Sunline RV Forum
Sunline User Photos

Go Back   Sunline Coach Owner's Club > Sunline Club Community Forums > Sunline Community
Click Here to Login

Join Sunline Club Forums Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-27-2008, 08:57 AM   #1
Moderator
 
PTHutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 1,799
SUN #98
PTHutch is an unknown quantity at this point
Tricks When Buying Gasoline

I received this from a friend and thought I would share it with everyone here. Most of the stuff that’s said seems to make sense. With the cost of fuel going up, any little bit helps.

Note, my friend was not the originator of the information. The originator of the information said that he has worked in the petroleum business for 31 years.

I don't know how accurate or correct the information is. Maybe some of you here may be able to confirm or contradict this person’s claim.


TIPS ON PUMPING GAS (Good information)

Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the ground temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations have their storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the ground the more dense the gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so buying in the afternoon or in the evening your gallon is not exactly a gallon. In the petroleum business, the specific gravity and the temperature of the gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, ethanol and other petroleum products plays an important role. A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps.

When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a fast mode.
If you look you will see that the trigger has three (3)stages: low, middle, and high.
In slow mode you should be pumping on low speed, thereby minimizing the vapors that are created while you are pumping. All hoses at the pump have a vapor return.
If you are pumping on the fast rate, some of the liquid that goes into your tank becomes vapor. Those vapors are being sucked up and back into the underground storage tank so you're getting less for your money's worth.

One of the most important tips is to fill up when your gas tank is HALF FULL or HALF EMPTY. The reason for this is, the more gas you have in your tank the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates faster than you can imagine. Gasoline storage tanks have an internal floating roof. This roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and the atmosphere, so it minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service stations, here where I work, every truck that we load is temperature compensated so that every gallon is actually the exact amount.

Another reminder, if there is a gasoline truck pumping into the storage tanks when you stop to buy gas,DO NOT fill up--most likely the gasoline is being stirred up as the gas is being delivered, and you might pick up some of the dirt that normally settles on the bottom.

Hope this will help you get the most value for your money.
__________________

__________________
Mary & Tom (aka Hutch)
2015 Jayco Eagle Premier 361REQS
2014 GMC Sierra 3500HD 4x4 CC D/A
Sunlines: 2005 Solaris T-280SR; 1999 Solaris T-2670; 1998 Saturn T-24A
PTHutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 12:11 PM   #2
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,167
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Hutch

Interesting....

I was going to do a calculation on this thermal expansion comment to see how bad it was on a tank full. And I found these 2 articles.

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/reso...lUSAJune07.pdf

And this one:

http://www.nist.gov/testimony/2007/r...l%206-8-07.htm

The first one, if it is valid, states the average consumer can get taken for $1.44 on a 20 gallon fill up if gas is $3.50 a gallon being pumped at 90 deg F outside. Verses the 60 deg F that the gas was sold to the filing station at.

The problem is there, and we are paying for it at the pump. The worse news to the consumer is, gee the fuel industry is making more money off us and now we just realized it…... It is not so much to us as $1.44 per fill up but just think of the extra profits when you sell and entire tanker full.....

It did mention Canada I think compensates for some of this. Don’t know. Your post was the 1st I ever heard of this.

H’mm. Does this mean to only go camping in the winter? The gas is colder them… Or is this offset by the extra LP to heat the camper….

This gas deal here lately where we are hearing rumors of $4.00/gallon by next week is not a pleasant thought. We are still going camping, just shorter trips and will end up giving up something else. We need a cheaper alternate fuel or better fuel economy TV’s.

OR just park the camper next to a lake and hike to it…. Not a bad idea right about now…

Thanks.

John
__________________

__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 12:47 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
MACK C-85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,114
SUN #64
MACK C-85 is an unknown quantity at this point
Diesel Fuel in the Baltimore/Annapolis Corridor has jumped roughly $0.20 a gal (to $3.70 +/-) in the last 48 hours SO $4 a gal is not far off
__________________

2004 Dodge Ram 2500 Club Cab 4x4 CTD
2007 Sunline Solaris T-276-SR: Misty Blue/Cherry
2001 Dodge Ram 1500 Reg Cab 4x4 OFF-ROAD
MACK C-85 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 03:49 PM   #4
Moderator
 
PTHutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 1,799
SUN #98
PTHutch is an unknown quantity at this point
I paid $3.84 for Diesel south of Syracuse, NY this week-end while taking our daughter back to college.

It's $3.70 around here also.
__________________
Mary & Tom (aka Hutch)
2015 Jayco Eagle Premier 361REQS
2014 GMC Sierra 3500HD 4x4 CC D/A
Sunlines: 2005 Solaris T-280SR; 1999 Solaris T-2670; 1998 Saturn T-24A
PTHutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 04:13 PM   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
HappyCampers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 473
SUN #395
HappyCampers is an unknown quantity at this point
I just filled up one of our company trucks this afternoon. $3.85 a gal for Diesel. South Central PA, Dillsburg. I knew I should have filled my pick-up last week. I don't drive it much so I only get fuel about every 5 weeks in the winter.
__________________
Lowell, Amanda, Marley, and Winnie
1996 T-2053 (First Sunline "Little One")
2001 T-295SR (Favorite Sunline)
2003 F-304SR (Last Sunline "The Big One")
1985 T-1650 (Current Sunline)
2004.5 Dodge Ram 3500 5.9 HO Cummins
HappyCampers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008, 10:02 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Galaxiedriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 251
SUN #254
Galaxiedriver
Without crunching the numbers my guess is that temperature makes little difference on how much gas you get. The temperature of things underground is about a constant 55 Degrees F. Since the top of most gas station tanks is about 3 to 5 feet underground, daily temperature fluctuations have almost no affect on the temperature of the gasoline or diesel fuel in the tank.

The amount of evaporation from pumping fast is trivial IMHO. Besides, my time is worth something so I pump as fast as the tank will take it.

Now, the thing about filling up when the big tanker is filling the gas station tanks.....absolutely true, especially at old gas stations. Over time, dirt gets into those tanks and builds up. Filling these tanks stirs that dirt up and it takes several hours to settle. If you see a tanker filling the station tanks, it is very advisable to find another station.

Another fuel cost consideration......Paying more for a higher octane fuel expecting better mileage or more power is a waste of money. Use the octane recomended in your owners manual. Octane is related only to knock , or more correctly, preventing knock. Higher octane will not increase mileage, will not provide more power, will not make your vehicle go faster, will not provide better acceleration. It will only prevent knock better. If your engine does not knock at the recomended octane, don't waste your money on higher octane fuel, even in mountain areas.
__________________
Paul & Jan
Columbia, Missouri
2014 Cougar 31RKS, 2012 blue Oval F 250 XLT 6.2 L, 6 speed, 4 X 4.
www.62ford.com/registry

Galaxiedriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 03:46 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 9
SUN #12
Finally Time
Don't pump at Slow Speed

Speaking as a former Weights & Measures Inspector, most pump errors that go against the consumer are found during the slow delivery test. In Califrnia each gas pump is tested by pumping 5 gallons (as shown on the pump read out) into a certified 5 gallon measure. The test is done twice, 5 gallons at fast speed and 5 gallons at slow speed. It's not common to find out of tolerance errors during the fast test. When errors are found usually the volume is ok during the fast delivery and short measure during the slow delivery.
__________________
Finally Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 08:11 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 280
SUN #382
Mooney
Would Weights and Measures be the group to call if you suspect an octane deficiency or quality issue? There are two of a major brand stations near where we live, and the 87 at one of them seems suspect, both my truck and my wife's car run poorly on one dealer's; but good on any other one (including the same brand, different franchisee- who also uses a different dealer) in the area.

I thought it was my truck until I bought some elsewhere, and I spent a bunch of money there over the past year or so.

It has only become apparent since the Ethanol switchover, and I had originally chalked up the better running due to towing cleaning out the system if you know what I mean.... (the only time I buy gas elsewhere is when towing- I don't go too far otherwise, the one place supplied 98% or more of my fuel for BOTH vehicles for years....it's THAT major of a station (and close by too...)
__________________
Kelly & Greg Southeast MA
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/g...hotos006-1.jpg
'04 2500HD Silverado
'05 2380s Solaris Lite, axles flipped
Mooney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 09:40 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Galaxiedriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 251
SUN #254
Galaxiedriver
When you say run poorly, can you describe?

Lower octane will cause the engine to ping and knock when under load. Old gasoline could be the problem. Today's gasolines age in 2 to 3 months. The highly volatile compounds could be gone or partly gone making the fuel less peppy.
__________________
Paul & Jan
Columbia, Missouri
2014 Cougar 31RKS, 2012 blue Oval F 250 XLT 6.2 L, 6 speed, 4 X 4.
www.62ford.com/registry

Galaxiedriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 06:51 AM   #10
Moderator
 
PTHutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 1,799
SUN #98
PTHutch is an unknown quantity at this point
Greg,

It would seem like Weights and Measures. You may also want to contact you state / local DOT to see what they recommend.

I know each state DOT has their own inspectors that annually check the accuracy of the pumps. There was just a news clip on this here the other day. Some counties here in NYS had over 10% failure rates. Inaccuracy of pumps can cause us to pay more. They did indicate most failures were due to mechanical issues, but some were station owner’s fraud.

A simple test for pump accuracy is to when filling up, stop at exactly 10 gallons and check to see if the price is 10x the /gal price (i.e., move the decimal of the /gal price one place to the right. For example $3.50 / gal = $35.00).

Hope this helps.
Hutch
__________________
Mary & Tom (aka Hutch)
2015 Jayco Eagle Premier 361REQS
2014 GMC Sierra 3500HD 4x4 CC D/A
Sunlines: 2005 Solaris T-280SR; 1999 Solaris T-2670; 1998 Saturn T-24A
PTHutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 07:27 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 280
SUN #382
Mooney
The guy gets a lot of delivieries, and is really busy- I was more thinking that it's diluted a bit somehow.

The fuel doesn't cause pinging, but it does make it sound older, like rattling a little. It could be knock, but I can't really tell on my truck due to the exhaust and such-

I do know that I get 5% better mileage on the place I am going now, smae brand, different dealer- my truck idles and starts better, and goes along a heck of a lot better. I just wish I knew why, b/c the original place has better prices by far- and it may now have a reason why.

The pumps are accurate- volume to price wise, but I just don't think the 87 is quite there. The 89 he sells has the same effect on both our vehicles that the 87 does at all the others down the street. Both our motors call for 87 grade, so there shouldn't be an issue as long as the dealer and supplier are doing their parts.

Thanks for the help!
__________________
Kelly & Greg Southeast MA
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/g...hotos006-1.jpg
'04 2500HD Silverado
'05 2380s Solaris Lite, axles flipped
Mooney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 09:01 PM   #12
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,167
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Greg

Don’t know if this is any part of what you are seeing, but I had a 1998 Tahoe which had I believe the same engine as your PU and also the same computer setup.

On that truck back in 2000, I could not go to BP for gas. After about 3 to 5 tanks I would end up with “check engine” on. Take it to the dealer and they install a new O2 sensor and away I go again, for another month or so and bam” Check engine” comes on again. Again another O2 sensor.

Well there is a pattern of something going on. I had a buddy at work have the same truck and he said the same thing. His mechanic said what brand gas you using? He said BP. Well change brands, any brand other then BP. So I tried this too. I put 1 tank of high test of Shell in, then went back to 87 Shell regular and never had the issue again.

Then BP merged with Amoco. Then the problem did not occur again.

I also noticed on my 2003 Suburban, that come spring, the towing gas mileage would drop 1.5 MPG. And I used the same Marathon station all the time. Come fall the mileage would come back…

All I can say is GM’s can be picky on gas. And what ever you do on the newer ones, 2000 and newer, they are honed in to run on 87. Putting hi test in the 6.0 trying to get better MPG is a waste of money and actually starting out by getting 1.5 MPG less… It drives the computer nuts.
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 09:49 PM   #13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 9
SUN #12
Finally Time
Complaint about Octane

In most states it is state Weights and Measures that does the testing for octane. However weights and mesures goes by different names and is in different departments in some states. In California it is the Department of Food and Agriculture, Division of Measurement Standards. If you want to locate the department in your state here's a list of State Directors and their contact information. (sorry, don't know how to make a clickable link on this site) http://www.ncwm.net/state/

I know in Calif whenever a complaint about octane was recieved, county weights and measures inspectors would go to the station and pump a sample. The sample was then sent to closer of 2 state labs (Sacramento or Los Angeles) then was tested for the correct octane and impurities.
__________________
Finally Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2008, 10:15 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 156
SUN #114
pamwinn
I am trying to verify the validity of the info above. It is currently under investigation on the Snopes site and I have forwarded the info to my brother who is the Director of the Fuel Oil Lab in Georgia.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/household/gastips.asp
__________________
pamwinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 01:43 PM   #15
Moderator
 
PTHutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 1,799
SUN #98
PTHutch is an unknown quantity at this point
Hey Pam,

I'm anxious to see what you find out.

Thanks for taking the initiative to check into these.

Hutch
__________________
Mary & Tom (aka Hutch)
2015 Jayco Eagle Premier 361REQS
2014 GMC Sierra 3500HD 4x4 CC D/A
Sunlines: 2005 Solaris T-280SR; 1999 Solaris T-2670; 1998 Saturn T-24A
PTHutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 03:55 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 156
SUN #114
pamwinn
The following is all I could get from my brother who is a dorky scientist type:

Some of the reasoning is flawed. Like the temperature of product is the temperature of the product in the tank once the supply line and dispenser have been purged. The product in the dispenser is more affected by ambient temperature. The higher the temperature, the less weight per unit volume occurs. For gasoline this is about 0.0006 mass per unit volume. The accuracy of meters must be +,- 0.5% to be considered in proper calibration.

On things like what you read, you have 3 alternatives. Assume it is true, false or neither. If one feels it is all true, then do it. If false or neither, don't worry about it. The article makes several assumptions that may be possible but not necessarily probable and if so may be insignificant.

How far one goes on a nominal volume is more dependent on acceleration and speed. If both are relatively slow, i.e. driving like grandma, fuel economy is better, possibly up to 10%. This is more possible and probable then anything offered in the article.

Like everything, opinion varies and like the great Mr. Gump, that's all I got to say about that.
__________________
pamwinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 09:43 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Galaxiedriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 251
SUN #254
Galaxiedriver
Here are a couple more thoughts on this fuel thing.

Between June 1 and September, the blend of gasoline sold in most areas changes. As I understand it, some of the highly volatile products are removed. The thinking is that these volatile products evaporate more in the summer heat and contribute to smog. These also are the better burning elements in the fuel so the summer blend fuel is not as peppy.

Ethanol gets 20 to 30 percent less mileage than pure gasoline. So, if you pump an ethanol blend, your mileage will go down. Here in Missouri, last year, the state required that all gasoline sold contain 10% ethanol. The Governor's brother is heavily involved in the ethanol business here so the family business got a real boost and the consumer got screwed again.

What affect this will have on older engines and fuel systems not designed to use ethanol is yet to be determined. The word the legislators sent out was that 10% will not have any affect. In my opinion, it will have an affect, it just won't show up for a while. Ethanol absorbs water so I plan on using moisture removing additives in my boat and Galaxie.
__________________

__________________
Paul & Jan
Columbia, Missouri
2014 Cougar 31RKS, 2012 blue Oval F 250 XLT 6.2 L, 6 speed, 4 X 4.
www.62ford.com/registry

Galaxiedriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
looking at buying sunline 1999 2353 ronnyr Introduce Yourself 4 06-19-2009 11:48 AM
thinking of buying 1999 t2353 - help? ronnyr Repairs and Maintenance 6 06-18-2009 02:56 PM
Canadian Buying tinybluetj Sunline Community 3 06-13-2008 10:00 AM
Buying a Sunline at auction?? GreenWillow Sunline Community 6 07-13-2007 06:14 PM
Buying a new Que or other sunline wilco Sunline Que 4 07-09-2007 09:29 AM


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Sunline RV or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:49 PM.


×