the rest of the corners off even if the wood is good? That will come down to a judgement call, do I or don't I is the question...

A few things to help you decide.

1. Are you sure you know the source of the leak?
a. Did the leak start up at the roof line and the water run down the corner and stay trapped in the lower section?
b. Since the corner was rotted out, how did the water get up that high in the corner, where did it enter from? Are there any water marks/stains on the good wood in the corners above the rot that show water flowed down that route? If yes then there is a leak up high. Some how that corner rotted out. It might have been from water getting into the corner due to old putty tape but did you see any signs that happened?

Point I'm making, is there any rot or water entry up high where the siding or molding is not taken off yet?

2. You have a 1987 camper, any idea if the butyl in the corner is original? How does it look? Is it nice and still very sticky and flexible? Are there any small cracks in it? Even if there is no water entry above, corner molding is a known source of leaks when the putty tape on the corner molding gets brittle and has small cracks in it. The butyl between the siding corner may be the only thing left holding the water out. On my camper, Sunline used butyl in the folded lap seal and putty tape on the corner molding. When I repaired it, I used butyl in both locations.

You have the molding half off now, how long would it take to get the rest off and put new fresh butyl in? (using the heat gun method will help) How long do you want to keep the camper? 1 year, 5 years? If 2 years from now the upper area has a leak start due to old caulk, after the pain you have gone through, you may be second guessing yourself, why didn't I change it when I had it open? I know these repairs can be pain full, but doing the repair and a leak come back soon is worse.

I myself would replace all the butyl in the corner, but that is only me and should not be what you do. It is your choice as you have to deal with it. If the old sealants are good, then it will last an amount of time. How long, really do not know not being able to see it up close and even then it is a guesstimate. Do what you feel is right and we will help you accomplish that.

Hope this helps. I know this is difficult decision.

John

[JohnB]

Next topic, the rebuild...



Yes, as you thought, start at the bottom and start making new pieces to match the old and start to build it up. and keep on going. You are doing really good!

And your learning a lot in the process. You did a real good job on the floor, this is not that much different other then it has a bunch of angles to it.... Use an old member if one is left to as a template for the angle.

If you cannot get any angles off the old members, use the siding cut line on the angle. You can even make a cardboard template and hold it up to the camper and check if the angle matches. There are many tools to measure and reproduce angles but the template trick does work.

Let us know if you run into a snag, we can help.

Keep up the good work, your gaining, piece by piece.

John

[Thomascine]

Thanks JohnB.

It is something to think about. My brain is all over the place. I did download a Harbor Freight coupon last night for a heat gun just in case. I used a hair dryer on the corner trim and the window. So, I guess I will be getting a heat gun tomorrow.

I am now working on my second attempt at the bottom grid. Made a miscalculation on the first attempt and it was not wide enough. I am a bit closer this time, I hope.


As far as the angles. It looks like the front is in two grids that are connected together with screws.


I am going to take it one part at a time and work my way up, or at least that is the current plan as plans do change.

As for the leaks, I think I have found two suspect areas so far. I am still looking.


Thanks,
Tommie

[Thomascine]

Good afternoon,

I apologize if this is a stupid question but this is my first project using the Kreg tool. Will it weaken the wood if I connect all of these cross pieces lined up straight across using pocket holes?20170325_153809.jpg

Thanks,
Tommie

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[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Thomascine

Will it weaken the wood if I connect all of these cross pieces lined up straight across using pocket holes?

Tommie, no stupid questions, a good one actually.

Your frame looks good. I myself do not see a problem, in fact using the pocket hole screw will the stronger on that very thin wall structure then attempting to screw it together straight in the ends.

Just asking, is that 3/4" thick boards? The bigger campers use 2 x 2's

Keep up the good work

John

[Thomascine]

Good afternoon JohnB.

It is 3/4" thick wood which is what was there originally. This is why I was asking just to make sure the pocket holes going straight across would not cause an issue. If you see anything that needs adjustment, please let me know.

Thanks,
Tommie

[JohnB]

I thought it looked like 3/4", and if that is what they had, no problem repeating it. Thanks for confirming. I do not see anything not right, your doing good. Keep up the good work!

[sep]

Originally Posted by Thomascine

Good afternoon,

I apologize if this is a stupid question but this is my first project using the Kreg tool. Will it weaken the wood if I connect all of these cross pieces lined up straight across using pocket holes?Attachment 4049

Thanks,
Tommie

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What is the actual thickness of the original wood? It looks to be a lot thicker than what you are replacing it with. If I was to guess, the old is almost an 1" thick and the new is 3/4". I like the grid idea and putting it back together as one piece but if it is too thin, everything might not fit back together right such as the window or window trim. As my dad always told me, "measure twice..cut once!" It's looking good. Keep going.

Steve

[Thomascine]

Thanks SEP,

The actual width of the existing wood is .75 x 1.25. The replacement is .75 x 1.5.


Believe me, I measured several times because I could not believe it was not thicker than that. I just hope my other measurements were correct this time. This is my second attempt at the bottom grid.

Thanks,
Tommie

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[Thomascine]

Good afternoon,

I found another bad spot in the hamper on the driver side. This was an area that I could not get to before but now that the front is off I could get to it and it was soft and believe it or not still a tad bit damp. The only saving grace is that there does not appear to be any cross boards in this part of the wall. My apologies about the bad lighting. I am working under the tarp.




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[johnnybgood]

Sorry to hear that.
I guess you weren't all that surprised based on the original floor rot area you dealt with.

I'm impressed with the progress you've been making. Looks like a labor of love.

[sep]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Tommie, no stupid questions, a good one actually.

Your frame looks good. I myself do not see a problem, in fact using the pocket hole screw will the stronger on that very thin wall structure then attempting to screw it together straight in the ends.

Just asking, is that 3/4" thick boards? The bigger campers use 2 x 2's

Keep up the good work

John

Lol! I must have been half asleep this morning when I asked my question about the wood thickness. I missed this whole page!! Duh!