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07-08-2018, 11:25 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 298
SUN #9498
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Water heater replacement
Ok just used the water system for first time. I must have left water in the heater over winter. Major leak from it now...
Has anyone replaced the RV unit with on demand heaters?
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07-08-2018, 05:52 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,357
SUN #2097
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Many people have it's cheaper though and a lot easier to replace it with a standard heater no plumbing mods no gas lines to mess with. My question has always been what are you going to do with all that hot water when your weater tank only holds so much? They can freeze too so it's something that has to be looked at every winter also.
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07-08-2018, 07:09 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 298
SUN #9498
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Thanks Maunah!
Not so sure it's cheaper (replacement electrical/LP water heater is over $500 here in Ontario) than a small on demand shower ($169 on Amazon) heater that would provide all the hot water needed and be mounted outside..also the pump vibrates a LOT when it is running. Probably due to the poor shape of the floor to which it is (or was ?) attached. Is the accumulator supposed to shut off the pump when it reaches pressure? Lived on well water most of my life so thinking it could be similar to a pressure tank? Or am I way off base??
I guess I don't know the nature of these RV hot water heaters or water systems. Last year we had a very early cold snap to about -20F for nearly a week that came in fast and hard before many of us even had disconnected hoses from our house taps! Many frozen taps last fall and I was planning to winterize about a week later but?? I knew what damage was done so I left it to fix in better weather!
The places we go we can live without a water heater for a while but the bad part is that there is no good way of accessing the water system.
The whole thing is on the door side of the Advancer and by the outside wall behind a underbed wafer board vertical support for the bed. In other words I have think really skinny and stretch over the bed free under the lifted bed mattress and over the center bulkhead like bed support... yeah it's as awkward as it sounds!
So several 'opportunities for solutions' have been found!
First fixing and possibly upgrading/crossgrading the water system to better fit our needs.
Second accessing that °€°€÷|×¢[emoji769]^^π÷×}[°^€[emoji768][emoji767]€€€•√ water system space. Has anyone added a side hatch in that area?
Third possibly securing a little more storage space in our little trailer. A couple cubic feet is nothing to sneeze at, nor is a nicely plumbed appropriate water system!
I'm sorting and spitballin here any brainstorms?? Anybody??
I've attached photos of the pages from the original owners booklet.
Thanks in advance everybody ...as usual hoping my hard luck can help the next guy...
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07-08-2018, 07:13 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 298
SUN #9498
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That was supposed to be Mainah not Maunah!
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07-08-2018, 07:35 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 298
SUN #9498
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The water system is under the bed to the left of the bathroom and all the way left to the wall. The right half of the bed board hinges up with gas struts to hold it up... still not much room and certainly not easy access to the water system.
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07-08-2018, 09:36 PM
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#6
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,658
SUN #89
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The water heater, do you plan to camp off grid? Ever? The LP gas feature of the water heater allows to run without being hooked to shore power and works well in gas mode. The electric element feature yours has allows it also to be run on 120 VAC.
We do a quantity of off grid (boondocking) camping and really enjoy it. But, it is not for everyone, just mentioning it.
The congestion of the piping... each floor plan has it's challenges on plumbing. Our pump system was buried under the kitchen sink where I had to crawl through a bottom draw to get to it. That got real old real quick and I creatively moved the whole pump to a more accessible area for servicing. Moving the pump depending on layout can be done.
Moving the water heater is a major move. It is sort of planted in the side of the camper where it will fit and there needs to be a certain distance where nothing inside should contact it. (so it does not overheat I do believe)
If you are going to stay on the LP gas/electric unit you may find it has to stay where it is due to not really having an option of where else to locate it.
The instant on demand heaters have been talked about, however I do not recall any of our club members reporting on how they worked out. For sure check on the power consumption part of this unless you are upgrading your power system. It does not take much to tap out your 30 amp service to the camper. Especially while running the roof AC unit. In very hot summer months, we flip the water heater to gas to save the AC power. CG's can have low voltage and heating hot water with electric adds to the problem at your camper site. The 1,400 watt electric element in the water heater uses 11.6 amps of 30 amps you are starting with. Not trying to talk you out of the instant heater, just sharing some thoughts to help you consider all the options.
You mentioned accumulator tank, the standard Sunline system does not have an accumulator. The pump has an internal pressure switch that shuts off when it reaches pressure. Also check valves to prevent back flow to the fresh tank. The hot water heater has an air pocket in the top of the tank (when it is not dissolved) that acts like and accumulator and creates some cushion in the water system. Our pump will bang like crazy building pressure when the air cushion is all gone. (towing with full water will do this) I go out drain about a qt of water out of the heater, let air in, re-pressurize and then the pump calms down. If you go to a tankless system, you may have to add your own accumulator to help deal with thermal expansion or hydraulic lock up that the old water heater took care of most of the time.
Hope this helps
John
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Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
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07-09-2018, 05:48 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 298
SUN #9498
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The attached are our two best options I believe. They both use LP but the cost and size are extremely different!
Not certain where I would mount the tankless but I could mount on a plate in the same area as the current heater with it vented similarly by a vent plate.
The accumulator stateowas based on the pump manual and you're right there isn't one in the current setup and the 'bubble' in the tank is obviously not there! That all makes a ton of sense!
Boondocking is a possibility and we won't use so much LP that losing the AC heat would be an issue at all. Yeah the AC on the spot heaters are even cheaper and my wife likes a campground primarily but the rest of the trailer is setup to be off grid so I don't want to lose that!
Now to figure out how to access!
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07-09-2018, 07:10 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 298
SUN #9498
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I just found another possible solution and that is a replacement tank!
Never dreamed I could replace only the tank but?? They are available and I just have to find if the one for MY heater is available from Atwood...
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07-09-2018, 09:29 AM
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#9
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 6,155
SUN #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draughty
I just found another possible solution and that is a replacement tank!
Never dreamed I could replace only the tank but?? They are available and I just have to find if the one for MY heater is available from Atwood...
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You can replace just the tank, if cost is a concern. We often advise to replace the whole unit because other parts of the heater may have been damaged, or are just old/corroded.
It looks like you were looking at a Suburban water heater for a replacement- that's not a good comparison. The Suburban unit is smaller on the outside, so you'd have to come up with a way to patch the gap. The Atwood heaters are a direct replacement hole wise.
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2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9473.8 (as of 6/18/21)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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07-09-2018, 11:35 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 298
SUN #9498
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Thanks! I didn't know that... Not worried about matching the hole up as I do enough carpentry and metalwork..also have a Fab shop at my disposal as I am the draftsman..they all owe me favors!
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07-10-2018, 04:23 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 298
SUN #9498
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Well here it is...
Except for the split line it's in pretty good shape!
Heavyweight aluminum and appears to be repairable.
I removed the electrical panel and some sensors and will see if it can be TIG welded today. The walls if this tank are 1/8 thick. Not everyone can weld aluminum but the fabrication shop where I work has multiple aluminum certified welders. This should be a relatively easy fix.
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07-10-2018, 05:46 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 298
SUN #9498
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We accessed by removing the under bed board supports and one plywood piece that was crosswise under the back window. Easy to remove and gave access to the water heater.
I did order an accumulator so that will be added. Are those connections just standard 1/2" water supply lines like in a house?
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07-10-2018, 07:22 AM
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#13
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 6,155
SUN #123
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Wow, that's a huge crack. Since you have the welding option easily accessible, it's worth a shot. I've heard welding them can be risky, risky in that it may not hold and still leak. Make sure to pressure test the tank before reinstalling it.
Personally I'd drill a small hole at each end of the crack, to prevent it from splitting any more. Then weld away.
Yes, I believe the water fittings are standard 1/2", I bought elbows I used on my water pump from the hardware store. FYI, the bridge line and valves on the back of the water heater is for winterizing, you shut those valves to create the bridge and you can winterize the whole trailer without having the water heater tank in the mix. Hopefully they used that here and simply forgot to drain the tank, because otherwise you may find other water line issues down the line.
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2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9473.8 (as of 6/18/21)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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07-10-2018, 08:02 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 298
SUN #9498
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Thanks!
Yeah the welder is going to tack the crack and place a 1/8 patch over then fully TIG weld all around the patch.
Good idea pressure testing I can do that too....
I'm thinking I can install the accumulator after I get the water heater in and tested...I'll sanitize the heater tank before I install it as well...
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07-10-2018, 08:29 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 298
SUN #9498
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Patched and should be stronger than new!
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07-10-2018, 09:49 AM
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#16
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 6,155
SUN #123
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Looks great! Hopefully the pressure test checks out too.
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2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9473.8 (as of 6/18/21)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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07-10-2018, 05:18 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,357
SUN #2097
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The tanks are steel they are plated. I think you will be happier with the stock heater. I have a 2 gallon accumulator (yeah it takes up a lot of space) but it's buried under the tub the pump is mounted on a frame sitting on a foam pad under there too the only time I hear it is when I'm in the shower it cut the cycle time of the pump down to several minutes.
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07-10-2018, 08:46 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 298
SUN #9498
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Yeah I purchased a small accumulator just waiting for it to arrive.
The tank on my Atwood water heater was 1/8 aluminum, not steel of any sort. My welder was able to Aluminum TIG on a patch that is quite sturdy.
I have the water heater back in and just waiting for the accumulator to finish filling the tank. Pump already is running quieter than it was...
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07-11-2018, 09:30 PM
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#19
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,658
SUN #89
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On the pipe fittings,
Some are the same thread pitch as 1/2" NPT but are not tapered, they are straight running thread. Even on the pic of your accumulator you can see it is straight running thread.
And, if you looked there is a bevel on the ID which is used for a seal, thus the straight running thread.
You can screw on a standard 1/2" NPT tapered fitting and it will lock up as that fitting you are screwing on is tapered.
There are several types of the straight running thread fittings available to use on these fittings. Some are swivel nuts to adapt to flex hose or PEX pipe and then some union with an inverted V to lock up on the bevel inside the pipe.
Here is a swivel, they make elbows like this too. This will screw on nicely on those fittings and it is not using NPT as the water seal.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Apollo-1...212S/301541047
Here is a female coupling, this uses the inverted V as a seal, the thread is straight running. RV Female Coupling, 1/2" FPT
Here is a cap, you can see the cone inside
RV Manifold Test Cap, 1/2" FPT
Here is some of the male straight running threaded ones too with the inverted V Qest RV Tee, 1/2"
The list goes on what will fit them.
Point: The pump and the acumulator are not NPT but the thread pitch and diameter match, just straight running thread and not tapered NPT
Hope this helps
John
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Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
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07-12-2018, 12:24 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 298
SUN #9498
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Thanks John I will be putting it all together tonight so will know if I have to change some hardware etc then!
Thanks for the heads up...
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