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Old 02-16-2020, 08:56 PM   #1
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Finally got a camper!!!

Hello all. I am obviously new to forum but am also new to owning a camper. Well my boss had a 18' sunline that he rarely used and graciously gave it to me. I would have had to modify the gooseneck hitch so I just modified it into a 5th wheel hitch. I just purchased a new to me 2016 Colorado and seems to be plenty of truck although I only towed it a few miles so far. I have been working on cleaning it up and have a little more work to do, a.c. and trying to figure out how to light furnace and hot water heater and trying to figure out the waste water disposal. A lot to figure out but I've found a lot of useful info on here already. I can't wait to get out camping and hopefully seeing some fellow sunline owners.
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Old 02-17-2020, 04:55 AM   #2
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I'd be a little concerned about a Colorado pulling a 5th wheel trailer. I pulled a Gulfstream Innsbruck 18 ft tongue hitched with a 2002 S-10 quadcab for about 10 years, and even with the 4.3Lv6(only Engine Available), 4l60E and 3.73 rear, it would struggle to maintain 50mph in 3rd holding 3rd with shifter and foot to the floor. That particular S-10 was rated for 6K and the trailer weighed 4.5K.) If you have the 4cyl gas engine, DON'T TOW IT, PERIOD. The drivetrain ain't up to the job. The V-6 may be up to it depending on the gearing, truck axle GAWR(Gross Axle Weight Ratings), GCVWR, Trailer unloaded weight and loaded weight, which affects hitch weight. And having the 2.8L Diesel gives you 1K# capacity advantage over the V-6.



Couple of things to do for the colorado.


1.) Plumb in the largest Transmission cooler you can afford (up to 25K-lbs capacity). Cool Trannies are HAPPY TRANNIES!



2.) Stick a straight Vacuum gauge on the "A" pillar. Keeping the vacuum as high as possible while maintaining set speed (NEVER USE Cruise control Towing!...BAAAADD JU-JU!!!) can maximize gas mileage. What little you can get. I'm talking mid to high Single digits. Once you get moving and up to spd, you back off and match vacuum with a steady speedometer. Expect speed to drop sooner or more as you shift in the seat. Just ease back in the throttle and let it build up slow. try and keep vacuum above 10" of Mercury when speeding up a couple miles an hour. 15-16" is max cruise setting, depending on the truck.



3.) If you have a TURBO'ed engine, a Vacuum/boost gauge is substituted for the vacuum gauge in 2.) The same priciples apply, just that the numbers will change, and I haven't had a my Diesel long enough to graph it all out. suffice to say the least boost will probably get you the most MPG.



4.) Get all your max weight ratings, and with an empty trainer (no gas, no water, nothing inside including tools) have it and the truck weighed together and then individually. This gives you a starting point (provided that is weighs less in all parameters than the vehicle wieght ratings. If any of the weight ratings exceed the tow vehicle weight rating, see if it's a balance issue or a total weight issue. If everything is copasthetic, hook it up and have fun with it (and call me a worry wart).
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Old 02-17-2020, 06:56 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply, my first one lol. I am still trying to figure out whether it even has a factory trans. Cooler or not but even if it does im sure a larger one sure wouldn't hurt. The truck is the v6 305 hp. Model and believe it has a max tow rating of around 6500#. From the info I have gathered from posts on here dry weight I'd just under 2,000 lbs. I will take it to be weighed when I have it all situated but the way it sits now it doesn't seem much heavier if at all than my bass boat. I appreciate all the recommendations and have one question, where would i tie the vacuum line in? I also do have trans temp. Gauge to help keep an eye on potential risk. Thanks again, rick
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Old 02-19-2020, 05:39 PM   #4
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Hi Basser,

Congrats on your new Sunny! And welcome to the club!

Sunline made a few different types of 5th wheels over the years. Some very small, light weight single axle 5er's with a gooseneck hitch. And other 5e'rs that were really heavy, tandem axle, 10,000# to 15,000# etc. But I'm assuming since you are trying this with a Colorado, you have one of the older smaller ones.

Do you know the year and model of the camper? Any chance of some pics? If you do not know the model or year, post pics of all 4 outside walls and we can try and help you back into the year and model.

Have fun with the new camper.

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Old 02-19-2020, 06:22 PM   #5
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Thanks JohnB, the original owner kept all brochures and warranty papers and booklets from the purchase right down to the gooseneck installation. He had written on the papers =1984= and then wrote 1985 and circled it so im assuming it is a 1985 model. According to the brochure layout it is an f1850. It is a single axle model. I have original brochures for t series, c series and f series with all of the info and standard features on the different models which is pretty cool. The f 1850 lists as 18'8" 7' wide and axle weight empty at 1960lbs and pin weight empty of 570. It sends like the perfect size to not be too cumbersome but still afford some creature comforts. I have gotten the hw heater, 3 burner stove, and furnace going as the previous owner hasn't used it in a long time. The fridge is shot so im in the middle of installing a small dorm fridge in it now. The ac is next as its not working either and I am weighing options and researching that project still. Was thinking about a mini split unit but am leaning heavily toward going back with a new roof ac. What are your thoughts on that? I am not real tech savvy but I will try to upload some pics tomorrow. Im trying to take my time with these repairs/ upgrades but am getting really anxious to get camping lol. What size camper do you have? Is there many members that camp in Florida that you know of? Sorry if my reply turned into a novel. Have a great evening. Rick
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Old 02-20-2020, 10:31 PM   #6
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Hi Rick,

You found the smallest Sunline 5'th wheel in 1985. They were really unique. We have a few members with them.

Hardybus was one of them, a 1984 F1850 though. He towed his with a S10 pickup. Do not know how well the older 4.3 did with it, but I think he was NH which is pretty mountainous. I think he may have sold it by now, but he did a lot of work in it. Here is pic from his album.


If you look in our 5th wheel forum, there are others with the F1850 and they have pics of them too.

If you keep the weights in check, the GVWR of the 85 F1850 is 3,420#. We can help you run the numbers to see where it falls in with your truck if you want. Just ask.

On the roof AC unit, what does not work on it? it may be able to be fixable pending what the issue is.

What size camper do I have...Well I have 5 Sunlines... We camp in our big one, a 2004 T310SR which is 32' lg and weighs just under 10,000#. Thus the need for my F350 to tow it. The other 4 are project campers I am restoring. The smallest is a 2004 T1950, 20'4" and has a GVWR of 5,500#. My signature has the model numbers of the others.

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Old 02-21-2020, 09:42 AM   #7
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Hey John. Your on your way to being a camper collector lol. That's awesome though very time consuming im sure. I've spent a bit of time just redoing a few minor things to mine.
As for the air conditioner, the unit blows air out and the compressor draws down like it's kicking on but definately not cold. It also vibrates real bad especially on high. I checked the bearings and they seem good- no up and down movement but there is some front to back. The evaporator is rusty but not sure if it's all the way thru or not. My thoughts on it were this, if I could recharge it myself for a low cost I would but I also believe this is the original unit which puts it at about 35yrs old so I don't want to put too much into it.
Now onto the gvwr, I'm not sure exactly what that means, Is the truck supposed to weigh at least that much? Or is that the max that the the camper can weigh? This is the first mid size truck I've owned and the only time I towed anything heavier than a bass boat was with a 3/4 ton dodge diesel so I didn't have to worry about a whole lot with it.
On a different note I am going to browse the pics you suggested to see if all the f1850's had the white access cover for the hw heater/ furnace. I thought it was replaced on mine and ugly so I painted it cream color too match the rest of the camper.
Thanks for the info and patience with me im learning as I go. Rick
P.s. i thought i had some pictures uploaded and they said they uploaded just not anywhere i can find them, will try again though.
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Old 02-22-2020, 06:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basser View Post
Hey John. Your on your way to being a camper collector lol. That's awesome though very time consuming im sure. I've spent a bit of time just redoing a few minor things to mine.
A collector, well yeh. More like a retired guy with an extreme restoration hobby...

Quote:
As for the air conditioner, the unit blows air out and the compressor draws down like it's kicking on but definately not cold. It also vibrates real bad especially on high. I checked the bearings and they seem good- no up and down movement but there is some front to back. The evaporator is rusty but not sure if it's all the way thru or not. My thoughts on it were this, if I could recharge it myself for a low cost I would but I also believe this is the original unit which puts it at about 35yrs old so I don't want to put too much into it.
It sounds like the unit runs. That is a good start. If you can feel the pipes going into and out of the compressor, and one of them is not getting cold, that many times indicates a problem in the gas system. Unless you have a buddy in the HVAC business with the gages to test the system, hiring that work done on a unit that old, it may be better to invest that money in a new unit.

Quote:
Now onto the gvwr, I'm not sure exactly what that means, Is the truck supposed to weigh at least that much? Or is that the max that the the camper can weigh? This is the first mid size truck I've owned and the only time I towed anything heavier than a bass boat was with a 3/4 ton dodge diesel so I didn't have to worry about a whole lot with it.
GVWR is Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. Your truck has one and so does the camper. That rating is the heaviest it can weigh in accordance with the manufacturer.

GVW is Gross Vehicle Weight. That is the loaded weight (actual weight) of the truck or camper. When the GVW is under or at the GVWR, the weight of the vehicle is still be OK. When the GVW exceeds the GVWR, then the vehicle is considered overweight to what the manufacture declared the max to be. Tires, suspension, brakes, etc. then start coming into play on which is the lowest rated design weak link item. And many times other then the manufacturer, you may never know.

Another weight rating is GCWR or Gross Combined Weight Rating. This is the rating of the truck on the max combined weight the truck is rated for pulling. You add the truck GVW and the camper GVW and that creates the combined weight. The engine, the transmission, the rear axle of the truck are rated to handle the GCWR limit under the conditions they tested it for. If you go over the rating, then the truck performance can suffer.

There is another part of the GCWR that is called "frontal area". This is the frontal area size of the trailer that is exposed to the wind. Depending on the manufacture, and the actual vehicle, some are rated at 50 sq feet or 60 sq feet. A trailer that exposes, 8 feet wide, 7.5 ft tall to the wind would be 8 x 7.5 = 60 sq. feet. When you go over that size, then towing performance can degrade even if you are under the GCWR.

The truck also has axle ratings. GAWR-FRT and GAWR-RR is Gross Axle Weight Rating Front or Rear. That means the max weight the front or rear axle of the truck can weigh before the weakest component is over design and safety factor limits the manufacture set for the vehicle.

This fine print is most times found in your truck owners manual, drivers door sticker or a towing guide for the year of your truck put out by the manufacturer.

And there is another rating in towing, the actual hitch that connects the trailer to the truck. That system needs to be under or equal to the weight of the trailer being towed.

There are times, these ratings conflict each other. Like truck GVWR and GAWR. The sum of the 2 axle ratings can be larger than the GVWR and often is by intention to give you some loading freedom of the truck. In this case, the GVWR trumps the axle ratings. All ratings need to be checked and be at or under to have a good towing setup per the manufacturer.

Then there is a towing recommendation number called, towing reserve capacity. This is not a manufacturer rating, but comes from experience in towing on how to help create a good towing setup. The more reserve you have, the more pleasurable towing can be when you encounter above average towing conditions. Like climbing steep hills, you want to accelerate faster, you want to keep up with traffic and still be at a safe/legal and good towing speed for example. Some folks use a factor of 20% reserve capacity above the vehicle tow rating.

We did not yet talk about "Tow Rating". Tow ratings vary between manufacture, but many times Tow Ratings are the GCWR - the curb weight (stripped down empty weight) of a tow vehicle with a 150# driver inside and all fluids in the system. This infamous Tow Rating has gotten more camper folks in trouble before not understanding it's real meaning. They often think, it is rated for a 5,000# trailer towing as an example? Yes, that is right, but all cargo in the truck, added options from the base model and the camper go against the rating. You keep subtracting cargo (people and stuff they add) in the truck, added options etc from the tow rating and what is left, is all you can tow. Best to use GCWR as the real pull rating.

I myself do not use the Tow Rating as who ever camps with an empty, non optioned truck and 1, 150# driver in it. I use the GCWR which is the real pull rating of the truck and try and get as much reserve as practical compared to that rating. Both the loaded truck and loaded camper weights combined to be approx 15% to 20% lower then the GCWR. Less reserve capacity will get you by depending where to tow. More is always better.

Quote:
Thanks for the info and patience with me im learning as I go. Rick
P.s. i thought i had some pictures uploaded and they said they uploaded just not anywhere i can find them, will try again though.
Rick,

This is the place to ask questions. We strive to be helpful, if there is something you do not understand, just ask. There are no dumb questions here on Sunline club. Only questions you need help with.

On your pics, this link will take you to help on how to post pics. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...ics-11235.html

You can also upload pics to a personal Sunline album here on the forum. And then link them into any post or reply you make. See here on how to create one. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...s-11235-2.html

Hope this helps

John
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Old 02-22-2020, 08:02 PM   #9
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SUN #11784
Basser is an unknown quantity at this point
My old new to me camper
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Old 02-22-2020, 08:19 PM   #10
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Hello John,
Excellent explanation on the towing rates and how they pertain to the different aspects, thank you. I will check out the gcwr on my truck tomorrow and report it back to you. I realize that it will only be an educated guess on percentage over/ under until I can get to a scale and get some real world #'s on weights but can probably guesstimate fairly close. We don't plan on carrying a whole lot of gear as it is a small space but weight can add up fast on the small things. I think I finally got some pics up thanks to your links. It still needs to be cleaned up and I'll hopefully get to that soon. I still have a few weeks before I'll be able to get the rest of the things I need on the camper anyway so no real big hurry on that. The wife and kids want to paint and update the curtains and cushions (I kinda like it the way it is but im sure I'll get overruled on that) lol. It's too bad I don't have the rest of the stuff ready cause we sure don't need ac right now even in central Florida.
Thanks again for all of your help. Rick
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Old 02-24-2020, 06:17 PM   #11
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SUN #11784
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Towing weights

Here is a pic of the sticker on the door jamb.
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Old 02-24-2020, 07:07 PM   #12
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Hey John.
Im so glad you gave me that link to the picture how to info.
So without physically weighing the truck these numbers do no good im guessing. I cannot find the gcwr anywhere (door jams or owners manual). I did find the curb weight online of 4480 so with a tongue weight of approx. 600lbs. Im at 5,080. And with fuel in the truck approx 160lbs. So if I am understanding this right that would leave me 760lbs for occupants and gear. Am i figuring this correctly? I realize that it is subject to change after i weigh it but is that basically how you figure it?
I cannot imagine a gcwr being less than tow rating which is 7,000lbs so im thinking that would be more in tolerances than my gvwr.
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Old 02-24-2020, 09:27 PM   #13
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Hi Rick,

See if this helps. https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam...do1stPrint.pdf

Go to page 253 in this 2016 Chevy Colorado owners manual. It lists the GCWR for the 2 engine and rear axles sizes. I'm not sure if this version manual matches yours. But you can find that same section in yours and see what the GCWR is.

If yours matches, and you say you have the 7,000# tow rating, that seems to align with a 3.6 L V6 and a 3.42 rear axle which gives a 12,000# GCWR

Your on the right track adding up to get the GCW to compare to the GCWR, but the curb weight may not have all the options your truck has.

Check your door sticker, it seems to be cut off in the pic. I had thought the newer trucks had a listing on the door sticker of what the cargo capacity that exact truck has shipped. I'm not seeing it on yours. And I'm not 100% sure what year they started that. It may only be a full size truck thing.

BUT, since you have a GM vehicle, there is an online shipping weight calculator that even give out axle weights. This is for dealers. They can tick off the options that the truck has to be ordered and the weigh calculator comes up with the shipping weight, and the axle split.

See here. https://www.gmfleetorderguide.com/NA...page=&butID=21

I pre-selected it to the Colorado. If you click "Weight Calculator" button then select all the options your truck has. At the end it gives you a print out. Take a picture of that print out and post. The only issue, it only has the last 4 years. So you can only get a 2018 truck weight. I'm not sure what the design differences are between the 2016 and the 2018. Not sure when the design year comes into play on that model. I use to be up on all the GM stuff, as I use to tow with them, but when they didn't offer a 1 ton, SRW crew cab short bed back in 2007, I had to switch to Ford. So I'm a little out of touch with the GM design years.

That is as close as we can get to a actual truck unloaded weight short of going to the truck scales. Or if you have a cargo capacity number on the door sticker.

While you may fit in the GVWR, you have to make sure the rear axle is OK. The rear axle often times on small trucks runs into capacity issues. I can help figure out what people and bed weight adds to what axle if we get to that.

This should get you started. Ask away on questions and or list the data and we can help check you did it right.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 02-25-2020, 11:02 PM   #14
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Yes, that is a 1985 F-1850.
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:12 AM   #15
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Thanks for confirming that it is definately a 1985, his paperwork was a little confusing.
So are these campers like old cars, better to keep it all original or does it really matter except to the hard core fans?
I haven't had time to do a lot of research on the weights yet except to look up those links you sent me, y'all are like geniuses on this stuff!!! I don't know how you know where to find all the info and to look at a pic and say for sure yep it's a 1985, can tell there's a lot of experience there and im happy to know I can get the correct answers to questions here.
On a different note I washed a few curtains last night and they seem to have held up good�� which makes me happy but my wife and daughter probably not so much lol.
I have been spending a lot of time trying to find a hunting lease in s.c. or ga. To no avail so I'll be getting back to working on the camper soon.
How have your project campers been coming along John, is it too cold to work on them there? Heck we've had some cold snaps here in Florida.
Hope yall have a great day,
Rick
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:13 PM   #16
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Hi Rick,

We have a whole club here of members with special talents. If it is Sunline info or most anything else to do with camping, towing, fixing, where to camp the list goes on, just ask.

My camper restoration habit, yes that goes on through the winter. Here is the one we are doing now. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...avy-17684.html

I acquired that camper a few years ago, took it apart to dry out and just made it back to working on this winter. It is well dried out by now... I have other ones in the drying stage for next winter...

Have fun in your new Sunny this year.

John
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Old 02-27-2020, 04:54 PM   #17
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Not sure how accurate it is but I used the decodethis website to look up the specs for the Expedition I recently acquired. The report includes a lot of measurements including towing related information. Just plug in the VIN.

https://www.decodethis.com/
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