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Old 04-29-2019, 06:47 AM   #1
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Roof replacement - plywood switch

After 20 years of faithful service, it's finally time to replace the rubber roof on my 1999 T-2670. I've kept up on the roof caulking, so there's never been any leak that I'm aware of, at least not noticeable on the inside; however, the black of the rubber roof is now showing through, especially in the area where the AC drips run out to the edges. Also, the rear of the AC is sagging a bit.

I spoke to a friend in the business about why my whole roof seems soft, despite no leaking, and he thinks this is a model that had Sunline's cardboard-like backing, instead of plywood. Years of snow weight, etc. stretch it out. He suggested if that backing were still solid, I should just apply a liquid coating since the rubber itself is not compromised. Otherwise, pull everything up, put down 3/8" plywood and new rubber.

I'm leaning towards the plywood/new rubber for a couple of reasons:
  1. The overall "softness" is concerning, especially since I live in an area that can get decent amounts of snow weight on the roof.
  2. The sagging A/C shroud is nearly hitting the rubber, if it drops further, it may rub/tear the roof. It seems like the rear support feet are falling between rafters, so plywood would solve the support issue.
  3. Having a sold plywood roof would make future caulking maintenance, roof cleaning, A/C service significantly easier.
  4. I would like to completely re-do the corner seam seals if I have to disturb them anyway. Some sections appear in worse shape than others as far as shifting, gaps opening, etc.

The biggest CON I can come up with, other than being more work, is the added weight, which being that high, could change the towing stability of the trailer, and obviously make it a somewhat heavier.

I'm looking for any feedback, suggestions, expertise, that any of you may have to offer.

Thanks!
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Old 04-29-2019, 10:50 PM   #2
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I have done the 3/8 plywood on a larger camper. T264SR model. That floor plan and the 8,600# GVWR and has the cargo capacity to allow the added weight. It is a beautiful roof and a direct walk on, it just weighs more.

I have recently just completed a T2363 (5,500# GVWR) and a T286SR (8,600# GVWR) using 3/16" exterior glue, AB faced flooring underlayment.

On the T2363 (a 24' 2" camper) it added 54 pounds more than the original Sunline roof. On the T286SR (a 29' 10" camper) it added 82 pounds more than the original. This solution was a good compromise from a weight verse strength ratio. It is still not a direct walk on roof, but it has a lot of upsides over the orignal roof.

If this interests you, I have lots of info and pics on it if wanted. Just ask.

Hope this helps

John

PS, when you redo the roof, consider doing an Eternabond roof seal taping over all the new sealants on the roof. Just wait 30 days for the Dicor sealants to gas off before the Eternabond. It will take some time and can be done in phases, but you can say goodbye to roof caulking going bad on you. More info on this too if wanted.

NOTE: Weights/camper lengths in red updated 5-2-19. See reply below.
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Old 04-30-2019, 06:14 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
I have done the 3/8 plywood on a larger camper. T264SR model. That floor plan and the 8,600# GVWR and has the cargo capacity to allow the added weight. It is a beautiful roof and a direct walk on, it just weighs more.

I have recently just completed a T2363 (5,500# GVWR) and a T286SR (8,600# GVWR) using 3/16" exterior glue, AB faced flooring underlayment.

On the T2363 (a 21 ft camper) it added 47 pounds more than the original Sunline roof. On the T286SR (a 30ft camper) it added 54 pounds more than the original. This solution was a good compromise from a weight verse strength ratio. It is still not a direct walk on roof, but it has a lot of upsides over the orignal roof.

If this interests you, I have lots of info and pics on it if wanted. Just ask.

Hope this helps

John

PS, when you redo the roof, consider doing an Eternabond roof seal taping over all the new sealants on the roof. Just wait 30 days for the Dicor sealants to gas off before the Eternabond. It will take some time and can be done in phases, but you can say goodbye to roof caulking going bad on you. More info on this too if wanted.
Thanks for the info. Those weight differentials were less than I was thinking it would be.

I'd gladly take any info and pics that you have. I know opinions on roof vary, so the more info I can process to make a good decision, the better.

Thanks!
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:02 PM   #4
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Hi John,

Are you selling the T-2363 by any chance?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
I have done the 3/8 plywood on a larger camper. T264SR model. That floor plan and the 8,600# GVWR and has the cargo capacity to allow the added weight. It is a beautiful roof and a direct walk on, it just weighs more.

I have recently just completed a T2363 (5,500# GVWR) and a T286SR (8,600# GVWR) using 3/16" exterior glue, AB faced flooring underlayment.

On the T2363 (a 21 ft camper) it added 47 pounds more than the original Sunline roof. On the T286SR (a 30ft camper) it added 54 pounds more than the original. This solution was a good compromise from a weight verse strength ratio. It is still not a direct walk on roof, but it has a lot of upsides over the orignal roof.

If this interests you, I have lots of info and pics on it if wanted. Just ask.

Hope this helps

John

PS, when you redo the roof, consider doing an Eternabond roof seal taping over all the new sealants on the roof. Just wait 30 days for the Dicor sealants to gas off before the Eternabond. It will take some time and can be done in phases, but you can say goodbye to roof caulking going bad on you. More info on this too if wanted.
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynpmoose View Post
Thanks for the info. Those weight differentials were less than I was thinking it would be.

I'd gladly take any info and pics that you have. I know opinions on roof vary, so the more info I can process to make a good decision, the better.

Thanks!
Hi,

I'll comment on the weights first, then a second reply on the decking pics etc.

Yes, the weight difference is something to understand. I never realized what made up the Sunline rubber roof system weights until I started weighing the parts that come off and then what you need to add to replace it. For sure, the Sunline rubber/budboard combination is a lot lighter compared to other brands using 7/16 or 1/2" OSB full walk on decking to bond the rubber too. But, there are other things that add weight with the Sunline roof that will come off in addition to the rubber/budboard combination.

See here on the T2363 (19’ 1” of roof decking, 24’ 2” length camper). This is with the rubber/budboard removed and what you will see.




Notice there is also a piece of 1/8" luan across the full width of back of the camper. It is about 20" wide. The left end is cut off as it was rotted there.

See all the added reinforcing pieces they have around most all roof penetrations. Most are squares about 24" of 1/8 luan around those areas. On the roof antenna, there is a square of 1/2" OSB. They have to stiffen up certain areas so the ponding effect will not happen as bad around those areas.

See the pile to the right of this pic. That pile is what will be removed when you convert to a sheeting substrate. The 2 x 3's in the pile is rotted wood that was removed during the restoration effort and not part of the roof weights.


And here is a 2007 T286SR (25 ft, 4.5” of roof decking, 29’ 10” length camper) with the rubber/budboard removed. The same added reinforcing pieces exist around certain roof areas. This same pile of reinforcing pieces seems to fit all the TT’s that have 3 roof vents and AC with the rubber roof.





Here is listing on the weights: You can maybe use some of this to determine what your roof may change by.

Roofing material weights:
1. Sunline rubber membrane glued to budboard : 0.29 lb/in. of running length of 8’ 2” wide material
2. Dicor 40 mil EPDM rubber material: 0.206 lb/in. of running length of 8’ 2” wide material
3. Integraply flooring substrate, 5.5mm (0.217" ) thick: 0.438 lb/in. of running length of 8’ wide sheet. Full 4 x 8 sheet weighs 21 lb.

2005 T2363 – Roof decking length 230” long, rubber roof membrane 236” long (the membrane overhangs both ends.

69 lb. - old rubber bonded to budboard (236" lg)
8 lb. - 1/2" OSB reinforcement boards removed.
18 lb. - 1/8" sheets of luan reinforcement.

95 lb. - Total original T2363 roof material weight

New roof using 0.217" thick Integraply underlayment plywood
101 lb. Integraply plywood, 230" length x 0.438 lb/in = 101
49 lb. Rubber membrane only. 236" length x Dicor 40 mil thk. 0.206 lb/in. = 49 lb

T2363: 150 lb. new roof weight

I made a typo in my first post, 150# new roof – 95# old roof = 55# gain for new roof.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2007 T286SR – Roof decking length 304.5” long, rubber roof membrane 310.5” long (the membrane overhangs both ends.

90 lb. - old rubber bonded to budboard (310.5" lg)
8 lb. - 1/2" OSB reinforcement boards removed.
18 lb. - 1/8" sheets of luan reinforcement.

116 lb. - Total original T286SR roof material weight

New roof using 0.217" thick Integraply underlayment plywood
134 lb. Integraply plywood, 304.5" length x 0.438 lb/in = 134 lb.
64 lb. Rubber membrane only. 310.5" length x Dicor 40 mil thk. 0.206 lb/in. = 64 lb

T286SR: 198 lb. new roof weight

I made a typo in my first post, 198# new roof – 116# old roof = 82# gain for new roof.

Hope this helps.

John
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Old 05-02-2019, 09:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apackoftwo View Post
Hi John,

Are you selling the T-2363 by any chance?
Hi Joan, no the T2363 is not for sale. Sorry. If one does come up, I will let you know.
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Old 05-02-2019, 10:01 PM   #7
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Here is some info on the decking I used.

For a full walk on roof with 3/8" BC plywood, see this post on a 2006 T264SR.(8,600# GVWR) Lots of pics of the entire process. It may help you. This floor plan and the camper cargo capacity allowed adding the walk on feature without losing too much of the cargo capacity to be a concer. A Winter Project - Roof Repair (Picture heavy)

With the last 2 campers I did, losing cargo capacity was a concern. The T2363 on a 5,500# GVWR chassis did not have a lot of of room to loose excess cargo capacity.

On the T286SR on a 8,600# GVWR chassis adding a lot of excess weight was a concern. This is close to a 30 ft camper and was already loaded to the limit.

Going with 1/8" luan on the entire roof was an option, just I did not like it being so thin. How to screw it down being one of the concerns. The head of the screw is more than the thickness of the board. I have used 1/8" luan before on spot repairs, just not an entire roof.

Going with a full 1/4" would be nice, still not full walk on but had a lot less screw issues. But it adds more weight. I went searching for 3/16" and finding true 3/16" is not easy to find. I never did find true 3/16". But I did find this Integraply 5.5 mm (0.217). They call is 1/4" nominal, but it is not. There is a thickness tolerance on it so call it a heavy 3/16" or a light 1/4". It fit the bill.

We have Menards lumber yards here and they handle it, IntegraPly. They use it as underlayment for floors. See here https://www.menards.com/main/buildin...329474&ipos=10

A cut sheet on the material. https://hw.menardc.com/main/items/me...structions.pdf

It is BC sanded, solid, exterior glue and cost effective. While they might not have this in your area, check for floor underlayment products.

Here are some pics of the 2005 T2363 during the install process. You may end up wasting an extra sheet just to get the joints to land on top of a truss in the middle. Oddly enough, the T2363 took 7 sheets to cover while the T286SR also took 7. The rafters are not on exact 16" centers. Some more like 18" and some 14". Floor plan and where vent holes and the roof AC unit sort of drive the odd rafter locations.

In this case, I started in the middle of the camper and worked towards the ends, just to deal with the sheet drops to reuse as I could.


Then I worked it towards the back


Then the front to complete it.


Every sheet had to be cut to width. There was no 48" wide piece on this floor plan.

This being a thin as it is, you have to really screw it down. The X's on the sheet help show the spacing.


And you have to countersink every hole before putting the screw in. If not, the flat head screw will crack the plywood and leave a humped up head. The plywood is made from hardwoods so it will not form flat like pine etc. Get 2 drill motors, countersink in one, cordless drill with a slip clutch in the other and go at it. Set the torque to be just right and just about every screw goes down flush. Use a sharp edge putty knife to feel for heads sticking up. You do not want to over countersink (to deep) either on purpose. Divets in the rubber will come as glue does not stick to the steel and the head being lower, leaves a little pock mark with no rubber support. It is still functional and not a concern, just I would not want to do all of them like that on purpose.



Ideally you want to get a countersink you can adjust the pilot bit depth and the countersink dept. I bought one with a carbide cutter on the countersink. It works sweet!


Here is the T2363 with the rubber on. I have not yet finished the rest of the roof. Doing that now.


Here is the T286SR. This one I could start at the back wall and work towards the front. The sheets came out that way. I still had to cut every sheet on the width, but it went well.


Working my way down towards the front


Almost done






And finished, on the roof that is


A consideration since you are doing a new roof, at least 1 month after the new Dicor sealant is on, up to about no more than 2 years, do an Eternabond tape upgrade over "all" the caulk. You will no longer have caulk failures. And to protect the roof and everything else up there, clean and treat the roof every 3 to 4 months it is exposed to the sun with 303 Aerospace UV protectant. It makes a real big difference in the longevity of the roof rubber, E bond, all the plastic up there and the Dicor. A few pics of the process.


The front seam during the process


The gutter rails, fully covered down to the bottom of the gutter. No exposed screws and no vinyl screw cover


If you want more on the Eternabond process let me know. I have a lot on it and what it helps prevent.

Hope this helps with your decision. Please consider doing a post with pic's on your roof project. They are really helpful for folks coming behind you. There is no one way to do this, the more ideas the better.

John
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Old 05-05-2019, 08:34 AM   #8
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Thanks John.

Sorry I didn't respond sooner but I had a heck of a time with the new log in until I realized I had to use my RV Park Reviews password. I think as I haven't logged out yet to see if I can log back in!

BTW superior work and post as usual


Quote:
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Hi Joan, no the T2363 is not for sale. Sorry. If one does come up, I will let you know.
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:49 PM   #9
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Wow John, I don't ever want to have to do an RV roof, but darn it, your pics make me wish that I could. That looks just plain awesome and CLEAN!
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:47 AM   #10
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Thank you so much for all of this. It is really, really helpful. I will certainly post up a thread once I can get this started. I have to work outside, so I need a find few consecutive days of clear weather.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:16 PM   #11
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You are very welcome. Glad it helped. If you need any input on the what and where to get the materials, let me know. Glad to pass on what I did if it would help.

Getting a few consecutive days of good weather, I have not yet found out how to order that up... The weather here in central OH is all over the place right now. Both in temperature and daily rain showers.
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Old 05-23-2019, 06:38 AM   #12
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Haha, yes the weather might prove to be difficult, especially if this takes longer than I think. When you had to work outside, did you just tarp it if needed?

My uncle has a large pole barn that I could probably work in, but it's about an hour and a quarter from me. It might be worth the drive in this case.
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynpmoose View Post
When you had to work outside, did you just tarp it if needed?

My uncle has a large pole barn that I could probably work in, but it's about an hour and a quarter from me. It might be worth the drive in this case.
Before my pole barn came in Aug. 2013, yes all work was outside when working on our any one of our Sunlines. (Nov. 2003 to Aug 2013)

The big blue tarp was the method when I had to deal with opening the camper to the elements.

I was in this blue tarp mode for about 5 to 6 weeks dealing with slide floor rot. Myself alone, only working weekends.


But doing a slide is a lot less intrusive than taking the roof off. There are a number of things you could do at your place in preparation for lifting the rubber. The AC unit, all the roof vents, the shower dome, all 4 corner moldings could come off beforehand. That is about 1 to 2 days work for only one person. The first time through it, maybe 2 to 3 days.

If you are towing it 1.5 hours, leave the front, rear and gutter moldings on as they hold the rubber down. Once the rubber comes up, then you have to cover the camper in some manner.

We have had members take the entire front of the camper apart and only use a tarp. Doing a whole roof, the tarp will still work, the magnitude of size is different.

When we did my sons roof job, I was still working and well, he is still working... So it was only weekends and we did this through the winter. But we were inside a non insulated pole barn. We had to not work a few weekends as doing work at 5F was not really doable. 25F and above was tolerable to an extent. It took the 2 of us using only weekends, about 3.5 months. And about 3 of those weekends we did not work. It was 268 work hours between us. But we had rot repair to do too. An entire rear wall and the front wall was off, so that made it longer to deal with the rot repair. Odds are favorable you may found some level of water damage you will deal with.

You can do it with a tarp, inside is for sure nicer. But if it is 1.5 hrs away for the barn, that is 3 hrs round trip and how many days are you going to do that? This is not going to be a fast job by yourself. If you have 3 to 4 helpers, and no rot repair, then it will go a lot quicker.

Hope this helps

John
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