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Old 11-12-2016, 09:33 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by johnnybgood View Post
What's your procedure for polishing that aluminum? It looks great.

A little trick to stop the paint from bleeding under your painters tape is to smear some paintable caulk along the tape edge then wipe it all off, let it dry, then paint.
It's just polished with Mother's aluminum polish by hand there. Still left a little oxidation. Needs some machine help to remove the rest.

Good tip though, thanks!

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Hey Jon,
If you have a steady hand, get a thin artist's brush with some white paint and run along the edges of the stripes to cover the bleed through areas.
Rich
I think it's decently steady, but I do seem to have a problem of my hand falling asleep...a problem I didn't have 10 years ago...

My dad was over today and since he had been wanting to work on these doors from the get go, I let him at it. He masked and resprayed the white and touched up the color, then clear coated. Looks better than my better attempt! He wants to spray the inlay stripes too, but probably in the spring. Borderline too cold to paint here now. As it is, everything today except the actual spraying was done in the heated garage.

Cleaned the roof yesterday, it's coming cleaner than I thought. Of course I broke the TV antenna crank, and bumped into a tank vent cap and cracked it off. Bought all of those parts new today, and will paint all of them tomorrow before installing to give them UV protection. I've always had bad luck with those vent caps, they seem to be a type of plastic not suitable for direct sun. Roof vent covers seem good yet, and the NLA refrigerator vent cover cleaned up really nice, so no need to replace that either.
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Old 11-13-2016, 06:40 PM   #22
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Hi Jon,

Looking really good.

On the paint for the fiberglass doors/rock guard, did you use the Fusion paint for plastics? Have you used this before and it hold up OK?

My entry doors are in a mid yellowing tint and thinking I need to do something to them.

The plastics on campers has evolved a lot over the years. My cargo doors and fridge vent covers as still as white as new. I know some of the older campers the fridge vent would get real yellow. Seems Dometic fixed that issue on mine.

The silly outdoor 120 volt receptacle cover goes into yellowing real quick and the vinyl inserts in the windows. The window inserts, Jayco seemed to find a brand that does not yellow like the Sunline ones. I have a few friends with the Jayco's and those window inserts as still bright white.

Thanks

John
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Old 11-13-2016, 10:49 PM   #23
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Hi Jon,

Looking really good.

On the paint for the fiberglass doors/rock guard, did you use the Fusion paint for plastics? Have you used this before and it hold up OK?

My entry doors are in a mid yellowing tint and thinking I need to do something to them.

The plastics on campers has evolved a lot over the years. My cargo doors and fridge vent covers as still as white as new. I know some of the older campers the fridge vent would get real yellow. Seems Dometic fixed that issue on mine.

The silly outdoor 120 volt receptacle cover goes into yellowing real quick and the vinyl inserts in the windows. The window inserts, Jayco seemed to find a brand that does not yellow like the Sunline ones. I have a few friends with the Jayco's and those window inserts as still bright white.

Thanks

John
Thanks John. Yes, Krylon Fusion on pretty much everything so far. I've been collecting cans of it in a Group 27 battery box and its full... The only time I've really used it before was on trailers I flipped, so I can't comment on long term. I was never happy with the initial results because it always sprayed very blotchy, but...

I did some research on using Fusion this time, and found Google recommending to prep all plastic with a paint thinner bath first. I've done this to every item I've painted, and the results don't compare to my past experiences at all. I did go over each item with a dry paper towel after and wipe off the residual paint thinner before painting.

Like restoring a car, the results show when you take things apart and detail each item. For example, the refrigerator panel. I removed the panel, removed the twist locks, and prepped it for paint. Utility lights, I removed the lens, popped out the switch, and taped everything off. The results look much more professional as a result.

The worst two things painted so far are the door stopper cups and the LP cover. The LP cover's texture made it difficult, perhaps I need to do another couple coats now that it's good and dry. The door cups were a little weathered/chalky on top, and I couldn't easily sand due to the text on them. I prepped them, but no matter what, that part soaked in paint or it would run, and good coverage was impossible. They don't look that bad unless looking right at them close. Same with the LP cover, it doesn't really look that bad. The rock guard was a little tricky because the fiberglass was a little weathered, but the storage doors that were just yellow and not weathered came out perfect. Rock guard just has more coats than I planned, and it was necessary to get the color coverage to cover the dark spots. Fusion is a very thin paint to work with.

Like I said in the other thread, I'm trying to find reasons not to paint things. Parts that are a little yellowed but not significantly UV damaged, I'm painting and often clear coating too. Door stoppers, just wire wheeled those and clear coated them since they weren't rusty. New parts too. I bumped into a tank vent when washing the roof this weekend and broke it, and found the other was broken too. Picked up some replacements, and painted/cleared them with the same method. I figured, this is as good a time as any to protect them.



I haven't paid attention much with newer trailers, but I'm glad to hear plastics seem to be improving. I've seen a lot of brands go with black trim I assumed for this reason. The hard part for me is that some of the parts are changing some too. Refrigerator vents and water heater doors are good examples. The new ones have a Dometic/Atwood logo molded/stamped into them now, so replacing with an original part isn't possible and restoring is the only option. When I did the doors on this trailer, the original window frames were cracked in the corners and leaking. I bought new, only available in black/black, so since I decided to paint the inside white to match original, I painted the outside with black Fusion as well. Very glad I did, as they look awesome now, and will hold up to the elements much better.

I also painted a door handle with Fusion. I prepped and pained the front one with regular black paint, but it was too thick and didn't look right at all. So I did the second with Fusion, since it says it works on many surfaces. I'm very pleased with the results, looks like a new handle. I'll be redoing the other when I get time.

That's interesting about the outside receptacle cover. Mine on the '07 is good yet, but this one (and all the '90s ones I've had) turned very rough and chalky, and kinda gray. I bought a new one for this and will paint it too before installing.
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Old 11-14-2016, 05:00 AM   #24
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I remember when I had my 92 Solaris, thinking how clean and new the later Sunlines looked with their white window frames. I thought the black frames made mine look rather dated. So now, my current Sunline has the "new" look, but the new look has gone to black window frames, tan and brown siding and even black trim everywhere.

I still do like the look of the last Sunlines with plenty of clean white (which is now probably becoming a classic look), but it makes me think how interesting it is that RV manufacturers have followed the fashion trend like everyone else. They keep changing the styling to make anything more than a few years old look well, old. This leads to "camper envy" at the RV shows and in the campgrounds which motivates many to move up to the latest and the greatest which keeps new RV sales up.

Well, I'll wait a few more years and what's new now will also look old, because I'm sure there are new styles on the drawing boards now that will oddly enough, outdo what's already out there.

Auto manufacturers I think, invented this tactic and just when I thought a particular style was the pinnacle of design, it got outdone (I always loved the 65 Buick Riviera and quite honestly still do, but it would never sell next to a new Buick today).

Anyway, just my thoughts on colors for RV trim.
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:11 PM   #25
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Agreed Rich. Honestly, I'm surprised the white theme lasted as long as it did. I guess the white does help with keeping it cooler. It goes to show how the industry is stuck on the bottom line and innovation really isn't much of a priority, especially with a recession.
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Old 11-14-2016, 03:49 PM   #26
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The black is less prone to UV degradation than white. Not that it won't happen, just takes longer. Also, plastic life is also dependent on whether the plastic has (and to what degree) UV inhibitors in the formula.
The design "fashion" maybe going hand-n-hand with an engineering change also.
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Old 11-15-2016, 04:47 AM   #27
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Just curious, what color is the rubber roof on today's RV's?
Rich
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Old 11-15-2016, 05:36 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcrt View Post
Just curious, what color is the rubber roof on today's RV's?
Rich
The market is changing. EPDM roofs are not as common now. At least one roofing manufacturer (Alpha) no longer offers it. But I've never seen EPDM in anything but white. As far I as I can remember, all the Sunlines with rubber roofs were EPDM. Jon may have a better handle on that.

TPO (thermoplastic olefin) is now the latest and greatest, available from Dicor in EPDM/TPO combination or TPO only. TPO roofing is available in white, gray, tan, and ivory and is supposedly compatible with all existing Dicor maintenance products.

I grazed through some RV manufacturer's websites looking for roof pics, but they don't seem to want to show that part of their products. But it seems reasonable that if colors are available, the RV builders will use them. I would point out that the Dicor choices are all light colors suggesting that they are still making the roofing to absorb as little sunlight and heat as possible.
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Old 11-15-2016, 06:33 AM   #29
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Quote:
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The market is changing. EPDM roofs are not as common now. At least one roofing manufacturer (Alpha) no longer offers it. But I've never seen EPDM in anything but white. As far I as I can remember, all the Sunlines with rubber roofs were EPDM. Jon may have a better handle on that.

TPO (thermoplastic olefin) is now the latest and greatest, available from Dicor in EPDM/TPO combination or TPO only. TPO roofing is available in white, gray, tan, and ivory and is supposedly compatible with all existing Dicor maintenance products.

I grazed through some RV manufacturer's websites looking for roof pics, but they don't seem to want to show that part of their products. But it seems reasonable that if colors are available, the RV builders will use them. I would point out that the Dicor choices are all light colors suggesting that they are still making the roofing to absorb as little sunlight and heat as possible.
The heat absorption was what I was wondering about, what with the siding being darker these days, I wondered if they still used light colors on the roof where the most heat would be absorbed when you'd least want it-during the camping season.
Thanks for the information Steve.
Rich
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Old 11-15-2016, 02:12 PM   #30
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Jon may have a better handle on that.
They were all EPDM as far as I know, unless something was done custom. Carl's Eclipse may have had something different.
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Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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Old 11-15-2016, 07:00 PM   #31
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To Sunline Fan,

Jon thanks for the detail on the Fusion painting. Prior to retiring...Yeh.. I had to install a plasma surface treatment system to clean virgin plastic right after it came out of the injection mold before we could apply a sticker to the plastic. Many plastics do not like things to stick to them. Glues, paint or other forms of bonding agents have trouble adhering. The issue is the surface energy of the plastic is too low so nothing sticks.

The automotive manufactures finally figured this out on how to treat plastic car parts and have paint stick to it. Those who had early days GM Jimmy's that had painted plastic trim behind the bumper know very well how paint flakes off after a few years. They did not treat the plastic correctly before application.

The are 3 main way of surface treating plastics, flame, cornoa or plasma. And in that order each costs more in the equipment to do so. This was the brand plasma system I installed Plasma Activation – Surface Activation & Surface Modification | Plasmatreat

Now with that side note, what does the average RVer do to make paint stick to plastic? Well, good question which is why I asked. The problem is the surface energy is too low and you have to some how treat it and raise the energy level so the paint will stick. They use a dyne test to measure the surface energy.

The paint thinner cleaning you did may have helped raise the surface energy enough to help the bonding process. It may not have been perfect but it may have been better. Basically, on low surface energy plastics, certain liquids bead all up when applied. When you raise the surface energy, that same adhesion liquid will now sheen across the surface and lay down nice and flat and stick. And different plastics react differently. The fiberglass doors may react very different then the injection molded RV fridge cover.

I know just enough about the problem to know its a problem and I know for sure we cannot afford a plasma system to treat our hand full of camper parts. This sounds like a trial and error kind of thing with pre-treatments that we can find at the local lumber yard. I may not get to this until the spring, but if I find out anything on pre-treatments, I'll pass it along.

Thanks for sharing what you found.

John
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Old 11-15-2016, 07:03 PM   #32
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On the EPDM roof colors, when Ben ordered his new Dicro EPDM for his T264SR roof, the place he started with sent him a tan color. It for sure was not white, it was tan. He returned it and we bought real white. Point is, they do make other colors of EPDM.
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Old 11-15-2016, 08:12 PM   #33
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Wow, I learned a few things right there John!

I've painted plastics over the years and the most difficult has been some of the injection molded plastics used in automotive interiors. I don't remember the type of plastic, but it has been used on armrests, door panels etc.

I have increased the bond capability by thoroughly cleaning and using a wax and grease remover, but then following up with acetone. Acetone definitely eats into most plastics, so it has to be done with a light application, but it seems to prepare the surface (increase surface energy?) sufficiently to enable paints made for plastic to stick and to hold up over time. Clear coating, as Jon mentioned also helps with durability.

I've used a product called Color Coat by SEM https://www.semproducts.com/ with good results for many years.

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Old 11-16-2016, 12:17 PM   #34
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I've used a product called Color Coat by SEM https://www.semproducts.com/ with good results for many years.
SEM custom fill is what my stripe paint is! The small town auto parts store/automotive paint place uses that. I had it done in basecoat/clearcoat, knowing I'd clearcoat the whole door after. I'm not sure if it's characteristic of this paint or the bc/cc format, but it was very thin and hard to apply. On textured FRP, it wanted to settle in the valleys and leave the mountain tops white.
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Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:20 PM   #35
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To Sunline Fan,

Jon thanks for the detail on the Fusion painting. Prior to retiring...Yeh.. I had to install a plasma surface treatment system to clean virgin plastic right after it came out of the injection mold before we could apply a sticker to the plastic. Many plastics do not like things to stick to them. Glues, paint or other forms of bonding agents have trouble adhering. The issue is the surface energy of the plastic is too low so nothing sticks.

The automotive manufactures finally figured this out on how to treat plastic car parts and have paint stick to it. Those who had early days GM Jimmy's that had painted plastic trim behind the bumper know very well how paint flakes off after a few years. They did not treat the plastic correctly before application.

The are 3 main way of surface treating plastics, flame, cornoa or plasma. And in that order each costs more in the equipment to do so. This was the brand plasma system I installed Plasma Activation – Surface Activation & Surface Modification | Plasmatreat

Now with that side note, what does the average RVer do to make paint stick to plastic? Well, good question which is why I asked. The problem is the surface energy is too low and you have to some how treat it and raise the energy level so the paint will stick. They use a dyne test to measure the surface energy.

The paint thinner cleaning you did may have helped raise the surface energy enough to help the bonding process. It may not have been perfect but it may have been better. Basically, on low surface energy plastics, certain liquids bead all up when applied. When you raise the surface energy, that same adhesion liquid will now sheen across the surface and lay down nice and flat and stick. And different plastics react differently. The fiberglass doors may react very different then the injection molded RV fridge cover.

I know just enough about the problem to know its a problem and I know for sure we cannot afford a plasma system to treat our hand full of camper parts. This sounds like a trial and error kind of thing with pre-treatments that we can find at the local lumber yard. I may not get to this until the spring, but if I find out anything on pre-treatments, I'll pass it along.

Thanks for sharing what you found.

John
So much good info here! As Rich said, he has used acetone, but it's generally too harsh for the plastic. The paint thinner didn't seem to hurt any plastic surface I put it on, and any residual not wiped off the surface didn't seem to have any negative effects on the paint. There were a few small pieces I painted almost right after wiping down and then wiping dry.
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1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:18 PM   #36
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We used polypropylene primer on some of paint resistant plastics in the model shop. Production would use the flame method on the Big Wheels* kids ride-on tricycles before painting the hub of the wheels.

We used to buy it in 55 gal. drums for the model shop. Below is a link for smaller consumer use.

Body repair shops also used this primer. It allowed the paint to bond and help keep paint more flexible. In time it does loose the effect and the paint can flake off.

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?...&hsimp=yhs-004
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Old 11-18-2016, 07:15 PM   #37
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And that's all she wrote for the season...

With snow possible tomorrow and significantly lower temps expected for the next little while, I decided to go ahead and cover today. All wrapped up for the winter now...

However, before I did, I did something very special to me. I reshot my favorite picture.



Funny to think, the latest trailer hadn't been born yet when the first picture was taken...
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Old 11-19-2016, 06:19 AM   #38
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Great photos Jon, You haven't changed a bit! (well, at least in your love for Sunlines).
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Old 11-19-2016, 09:01 PM   #39
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Great photos Jon, You haven't changed a bit! (well, at least in your love for Sunlines).
Rich
You know, I tried to get away from it for a little while, diversify my interests, and I did. The whole internship thing left a sour taste in my mouth for a while after. But it seemed like something was missing. I'm getting back into it now and I'm really glad I am. Just trying to keep it in moderation this time so I don't burn myself out.
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Old 11-22-2016, 06:56 AM   #40
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Hi Jon,

Great pic! Thanks for sharing.

Gee, the little green spruce tree in the background really grew... the years go by faster now...

Thanks

John
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