connected 240v to camper plug

[pejones55]

i'm (obviously) new to ur forum and like a lot of other newcomers, i'll show my stupidity immediately. i am new to owning a camper (2002 sunline t-2499 solaris) and when i went to store it for the winter, i went to menards, bought a special rv plug. i looked for a gold and silver screw for reference as to how it connected. both screws were silver, so i connected 240v. it was turned on for about 15 minutes before i turned it off suspecting an issue. my battery will not charge with the onboard system, so i'm assuming my 12v converter is shot or hopefully a protective fuse ????? i have since changed the plug to 120v. i checked polarity on an inside outlet and i have 120v on the small side of the outlet and ground on the large prong. i have an external battery charger connected to my 12v battery and my 12v lights and rangehood fan work and (the puzzling part) a fan that blows thru the heat registers close to the floor is blowing continuous and i pulled the 12v furnace fuse to get it to stop. my microwave lcd display is out and the microwave is not responding at all. the furnace fan comes on lo and hi manually with switch on thermostat but i'm out of LP gas so i haven't tried anything else. any clues as to how much more i can expect to replace?

[JohnB]

Hi Pejones55,

Welcome! Congrats on your new sunny!

I may be able to help. I will need more info, and then we can dig deeper.

First, don't beat yourself up too badly on the 220 snafu. This classic mistake has tricked many good licensed electricians, and I have seen it firsthand. I had a new barn addition built and wired a few years ago. There were two 50 amp 4 wire 230-volt welder outlets and one, 3 wire 30 amp 125 volt RV outlet. I even created a wiring diagram for them to use. The diagram had big caution notes about the 30 amp 125-volt outlet that looks like an old 220-volt dryer outlet. The foreman understood.

Then comes the day they had many electricians working on buttoning up the place after the rough-in inspection. One guy was wiring outlets, and another was landing wires in the breaker panel. The guy wiring the RV outlet did it correctly. The guy doing the breaker panel lands the RV outlet 30-amp wire on 230 volts. It is uncommon to have a 30 amp 125-volt circuit, so he installs a 220 breaker and goes to it. The system was powered up, nothing trips, and they are ready for final inspection.

Knowing how this infamous RV outlet issue can happen, that night, I came behind them when after they left. I tested the RV outlet with my voltmeter; yup, it's 230 VAC; they messed it up. The next morning, they fixed their boo-boo. The point is: It happens!

Now, let's see if we can help you get your camper back up and going.

Originally Posted by pejones55

i'm (obviously) new to ur forum and like a lot of other newcomers, i'll show my stupidity immediately. i am new to owning a camper (2002 sunline t-2499 solaris) and when i went to store it for the winter, i went to menards, bought a special rv plug. i looked for a gold and silver screw for reference as to how it connected. both screws were silver, so i connected 240v. it was turned on for about 15 minutes before i turned it off suspecting an issue. my battery will not charge with the onboard system, so i'm assuming my 12v converter is shot or hopefully a protective fuse ????? i have since changed the plug to 120v. i checked polarity on an inside outlet and i have 120v on the small side of the outlet and ground on the large prong.

Need some info: What make and model power converter is in your camper? Often a prior owner may change these as that vintage had issues. We can help better when we know what you have.

Next is, a little testing. Since you have been doing some AC voltage checks, if you feel comfortable doing this and know how to take the right precautions for shock hazards, I need to have you test this out.

- Power down the 120 AC on the camper. Let the battery stay hooked up, and take your charger off the battery. The 12 VDC should then be live at the battery, and both battery leads are hooked up. At the battery, make sure the heavy white wire is on the neg (-) and the heavy red wire is on the pos (+). Test the DC voltage at the battery. Record it and tell us what it is.

- Go inside and pull the front panel off the power converter to expose the AC breakers, the DC power converter, and the DC fuse blocks.

- You need to look for the heavy red and white wire from the battery where it will land on the DC fuse block. Test the DC voltage there with your meter and record it. Tell us that voltage.

- Look at the power converter and look for the black 120 VAC hot wire that will come from a 120 AC breaker that feeds/supplies power to the power converter. Now that you have found it, place your voltmeter between that black hot wire from the breaker and the white AC neutral wire in the power center. Heads up, the solid white wires are AC neutral, and the stranded white wires are DC common, neg. (-). Both sets of white wires “must” be on separate terminal strips. Make sure you test the white AC neutral wire terminal strip. Sunline used solid Romex cable for the 120 VAC and stranded single wires for the 12 VDC.

- This is a live test. Plug the camper in and test that 120 VAC goes into the power converter.

- If 120 VAC is getting to the power converter, then test the 12 VDC at the main fuse block as you did with the power off. If the power converter works, the DC voltage should jump up in volts into the 13.25 or 13.6 range. Tell us the readings.

The answers to those tests help tell us if AC power is going into the power converter, and if DC power is coming out of it, the DC should be higher than just on the battery. Once we know the brand and make of the power converter, we can tell if there is an internal fuse in the converter that tripped when the 220 volts hit it. It may be just a blown onboard fuse, or it is toasted.

Originally Posted by pejones55

snip…
i have an external battery charger connected to my 12v battery and my 12v lights and rangehood fan work and (the puzzling part) a fan that blows thru the heat registers close to the floor is blowing continuous and i pulled the 12v furnace fuse to get it to stop.

If there is a fan blowing air through the heat registers, this points to the blower in the furnace that is running. Since you had to pull the fuse to get it to stop, there are a few explanations for that.

And you said this:

Originally Posted by pejones55

my microwave lcd display is out and the microwave is not responding at all.

the furnace fan comes on lo and hi manually with switch on thermostat but i'm out of LP gas so i haven't tried anything else. any clues as to how much more i can expect to replace?

At least two different things are going on. Let's talk about the microwave first. If you open the cabinet above the sink, you may see the 120 VAC outlet for the microwave up by the ceiling. Pull the plug out from the microwave and test the outlet that power is going to it. You can use one of those plug-in testers if you have one or your voltmeter. If you do not have power, you must sort out why. The power center has a dedicated 15 amp breaker for just the microwave. If the breaker is not tripped and you have no power at that outlet, something must be wrong on the AC supply line to sort out.

If the outlet is working, then plug in the microwave. The LCD panel should come on with at least something, a 0 most times, and if you open the door, a light inside should come on. If you get nothing, the microwave may have been damaged by the 220 over-volt. Did you ever see the microwave work before the over-volt event? Some of the older microwaves have gone bad. Did it work before you got it?

Now to the furnace. Maybe I missed something; you first stated the fan was blowing out of the “heat” registers by the floor, and you had to pull the fuse to get it to stop. Then you stated the “furnace” fan comes on Hi & Lo by the thermostat. Something is not adding up, and it may be some misunderstanding, OR you have a heat strip in your roof AC unit that hot air comes only from the ceiling registers, not the floor registers.

The Atwood Hydroflame furnace that blows air out of the heat registers by the floor "only” has one speed. It is on or off; there is no Hi or Low. The furnace has its independent control system and only needs a run command to start from the roof AC unit control box. The furnace control to send a run or not run signal is part of the roof AC unit control system. The wall thermostat sends the signal to the control box up in the ceiling to run both the AC compressor and AC fan system that blows cold air out of the ceiling ducts. When the T stat is in heat mode, the T stat sends the signal to the control box, which then sends a run signal to the furnace. If you have it, a heat strip option in the AC unit will blow heat from the ceiling registers if that mode is selected. Do you have the heat strip option? Or know how to tell if you have it? A selection at the T stat would say something like heat strip.

You “might” have a few issues: a furnace run signal control problem, a rooftop AC control box board issue, a thermostat problem, or a big-picture understanding of how the wall T stat works with the AC control box and the furnace.

So that you know, the Dometic roof AC system control box sorts out if the Atwood furnace is to run or not. The furnace is a stand-alone 12 VDC system. No 120 VAC power is used with the furnace, unlike the roof AC unit, which uses 120 VAC to run the compressor and fan motor. The Dometic control board/box is up in the ceiling above the large AC mesh filter and closes a relay contact on the PC board to send a run signal to the furnace. The thermostat tells the Dometic control board to run the heat at the furnace or cold air from the roof AC unit.

We need to sort out the problem of something telling the furnace to run, and you have to pull the fuse to shut the furnace blower down. Something was telling the furnace to run. That can be several things; we need more info to go to the next steps. Test this: with the wall T stat turned to OFF, does the furnace blower still run when you put the fuse back in? If it does, then we start down that path of why.

Another question: Do you know if the furnace and the roof AC unit ever worked right before the 220-volt issue? This means you saw it works, not that the prior owner told you it worked the last time they used it.

Pictures help in these cases; a pic of the wall T stat is a great place to start. It can tell me the vintage of your Dometic control box and if you have the older bi-metal T stat or, the newer Analog T stat control system. Your vintage camper is about when Sunline started changing between the two systems as Dometic did design changes in the Brisk Air control system and was phasing out the older bi-metal systems.

I hope this helps you.

John

[JohnB]

There are three ways to add pics.

1. Upload pics to a specific post, attaching them at the end of the post.

2. Link them in from a publicly viewable web photo hosting service you have.

See here for 1 and 2 https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...html#post86041

3. You can upload pics to the forum in your photo album. Then, link them to anywhere in the text of a post. See here on how to create an album. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...html#post87945

If you still get stuck, let us know. Pic's go a long way in helping show things you are working on.

[pejones55]

sorry for not getting back sooner, i drive a truck part time & they called me to work ...
1. the panel says i have a CL6000 ... however ... i found an
"EIIDAR RV WF-8955-MBA 12VDC 55 Amp Power Converter Main Board Replacement" that i have slightly modified to make it work ... it's only 5 amps less than the original and it was only $135 instead of $350 for the replacement they recommended ... need to caution anyone who attempts to use this converter board, the "white and black" wires feeding the circuit board with 120v are backwards ... white was ACL and black was ACN ... so my 12v converter issue is taken care of.
2. microwave issue ... i have checked the voltage at the outlet and it is 120v ... i removed the microwave and brought it in the house (where it is warm), plugged it into 120v and still nothing ... i pulled the cover off of my DOMETIC model CDMW10MW man date 7/2002 ... there looks to be a primary circuit board (small) with a 250v 20amp fuse that has continuity thru the fuse ... that's as far as i went in testing ... i visually inspected both circuit boards and saw no visual evidence of discoloration on any diodes, resisters, capacitors, etc.
3. furnace fan running continually ... i plugged in the 15amp fuse to the furnace and the fan did not come on ... but ... when i turned up the thermostat to above room temp (knowing i have no propane) the fan came on as if it were trying to ignite. i turned the thermostat back down below room temp and it clicked but the fan did not shut off. running out of time, i pulled the fuse again to stop the fan from running ... when i got the converter board replaced, i plugged in the fuse and the fan did not come on. ran out of time again so i didn't turn up the thermostat again to see if fan stuck on ...
all of ur assistance has been a great help and i hope to find time soon to do more testing under ur guidance ... thank you so much for ur help in repairing what i have done so far and looking forward to testing the refrigerator, air conditioner, thermostat and range after i get the propane bottles filled ... i'm assuming the microwave needs replaced because i'm not very good at replacing elements on circuit boards ... thx again in advance

[pejones55]

i just happened to think ... most (??all??) of the time i have noticed the furnace fan running, it has been after i turned up the thermostat to call for heat ... and then turned it back down ... so ... relating to this from memory (not what it used to be), i'm thinking that there is a timer for the fan to run for xx?? minutes after the controller turns off the burners ... i'll need to get the propane tanks filled, turn up the thermostat, let the furnace run for a few minutes to make sure it's going to run normally and then turn down the thermostat below room temp and see if the blower turns off in 60, 90 or 120 seconds ... i (again) feel so un-educated

[JohnB]

Hi Pejones,

First off, no worries about getting back to us. Work pays the way... It sounds like you sorted out the power converter; good for you.

You are on the right track with the furnace. The furnace does have a pre-burn and a post-burn timer. When the furnace first gets a command to run (the tstat gets turned on, even for an instant), the blower will run a purge cycle to clear the combustion chamber. This purge could be 15 to 20 seconds. The older furnace timers were not that accurate. There is no way to stop this fan cycle other than pulling the fuse or flipping the power switch on the furnace outside, pending the rev of the furnace.

Once the furnace starts creating heat and the gas burner goes, when the T stat is satisfied, there is another cool-down timer. The gas burner shuts down, and the blower keeps cooling off the system. This time could be 45 - 90 seconds, again by the pending vintage of the controls.

It would be helpful to tell us (and you) the furnace's model number. When your camper was built, Atwood changed the control system from an old heated disk timer to put the timer on the main PC board.

Outside the camper is a furnace vent cover. There are 4 screws that come off, and you will see the furnace blower housing. On the housing is a sticker with the model and revision number; could you tell us the model number? This will help with future troubleshooting.

Here is the outside cover


The furnace looks similar to this, pending our vintage. You have the 8500 series, but the rest of the numbers tell us the size and vintage. This is an 8525-IV furnace. The 85 is the 8500 series, the 25 is the BTU rating (25,000 btu), and - IV is the rev level.


And heads up, when you tighten up the 4 cover screws, take extra care not to over-tighten it. Tighten by hand, and stop once the gasket is compassed and feel the torque increase. You will strip and crack out the plastic like this,


Hope this helps,

John

[JohnB]

Two other things when you have the furnace cover off,

1. Take a few pics of the furnace with the cover off. That helps a lot if we need to get into troubleshooting; we can see what you are seeing. Prior owners sometimes change things.

2. Inspect for bee nests. You can use a flashlight and look inside on the right-hand side where the air intake and exhaust tube is located for bee nests. If needed, the exhaust tube can come out to see the blower wheel better and look deeper into the heat chamber. There is a wing nut that holds the exhaust tube in, then lift and wiggle it will come out.

This pic shows the exhaust tube out, where you can see inside the blower wheel air intake and the exhaust port on the heat exchanger. The air intake is a center hole in a silver metal cover to the left of the gas valve. Look as good as you can through the metal cover hole. A mirror may help. The blower wheel inside is black plastic. If it all looks good in the air intake and the exhaust tube, then great. If you see a sign of mud build-up, you should clean all that out before gas-firing it.


Mud daubers have been known to make a real mess inside these. If yours does not have the insect screen, I highly recommend adding them. We can help with what to get.

John

[pejones55]

hi JohnB ...
1. i have an update on my furnace operation ... i now have propane ... i turned up the thermostat and called for heat ... it seamed everything worked as it shld ... the fan started immediately ... a few seconds later (approx 15-20) i heard the propane ignite and within about 30 seconds i had heat from the registers ... after about 5 minutes, i turned down the thermostat and waited about 4-6 minutes after the blowing air had lost all of it's heat and the fan did not turn off ... i tapped the wall thermostat somewhat lightly and no change ... i then removed furnace cover and tapped the circuit board in the lower left side of the compartment lightly and the fan shut down immediately. is that an electric timer? or a tungston coated contact controlled by a bimetallic spring? ... and ... is it possibly replacable/repairable?? if it's a tungston contact style, i can file the carbon from the tungston to temporarily get it to work, but it it's a short term fix
2. also ... i have the micro cover off and don't see anything "obvious" on the primary or the secondary circuit boards ... is there something more to check that might be repairable? or shall i discard it and buy one for $100 at our RV junkyard about 50 miles from my home?
3. also ... i have added pics in an album ... can u see them? or do i need to pick the ones i want to go with descriptions like u have done

[pejones55]

my 2002 sunline camper t-2499 solaris ... on my atwood furnace model 8525-iv-dclp ... when i lightly tapped it my furnace fan turned off ... is the 45-90 second timer u mentioned, replaceable? or do i need to replace the complete circuit board? it looks like they are $40-$50 on ebay

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by pejones55

my 2002 sunline camper t-2499 solaris ... on my atwood furnace model 8525-iv-dclp ... when i lightly tapped it my furnace fan turned off ... is the 45-90 second timer u mentioned, replaceable? or do i need to replace the complete circuit board? it looks like they are $40-$50 on ebay

Hi,

First off, I looked at the pics in your album. You get and A+ on the pics. Now we can see what you have, and we have the model number.

On the 8500 series rev - IV, the blower control is all on the PC board. There is no separate timer or motor starter/contacter for the blower motor. The Rev III had a separate heater-type timer, relay.

Now, as to the blower running too long and not shutting off, h'mmm, if the gas burner did shut down when the T stat was satisfied or turned off, then the furnace controls (the PC board) are the only thing left running the blower. There is nothing else that will turn the blower off. The blower motor timer is not a replaceable part short of doing PC board soldering/troubleshooting. It is a solid-state chip-style timer.

This pic shows the 8500 series rev IV PC control board


The black cube is the blower motor starter/relay. The red and blue wires are for the 12 VDC power and the blower motor.

This good pic of yours:


The white wire connector on the front of the card looks like it is partly coming unplugged. Suggest you flip the power on/off toggle switch at the furnace; that kills all power to the furnace on your rev IV furnace. Then, unplug the white connector and plug it back in. Look to see if there is dirt, etc, on the PC board strip or in the plug; clean if there is. For the white connector/plug, suggest using contact cleaner spray like used in automotive; CRC makes a good contact cleaner, wet it, then blow it out with compressed air if you have it.

On the PC board, a tip I learned from our club member Tinstaff is to use a piece of solid copper wire, like the ground wire out of a Romex cable, and rub that on the PC board connections to clean it if the contact spray cleaner does not remove it. Avoid normal sandpaper. It is too aggressive.

I would clean up those contacts and try the furnace again before replacing the PC board. There may be something else going on. By you giggling at the PC board, the fan may have stopped due to a loose connection. The timer is all solid state, but the relay/motor starter is not solid state, it is a DC coil with dry contacts relay; if the relay is getting stuck on, then yes, the blower will stay running, and it will not be the timer.

What brand of PC board did you find? Many cheap junk boards are being sold for these older furnaces. If you are getting an actual Atwood/Dometic board, then okay. Or there is a USA company called Dinosaur that also makes these. They are good quality. see here for the FAN 50 Plus Pins board. https://www.dinosaurelectronics.com/Fan_50_PIN.html

Here is something else that can help. The service manual for your furnace. We have this in our FILES section here on the forum, which may help you.

This is 2003 one that describes the changes made from the Rev III to Rev IV https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/d...o=file&id=5631

This 2007 service manual also has the furnaces, the next issue from Atwood.https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/d...do=file&id=461

The last issue was in 2015. I have not uploaded that one yet, but the 20093 & 2007 manual should help get you going.

Let us know how this goes or if you need more help.

John

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by pejones55

2. also ... i have the micro cover off and don't see anything "obvious" on the primary or the secondary circuit boards ... is there something more to check that might be repairable? or shall i discard it and buy one for $100 at our RV junkyard about 50 miles from my home?
3. also ... i have added pics in an album ... can u see them? or do i need to pick the ones i want to go with descriptions like u have done

Microwave: if you do not see something obvious as to why it does not power up, it may be toast. Did you ever see it working when you got the camper? These have gone bad before, and the overvolt, I'm sure, did not help it any.

Getting a drop-in replacement will be a little challenging but doable. Dometic themselves stopped making the model in the Sunlines. Not to mention the cost of them when they did make them. If you can find one that size to fit in the cabinet the same, that is the challenge. Or it was about a year or so ago when another member had their 2005 Sunline have one die.

Things to know: the Dometic microwave in there now has a vent kit to direct the heat out the front top grill. Many home microwaves vent the heat out the back, which, in this case, the camper has no access to let air in or out in the back, especially if the depth of the new microwave goes close to the wall. Venting a home-style microwave is something that you have to address in some way on how to do it.

Try your luck looking for a new or used one; check how it vents and the cabinet size. The front grill top and bottom pieces hold the microwave from falling out of the hole going down the road.

Your pics are great; there is no need to add comments. I will give you one heads-up on the water heater.



Your pic shows the prior owner used what looks like a black iron metal drain plug. Yes, it will plug up the drain hole, but... the heads up is that Atwood used a potable water-rated nylon plug. The reason is the threaded port in the aluminum tank. If you cross-thread the nylon plugin, the plug gets messed up, so pitch the plug and put a new one in. If you cross-thread a metal plug, the plug may win, and the tank loses. A steel plug has high odds of cutting crossed threads in the tank if you do not start the plug straight and true to the tank port. The drain port is not in the greatest easy access location; cross threading is very easy to do.

Hope this helps,

John

[Tinstaafl]

Originally Posted by JohnB

On the PC board, a tip I learned from our club member Tinstaff is to use a piece of solid copper wire, like the ground wire out of a Romex cable, and rub that on the PC board connections to clean it if the contact spray cleaner does not remove it. Avoid normal sandpaper. It is too aggressive.

Thanks for the credit John; I'm impressed that you remembered the source.

Only thing I might add, if that blower relay is mechanical rather than electronic, it's possible for such a relay to develop "corrosion" on its contacts from mini-arcing, causing them to stick together when they should release. Not very common, but it does happen.

In that event, a short-term fix is burnishing [the relay contacts] as you describe above, but the real fix is replacement. Particularly since it appears that relay is a sealed unit that wouldn't allow you to get at the contacts. In the real world, unless you have the skills to do component-level repairs on circuit boards, that means replacing the entire board.