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Old 07-08-2020, 08:37 PM   #1
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From optimism to reality

I thought this might be a good place to post pics and/or videos of the progress and possible setbacks we have in restoring our Sunline. This is not going to be a six month thing, I'm thinking more like a couple of years? Once I got it home and did a quick walk though, it didn't take me long to realize this was going to be a complete gut job as you will see in the video. I didn't realize the video was ten minutes long, I apologize for that.

Jay

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Old 07-09-2020, 06:25 PM   #2
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Hi Jay,

Congrats on your Sunny, and your new "project"!!

I looked at your video, that is quite the chicken coop!

The camper, yes you have a project. And it can be fun, and it will take an amount of time. All you need is some basic wood working skills, the tools and a lot of want to do this, and you can fix all of the camper.

A few things,

Yes, cover the 2 roof tank vents (the black pipes coming out of the roof) as they can leak in water around the pipe and into the camper. For now, any kind of patch job will work to seal over the whole thing. I'm assuming you are not using the camper until after you restore it. Later when you get to fixing the roof, you can take all the old bad caulk off and fix it permanent. Odds may exist you have the roof off fixing rotted rafters. Do not get up on the roof, it will not hold your weight without precautions in place and a rater may be rotted out. Work from the side.

By the looks of the ceiling and the floor, you have had some water damage going on for a good while. Years worth. The rest of the camper may also have wall and floor damage that you have not yet found. Ideally before you start into the restore effort, you do a good inspection to see how good or bad the rot situation is. We can help on how to do the inspection as that will then set the stage for the best way to start the take it apart and fix it work.

To help inspect the camper on the non obvious rot areas, there is a tool I'll mention that can really help. It is a moisture meter. See this post on the meter. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...per-17613.html

With the meter you can scan the inside of the camper and see into the walls, ceiling and floor for wetness and how much. Once you know what is wet and what is not, then you can formulate a "how to "approach the rebuild.

For the amount of water damage that can be seen in your video, odds are high the front ceiling and the rafters above it have some heavy rot. These campers are not built like a house, they are built from the outside in. The cabinets are screwed to the wall board from the outside in and from the ceiling down.

The entry door can be rebuilt, no need to replace. Many have rebuilt those doors.

Once you access the how bad, bad is, I suspect you will be into a wall, floor and ceiling structural wood rebuild. In these cases it is better to take the camper apart from the outside and work your way in. This means taking the siding off and maybe the roof. The siding and windows/door etc. are not that hard to get off once you know how they are put together. With the siding off, it gives clear access to the water damage and you can replace all rotted wood and make good splices into any saved wood.

Here are a few rebuilds including total roof and wall correction. Some are completed campers, others are still ongoing. This will help show you might have sooner or later on your camper when you go to start fixing it. The 79 and 80s' campers below have metal roofs like yours. The 2004 through 2007 campers below have the rubber roof which is different then yours, but they are still helpful in how to fix the camper. All these posts help add something to a camper restoration as we all do them a little different.

A 79 Sunline restoration in process by Sunline Fan https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...-mc-18647.html

A 87 camper restoration by YellowJacket https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...ion-19403.html

Another 87 camper restoration by Thomascine https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...air-17458.html

This is an ongoing truck camper rebuild by Kxracver704 on his 70's vintage camper. He is doing a total rebuild. While it is a truck camper, the process for a travel trailer is similar and can be helpful.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...ild-19616.html

A 2006 T264SR complete post on rubber roof replacement, back and front wall repair on BenB's camper. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...avy-16834.html

This is one of my project campers, a 2004 T2475 that is a work in progress. This has the front wall repair in a step by step description. This is one of my project campers. In time this will be completed. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...2-a-18706.html

And another one of my project campers. A 2004 T1950 that is a work in progress until the Covid 19 situation stopped work this spring. This is a total camper restoration. It shows how the camper comes apart and is in the process of being rebuilt. Lots of pic https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...avy-17684.html

Here are 2 other project campers of mine in the take it apart and let it dry out stage. Again more to help show how they are built and come apart.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...avy-19318.html

https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...ics-19473.html

These may question what you are getting into... but these campers are all fixable. It will take time, but it is doable if you have common wood tools and the want to fix it. Feel free to ask away with questions.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 07-12-2020, 08:53 PM   #3
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The camper will not be used until all the repairs are done. For the time being I have the roof covered with a tarp. Once I start removing the siding, etc I will buy a tarp big enough to cover the entire trailer and then some. I wish I had a building to do the repairs inside but I don't. Everything will be done where it sits. I'm trying to be optimistic and hoping the metal roof can be saved and reused? It's going to be slow trying to remove all the roof cement, caulking, etc without damaging the roof any farther.

One of the things the wife wanted to do was to add a rooftop AC unit? Even if I reinforce the roof structure during the repair process I'm not sure it will hold an AC unit? Even if it held a unit I'm not sure it's doable then because of having to add new wire, etc and I have no idea if the camper could handle the extra electrical load?

I was under the impression the siding would come off from the top down. However after reading the links you provided, I now know differently. In a perfect world I would be able to remove the siding on one wall, repair it and then move onto another wall. I saw where someone had taken the camper down to nothing. If I have any wood that is good enough to be saved I'm going to be amazed. The previous owner told me it had been leaking at least two years. I'm thinking quite a bit longer?

At the moment I'm cleaning out my garage so I will have a place to store everything after I take it apart and document every piece. I am rereading the links you provided, especially on how to start the process of removing the siding. It will be a long and tedious job to restore it but it will make me appreciate it even more when I finally get done. I'm already off to a good start just by having this site to learn from!

Jay
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:03 PM   #4
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Hi Jay,

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSXFAN View Post
One of the things the wife wanted to do was to add a rooftop AC unit? Even if I reinforce the roof structure during the repair process I'm not sure it will hold an AC unit? Even if it held a unit I'm not sure it's doable then because of having to add new wire, etc and I have no idea if the camper could handle the extra electrical load?
Once you get to the roof and ceiling repair, you and we can see what rafter setup exists. Odds are favorable you can add a non-ducted roof AC unit. And you can run new wire when the siding is off if it is not already pre-wired. Some had wire already pulled stored in the wall/ceiling to add at a later date.

When you get to it, post some pics of the breaker box/fuse box setup that is in the camper now. You may need to upgrade some of that area. The AC unit will need a 20 amp separate 120 VAC breaker. And we need to check the shore line cord is setup for 30 amp 120 VAC. It may already be that way.

Quote:
I was under the impression the siding would come off from the top down. However after reading the links you provided, I now know differently. In a perfect world I would be able to remove the siding on one wall, repair it and then move onto another wall. I saw where someone had taken the camper down to nothing. If I have any wood that is good enough to be saved I'm going to be amazed. The previous owner told me it had been leaking at least two years. I'm thinking quite a bit longer?
Yes, the siding comes off starting at the bottom. And you start at a front or rear wall. The way the siding is installed, they inside the long sides of the camper first. Then they fold the edges of the siding that hangs over the corner wall studs about 1". Then the end wall sheets install, front and rear sheets installed over those folded over edges.

If you need to remove one of left or right side walls, (odds are high both will come off) the front and rear will/may need to come off first. I say "may" as on the door side, the door way breaks up the long siding runs and sometimes you luck out and the wall damage is before the door allowing one small section of siding to stay on. You will know when you start into it. The first bottom piece of siding sets the stage sort of. If it is rotted behind it, you just keep taking off siding on the way up until the rot stops.

You may also end up taking the roof off. With the ceiling looking as bad as it is, odds are favorable there is rafter damage and depending on how bad the walls top plate is rotted, that may forced you to lift the roof or at least one side it it to repair the bad wood.

Quote:
At the moment I'm cleaning out my garage so I will have a place to store everything after I take it apart and document every piece. I am rereading the links you provided, especially on how to start the process of removing the siding. It will be a long and tedious job to restore it but it will make me appreciate it even more when I finally get done. I'm already off to a good start just by having this site to learn from!

Jay
That is good to have room to store all the parts, windows, doors etc. Also take "lots" of pictures before you start, during and at the end of the tear down. Make sure you have pics of everything, even the stuff you think you don't need. There will be a time in the rebuild when you will refer back to them to see how it was originally setup.

The big tarp, yes, I had to do use a big tarp to repair my rotted slide floor on the T310SR long ago before the new pole barn came along. I even had some light snow in early spring to deal with. Others here in the club have done some major rebuild work using only a large tarp to cover the camper. It works, it does not cost that much, but it does take some time putting it on and off. Figure out a way to tie/bungee it on so it can go on and off fairly easy.

The 2 years the prior owner knew of leaks, it was leaking long before the 2 years. He may have only noticed it 2 years before as it takes a while(years in some cases) for the damage to show up inside the camper where you can see it in the living space. It rots in the walls, ceiling and floor undetected and eventually rots to the inside and you see it.

This will be a fun project and when you are all done, you can sit around the campfire and stare at your hard work with pride. And I'm sure there will be many campfire stories to tell on the restoration process too.

John
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Old 07-19-2020, 08:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
Once you get to the roof and ceiling repair, you and we can see what rafter setup exists. Odds are favorable you can add a non-ducted roof AC unit. And you can run new wire when the siding is off if it is not already pre-wired. Some had wire already pulled stored in the wall/ceiling to add at a later date.
A non ducted AC unit sounds perfect for what I need. I will know a lot more once I get into it and see what I have to do to reinforce it and wire it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
When you get to it, post some pics of the breaker box/fuse box setup that is in the camper now. You may need to upgrade some of that area. The AC unit will need a 20 amp separate 120 VAC breaker. And we need to check the shore line cord is setup for 30 amp 120 VAC. It may already be that way.
There should be a pic of the breaker box at the bottom of this post. I'm ashamed to say I know very little about electrical work and will probably have to hire all the electrical work out? I'm assuming the shore line is the one that pulls out of the camper? I will get a pic of that as soon as I can. While on the subject of electrical work, when I need to pull new wire or replace existing wire, will regular residential wire work or do I need a special kind of wire for a camper?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
Yes, the siding comes off starting at the bottom. And you start at a front or rear wall. The way the siding is installed, they inside the long sides of the camper first. Then they fold the edges of the siding that hangs over the corner wall studs about 1". Then the end wall sheets install, front and rear sheets installed over those folded over edges.
The way you explained the siding makes perfect sense. I can tell the worst part will be removing all the staples in it. I am curious about the laps in the siding. What is the easiest way to get under the lap and does it have tape? The second pic shows what I am talking about. I feel a lot better about the process now.

I am taking a lot of pics and video. I can see my biggest problem is going to be time to work on it. I might get a day here then go a week without touching it. That's where the pics are going to play a major role.

Jay
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File Type: jpg IMG_7053a Breaker Box.jpg (100.7 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg DSC_0036 (1)a Left Side Front Siding.jpg (323.4 KB, 42 views)
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Old 07-21-2020, 08:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSXFAN View Post
There should be a pic of the breaker box at the bottom of this post. I'm ashamed to say I know very little about electrical work and will probably have to hire all the electrical work out? I'm assuming the shore line is the one that pulls out of the camper? I will get a pic of that as soon as I can. While on the subject of electrical work, when I need to pull new wire or replace existing wire, will regular residential wire work or do I need a special kind of wire for a camper?
The pics showed up. When the time comes to put the AC in, we will need to revisit what is inside that electrical box. If you have a friend who is an electrician, they can do this for you or if needed you can hire it out.

The wire that will go inside the camper for the AC unit is the same romex cable that is used in a home. But, if the cable is not already run, there is a need to insert small pieces of 1/2" EMT steel conduit in the wall studs that the romex goes through as protection for the wire. The steel conduit serves to protect the cable from being accidentally stapled when the siding goes on or other ill events that can break into the cable. It is hard to see in this pic, but all the 120 VAC cables that passes through a wall stud has that small steel sleeve inserted in the stud before the cable goes through. Odds are high, you older camper is setup the same way, at least I think they did that practice back when your camper was built. When you take the siding off you can see these sleeves on the 120 VAC wires that are there now. They did do not do that on the 12 Volt DC wiring as the hazard is not as great as on the 120 VAC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CSXFAN View Post
The way you explained the siding makes perfect sense. I can tell the worst part will be removing all the staples in it. I am curious about the laps in the siding. What is the easiest way to get under the lap and does it have tape? The second pic shows what I am talking about. I feel a lot better about the process now.
On this pic with where your arrows are pointing,


You so not start where the arrows are. You start by taking the corner molding off, then any door, windows or other items mounted in the siding you want to take off.

Then, go under the camper and look up. The bottom piece of siding on the long left and right walls have the siding folded under the bottom of the camper and then stapled up into the floor in the short fold. Once all those staples in the bottom are out, and the moldings, doors etc are out, the bottom sheet of siding will literally fall out of the joint on the sheet above it.
OR, or it needs a little tug and it will come out.

See here, on this Sunline the bottom sheet is gold and you can see the flap folded over the bottom of the camper and the rusted staples in it.


This is what the siding joints look like. The top of the sheet below, pushed up into the bottom of the sheet above it creating and overlap and covering the staples on the bottom of the sheet above it. There are no staples on the top edge of a sheet, just the overlap holds it in, and the moldings, doors etc.







Also a tip, when removing the siding, if any wall studs remain intact, draw a pencil line at the bottom of the sheet on each wall stud. This helps big time when you go put the camper back together as all the windows,doors etc. are already cut out and the sheet has to go back on the same place they came off so the openings line up. You can see the pencil lines to go by when putting the siding back on.



Hope this helps

John
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Old 07-31-2020, 08:09 PM   #7
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A couple of random pics. I pulled out the front window
and was surprised to see it wasn't as bad as I thought.
However I do know for a fact that above the window is
going to be quite a bit of rotten wood.

A closer view of the corner showing the worst place where
the window was. I was just happy to actually be working
on it finally!
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File Type: jpg IMG_7120a.jpg (86.9 KB, 5 views)
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:25 PM   #8
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Hi Jay,

Yeh!!! You made it to the take apart stage. It's the beginning of more to come.

On the stuck on old putty tape on the siding and the window frame, I have found these stiff non marring scrapers work well and do not scratch the siding.
https://www.harborfreight.com/4-piec...set-95832.html

The are hard enough, but not brittle. When the tips get dull, I go the bench grinder and sharpen them and scrape some more.

Keep up the good work! Looking forward to seeing more pics of your progress.

John
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:46 PM   #9
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Thank you John for the scraper info, I appreciate it! I told the wife that
is going to be her job. I was able to work on it for an hour or so this afternoon.
Pics are below and I hope I posted them in this order?

Top left - Front of the camper

Top right - Front of the camper, left side

Bottom left - Front of the camper, bottom left side

Bottom right - Front of the camper, right side

It has gone just as John said with no surprises as far as removing the siding.
The damage is about what I expected, so no big surprises there...

Jay
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File Type: jpg IMG_7182a.jpg (100.6 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_7183a.jpg (164.6 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_7185a.jpg (128.7 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_7186a.jpg (105.5 KB, 5 views)
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Old 08-03-2020, 06:20 PM   #10
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Hi Jay,

You are on a roll now! Full speed ahead!

As you keep going up the front on taking the siding off, we/you can start to tell where the water damage started up higher. Gravity works really well in a camper. Any leak from above, wants to run down....

There "appears" to be corner molding leak issues from failed putty tape seals, but, that could be masked by a higher up leak running down from above. If you actually find good solid no water stained wood up by the roof, then a corner molding seal failure is more likely. Or in addition to roof corner leaks. Odds are high, there are more then just one leak entry location. Many times 3 or 4 leaks all leading into one area.

You are doing great! Looking forward to your progress.

John
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:58 PM   #11
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If I find any wood near the roof that's good and solid with no water stains, I'm going out and by myself a lottery ticket! LOL I will be amazed if that even comes close to happening. It's like playing detective, looking for clues. Thanks John!

Quote:
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If you actually find good solid no water stained wood up by the roof
Does anyone have a good way to remove the corrugated fasteners shown in the pic? I have used a screwdriver and needle nose pliers in the past but it's not that fast or great. I would like to screw the pieces back together when the time comes. I'm not a huge fan of those fasteners.

Jay
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Does anyone have a good way to remove the corrugated fasteners shown in the pic? I have used a screwdriver and needle nose pliers in the past but it's not that fast or great. I would like to screw the pieces back together when the time comes. I'm not a huge fan of those fasteners.

Jay
Jay,

Do you mean these corrugated wood joiners? Like this https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt...1794/204274055

If so, Sunline stopped using them at some point. I'm not sure of the model year. I agree with you, I do not like them, especially on a camper in a vibrating and flexing situation that the entire camper goes though. Getting them out is not pretty. The newer campers I have restored never used them, thankfully so I have no good tricks for you in attempts to save the board.

But, on joining camper wood.

I use 2 methods depending on where it is and how many I'm doing.

Pocket hole screws. Look up Kreg jig. These guys https://www.kregtool.com/ Yopu can join the entire wall without a problem, it is just slower but no question on strength.

I have 3 of their pocket hole jig kits, but this two hole one is simple and effective. https://www.kregtool.com/store/c13/k...reg-jigreg-r3/

They sell them at many of the lumber yards and the screws.

I also have a 1 hole one to fit in tight add on places. Like this,






For 1 1/2" thick wood, use 2 1/2" long screws


Staples. Yes, believe it or not, they do work and work well. Sunline converted to this I'm not sure when. They are big staples though and you need to buy the gun to shoot them. If you are building a lot of walls, this is a fast and sound method.

You staple both sides. These 16 gage, 1" wide by 1" long galvanized staples in 1" wide by 1 1/2" wood studing. Your thinner 3/4" walls would be 1" wide by 1/2" long staples


Layout the whole wall, and staple the pieces in place. It makes a strong frame that can flex if needed and not affect the joint.


John
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