Bal Stabilizer Upgrades – Get rid of the wiggle. (Long - lot’s of pic’s)

[JohnB]

Hi Fellow Sunliner's


Since I changed to this larger camper the dreaded wiggle in the camper has been really bad. The tricks I use to do on our T2499 while they help, do not have the same effect on this bigger camper.

So I’m working towards a 5 phased plan that I hope will cure this issue.


Phase 1. Use clamping type wheel chocks. Done now 3 years ago. I use my homemade wood ones on both sides of the camper. They help but do not cure all.



Phase 2. Use risers under the Bal Stabilizers to help to not extend them so much. Done now 3 years ago. This has a small incremental gain but better then not having.



Phase 3. Add center supports near the wheels. Now done permanent. I started with using 2 bottles jacks to see if they would help. They do help but do not cure. For 3 years I have been doing this.


Earlier this month I added center stabilizers so I would not have to haul the bottle jacks in and out. These came from Kitty’s Sunline RV Parts and Sales. Via, Martinsburg WV, Mexico PA, Rochester NY, then a 1500 mile road trip back to Ohio…. They have seen a lot of the east coast…

I made 2 weld pads for each stabilizer that would weld to the frame. Since I have enclosed tanks I cannot do the exact same thing Sunline did to mount the original 4.






Lined up in place




Now added.



Done






Phase 4. Stop the original Bal stabilizers from unscrewing themselves. Done today. This never was a problem on the T2499 but for sure is a problem on this T310SR. Due to the weight of the camper as soon as I take the wrench off the stabilizer I can watch it unscrew right in front of me….. ...



If I do not lube them then they crank so hard I can barley move them but they do not unscrew. Problem is I’m fighting them all the time. I lube the acme screw and they work nice and easy, so easy they unscrew. So I created a method to lock the screw any where in the stroke of the stabilizer when in use. I had to solve this issue to even have a chance of getting to a level of wiggle free.

So here is what I did. Have 6 of them. I made these from left over scrape steel and aluminum. A quantity of work hours but not $$. Plus it is therapeutic for me doing this.

The sizes fit the materials. Start out with 3/16” hot rolled flat bar. I needed 2” wide, had 3” wide so we trimmed it after it was cut to length.


Then layout a bunch of holes. Scribe lines and center punch. Take the time and make a template to make the others go faster.




Drill the pilot holes.


Transfer pilot holes to all the other plates.




Drill more holes…

While drill’in, cut more blocks. This is 3/4” T6061 aluminum bar stock. Has a few extra holes I don’t need, they are lightening holes…. But hey it is square, easy to drill and tap and was free. Work threw it out off a machine we scraped.


Now take aluminum blocks using the steel predrilled hole plate and clamp parts in place for spotting. Measure to get the block spacing perfect before spotting the holes.


Spot the holes.


Prick punch mark the plates so they are exact matched sets. With this many parts laying around it is easy to get them mixed up.


More drill’in. This aluminum works real nice.



Tap 4 holes in aluminum blocks.


Scribe lines to cut out center section.


Saw to holes


Break chip out from center




Clean up slot and hand file width to insure it works with a 3/4” hex.


Bolt together and let’s see if they work as planned.


Lower the stabilizer as normal and preload stabilizer tight. Have spinner back about 1/4" from fully being pushed on. Hold spinner on the acme screw to keep it loaded. I can feel it trying to untwist.


While holding the spinner with 1 hand position the clamp in place with the other hand.


Flip clamp over 3/4" hex.


When clamp is fully on, reverse spinner handle slightly to apply pressure from the hex to bind up in the clamp to hold it in place. Works good.


Take spinner handle off and stabilizer is now loaded tight and is not going to unscrew itself until I go to it take back up.




Each of these anti wiggle treatments gives a percentage better in eliminating the problem. Stage 5 I have not yet started but will be in the near future. It is to build these.

SteadyFast: 5th Wheel and RV Travel Trailer Stabilizer System

I’ll update the post when they come aboard….

Hope this helps someone as this wiggle is really aggravating.

John

[Jim-Bev-2363]

Looks like your having lots of fun. The weather must be getting nice enough to play outside.

I did notice your using a four by four under the jacks. Wouldn't a six by six be better and take full advantage of the foot on the jack? Might be a little more stable since the entire foot would be on a solid foundation.

Is the torque so strong to move the screw that you need all that meat holding it? It looks like for sure it will not drop on you now. If the jacks moves under load do they drop while riding down the road? In need of a strap to hold them up?

Have you tried a hand drill for running the jacks? With your frame so high from the ground it would be easier than all that cranking. Might be what you used since I couldn't see the drive end of the socket.

The angled braces look like they should really make a big difference. They are made especially for your type of jacks so should be a easy fit. Crossing fingers on that one.

[JohnB]

Hi Jim,

See answers below. All good questions and maybe someone can see something a miss in my answers as to how I came upon my conclusions. I really want this wiggle issue to be gone. Every once in a while I luck out and for at least for 1 night I’m partly wiggle free. Then come the next AM it’s back to wiggle city as what ever preload was left in the stabilizers is now gone and I have air under the foot. So I attempt to tighten once again.

Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363

Looks like your having lots of fun. The weather must be getting nice enough to play outside.

Jim, I do mod’s all year round and yes, to me this is fun! Rain and snow does put a big damper on my outside shop…. That and wind and temps less then 30F….

Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363

I did notice your using a four by four under the jacks. Wouldn't a six by six be better and take full advantage of the foot on the jack? Might be a little more stable since the entire foot would be on a solid foundation.

I have a collection of 4 x 4’s that are left overs from project I did in my outbuilding. They store well in my rear cargo boxes due to there size. A 6 x 6 may give more support but it is a trade off. I have to figure where to store 6 chunks of wood that big and they weigh more. One of my bigger issues is the way Sunline mounted the 4 original stabilizers that even if I had a 6 x 6 one of the underlying issues still exists. I have an I beam frame and that is good but the lower flange of a RV I beam is not very stiff to resist twisting. They welded a plate on the bottom to on purpose shift the stabilizer off center to give more clearance when the stabilizer is up so the hex of the lead screw is in from the side of the camper when it is up. This offset mount makes the flange twist that much worse. I can grab the stabilizer when it is half way down and wiggle 10 to 15 degrees with only pushing ~ 20 to 30# of force which is not much trying to stabilize a 9,200# camper. My camper rocks when I’m on concrete in my yard so more surface area while a good thing would not cure my present underlying issues.

See here, all 4 are mounted like this




I will address that wiggle by welding in a gusset from the lower flange to the vertical I beam like I did at my axle hangers when I add the stabilizer bars.

Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363

Is the torque so strong to move the screw that you need all that meat holding it? It looks like for sure it will not drop on you now. If the jacks moves under load do they drop while riding down the road? In need of a strap to hold them up?

The torque that I apply is not much. It is in the ~ 20 to maybe 30 foot lb area and that is enough that it just unscrews under the weight of the camper pushing down on it. The mechanical advantage backwords thru the scissors with that much weight pushing on it is high. I really do not want a lot of lift I really only want a small preload of force up and then be solid stable. With this long camper I do not like to jack up the ends, the frame flexes and all you can hear is the siding and everything else starting to creak. The frame is in a natural loaded state hanging off the suspension, I really only want to lift/preload ~ 1/4 to most 1/2”.

I found with the bottle jacks in the middle if I have something rock stable that will not drop, I get a benefit without a lot up up force. With a 12 ton bottle jack locked it is not coming down. All I had to do in the middle was apply about 1/4” lift to preload and it stayed locked dead tight. I’m trying to do that on all 4 corners now with the use of the new Bal anti back off clamps.

When the scissors are full up, they lock hard and I have never had one come loose while towing. In fact they are locked so hard in the position is takes a fair amount of strength to unlock them.

Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363

Have you tried a hand drill for running the jacks? With your frame so high from the ground it would be easier than all that cranking. Might be what you used since I couldn't see the drive end of the socket.

The cordless drill, no I have not used that but I know many do and they like them. What I have is actually a 1/2” drive spinner with a flex universal and a cheapo 3/4" socket on the end. Over the years when you buy a socket/tool set they include a spinner. I have 2 of them and now that I have an impact wrench I barley ever use them. So one lives in the camper as with the flex joint they work really well. It takes no effort to raise and lower the stabilizer when it is lubed. You can see the spinner almost laying on the ground here. The crank that Bal gives you have to be dead straight on with it and I stopped using that thing after the 1st camping trip on my old camper…. While the spinner and universal joint is overkill by 4 times.... it sure works really nice and was just sitting in the tool box doing nothing.

Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363

The angled braces look like they should really make a big difference. They are made especially for your type of jacks so should be a easy fit. Crossing fingers on that one.

The angle braces, yes I believe/hope they are the final total fix. I know PTHutch added a version of them to his big camper and they really helped his. My camper is a little longer and a little heavier. What I have found is the bigger the camper the worse this wiggle issue is.

Thanks

John

[Jim-Bev-2363]

JohnB,

Your shop sounds great and one I'm sure all us guys would like. You slowdown at 30 degrees and I slowdown at 88 degrees,

When I asked about using a drill I was thinking about a electric drill of a larger size and torque. Perhaps that would allow for less lubricant to stop the "unjacking".

Now that I looked closer at the jacks mountings it is a very unstable location on less than enough metal and gussets can't hurt. If you installed another floor joist at each jack location it might give somewhere for the future cross bracing, from side to side, to connect. I also think I'd put the cross bracing before worrying about beefing the jacks mounting point since that alone might hold'er steady. Atleast steady enough.

One thing is for sure and that is that four jacks were not enough for the weight of the unit to begin with but I do know it will be right before you quit.

jim

PS.... I have the BAL stabilizer jacks on my T-2363 and one of them broke so I took it off to fix. I was thinking it was a loose locknut but not so lucky. It was a busted weld where the screw rod fastens with the locknut. Seems that instead of having full welds the welder only had tackwelds in two places. I put the stabilizers down and then raised the TT up onto them. I know now it was more weight than I should have placed on the jacks and the tackwelds busted. Welder is now fixing it for me. Seems it is always something.

[EMD_Driver]

Originally Posted by JohnB

What I have found is the bigger the camper the worse this wiggle issue is.

John

You should feel how much a fifth wheel wiggles! I thought the T-320SR was bad... The Fifth wheel is much worse!

[kanyonkitty]

And what is wrong with wiggle ???? It's just a way to improve your balance

[JohnB]

Reporting in from the anti back off units I added to my Bal stabilizers.

They do what they are suppose to. Now been out with them 4 times and in different camping areas and they now stay tight all the time.



This has helped the TT wiggle a noticeable improvement. It however is still not the solid feeling I'm after. There is still trailer wiggle that is unwanted.

Next is the Steady Fast upgrade that will hopefully cure the rest. At the rate things are going this summer it may not be until late fall or winter time before I get to that project.

John

[pwb01]

I asked a tech at Camping World how to stop the wobble in my T-1950 a few years ago. He said to use 1 of those BAL wheel locks. The kind you expand between the tires. He was right, one side was enough. Solid, no wobble.

[JohnB]

Hi Paul

Yes, the expanding wheel chocks help. As my 1st pic showed I use them on both sides of the camper and they do help. However I have found that the longer the camper the worse the problem. On my T2499 the wheel chocks and the Bal stabilizers made a pretty good combo. But on the T310SR it is still not enough.

I have heard 5th wheel folks even have it worse.

[pwb01]

I meant to start the last reply with "my much lighter and shorter T-1950..............." Your right. I used to have a 16 footer where it was rock solid with just the the four crank down supports.

[OhhWell]

Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363

PS.... I have the BAL stabilizer jacks on my T-2363 and one of them broke so I took it off to fix. I was thinking it was a loose locknut but not so lucky. It was a busted weld where the screw rod fastens with the locknut. Seems that instead of having full welds the welder only had tackwelds in two places. I put the stabilizers down and then raised the TT up onto them. I know now it was more weight than I should have placed on the jacks and the tackwelds busted. Welder is now fixing it for me. Seems it is always something.

We had the same thing happen but it was on a replacement jack. The 3 other originals are still fine. Before I read your post, I thought it had just bent and slid over what I thought were bumps to hold the sleave in place.

After what you said about the tack weld points, I saw that they had broken free. I borrowed a welder and having never welded before made a nice mess around the sleeve but hey, it holds!

[Jim-Bev-2363]

Glad you took another look. It is a good thing that ugly gets the job done. If not, I'd be in a werld of hert.