Tow Vehicle Tire balancing problem, trailering stability.

[maynardjw]

Boots, I would doubt that OEM tires have less tread unless they're a different model as this would void the Government tire ratings and the shorter life would hurt future sales. I would think the manufacturers test different tires on the vehicles prior to coming to market to get the best ride for that particular vehicle. I'm sure running them at a lower pressure is standard practice on new vehicles as well. I personally like full pressure on the rears and just a couple pounds less on the front.
The most expensive thing you can do to your vehicle is cheap out on tires. Lets face it most people have no clue the importance of checking tires on a regular basis. I will admit when I removed my Michelins last year after 3 years and about half the tread gone how badly cracked they were in the grooves. It shocked me that a Michelins had degraded so badly. I won't be running out anytime soon to buy them again. Interestingly I put Sumitomo's on my Volvo 3 years ago for less than half what a Continental refit would cost and I love them. Quieter, great handling even in the snow and great tread life. I have put about 35k on them so far.

[RRS2670]

Originally Posted by Boots

I read somewhere that OEM tires do not have as much thread depth as replacement tires of the same brand in order to make the ride feel more stable on a new vehicle in order to increase new buyer satisfaction.
So, apparently replacement tires with greater tread depth can make the tire feel a bit more squirmy until the tread wears down a bit to a depth more like what is found on OEM tires.
It sounded reasonable at the time I read it that tread depth could indeed have an affect on how stable the tire would feel on the road and could cause a squirmy feel.

If tread depth on tires does indeed vary between OEM and replacement, I don't know, but I offer it here as part of the conversation to perhaps get some comments or opinions from those that might have insight on this.

I had to look this up since I never heard that before. But I did find several websites that mention that some manufacturers may have less tread to meet all of their tire performance requirements based on characteristics wanted for a specific type of vehicle. Most manufacturers are looking for a tire that performs well in most handling and fuel mileage categories, and meet cost requirements, but may suffer on how long they last. It seems like OEM tires typically last 30-50k miles which sounds about right, I got ~36k on my OEM tires but they weren't down all the way, only to 4/32's.

I didn't measure my OEM tread depth when new, but I don't think the tires got any better with age or mileage, as far as towing goes.

I think it's important to clarify a couple of points here, and this goes back to my original post on "New Truck, Sway Issues". For this discussion, we will assume that all the truck weight distribution, tongue weight, and axle weights are all adjusted properly and good. I just brought up the Road Force Balancing Issue, because I wasn't familiar with it, and thought my situation with the Continental tires was odd, just sharing my experience. But the squirmy or tire waggle issues we are talking about can be one of 2 things. In my original thread there was discussions about side wall softness or weakness, that may cause a squirmy feeling. In this thread, it seems the treads themselves may cause a similar uneasy squirmy feeling.

My OEM Bridgestone's I thought had kind of a soft side wall for better ride comfort, the new Continentals are extra load range tires that are advertised to have stronger walls for towing, that's why I bought them. I measured my tread depth of the Continentals, they are 12/32", not sure if that's more or less than the OEM. So at this point, I don't have a good answer about real tread depth measurement comparisons, or if the sidewall or tread is the main culprit in the unstable feeling I was getting from the old tires. Hopefully I'll find out how well the truck trailering goes with the new tires in a month or so on their 1st trip.

I see this is your 1st post, welcome. Do you own a Sunline trailer, if so, you might want to introduce yourself and tell about your trailer and tow vehicle setup.

[RRS2670]

Originally Posted by maynardjw

Boots, I would doubt that OEM tires have less tread unless they're a different model as this would void the Government tire ratings and the shorter life would hurt future sales. I would think the manufacturers test different tires on the vehicles prior to coming to market to get the best ride for that particular vehicle. I'm sure running them at a lower pressure is standard practice on new vehicles as well. I personally like full pressure on the rears and just a couple pounds less on the front.
The most expensive thing you can do to your vehicle is cheap out on tires. Lets face it most people have no clue the importance of checking tires on a regular basis. I will admit when I removed my Michelins last year after 3 years and about half the tread gone how badly cracked they were in the grooves. It shocked me that a Michelins had degraded so badly. I won't be running out anytime soon to buy them again. Interestingly I put Sumitomo's on my Volvo 3 years ago for less than half what a Continental refit would cost and I love them. Quieter, great handling even in the snow and great tread life. I have put about 35k on them so far.

I looked up what Boots was saying, in the previous post, it seems that OEM in some cases can have less tread depth to meet the OEM requirements. Vehicle Manufacturers don't just test available tire manufacturer tire offerings, they actually spend a lot of time and money to come up with tire designs for different vehicles. I found this website, it doesn't talk about tread depth, but the Spider graph shows how OEM tries to meet different requirements for different vehicles. The author is a former vehicle dynamics performance engineer for FIAT Chrysler, it's interesting how much detail goes into OEM tire performance.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...acement-tires/

I saw a Goodyear article stating that their OEM tire is not the same as a tire you get from a tire shop even with the same model type and size, it's different. Supposedly there is some identification for OEM tires molded in the tire.
One thing you may consider about running the tires at the max pressure on the tire, it may wear out a lot sooner because it may be designed for a much higher load. The Placard ratings on the vehicle typically are rated for the loaded requirements of that vehicle, not solely for comfort purposes.

Tireman9, a retired tire design engineering may correct me if I'm wrong, but he doesn't come here often. Here is his website if you want no more about tires, although this website is geared for RV trailer and tow vehicles, most things I would think apply to other vehicles also.
https://www.rvtiresafety.net/

[maynardjw]

Hello and thank you for the welcome and let me give you a little about myself. I own a 2005 2499 and tow with a 2014 Expedition Limited with trailer package and a weight distribution hitch with sway. I actually own 6 trailers from a 4 x 6 cargo up to the 2499. I have been an independent equipment representative for decades. I am also factory trained by Hunter Engineering in HD truck alignment and balancing equipment. As I am towing something pretty much every week I am very meticulous when it comes to towing larger trailers. I check my tongue weight, check my tire pressure and do a visual on how my trailer is sitting before going on the road. My electronic brakes are adjusted before getting on the highway.
As I spend a lot of time on the road I cannot believe what I see being towed. Clueless people that are probably the first to write a bad review when they blow out their tires from improper balance of trailer weight. There should be some type of exam for people to tow larger trailers.
I am surprised to hear that manufacturers use brand tires with less tread but nowadays it's all about delivering a vehicle that meets fuel mileage requirements so every bit helps.

[maynardjw]

Thanks for posting the link to the truth about cars. Quite interesting but I will disagree with his point about sticking with OEM tires. Both my 2008 and 14 Expeditions came with Pirelli Scorpion tires. Great ride and dry handling but they were the scariest tires I have ever driven. Hitting puddles on the side of the highway almost caused me to lose control a lot. Always pulled towards the medium barrier when hitting a puddle. Not even a large one. They sucked in the snow as well. Dumped them when I bought my used 14 Expedtion at 19k. They only last 20-25k anyways.

[RRS2670]

I agree, the OEM Bridgestone Duelers tires were good on dry pavement. They were quiet and comfortable, probably met the Fuel conserving requirement, but were terrible in wet and snow conditions. I was disappointed in how long they lasted. I wanted tires more suited for trailering and better wet traction, so I got new tires a little earlier than I would have had to. Besides the fact that I think OEM tires from a dealer are more expensive than going to a tire dealer.

[maynardjw]

I tried a set of Bridgestone Duelers on my 08 Expedition and I agree. I don't recall them having as bad an issue as the Pirelli's in wet conditions but the life and ride quality went downhill quickly. I used to replace tires every year so I tried a few brands before the Firestone Designations. I have had 4 or 5 sets and love them. The only issue I have had is with the bad ones I got with the Designation II's last year but now that has been resolved the ride is awesome. Strong sidewall construction, low noise and no flats. Pirelli were nail eaters.