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Old 05-29-2021, 08:59 AM   #1
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Towing T2499

Hi,
Im looking to buy a T2499. I have a 1999 suburban with tow package. Build sheet says it has 7300 lb towing and 3.42 rear end. New 8 ply tires. Is the truck adequate for this.
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Old 05-29-2021, 02:28 PM   #2
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Hi,

What year is your Suburban? We need to know as the rear end gear ratio you mentioned points to a newer one with the max tongue weight with a weight distribution hitch of 1,000 lb. which can be limiting the way you load the T2499

Also what year T2499 are you looking at?

How people and total weight will be in the front seats, middle seat and the rear 3rd seat? Trying to get a handle on the must have cargo will be in the Suburban to make sure when the camper is hooked up that axle weights will be ok on the truck.

Look at your drivers side door sticker and see if they list a max cargo weight for that specific vehicle. Ideally post a picture of the door sticker as it has the axle ratings needed.

Glad to help but need more info it your specific Suburban will be a good match or where a weak area is.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 05-29-2021, 04:52 PM   #3
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1999 Suburban, 7300 lb GVW. Trailer package. Will add build sheet as pics.

Trailer is 2005.

I understand it will be close on weight. Willing to tow without water and pack light. Plan to load behind trailer wheels and ahead of TW wheels. Will need to reply again with rest of build sheet.
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Old 05-29-2021, 04:54 PM   #4
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Second set of pics.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 00063ECC-C107-4C81-A0D3-1BA9EA395C5A.jpg (131.4 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg 3D3538DB-456F-4A64-8AD0-632BF25BCEC2.jpg (112.6 KB, 7 views)
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Old 05-29-2021, 04:57 PM   #5
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Thanks for the help in this I’m getting it from 5 hrs away so am jumping in the deep end in this Soto speak. He is including a weight distribution hitch but I don’t know what’ its rating is.
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Old 06-01-2021, 05:59 PM   #6
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Any advice would be appreciated
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:41 PM   #7
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Hi jsm,

We have been out camping for the holiday weekend and I was tied up.

I normally dig deep into these to help show you where the weak areas are. Running short on time, this much I can tell you which may help. If you want the full detail review at a later time, I can do that just it will takes some time.

I use to tow the 2004 T2499 with a 2002 Tahoe. That drive train had the 5.3 V8 with the newer fuel injection engine and the 3.73 rear axle. Pulling was not really my issue as much as rear axle capacity.

Before that, I had 1997 Tahoe with the 5.7 and the 3.73 rear axle, just I never used it for travel trailer towing. 7,000# cargo trailer yes, just not as wide or high. That engine (the Chevy 350CI) had the get up and go, but it had the 3.73 to go with it.

In your case, your 3.43 rear axle will make the truck work more, you will feel it. You have been towing your prior Sunline I'm assuming OK? I forget which Sunline you have now. What year/model is it? I may be able to compare that size to the 2005 T2499 you are looking at as far as pulling performance.

The 2005 T2499 will start with about a 800# tongue weight before you put cargo in the camper. The loaded tongue weight can be a show stopper on your 1500 Suburban if you do not watch the loaded tongue weight. That floor plan has a lot of storage forward of the front axle and as such, the loaded tongue weight can rise quickly. Many folks with the T2499 have 1,000 # or 1,200 # tongue weights. You truck would have to be close to empty in the rear cargo area to handle a 1,000# tongue weight before the rear axle capacity is reached. For sure, you have to use a weight distributing hitch.

If your receiver has the 1,000# WD rating, then at least that part is up to the task, just the rear axle is right on top of it too.

That camper loaded, fits a 3/4 ton most any kind of truck. A 2500 Suburban, 3/4 ton Excursion, 3/4 ton pickup or 3/4 ton van. For it to fit into a 1500 truck, you have to be right on top of the weights. The truck needs to be low on cargo if it is a SUV, or even a Pickup if it has low rear axle capacity. The the camper can have cargo, what is over the trailer axles in the kitchen and entertainment center just adds GVW and not much tongue weight. But you have watch what is loaded in the front pass through cargo area, under the front bed and the front wall cabinets. That front storage makes the tongue weight go up fast. And hauling fresh water will be out for your Suburban. A full fresh tank and add 150# TW all by itself as it if far forward of the TT front axle.

We had one club member keep the T2499 tongue weight down in the 850# range, he was usual and most of his weight was in the truck bed. When you tow the camper home empty, that will be about where you are at. Approx. 800# tongue weight and a little under 5,000# GVW on the camper.

Long term and long hauling, you most likely will find the T2499 too much for your current Suburban. In our case, when we bought our 2004 T2499 new towing with the Tahoe, we loved the camper so much that after I realized the tongue weight issues I had with the Tahoe, we traded it for a 2003 2500 Suburban with the 6.0 L and the 4.10 rear axle and all the towing performance issues went away as did the loaded tongue weight issue. I still could not carry fresh water, even with the 2500 Burb, as I was at 1,200# loaded tongue weight and a 6,100# GVW on the camper.

The T2499 starts with close to or over 15% dry tongue weight and goes up from there. It is a stable towing camper with that high tongue weight, just the truck has to be able to handle it. There are many other Sunlines that fit better, just the T2499 has that high TW issue.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:43 PM   #8
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This post may help too. It shows how to help sort out what weight added to the T2499 floor plan affects loaded camper tongue weight.

https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...499-10143.html
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Old 06-02-2021, 04:31 AM   #9
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Thanks for the advice. I’m a bit nervous now. I put a deposit on the trailer and am going to get it this weekend. It’s over 5 hours away. If it’s too much for the truck I will be in a bit if a pickle. I don’t mind upgrading to a 3/4 ton, but need to get the trailer home first. The truck and trailer will be empty. I’ll cross my fingers and hope the old girl holds out.
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Old 06-02-2021, 05:18 AM   #10
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Getting the camper home empty is different then loading the camper up and going camping. Everything is lighter with the camper. The empty camper tongue weight is heavy, ~ 800# with full LP gas in the tanks and battery, the GVW of the camper will be around 5,000# to just under. The camper is still 8 feet wide and just over 10 ft tall to the roof AC unit and the wind drag will be there, but it will tow better with your current Suburban empty then when loaded.

A few things to help make your 5 hours trip better that you can prep for.

Bring tools to adjust the WD hitch if needed. Having the hitch adjusted to help the back end of the truck goes a long ways in a better tow. Having the camper way nose high or way nose low makes a real long tow. Plus not having the WD set correct on the Burb. If the front end is too light, the truck will be bobbing around up and down if not enough weight is returned to the front end. Just do not go over load the front end, check the unloaded front end fender height unhitched and when done setting the WD, it should be a little higher (less weight) by approx. 1/8 to 1/4" higher as the GM torsion bar front end does not like extra weight.

Trailer tire air pressure, make sure the tires are aired up to max side wall cold pressure. If the prior owner kept the tires the same size and load range as Sunline installed,ST205/75R155 load range C, then the tire side wall would say 50psi max. If they installed D load range tires it would say 65 psi.


Truck tire pressure, make sure all 4 truck tires are aired up cold to the door sticker pressures. That gives you a good starting place that all axles are up to the task for the tires to hold the load. It also helps with side wall stiffness flexing.

Take it slow until you know how the rig reacts. As a max speed, 55 to 60mph is enough and less better as the trailer tires heat up not knowing the age of them. That camper should tow good with it's high percentage of tongue weight per GVW, so the camper will be stable as long as the truck can hold it's own. I remember when we brought our new 04, T2499 home empty with our 02 Tahoe, the towing was OK when the camper was empty other then gas mileage dropped like a rock, but that it what all 8 ft wide campers do to a truck regardless of size. It was when I loaded the camper, and started digging into axle weights is when the concerns came.

Safe travels and good luck. Let us know how it comes out.

John
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Old 06-02-2021, 05:47 AM   #11
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Something else to look for on the camper, not saying this is a deal breaker but to be aware, and if there is damage, to let the owner know and maybe help offset the price.

The 2005 Sunlines went through a main frame rail design upgrade. The Main frame rails went from 5" channel iron to 6" I beam. The main trailer tongue A frame went from 5" channel down to 4" channel iron. The T2499 having it's high percentage of loaded tongue weight was one of the first of the newer campers to have this issue. The 4" channel iron A frame would twist due to high forces of the WD hitch, and that twisting overtime could damage (buckle) the frame header. That flexing let go long enough, created cracks and bending in the main frame header and even the battery tray angles could be bent.

This issue also showed up on other 4" A frames camper models (other then the T2499) in the new and old frame design, just it too a lot longer to see the problem. Again, this is not a show stopper but to be aware of to get it reinforced before an issues arises. Sunline did eventually correct the design in mid to later 2006, and I happen to have a 2007 T2499 project camper with that final factory fix in it. Once they sorted out the issues, the problem has not been reported. Or on other camper models where owners have reinforced the weak areas.

See here on my 2004 T2475 project camper, this camper has the same 4' channel A frame that was was buckled at the header. The prior owner never realized it when selling it to me, and I knew enough about the issue I could address it.

To see the issue, get down on the ground and look down the length of the bottom of the main frame header. And at the joints the 4" channel makes through the header. If the header has a buckle in the center, then the issue has started. If the welds are cracked as the 4" channel passes through the header, then the issue has started. A weld shop can correct/reinforce this without that much issue, again it is realizing you have the problem. Some have reported the reinforcement was in the $350 range for a not in too bad a shape up to a little over $1,000 for a major repair.

This link will take you to pics of how to see the problem. Scroll down until the frame pics show up.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...tml#post144341

And this link, will show how I addressed it.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...tml#post144448

Here is a little more detail on the correction, this is on my 2004 T1950 project camper. The problem has not started yet, but I wanted to make sure it would not start, so I reinforced the header/A frame from the get go.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...tml#post155068

Again, this is not a show stopper to you getting a really nice camper, my point is to be aware of this and help yourself have a long and fun time in the Sunline.

John

PS there is a older really long post on this here. Some of the pics no longer work, but it was where it all started to be reported here on the forum. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...99-a-9326.html
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Old 06-02-2021, 07:53 AM   #12
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If your tire terminology is correct, your 8 ply tires are load range D. I think JohnB missed that you have LRD tires. I assume these are an upgrade over OEM which likely only had 38 psi on the door sticker since you have a 1500 Sub. If your Sub has OEM LRD tires then the door sticker psi will match your front and rear axle capacities.

Assuming you upgraded to LRD, I also assume you are familiar with load inflation tables. I have in the past and am currently towing with LRD tires. I keep the pressures between 55 and 60 psi for towing and 45 or even less solo. I think you'll find from load inflation tables that you need at least 50 psi to match the load capacity of the OEM tires and an extra 10% is a good safety factor. I used to tow with a 3/4 ton and it needed 60 psi in the LRE tires on the front axle or the handling was sloppy even though the factory sticker said 50 psi. And I never ran more than 70 psi in the rear tires even though the factory sticker said 80 because I never carried the max load. The nice thing about LT tires is that they are happy at a wide range of pressures. As long as you keep them at least at your load capacity +10% you can play with pressures above that up to max to get the best combination of ride/handling.

Although the ride is a little harsher solo, I avoid messing with psi during towing season and drop the psi for a better ride only when we're done for the year.

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Old 06-02-2021, 01:32 PM   #13
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John, Henry,
Thank you both for the excellent advice. I feel a bit better about getting the 2499 home. For tires, I have new 8 ply LT tires on the suburban. I don’t know what’s on the TT. I’ll take your advice and have a nice balanced slow trip home. I’ll post some pics of my new TT once safely home.

I have a T1661 now. I’ve enjoyed it with my family for 20 years now. Great little camper. I’m getting older and want something bigger and more comfy. Looking forward to the 2499. Now I just need to get a bigger truck.

Anyone interested in a T 1661 in upstate NY?

Thanks all
Jim M
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Old 06-06-2021, 05:13 PM   #14
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I got my T-2499 home. My old burb rose to
the occasion and made the 6+ hour trip admirably, despite the 95 degree temperature. I agree that loaded may have proved to be a problem. I’m shopping for a 3/4 ton now.

The 2004 T-2499 is near showroom condition. It was stored in a garage and barely used. It was well worth the trip to get it.

Thanks for the excellent advice.

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Old 06-06-2021, 07:29 PM   #15
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Hi Jim,

Glad you made it home all safe and sound and thanks for reporting back.

You mentioned this,
Quote:
The 2004 T-2499 is near showroom condition.
Is your new Sunny a 2004 or a 2005? Earlier it seemed you were looking at a 2005.

Have fun with the new camper!

John
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Old 06-07-2021, 09:47 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by jsm5394 View Post
Im shopping for a 3/4 ton now.
This is a terrible time to shop for any truck, new or used. I've read online that the midwest truck market is softer than elsewhere. The risk of travelling is that a distant truck may be sold before you get there. The numbers on your silver door sticker are much better than the ones on our '01 GM1500. I'd weigh the combo to see if you can keep it in spec and then limp along for a year until the market levels out again.

I don't know your family situation and price range, but assume 2 people and used since you're currently driving a 99. I'm most familiar with GM and Ford. In the early 2000's GM made 1500, 1500HD, 2500 and 2500HD. No 1500 from this era is really suitable for the 2499. We towed ours over the scale with an 01 1500 on the shakedown and it was at or overloaded on all the numbers except the front axle. We immediately replaced it with an 07 1500HD, the last year they were available. Both 1500HD and 2500 are virtually identical light 3/4 tons with the same 6,0L engine, 4L80e trans and at least 3.73 axle that are on the 2500HD. If you were to stumble across one of these rare birds they are very capable of towing any TT, although somewhat underpowered compared to the newer engines. Our 1500HD had a payload over 2700lb..

Ford still makes an HD F150 and the older ones are close to a pre Super Duty F250. Up to '14, this F150 can be easily identified by its 7 lug wheels. It would also be a good tow vehicle. Like the 1500HD, this truck is relatively rare, but worth buying, so don't be put off by its "1/2 ton" name. Of course in 3/4 ton you could buy any truck and be confident of its capabilities. I weighed the 1500HD combo once and it was so far under on all the numbers we could just load the bed and haul water with abandon.

Depending on your price range, a 6sp trans is a huge upgrade over a 4sp and we found GM's 4L80e to be difficult to keep locked up and always running hot especially on long grades in 2nd or 3rd. The truck you're looking at should have a trans temp gauge as did our 1500HD.

Then, if you can buy newer, '15+ 1/2 tons are a big upgrade over older ones. Our '15 GM1500 with the NHT max tow option was a far superior tow vehicle to the '07 1500HD and its thermostat controlled trans temp always stayed the same. Although its capacity numbers were lower, for 2 seniors it was well under on all numbers even with the heavier Arctic Fox 22G. Do not buy a GM 1/2 ton without the NHT option. It includes all kinds of upgrades to rear axle, rad and payload that enables it to haul a TT like the 2499. Unfortunately this is also a relatively rare option.

We now tow with a '19 F150 with the 53C Max Tow option. This is also a significant upgrade to the regular F150, but has a little less beef in the axle and less payload compared to GM's NHT. However for 2 seniors with a 2499, or our current 22G, the numbers are within spec and the 3.5 Ecoboost and 10sp trans are an addictive combination. I look forward to every trip... and the end of Covid. We've already had 2 camping weeks cancelled in May and June due to restrictions locally.

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Old 06-08-2021, 06:03 AM   #17
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It’s a 2004. I read the 2005 lightened the frame and had issues.
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Old 06-08-2021, 06:05 AM   #18
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Henry,
Thanks again for the excellent advice. I am having difficulty finding a tow vehicle. Your advice will help tighten my search.
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Old 06-08-2021, 06:09 AM   #19
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So just to confirm, a 2002 Chevy Avalanche 1/2 ton 5.3 Vortec 8,200 towing is nit a good choice?
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Old 06-08-2021, 08:25 AM   #20
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So just to confirm, a 2002 Chevy Avalanche 1/2 ton 5.3 Vortec 8,200 towing is nit a good choice?
That Avalanche may actually be worse than your '99 Suburban. In terms of history the 1500 & 2500 Avalanche are basically Suburbans with a different body. The 2500 Avalanche or Suburban from the early 2000's would be excellent tow vehicles. They are also light 3/4 ton like my 1500HD so their numbers are far superior to any 1/2 ton or 1/2 ton based SUV.

You can do a lot of research and elimination by typing the truck into a Google search e.g. "2002 Chev Avalanche specifications". This typically brings up Edmunds and other pages with more archived info than any salesperson will know. It tells you that the Avalanche 1500 has F&RGAWR of 3400&4000 lb. and GVWR of 7000 lb. with a payload less than 1400 lb. Always check the yellow payload sticker on the door frame before buying any truck. This payload is specific for that truck as shipped (or at least it has been in recent years). Anything added to the truck including driver, floor mats, flashlight, etc. deducts from this factory sticker and that is the Achilles heal of most 1/2 tons. Brochure payloads always reference the most favorable entry level truck with no options so always use the yellow sticker to get the best number as built. Odds are the Avalanche you referenced could have a sticker payload well under 1400 lb. especially if it's also the high end model.

While there are lots of 1/2 ton towable RVs out there, the problem with the 2499 specifically is that you can count on it having a 1000 lb. TW. You'd have to load carefully and not carry water to get 800-900 lb. This means the 2499 is right on the edge of maxing out the weight rating on most 1/2 tons' receivers never mind taking them over their payload and rear axle capacity. In the end it comes down to your comfort level. I've always weighed each of my combinations at least once because I want to know what's going on, but is being 100 lb. over a rating much worse than being just 100 lb. under?

https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/av...eatures-specs/

https://www.thecarconnection.com/spe...avalanche_2002
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