No power

Buffalo_Tom · 06-27-2022, 03:36 PM

Hi, we have a 2003 Sunline Solaris 19’ and have no power. The converter has been tested and all the components are working properly. When plugged into land power there’s no power getting to the trailer. At first we were popping the GFI on the land outlet until we turned off the water heater. Now when we plug in, the GFI doesn’t pop, but there’s no power.
Also, does anyone have a circuit/wiring diagram for the unit?
Thank you very much for your help!!

**JohnB** · 06-27-2022, 05:35 PM

Welcome Tom!

To your question on a wiring diagram, we only have one from Sunline, it is for a 2004 T2499, but a lot if it will apply to your 2003 Sunline.

See here in our files section for a download of the diagram. You have to be logged in to get the file. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/d...do=file&id=357

What is the model number of your camper? You said 2003 19', H'mm, not sure where you measured the 19' from, the camper box or the ball coupler to the rear bumper which is the way Sunline rated the length. The shortest camper in 2003 was a T1950 at 20' 4" ball to bumper. If we know the model we may be able to help better.

But, there are a few things that stand out.

1. You said you trip the land GFIC until you turned off the water heater. OK that is a side topic we need to come back to.

2. You said now, the GFI does not trip but there is no power in the camper, a few questions to maybe help as we need more info.

When you say no power, do you mean 12 VDC power from the battery or 120 VAC power from the land source? If you have a battery installed, you should have 12 volt lights working unless the battery is dead or there is an issue in the 12 VDC supply line.

If you are not getting 120 VAC, a few simple questions just to ask, you may be past all this but we don't know.

3. Did you verify that the GFI outlet at the land source has power coming out of it "before" you plug in the camper? Sometimes, GFI's fail and will not pass power, need to make sure yours is working.

4. In the power converter there is a 30 amp main circuit breaker, it that tripped?

5. Just asking, how do you know there is no power in the camper? It may be that a separate circuit is tripped but you can see the 20 and 15 amp breakers being tripped if they are. If the display on the microwave is working, then that circuit is alive, or it's dead too.

6. Is the camper new to you and this is the first time you are trying to get it to work, OR you had the camper a long time, everything worked and now it does not? It helps to know if the camper used to work or you just inherited the problem.

We need some more to go on to help better. Give us some more detail as you know it so we can help suggest better places to look.

Hope this helps

John

Buffalo_Tom · 06-28-2022, 06:59 AM

Hi John,
The trailer model #T1950, the converter is MODEL #CS6000, Centurian 3000 (TM) MFG. by: Velocitech LLC., is there a circuit diagram available?
We have owned the trailer and had no problems for 4 years.
We will go over everything in your response and post more details.
Thank you very much for your assistance!
Tom

Buffalo_Tom · 07-02-2022, 01:59 PM

Hi John,
We charged the battery and connected it to the trailer, the lights worked and radio display came on.
Then we connected to land power with all breakers off. We then switched the main breaker and microwave breakers on, and the microwave display came on.
Then we switched on the AC breaker and when we turned on the AC the GFI on the land outlet kicked off. We tried this multiple times with the same result.
We hope this helps you to help us!
Thank you very much!
Tom

krazedave · 07-02-2022, 05:11 PM

Do you know the amperage of your land outlet? If it is 15amp or 20 amp that maybe the problem. The A/C on startup will draw around 18 or more amps.

mainah · 07-02-2022, 05:59 PM

The AC is the 20 amp breaker the outlets etc are on the 15 amp breaker. There may also be a main breaker at 30 amps. Solving a GFI trip can be tedious the age of the GFI can play into it also. They are cheap if the house one is old replace it and see what happens. Generally GFI are rated 20 amps but some old ones only 15 too little for an AC unit.

**JohnB** · 07-02-2022, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo_Tom

Hi John,
We charged the battery and connected it to the trailer, the lights worked and radio display came on.
Then we connected to land power with all breakers off. We then switched the main breaker and microwave breakers on, and the microwave display came on.
Then we switched on the AC breaker and when we turned on the AC the GFI on the land outlet kicked off. We tried this multiple times with the same result.
We hope this helps you to help us!
Thank you very much!
Tom

Hi Tom,

You are gaining.

At least the main breaker and the microwave checked out OK.

On the AC unit breaker trip, did you try and run the AC unit OR just flip the breaker on and it trips the GFI instantly with not having the AC turned on?

The others are correct, you cannot "run" the AC unit on a 15 amp circuit and the GFI can trip trying to start the AC,

BUT, if the thermostat is turned "off" so it is "not" trying to start the AC and just flip the AC 20 amp breaker on and it trips the GFI, that is a different problem. We need to get this clarified as if it trips just turning the breaker on with the AC off, that issue needs to be addressed.

On the water heater, you said that trips the GFI also, first, the heater has to have water in it before you turn on the 120 VAC electric to it to not burn out the element. BUT, again we need to understand was the water heater turned "on" electric at the tank panel when turned the breaker on and then the GFI tripped? Here again, we need to know if the heater was "off" or "on" electric when you did this turn on the breaker test.

If the water heater was off at the tank panel, you flip the 15 amp breaker on in the camper, and you get a GFI fault instantly that is a problem something is not right.

Please clarify if the AC Tstat was on or off and the water heater when all this GFI tripping was going on.

Hope this helps

John

Buffalo_Tom · 07-04-2022, 12:23 PM

Hello John,
We connected the battery and plugged the trailer into our generator and the lights work, the microwave display is on and the AC works. All the breakers stayed on even when running the AC.
We kept the water heater breaker off because we're certain that the water tank needs replacing.
Could it be that the water heater is the entire problem?
We are very appreciative of everyone's help!
Thanks again.
Tom

krazedave · 07-04-2022, 01:24 PM

If you can run the A/C off the generator but not when plugged into your land outlet that leads me to believe your land outlet needs replaced and check to make sure it is a 20 Amp line going to it.

mainah · 07-04-2022, 03:16 PM

Turn the WH on you won't get into any trouble for a short test you'll be right there any way. Now a GFI is a ground fault device the generator relays on a house ground they have no earth ground all to them self's that's were it gets a bit interesting. I'm still betting on a house GFI because of age.

**JohnB** · 07-04-2022, 07:12 PM

Hi Tom,

Can you confirm, when your did the house test where the camper was powered up, the main 30 amp breaker was on, the breaker for the microwave was turned on, the microwave display was on and so far, no GFI trip. All was good until:

The 20 amp breaker for the AC unit was turned on, (now a piece of missing info we need) and then the house GFI tripped instantly.

We need the piece of missing info. Which of the 3 below is the missing info: (or your have a 4th option if that is what happened)

Option 1: Before turning on the AC breaker, the AC unit switch up in the ceiling was turned "on" to run, either fan only or fan and the compressor.

Option 2: The AC unit controls were "off", you turned on the AC breaker , no GFI trip yet, then you turned "on" the AC unit and the GFI tripped.

Option 3: The AC unit controls were "off", you turned on the AC breaker and instantly the GFI tripped.

We really need to know the above info. Please let us know.

Using the generator to run the camper and AC unit is a good test. It adds to the info, it tells is the compressor and the fan are operational, a good thing.

BUT, there is no GFI involved when hooked to the generator or when in a camp ground on a 30 amp power outlet.

Hope this helps

John

Buffalo_Tom · 07-05-2022, 03:30 AM

Hi John,
It's your option #2.
When we plugged the trailer into the house GFI all the breakers in the trailer were off. Then one by one we turned on the breakers, first the main 30 Amp, then the microwave, then the AC and everything was fine until we turned the AC unit on. The GFI on the land outlet tripped immediately after we switched on the AC unit.
When we plugged the trailer into our generator everything worked with the exception of the water heater, we did not switch that breaker on.
Also, how do I check to see if the converter is charging the battery?
Additionally, we want to replace our 6 gallon water heater with a tankless unit, do you have any recommendations?
Thank you very very much!
Tom

mainah · 07-05-2022, 06:18 AM

Does you generator have a GFI built in? While you are standing there turn on the water heater if there is a ground fault it will trip before it damages any thing any way. To test your battery charging system you will need a voltmeter they are cheap at most hardware store you don't need a $150 Fluke a little $20 will work fine. (good thing to live in a camper any way) A full charged lead battery resting voltage is 12.8 volts (there is a little + - but not much) Plug the camper in the voltage should climb to the 13+ range maybe a little more depending on the state of charge the battery has.

**JohnB** · 07-05-2022, 09:02 AM

Hi Tom,

From your description, it points to the GFI outlet in the house. They do go bad and the older ones where more finicky then a new one.

And, you need a full 20 amp fused outlet on a good heavy cord (30 amp if you are using an extension (not too long) to run the AC unit. And not much else in the camper is on. If there is anything in the house on that same outlet circuit, and it is on, it will not allow all 20 amps to be available.

The power converter, your 2003 T1950 had either the Centurion or the American enterprises power converter unless something changed along the way. American Enterprises bought out Centurion when they went out of business. It would depend on the date/time frame in 2002 or 2003 when your camper was built.

As mainah said, you need a volt meter of any kind that can read 12 VDC. Plug in the shore power, make sure the camper has power and the breakers are on, (not the water heater or the AC) then put the meter on the battery posts. If it is not reading 13 volts or above, it is not working. The American converter had two charge modes, float at 13.25 volts and standard charge at 13.65 volts. If you get anything in the 12 volt range, when you are plugged in, the power converter has some issues.

I have a 2004 T1950 and it had the CX6000 American in it. The camper was built in Sept 2003. I had to change my power converter as it started to act up, and not be reliable. I upgraded to a Progressive Dynamics deck mount and used the same American fuse blocks and circuit breakers. If you find yours is dead, and you want pics of my upgrade, let me know. I'll get them loaded up on my photo server.

On the water heater, I have not been into installing a tankless heaters for a camper so I cannot recommend one. There are pro's and con's to them. I have however, this spring installed one of the new Dometic/Atwood tank types that replaces the older Atwood's on a 2007 Sunline. I have pics etc. of that install and where I bought it from. I bought two actually $360 ea shipped, made in USA shockingly. The prices were all over the map, from $360 to $900 for the same heater...

If you go with either the tankless or the new Dometic, you are going to have to deal with piping changes. And maybe hole in the camper changes. The new Dometic does fit in the hole in the side of the camper, but you have to do a little wood work as it is now square and not rectangular. They sell a door kit to adapted from the old size to the new size. If you want info on the new Dometic tank type, let me know, I have pics and all.

The older Atwood entire heater as a drop in and go, is just about non existent to find a new one. Dometic stopped making them and the only ones left are at a dealer buried in their storeroom, if you can find one even. And while some tanks might be available for the older Atwood, they wanted $350 just for a new tank.

Hope this helps

John

mainah · 07-05-2022, 09:34 AM

Be advised an eclectic tankless draws a lot of current more than your camper wiring is capable of. It pretty max out the 30 amp.

Buffalo_Tom · 07-05-2022, 01:13 PM

John & mainah,
I will test the voltage at the battery tonight.
It sounds like the upgrade to a tankless water heater isn't as simple and straightforward as I thought, and will have to do some more investigating.
Thank you very much!
Tom

Buffalo_Tom · 07-05-2022, 07:27 PM

Hello mainah,
The Furrion 2.4GPM Tankless RV Gas Water Heater, is rated at DC 12v/3a and has a 10 Amp fuse requirement.
It appears to me that it should not be a problem, is there something that I'm missing?
Thanks again,
Tom

**JohnB** · 07-05-2022, 08:01 PM

A few things on the tankless, I'm not really up on these but did some digging.

https://flairdistribution.com/collec...temp-on-demand

https://furrion.com/collections/wate...s-water-heater

https://www.recpro.com/rv-tankless-w...-water-heater/

The RV tankless, or at least these 3 above, use propane as the high energy source and 12 VDC controls. There is no 120 VAC option. Meaning no free hot water at an electric campsite you paid for.

Something that stuck out, in order to get water hot that quick, it takes a lot of energy to do that. Two of the heaters are in the 60 to 65,000 btu/hr ratings, the other in the 40,000 btu/hr range.

To compare it to something in the camper now, the T1950 has a 21,000 BTU/hr furnace, it creates 21,000 BTU's/hr of heat when it runs. The 60K tankless units use about 3 times more LP gas then the furnace when they run.

The Atwood tank style water heater on LP gas, is rated as a 10,000 BTU/hr unit. Or 6 times smaller LP gas when it runs then the tankless, but it takes 20 minutes to warm up.

The 60,000 BTU rating is more about understand where all the energy has to come from to heat water that fast. Both the tankless and the tank type might come out to use the same amount (total volume) of LP gas or close to it. It is just the rates of use when they run that is very different.

Something to dig into further is, how the tankless works and the minimal water flow ratings. The Greystone lists out it needs 2.8 L/min of water flow to ignite the gas burner. 2.9 L/min is 0.74 gallons per minute (GPM). I think the RV faucet is restricted to a max of 2 gpm. This may mean the water has to be flowing at about 37% steady of full faucet flow before the heater will start to heat. I really do not know for sure, but it would make sense water has to be flowing through the unit to not overheat it, so it may have a flow meter as a safety feature so the burner may not kick in until the flow is enough.

This makes me realize, that pending the type of camping you do, you need to sort out a few things before going to tankless. We boondock a lot using the onboard fresh water tank. And we have become water mizers so the fresh tank lasts longer. If we have to run the water to allow hot water to start, that might be using more water then we do now. We do navy type showers to conserve water. I added an on/off valve on the sprayer head, mix the hot and cold then use water to wet yourself, shut it off. Soap up, then turn the water on for a quick rinse off. This is 2 bursts of water. Not sure how the tankless works out in this situation.

If you are on full hookup, and that is the camping you do, then letting the water run to drain to heat it, is as much of a problem. Running to drain to heat can be an issue when boondocking pending how the tankless water heater needs to work.

Again, I'm not sure about all this but for sure, something to think though.

Hope this helps.

John

mainah · 07-06-2022, 07:58 AM

Yes because it is gas fired the low current runs the control system. Depending on how long you shower is a factor it's not real hard to run out of hot water with the stock system but it recovers pretty quickly.