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06-17-2009, 08:55 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,025
SUN #292
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solar panel
We've decided to increase the amount of boondocking that we do. To increase our ability we're adding a second battery and a solar panel. To reduce costs and have a little fun I've decided to build a solar panel for the roof of our Sunline.
I've decided that a 180 watt panel will be adequate for our small trailer. so I purchased 100 solar cells for $120 that I will assemble into a thin roof top box. Each cell produces 3.6 amps max at 0.5 volts, the cells will be organized to provide 10.8 amps at 18 volts.
Safe travels to all,
Norm Milliard
1982 Sunline 15.5 SB
2004 Honda CRV
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06-18-2009, 10:55 AM
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#2
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,285
SUN #128
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Steve is fascinated with this project. Can you provide a little more info? Where did you get the solar cells and how do you plan to make the case?
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Pam
Lance 1475 "Snoopy"
2012 GMC Sierra 3500HD 4x4 D/A
2012 Arctic Fox 30U, SUNLINES - 2006 2753 "Tweety", 2007 QUE "QUEtSE", 2364, 1660
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06-18-2009, 11:00 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 2,909
SUN #93
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Norm, your ambition never ceases to amaze me!
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Kathy & Leo SUN 093
Central Adirondacks of New York
2013 Rubicon 2900 Toy Hauler
We loved our 2007 T-2499
2010 Ford F-350 4x4 Lariat Super Crew Dually Diesel
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06-18-2009, 12:08 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,025
SUN #292
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Solar Panels
I bought the cells on Ebay from FRED MCNEELEY - 100 cells for $120. The cells I bought are called tabbed cells; it means they are prewired.
I have a website that shows how to assemble them into a panel. Later today I'll post the site. In summary it consists of building a shallow wooden box that the cells are glued to the bottom using some spongy type glue like silicon. The whole unit is than covered with glass or lexan.
I really will know better after I get it together.
Norm Milliard
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06-18-2009, 01:54 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,025
SUN #292
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Solar Instructions
This a site that shows how to build a solar panel. Ity looks easy; I'll let you know in a week or so how it comes out.
http://www.greenjoyment.com/how-to-b...ectricity.html
The only thing I've thought about doing beyond this is shock mounting the panel so the bounce of the trailer isn't so directly transmitted.
Norm Milliard
1982 Sunline 15.5 with almost dry shower and soon independent power.
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06-21-2009, 08:52 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 351
SUN #549
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Thanks for the kick in the pants, Norm.
I had seen that article a while back and thought it was interesting, then forgot about it. Now that you have brought it back to my attention, I might give it a shot as well.
My biggest concern at the moment is that we tend to favor the wooded sites, which isn't the greatest place to be if you want the panels in the sun. Regardless, I'm kicking around a couple of ideas and might give it a try.
- Frank
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06-21-2009, 03:25 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,025
SUN #292
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Experiment
In some ways it's an experiment. I've been calculating how many watts we'd need and intend to do some test next week to find out. We travel so much that I think our regular day time driving, usually 3-4 hours will all be sunny minus clouds of course. Though we also like wooded spots much of our traveling has been thru the west and south where it seems the sites are more open and less treed.
Time and test will tell.
I hope to have my cells next week and can't wait.
I'll keep the site informed.
Norm Milliard
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06-21-2009, 11:17 PM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 49
SUN #661
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This is what I used:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#69205k53/=2f7f73
What I like about these is they come sealed and rigid, and are very thin (like 1/4") so I just screwed it to the roof with no extra wood or glass or anything.
I did find that it's sensitive to angle to the sun. I found I could double it's output by facing it directly into the sun rather than flat on the roof.
I bought a company a few years ago that made electrical things, among them a battery charger for solar panels, and a solar tracker that would keep the panel aimed at the sun. I quit making these things, but I think if the power is critical to you, you might look into the tracker. Here's a link to a similar one:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Port...h_A_Windup_Cl/
I mounted my panels flat to the roof because I need them to just keep the battery up while the trailer is in storage, and I wanna drive fast.
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06-22-2009, 08:52 PM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 34
SUN #637
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I'm really intrigued by the idea of making panels. I was thinking that aluminum c-channel for the sides and sheet metal for the backing might be stronger and give a thinner profile. Please let us know how this goes as I'm thinking about this also.
Let me know if you want some help sizing the bus wiring for the panels as well as too the battery as you don't want to use too small of a wire or you will lose a lot of power from the panel to the battery. I'm sure I can dig that math up if I need too...
--Tom
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Tom and Jessie
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TT - 2004 T-2199 (w/ couch modification)
TV - 2005 Toyota Tundra
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https://www.wearezinks.com
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06-22-2009, 11:01 PM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 49
SUN #661
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Here's the math:
Drop = (K*2*length in feet*current in amps)/(wire size in circ mils)
K = Specific resistivity in ohms (circ mils/foot).
K = 12 for copper wire loaded from 50% to 100% of capacity.
K = 11 for copper wire loaded to 50% of capacity.
Essentially, for the wire from roof to battery, here's the losses (starting at 18v, assuming 20' of wire):
Wire: Loss: Volts at battery:
16ga, 8.6%, 17.03v
14ga, 5.4%, 17.30v
12ga, 3.4%, 17.39v
10ga, 2.1%, 17.62v
8ga, 1.3%, 17.76v
5% is not a bad target, I would go with the 14ga. Also, these are best case amps, probably most of the time it won't be anywhere near this, and the losses will be way lower.
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06-23-2009, 05:51 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,025
SUN #292
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Solar Cells
The cells arrived yesterday. I can see that the hardest part of making a solar panel is the the thinness of the glass panels. Handling will become the issue.
Norm Milliard
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06-23-2009, 08:27 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 351
SUN #549
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Re: Solar Cells
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda03842
The cells arrived yesterday. I can see that the hardest part of making a solar panel is the the thinness of the glass panels. Handling will become the issue.
Norm Milliard
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Norm,
Somewhere I saw a video on the construction of commercial panels. The guys were using suction cups to handle and move the panels. Seems like a good idea, if you use a releasable cup.
- Frank
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06-23-2009, 10:09 AM
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#13
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 49
SUN #661
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Commercially, they are not using suction cups as we know them. Their cups are essentially flat and are hooked to a vacuum pump with a release valve. Almost no pressure in picking up and placing the cells. The cups we would normally have on hand (press on, peel off, or the lever kind) would surely break the cells.
You could easily make a "pick and place" suction handler with a sponge and a vacuum cleaner...
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06-23-2009, 06:49 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 351
SUN #549
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Thanks for the clarification, Larry. I should have been a little more clear in my description.
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07-08-2009, 02:44 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,025
SUN #292
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First one
I made my first solar panel. Its 2x4 feet and contains 39 3.6 amp cells arranged in 3 rows. It should produce a projected at maximum of about 75 watts. Testing is yet to be done on actual output. I have measured the open ciruit voltage in our overcast, continual rainy, cool weather and have abotu 20.5 volts.
I must admit it was rather easy to make, less than 8 hours not counting time for the paint to dry. My only concern is trailer bounce reliability.
I plan to make two more, figuring I'll get good at it by the time I'm done.
In the next update I'll take pictures.
Norm
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Norm and Ginny Milliard
1982 Sunline 15.5 SB
2004 Honda CRV 4 cyl, manual
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07-11-2009, 01:23 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,025
SUN #292
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Working Panel
I have successfully made a 75 watt solar panel.
I ran a test on it today. It is a little over cast today and in full sunlight it should produce 3.6 amps. It is producing 2.1 amps with today's sky. (I'm not complaining about the weather because we've had rain 8 out of 10 days for more than a month.)
It's open circuit voltage is about 21.5 volts.
The cost of the panel is $50 for the cells, $10 for the wooden box, $4 for a tube of silicon, and $20 for a piece of clear lexan. Say $80 for the panel. I received a flyer from Camping World and a similar panel is $600.
I plan to build two more for a total of 225 watts but only after I've run around with this one bouncing in the car for a while.
Pretty exciting.
Norm
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Norm and Ginny Milliard
1982 Sunline 15.5 SB
2004 Honda CRV 4 cyl, manual
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07-12-2009, 10:34 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,025
SUN #292
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Virtually DOne
I just took the final step and placed a lexan sheet over the cells. All I have left to do is to attach the plastic cover. I intend to do that with mirror holders and than seal the outside the edges with caulk.
It's a bright sunny day and I just did the final testing of our first solar panel with it's plastic panel in place.
It's rated for 3.6 amps in full sunlight and that's what it's producing.
This is what it looks like. The next one will be more professional looking.
Note that some of the edges of the cells are chipped, hardly affecting performance. These are appearance reject cells but very inexpensive.
Norm
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Norm and Ginny Milliard
1982 Sunline 15.5 SB
2004 Honda CRV 4 cyl, manual
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07-12-2009, 11:55 AM
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#18
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,656
SUN #89
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Norm
This is getting more interesting by the minute.... pics really help. Nice job!
Can we wish for some close ups of the cell frame construction and the solar cell hookup?
Even if on the next one? The wheels are a turning..... h'mm a possible future project after I get the other 30 of then already waiting in line
Thanks for sharing
John
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Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
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07-12-2009, 12:23 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,025
SUN #292
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Next One
On the next one I'll take sequential construction pictures. Basically this is the process.
I will say it was relatively easy. The hardest part is that you have to be carefull because the cells are fragile.
I had some 1/4 inch plywood left from the shower construction project. I made an open box by gluing (titebond II waterproof glue) 1x2 inchers to create the sides of the box.
I then painted it white because I had an open can. I drilled four 1/4 inch holes, one in each corner of the bottom to allow for venting. As well I drilled a hole in the short side of the box at opposite corners for wires to carry the current to the solar charge controller, not yet purchased.
The individual cells that I bought are 3x6 inches and come with two wires attached to the top. The top side wires get soldered to the bottom side of the next cell and so on. All 39 cells are wired in series.
Words can't beat pictures. I'll start next week and post pictures.
Norm
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Norm and Ginny Milliard
1982 Sunline 15.5 SB
2004 Honda CRV 4 cyl, manual
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07-17-2009, 01:39 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 854
SUN #115
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Hey Norm, this is awesome stuff you're posting. I'm totally jealous and would love to build one of these on a next project camper.
I wouldnt worry too much about the thing bouncing around on the roof. We've had our solar panels monted to the roof for 3 years now and have yet to have the slighest problem with them or the mounting hardware.
I think you'd have to hit one of them pretty darn hard for them to come loose. I mean I've seen branches scrape against them and we've been in pretty strong hail, and (Knocking on Wood) have yet to have anything happen
Good luck, and this looks like such a cool project.
When it comes time to scout out batteries, check out the Lifeline brand of AGM's. They're a bit expensive, but again, 3 years with zero maintenance and using them non-stop. I'd say we've paid for them with what a normal deep cell would have cost us in maintenance and upkeep
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