Roof issue on prospective purchase

[Lakeview]

Hello,

First of all, it is great to have found this forum. We have owned a 2006 T 1950 for a few years, and are now considering the purchase of it's big brother; a 2006(?) 2753. The odd thing is that we know both of the owners of these units, and we found both of them within a few miles of our house in Maine.

Anyway, the 2753 we are looking at is in terrific shape, except for an issue with the roof. The owners (again, people we know) told us that a relative got on the roof last winter to shovel the snow, and it appears that they may have damaged the luan paneling in the left rear corner. There is a sag in the ceiling of the bedroom, and a "bowl" in the roof directly above it. I'm guessing this is not a "walk-on" roof. I can feel the trusses in the vicinity of the "bowl." It does not appear to be leaking (no water stains), but I can't be sure that it is not travelling into the walls. The rubber membrane appears to be intact. We really like the camper, but I've always been very leery of roof issues. I doubt the current owners are going to let me start tearing into it to investigate further. Is this something worth taking a chance on, or should I pass? I should note that the asking price is $5,400.

Thank you for any advice.

[JohnB]

Hi,

Welcome!

Pictures here help so we can see what you are looking at.

From your description, anyone "getting onto the roof" of a Sunline to shovel off the snow is a concern. They may just have not know the way these campers are built. Unless that camper was ordered with a custom walk on roof, then it was the standard Sunline "non direct walk on roof". Odds are high, since there is a bowl of something on the roof, it is does not have the walk on roof option.

If they walked all over the roof, it could of damaged the thick corrugate board nicknamed budboard, where ever they stepped between a rafter. This damage may not leak, at this point, but it can create a ponding water issue. Meaning a deep low spot that will not shed water off the roof and the water just sits there until it evaporates off. Long term this is a leak waiting to happen.

I helped a friend out last summer with a repair who bought the camper where the prior owner walked all over it, damaging the budboard in many places. This is a problem that will create long term issues if left unrepaired.

I have not made it to creating a post on what this damage looks like, but I do have pictures of it on my Flickr photo server. See here https://www.flickr.com/photos/camper...7720229012520/

And then there is this description

Originally Posted by Lakeview

snip..
The owners (again, people we know) told us that a relative got on the roof last winter to shovel the snow, and it appears that they may have damaged the luan paneling in the left rear corner. There is a sag in the ceiling of the bedroom, and a "bowl" in the roof directly above it. I'm guessing this is not a "walk-on" roof. I can feel the trusses in the vicinity of the "bowl." It does not appear to be leaking (no water stains), but I can't be sure that it is not travelling into the walls. The rubber membrane appears to be intact.

The "bowl" wording you are using, "sounds" like the broken budboard where the is no longer strength left in the budboard to hold up the membrane tight to shed water. Sort of like this pic from my friends camper


The sag in the ceiling, not sure how big the sag is, a small spot or a big area?

What you are describing is repairable. But, know going in practically speaking, you have to be able to do the repairs yourself or a friend/family member do them for you at very low to no cost for labor. Hiring this out is costly due to high number of labor hours. The material cost is are not that bad, but the labor hours are high. An RV dealership may tell you, the only way to fix this is a total new roof with decking. A new roof and redeck can be $5,000 to $6,000 on camper that long. Maybe even more with the inflation in materials assuming there is no water damage as that adds to it.

I'm not trying to scare you, but be open with you to help you know going into this deal what may come to be.

There is a way to inspect the camper for water trapped in the ceiling, walls, floor etc. and it is no destructive. I recommend anyone buying a used camper buy a non contact moisture meter and scan the camper for water damage. The meter see the damage hiding behind the wallboard or ceiling where it is not visible in the living space until the rot has advanced enough for years that the vinyl wall paper cracks and you can put your finger through it. And the owner may not have any idea there is a problem as they cannot see it. Campers do not leak like houses do. They are made very different.

See this post on where to buy and some on how to use the meter.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...per-17613.html

Hope this helps and feel free to ask away any more questions.

John

[JohnB]

If you want to post some pics to better show the problem areas,

There are 3 ways to add pics.

1. Upload pics to a specific post attaching them at the end of the post.

2. Linking them in from a public viewable web photo hosting service you have.

See here for 1 and 2 https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...html#post86041

3. You can upload pics to the forum in your own personal photo album. Then link them to anywhere in the text of a post. See here on how to create an album. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...html#post87945

If you still get stuck, let us know. Pic's go a long way in helping show things you are looking at.

Hope this helps

John[/QUOTE]

[Lakeview]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Hi,

Welcome!

Pictures here help so we can see what you are looking at.

From your description, anyone "getting onto the roof" of a Sunline to shovel off the snow is a concern. They may just have not know the way these campers are built. Unless that camper was ordered with a custom walk on roof, then it was the standard Sunline "non direct walk on roof". Odds are high, since there is a bowl of something on the roof, it is does not have the walk on roof option.

If they walked all over the roof, it could of damaged the thick corrugate board nicknamed budboard, where ever they stepped between a rafter. This damage may not leak, at this point, but it can create a ponding water issue. Meaning a deep low spot that will not shed water off the roof and the water just sits there until it evaporates off. Long term this is a leak waiting to happen.

I helped a friend out last summer with a repair who bought the camper where the prior owner walked all over it, damaging the budboard in many places. This is a problem that will create long term issues if left unrepaired.

I have not made it to creating a post on what this damage looks like, but I do have pictures of it on my Flickr photo server. See here https://www.flickr.com/photos/camper...7720229012520/

And then there is this description


The "bowl" wording you are using, "sounds" like the broken budboard where the is no longer strength left in the budboard to hold up the membrane tight to shed water. Sort of like this pic from my friends camper


The sag in the ceiling, not sure how big the sag is, a small spot or a big area?

What you are describing is repairable. But, know going in practically speaking, you have to be able to do the repairs yourself or a friend/family member do them for you at very low to no cost for labor. Hiring this out is costly due to high number of labor hours. The material cost is are not that bad, but the labor hours are high. An RV dealership may tell you, the only way to fix this is a total new roof with decking. A new roof and redeck can be $5,000 to $6,000 on camper that long. Maybe even more with the inflation in materials assuming there is no water damage as that adds to it.

I'm not trying to scare you, but be open with you to help you know going into this deal what may come to be.

There is a way to inspect the camper for water trapped in the ceiling, walls, floor etc. and it is no destructive. I recommend anyone buying a used camper buy a non contact moisture meter and scan the camper for water damage. The meter see the damage hiding behind the wallboard or ceiling where it is not visible in the living space until the rot has advanced enough for years that the vinyl wall paper cracks and you can put your finger through it. And the owner may not have any idea there is a problem as they cannot see it. Campers do not leak like houses do. They are made very different.

See this post on where to buy and some on how to use the meter.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...per-17613.html

Hope this helps and feel free to ask away any more questions.

John

Thank you so much John. I'm amazed at how helpful this forum is!
At this point, I have arrived at the same conclusion, and am leaning towards passing on this purchase - but haven't given up all hope yet. The damage seems to be limited to just the back 25% of the roof or less, and looks and feels quite a bit like what you have described and what I can see in your photos. I can actually feel the roof rafters through the rubber roof in a couple of spots. I'll see if I can get and post some photos from the unit I'm looking at for more confirmation.

The local RV dealer gave the current owner a quote of $10,000 to replace the entire roof, and apparently won't even consider a partial repair. We like the camper, but not that much. If I could get the camper cheap enough, I might be willing to take the chance and try to repair it myself - although that doesn't really appeal to me.

I also appreciate the advice on a moisture meter. I'll order one.

[Lakeview]

Originally Posted by Lakeview

Thank you so much John. I'm amazed at how helpful this forum is!
At this point, I have arrived at the same conclusion, and am leaning towards passing on this purchase - but haven't given up all hope yet. The damage seems to be limited to just the back 25% of the roof or less, and looks and feels quite a bit like what you have described and what I can see in your photos. I can actually feel the roof rafters through the rubber roof in a couple of spots. I'll see if I can get and post some photos from the unit I'm looking at for more confirmation.

The local RV dealer gave the current owner a quote of $10,000 to replace the entire roof, and apparently won't even consider a partial repair. We like the camper, but not that much. If I could get the camper cheap enough, I might be willing to take the chance and try to repair it myself - although that doesn't really appeal to me.

I also appreciate the advice on a moisture meter. I'll order one.

One more question John. If the issue is as we think it is, would it be possible to repair it from the inside? My thought is to remove the section of ceiling under the damaged area and install some sort of plywood material up under the rubber membrane, and then either re-install or replace the ceiling. If the rubber membrane is intact (as it seems), I would be nervous about peeling it back to to fix the underlying structural damage.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Lakeview

One more question John. If the issue is as we think it is, would it be possible to repair it from the inside? My thought is to remove the section of ceiling under the damaged area and install some sort of plywood material up under the rubber membrane, and then either re-install or replace the ceiling. If the rubber membrane is intact (as it seems), I would be nervous about peeling it back to to fix the underlying structural damage.

Hi,

If the ceiling board is still intact, meaning it is not cracked through with holes in it, and the white surface is still all good looking, it is just sagging, I would recommend "not" taking the ceiling down. The damage you will create tearing it out is very hard to blend the original look back in.

I have done several rear section repairs to damaged ceiling board from the outside in. The only time I take it apart on the inside is if the wall board or ceiling board is rotted so badly, there is no structure left and you can poke your finger through it.

See this post on how to repair ceiling or wall board that is still intact and looks OK on the inside, but was repaired on the outside. It is not all the repairs I have done, but the post helps show how this is done. And to save the wallboard. Many times, after using this repair method you never know there was any damage in this area.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...tml#post155103

Now to the dealing with the roof from the outside. If you have broken budboard, this needs to be dealt with from above. Once the roof is opened up, you then have to place new 1/8" luan etc onto the rafter and fasten it to the rafters. This creates support to allow the water to shed off and not pool in large spots. Trying to do this from the inside, you can't do a good job of lifting the budboard, figuring out how to insert the long 8 ft sheet of plywood, and then how to fasten it down from the top.

To lift up the back of the roof, this is what is involved. I'm going to estimate that you have to lift up the back 5 to 6 feet of the roof for talking purposes.

You remove the main awning off the camper. This is not hard to do with 2 people.

You unscrew the gutter rail molding on both side of the camper, about 8 to 10 feet down from the back to allow it to bend outward and give you working room.

You remove the rear wall to roof molding on the roof, all 8 feet if it off the roof.

The left and right corner molding, ideally you remove those 2 moldings entirely. They are know leak points due to aged failing putty tape seals. This will give you a chance to out new high quality butyl tape and reseal the entire corner for the future.

The membrane is stapled behind the gutter rail to the side of the camper. You pull out those staples.

The back of the roof membrane and the budboard can now be carefully rolled towards the front to expose the broken bud board. The attic is now wide open. You access the ceiling board damage. There are ways to repair the ceiling board even if there is a large almost cracked piece from the friends foot, "between the rafters. I can explain more if you want to go this route.

There is a reality when you lift up an old membrane, it will shrink a little, but this can be overcome. It takes a little effort, bout you can pull it back into place and put the roof back together.

Naturally there is a little more to it then that big picture explanation. But it give you what you are going to need to do, and if you are OK doing that. And, it will take time to do this. This is not a one weekend repair. More like many. many weekends if you are working during the week.

This link will take you to my Flick'r site where I was doing a semi short/longer term repair on one of my project campers. I never made it to a post with words, but the pics of the process it there. https://www.flickr.com/photos/camper...7669487695367/

I have to come back that camper in a few years, but we needed to use it, the entire back wall needs repair but I dried it out to stop the rotting. I have done similar to this on other friends campers in similar situations. Most dealers will not touch a repair like this, the labor hours will get real high and the camper is generally older where the repair is worth more then the cost of the camper. In my case, labor is real cheap, these campers are a labor of love. The materials are not that bad. This is all compared to the cost of a new camper which is very high and dealing with the issues of buying a new camper built in the last 2 years.

If you find your budboard damage is bad all over, this post can help so you can see what an entire re-roof will involve. This also deal with water damage on the front and rear walls. This was a good amount of work, but this camper, my son's, will now last him as long as he ever wants to use it. The rest of his life if wanted. This is the good thing about the Sunlines, once restored and kept up on from there forward, they will last as the owner now that they know how to seal the roof and the siding to no longer have leaks.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...avy-16834.html

Hope this helps and gives you a good idea what to expect.

John