Just shopping

[Jmbrad]

Hello!

My wife and I are in our mid-50s now and we are shopping for our very first RV. We have been tent campers all of our life except in my very early childhood when my father built his own camper out of our mobile home axles. He cut them down to road with well to the frame and built a stick and tin factory looking camper on top. He pulled it all the way from North Carolina to Toronto Canada in the early '70s when I was just a wee lad. I barely remember the trip but there's pictures so I know it happened. 😂

So we are looking to get off the ground from tent camping. We have 2 Boston terriers, a 3-year-old and a 15-year-old, both males. So we need a little bit of space for them too.

I found this Sunline fairly local to me. It appears to be way overpriced but the owner is willing to negotiate. Can you help me identify the model? She said she had no idea the model number. The floor covering has been replaced so it has had some minor remodeling done. From what research I've done it appears to be mostly stock.

https://charlotte.craigslist.org/tro/d/kannapolis-sunline-satelite-camper/7665340394.html#


Thank you in advance!

Jody

[Jmbrad]

I fixed the link to the trailer. Look forward to your replies.

https://charlotte.craigslist.org/tro...665340394.html

[JohnB]

Hi Jody,

They painted over the decals from the pics, and it is hard to tell what year the camper is with the decals painted over. It appears it is between a 1986 and 1989 model-year camper. If you have the VIN, we can back into a model year from the VIN better.

As to a model number, well, it appears it could be either a T-2263 (22' 7") or a T-2463 (24' 6") front option B, dinette. The VIN number does not declare the model but does help with a range of overall length.

Sunline declared length from ball coupler to rear bumper. You can sort out which of those two models you have using a tape measure.

As far as which model number or year, it may not change the selling price, being that old. If you get the camper, the title may have a model and year, but only sometimes; it depends on the state's requirements when it was registered.

We have copies of the original sales brochures on that era camper in our FILES section; you can download copies of those 3 years and compare them.

You must be logged into the forum to get to the FILES section. At the top of the forum are tabs; look for the word "FILES" and click it.


Once into the files section, scroll down to the "Sunline Brochures" section. You can go in there and find a sale brochure for the camper years you are looking for and download a copy.

Hope this helps.

John

[Jmbrad]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Hi Jody,

They painted over the decals from the pics, and it is hard to tell what year the camper is with the decals painted over. It appears it is between a 1986 and 1989 model-year camper. If you have the VIN, we can back into a model year from the VIN better.

As to a model number, well, it appears it could be either a T-2263 (22' 7") or a T-2463 (24' 6") front option B, dinette. The VIN number does not declare the model but does help with a range of overall length.

Sunline declared length from ball coupler to rear bumper. You can sort out which of those two models you have using a tape measure.

As far as which model number or year, it may not change the selling price, being that old. If you get the camper, the title may have a model and year, but only sometimes; it depends on the state's requirements when it was registered.

We have copies of the original sales brochures on that era camper in our FILES section; you can download copies of those 3 years and compare them.

You must be logged into the forum to get to the FILES section. At the top of the forum are tabs; look for the word "FILES" and click it.


Once into the files section, scroll down to the "Sunline Brochures" section. You can go in there and find a sale brochure for the camper years you are looking for and download a copy.

Hope this helps.

John

This is awesome information. Thank you for the detailed response. We plan on seeing it in person Sunday. I'll report back with what I find.

[Jmbrad]

We got to see the camper in person today. It's a T2263 as you suggested JohnB. Now that I know the model, I'm really surprised at how light this thing is.

So there are many issues. The refrigerator access door is missing. She put window screen over the opening?? She said it fell off when she moved it from the coast back to her home. There are some signs of significant water damage. One area above the kitchen has been leaking at some point. The refrigerator has been changed out to a 120v a/c dorm style. The width fits OK, but there's a large gap between the top of the fridge and the cabinet. The rear tail light lens are also missing.

The most concerning thing is the back wall. Both corners have been leaking at some point. The camp side rear corner is severely compromised. When stepping in that corner, I can here the sheet metal skin buckling under my weight. The other rear corner where the bed side table is located has also been leaking. I took a video, but I can't figure out how to attach it here.

Other than the back corners, it seems solid structurally. I didn't think to bring a ladder to check the roof, but she said it had recently been resealed. If we decide to look at it again, I'll bring a ladder and generator next time to check it out more thoroughly.

The only other thing that may completely eliminate it from our list of potentials is this: it's been smoked in. Not to the point that it's nicotine stained, but it does smell of smoke. If I buy it, I will be ripping out the carpet in the bedroom, replacing the mattress obviously, and replacing all the cushions in the dinette. So here's the question: What's the odds of getting rid of the smoke smell if we git rid of all the fabrics? Anyone have any experience in this area of old RV renovations?

So bottom line, if everything worked and we could agree on a price, is it a hard pass or go for it?

[johnnybgood]

I’d pass on that camper if it were me.
Unless I was looking for a huge project.

[Jmbrad]

Originally Posted by johnnybgood

I’d pass on that camper if it were me.
Unless I was looking for a huge project.

I think you're right. I've found a few more locally for less that have been completely remodeled. Different brands, but much better condition.

[JohnB]

Hi, I'll add some comments below for you to think through.

Originally Posted by Jmbrad

So there are many issues. The refrigerator access door is missing. She put window screen over the opening?? She said it fell off when she moved it from the coast back to her home. There are some signs of significant water damage. One area above the kitchen has been leaking at some point. The refrigerator has been changed out to a 120v a/c dorm style. The width fits OK, but there's a large gap between the top of the fridge and the cabinet. The rear tail light lens are also missing.

The most concerning thing is the back wall. Both corners have been leaking at some point. The camp side rear corner is severely compromised. When stepping in that corner, I can here the sheet metal skin buckling under my weight. The other rear corner where the bed side table is located has also been leaking. I took a video, but I can't figure out how to attach it here.

Other than the back corners, it seems solid structurally. I didn't think to bring a ladder to check the roof, but she said it had recently been resealed. If we decide to look at it again, I'll bring a ladder and generator next time to check it out more thoroughly.

If they leave the outside fridge vent off and only put a screen on it, the screen will not keep the water out. That is a large-sized hole to be opened with a screen during a rain storm. That is an issue.

You did well by finding the water damage you did. Water damage is the real enemy of a camper, any brand camper.

If you want to know how wet or dry a camper is, any brand of camper, consider getting a moisture meter. For most camper folks, if they can't see water damage inside, they feel there is no water damage. Campers do not leak like houses do. When you see the leak inside, as you have, the leaks have been ongoing for years, 5 plus by the time it rots the wallboard to the point you can see and feel it.

see this post for more on the moisture meter,
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...per-17613.html

The one you are looking at has front and rear wall water damage that will need to be dealt with if you want to keep the camper for very long. The damage is always bigger than one thing; it seeps wherever it can go, including the floor.

Here is one of my project campers that I have restored. I acquired this pre-covid for a very low cost. The camper was not abused, and the inside was in great shape, just major water damage. It was a perfect restoration camper. I have 3 more like this also. There are over 800 work hours to get it finished.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...tml#post137469

When someone stated the roof was recently resealed, it is good that something was done, but what exactly did they seal and was it done right?

The price they were asking for a very wet camper is high. But since Covid, wet campers are sold for a lot of money daily. If the one you found is perfect for you, and you can rebuild it, it is doable but will take a long time.

If you are looking, look for the Sunlines. They were built better than most brands and once restored, they are still better than most for sale today.

Hope this helps

John

[Jmbrad]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Hi, I'll add some comments below for you to think through.



If they leave the outside fridge vent off and only put a screen on it, the screen will not keep the water out. That is a large-sized hole to be opened with a screen during a rain storm. That is an issue.

You did well by finding the water damage you did. Water damage is the real enemy of a camper, any brand camper.

If you want to know how wet or dry a camper is, any brand of camper, consider getting a moisture meter. For most camper folks, if they can't see water damage inside, they feel there is no water damage. Campers do not leak like houses do. When you see the leak inside, as you have, the leaks have been ongoing for years, 5 plus by the time it rots the wallboard to the point you can see and feel it.

see this post for more on the moisture meter,
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...per-17613.html

The one you are looking at has front and rear wall water damage that will need to be dealt with if you want to keep the camper for very long. The damage is always bigger than one thing; it seeps wherever it can go, including the floor.

Here is one of my project campers that I have restored. I acquired this pre-covid for a very low cost. The camper was not abused, and the inside was in great shape, just major water damage. It was a perfect restoration camper. I have 3 more like this also. There are over 800 work hours to get it finished.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...tml#post137469

When someone stated the roof was recently resealed, it is good that something was done, but what exactly did they seal and was it done right?

The price they were asking for a very wet camper is high. But since Covid, wet campers are sold for a lot of money daily. If the one you found is perfect for you, and you can rebuild it, it is doable but will take a long time.

If you are looking, look for the Sunlines. They were built better than most brands and once restored, they are still better than most for sale today.

Hope this helps

John

Wow! that's quite a rebuild. More of a total reconstruction.

I have a friend that's rebuilt many stick and tin campers. He bought a Casita and says he's done with everything else.

I found a 1993 Fleetwood Wilderness 24M today. Much better condition. I liked the floor plan of the Sunline better.

The weight of the Fleetwood concerns me though.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Jmbrad

Wow! that's quite a rebuild. More of a total reconstruction.

I have a friend that's rebuilt many stick and tin campers. He bought a Casita and says he's done with everything else.

I found a 1993 Fleetwood Wilderness 24M today. Much better condition. I liked the floor plan of the Sunline better.

The weight of the Fleetwood concerns me though.

Yes, the word restoration fits my project campers...

On the Wilderness, they were constructed similarly to Sunlines, meaning they can leak the same way. I really suggest the moisture meter to know what you are getting into.

Hope this helps

John

[Jmbrad]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Yes, the word restoration fits my project campers...

On the Wilderness, they were constructed similarly to Sunlines, meaning they can leak the same way. I really suggest the moisture meter to know what you are getting into.

Hope this helps

John

Thank you. I'll take a look at them.

[2beagles]

IMO that year needing that much work isn't worth half the asking price. As JohnB can tell you, what damage you can see is usually the tip of the iceberg and the hidden damage is often more consequential than the obvious.
I just finished repairing a "small soft spot" in the floor of my 2570. I ended up removing and replacing 50 square feet of the subfloor and floor structure which entailed removing the entire kitchen and the rear wall of the camper. (There's still more work left for next spring.)
My point is: Be extremely careful when appraising water damage. Roof leaks can cause lots of hidden damage.

[Jmbrad]

All RV construction has its pros and cons. Azdel and Aluminum still delaminates.

Looked at a 2000ish 5th wheel Scamp and even the floor was rotted out in it.

I see the appeal of new. At least you can keep up with the maintenance... maybe.

[Jmbrad]

What we've been shopping for has gradually been getting smaller and smaller. I've been looking at these little teardrop campers with fiberglass that goes from the hitch to the rear bumper on the roof. Some of them don't even have AC on the roof. It's in the wall which in my opinion is a plus.

Anyone have any experience with how the roof holds up on those? Probably not the best place to ask that on this forum though.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Jmbrad

What we've been shopping for has gradually been getting smaller and smaller. I've been looking at these little teardrop campers with fiberglass that goes from the hitch to the rear bumper on the roof. Some of them don't even have AC on the roof. It's in the wall which in my opinion is a plus.

Anyone have any experience with how the roof holds up on those? Probably not the best place to ask that on this forum though.

Actually, our forum has many members who have Sunlines and now have other brands. Or had other brands and now have Sunline.

Teardrop campers. I have been up close and looked at a good Sunline friend's camper who has a big 2006 T276SR I worked on for them and a small teardrop. I have not worked on the teardrop, though.

Look at NuCamp T & B, these folks https://nucamprv.com/tab-camper/

I was impressed with the build quality, inside and out. If this size camper fits your needs, it has advantages. That said, sealants are still used to seal both siding and roof joints; just the way they are built, they can have fewer joints to seal. These still have to have frequent sealant inspections.

And I totally agree with you on camper construction. Adzel may not rot, but the delamination of fiberglass siding and a leak in an Adzel wall is still an issue. A camper that has a large amount of glue holding it together does not like any water leaks. The repair after a bad leak can be worse than a stick and tin-built camper.

The bottom line, learn how campers leak, however they are built. Be diligent at inspecting all sealants (roof and sides), learning what the inspection means (what is good and what is not), and address any sealant issue as soon as any sealant issue starts.

Good luck in your camper hunt. Please report back what you find, we all learn from each other.

John

[Jmbrad]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Actually, our forum has many members who have Sunlines and now have other brands. Or had other brands and now have Sunline.

Teardrop campers. I have been up close and looked at a good Sunline friend's camper who has a big 2006 T276SR I worked on for them and a small teardrop. I have not worked on the teardrop, though.

Look at NuCamp T & B, these folks https://nucamprv.com/tab-camper/

I was impressed with the build quality, inside and out. If this size camper fits your needs, it has advantages. That said, sealants are still used to seal both siding and roof joints; just the way they are built, they can have fewer joints to seal. These still have to have frequent sealant inspections.

And I totally agree with you on camper construction. Adzel may not rot, but the delamination of fiberglass siding and a leak in an Adzel wall is still an issue. A camper that has a large amount of glue holding it together does not like any water leaks. The repair after a bad leak can be worse than a stick and tin-built camper.

The bottom line, learn how campers leak, however they are built. Be diligent at inspecting all sealants (roof and sides), learning what the inspection means (what is good and what is not), and address any sealant issue as soon as any sealant issue starts.

Good luck in your camper hunt. Please report back what you find, we all learn from each other.

John

I will, and thank you so much. I'm learning a lot!

[Jmbrad]

We ended up getting a much newer RV, 2018 KZ Connect C201QB. The floorplan we wanted at a reasonable price.

Thank you for the advice earlier!

[JohnB]

Hi Jmbrad,

Thanks for reporting back. Have fun with your new camper. You are welcome to stay with the forum here; we are not hard-line; we must have a Sunline. Many members had a Sunline and sold it and still are with the forum with their new some other brand camper.

You started out looking at a Sunline, your part of the club!

John

[Jmbrad]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Hi Jmbrad,

Thanks for reporting back. Have fun with your new camper. You are welcome to stay with the forum here; we are not hard-line; we must have a Sunline. Many members had a Sunline and sold it and still are with the forum with their new some other brand camper.

You started out looking at a Sunline, your part of the club!

John

Thank you for the warm invitation!