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09-18-2017, 11:00 AM
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#41
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,656
SUN #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainah
Dinosaur boards, goto their website visually find your board they are the best.
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Hi mainah,
I agree with the Dinosaur boards are good, but a question, have you ever changed one in a Atwood Hydrotherm furnace? I have not but trying to learn on this one. It seems there may be an issue requiring a rewire on the thermostat.
Following this trail. The Ignition board page from Dinosaur. There is a "big" note on the bottom of the page about the T stat being in the ground circuit.
Ignitor Board Index page
It looks like their Fan 50 Plus Pins is the right board. Fan 50 Plus Pins page
Here are the instructions on the needed modification for the T stat if they use a ground loop circuit
DuoTherm® Modification
and the PDF showing the the before and after wiring diagram. http://www.dinosaurelectronics.com/I...herm%20Mod.pdf
The 8500 series Hydrolflame uses "sink" control scheme as does the Dometic AC unit. They are not sending 12 volts to the board (source) they are establishing a ground path.
Here is the original Sunline wiring diagram for the roof AC unit and the furnace which runs off the same T stat. This is a sink setup. You jump to ground to make the AC or the furnace run.
Since the roof AC unit needs a ground path established to run, if you convert to a Dinosaur furnace board that needs a sourcing wiring, do you need to rewire in a separate T stat just for the furnace?
Thanks
John
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Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
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09-19-2017, 05:07 PM
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#42
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Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 48
SUN #5167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
I'm thinking the same thoughts as ggrvguy is. Here is a recap of the list with some added context.
1. Make sure the burner area is clean. And as far into the heat chamber as a flash light can see. Sounds like you did this.
2. The spark gap on the electrode is supposed to be in the 1/8" distance range. Do you recall this? Also make sure the porcelain insulator is not cracked.
3. The flame sense has to be working right. This could be where your issue is. Remember the basic electricity rule of thumb that it takes 10,000 volts to jump an inch. The flame sense circuit works on a millivolt signal feed back coming from the heated electrode. When the flame is burning, it heats the metal electrode and sends this millivolt signal back to the PC board for a flame sense feedback. While the ignition voltage can jump and burn through a semi bad connection, the flame sense feedback may not make it back through a rusted or bad connection. Check the wire connection on the electrode, is it a good connection? And check back at the PC board.
4. Assuming you made it through the 3 above, it sort of points to the PC board having issues. If the flame sense feedback is not working, it will go into ignition fault all the time which sounds like what you have going on.
Here is something to "listen" to. While outside, when the burner fires off, does it stay burning "all" the time until the gas valve clunk shuts off? Meaning, the gas valve is working, the igniter is working, the roaring sound of a correct burn is working, but all the burning stops when the gas valve shuts back down. If a good burn stops and starts with the gas valve, then the flame sense may not have been made and the control board shuts the burner back down. If the burner is sputtering during the entire burn cycle then something may be wrong in the electrode or burner area not allowing a correct burn.
You need to sort out if the burn is good or not and then if the burn is good, this point to the flame sense may be the problem.
Hope this helps and report back findings.
John
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Thanks this is good info to have, I know for sure the single wire contact point on the electrode was rusty and I didn't want to mess with it ..knowing me I would have broke the electrode
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09-19-2017, 06:00 PM
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#43
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,357
SUN #2097
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I think if it fires there is no problem with the electrodes other wise it would not light at all staying lit seems to be the issue. Flame sense once it's lit seem to be the issue I'm leaning towards the board they seem to be the most fragile I have replaced a good hand full of them.
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09-19-2017, 06:52 PM
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#44
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Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 48
SUN #5167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainah
I think if it fires there is no problem with the electrodes other wise it would not light at all staying lit seems to be the issue. Flame sense once it's lit seem to be the issue I'm leaning towards the board they seem to be the most fragile I have replaced a good hand full of them.
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I may have to pull the board and take it to camping world to have it tested...which sucks cause it's a 2.5 hour drive to my camp from home then another hour + drive to camping world..
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09-19-2017, 07:22 PM
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#45
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,656
SUN #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sthill
I may have to pull the board and take it to camping world to have it tested...which sucks cause it's a 2.5 hour drive to my camp from home then another hour + drive to camping world..
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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The board is Atwood part no. 31501
Here are a few places that sells them. I never bought from the E bay place so do not know them. Amazon I have bought from just not that seller.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=atwood+31501
https://www.amazon.com/Atwood-31501-...s=Atwood+31501
The electrode is Atwood part no. 37057
Sold here and other places. https://www.amazon.com/Atwood-37057-...ZX8M4D3AXRKJD5
How much is gas and time for a 5 hour drive?
You said the electrode connection was badly rusted, The high voltage may jump through the corrosion but the millivolt feed back for the flame sense may not. They both use the same wire and the same connection.
See this post by member vcrt (Rich) as he had a badly rusted electrode and that stopped his ignition. http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tml#post136729
Hope this helps
John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
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09-20-2017, 07:07 AM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,357
SUN #2097
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Iron is pretty conductive (FE2O3) white corrosion is altogether different. Brighten the connections up with steel wool and see what happens.
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09-20-2017, 10:15 AM
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#47
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: New York
Posts: 21
SUN #9624
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I had the same problem. I have one of these board testers and replaced a board last week for a customer having the same symptoms. I also checked the gas pressure but that was ok. This board tester would be cheaper than your gas and time.
https://www.amazon.com/Dinosaur-Elec.../dp/B0031NHWYU
__________________
Aaron
2005 Sunline T2753
2018 Chevrolet 1500 V8 5.3L LT Crew Cab
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09-20-2017, 03:21 PM
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#48
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,357
SUN #2097
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The tester is nice but it's about 3/4 the cost of a board for some thing you may only use once.
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09-20-2017, 07:16 PM
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#49
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,656
SUN #89
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That tester was like $14.00 this morning when I checked. It is now $55... Boy need to act quick on Amazon some times....
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
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09-25-2017, 07:51 AM
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#50
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Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 48
SUN #5167
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Ok , so I get to camp late Thursday night when I wake up Friday I put on heat and raise T stat all the way up , just figured I'd try it and see what happens..i get the same result burner ignites and goes out the typical 3 times and that's it ...so I say ok I have to run to store and I'll dig into this when I get back...well a hour and a half later when I get back I hear the furnace running ...walk into camper and realized I left it on at 90 it's running and my camper is at 84 degrees ....
So I shut off and wait a while and try it again and it works...
How can this be working all of a sudden ...?
It worked perfectly all weekend ...
I'm very confused since I have not touched it since last week ...and now I have nothing to troubleshoot and even tho it ran perfectly all weekend I have no confidence in my heater ,not knowing how it just started to work on its own ...
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09-26-2017, 10:33 AM
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#51
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: New York
Posts: 21
SUN #9624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sthill
Ok , so I get to camp late Thursday night when I wake up Friday I put on heat and raise T stat all the way up , just figured I'd try it and see what happens..i get the same result burner ignites and goes out the typical 3 times and that's it ...so I say ok I have to run to store and I'll dig into this when I get back...well a hour and a half later when I get back I hear the furnace running ...walk into camper and realized I left it on at 90 it's running and my camper is at 84 degrees ....
So I shut off and wait a while and try it again and it works...
How can this be working all of a sudden ...?
It worked perfectly all weekend ...
I'm very confused since I have not touched it since last week ...and now I have nothing to troubleshoot and even tho it ran perfectly all weekend I have no confidence in my heater ,not knowing how it just started to work on its own ...
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Still sounds like an intermittent board issue or loose wire to me.
__________________
Aaron
2005 Sunline T2753
2018 Chevrolet 1500 V8 5.3L LT Crew Cab
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09-26-2017, 10:38 AM
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,357
SUN #2097
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If it were mine I put a board in it.
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09-26-2017, 10:39 AM
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#53
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Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 48
SUN #5167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainah
If it were mine I put a board in it.
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Thats what I was looking for other opinions ...
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09-27-2017, 08:45 AM
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#54
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 182
SUN #5443
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If you are going to replace the board go with a Fan 50 Plus Pins from Dinosaur. The only time we replaced using the mfg's board was if it was under warranty. They are more reliable and have a three year warranty. As for the board testers, we were told by the mfg's that if a board tests bad it is bad but if a board tests good it still could be bad so we just hung a new board which 99% of the time solved the issue.
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09-27-2017, 08:47 AM
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#55
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Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 48
SUN #5167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazedave
If you are going to replace the board go with a Fan 50 Plus Pins from Dinosaur. The only time we replaced using the mfg's board was if it was under warranty. They are more reliable and have a three year warranty. As for the board testers, we were told by the mfg's that if a board tests bad it is bad but if a board tests good it still could be bad so we just hung a new board which 99% of the time solved the issue.
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Ok sounds good ..
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09-29-2017, 07:02 AM
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#56
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,656
SUN #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazedave
If you are going to replace the board go with a Fan 50 Plus Pins from Dinosaur. The only time we replaced using the mfg's board was if it was under warranty. They are more reliable and have a three year warranty. As for the board testers, we were told by the mfg's that if a board tests bad it is bad but if a board tests good it still could be bad so we just hung a new board which 99% of the time solved the issue.
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Hi Dave,
How did you deal with the required thermostat wiring change needed to get the Fan 50 Plus Pin board to work? The Dinosaur board site says you have to change the T stat to being a positive 12 volt signal and not the original negative 12 volt ground signal the Atwood board needed?
I never hooked one of these up and trying to learn here the what to do's for the future.
This reply here has more info on this http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tml#post139645
Thanks
John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
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09-29-2017, 07:07 AM
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#57
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,656
SUN #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sthill
Ok , so I get to camp late Thursday night when I wake up Friday I put on heat and raise T stat all the way up , just figured I'd try it and see what happens..i get the same result burner ignites and goes out the typical 3 times and that's it ...so I say ok I have to run to store and I'll dig into this when I get back...well a hour and a half later when I get back I hear the furnace running ...walk into camper and realized I left it on at 90 it's running and my camper is at 84 degrees ....
So I shut off and wait a while and try it again and it works...
How can this be working all of a sudden ...?
It worked perfectly all weekend ...
I'm very confused since I have not touched it since last week ...and now I have nothing to troubleshoot and even tho it ran perfectly all weekend I have no confidence in my heater ,not knowing how it just started to work on its own ...
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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You learned some things, the electrodes inside and the new burner screen are working.
However, do you still have a rusty connection on the igniter wire to the electrode? While the high voltage can burn through the rust, the millivolt flame sense feed back may not work right.
This seems to point to 1 of the 3 or a combo.
1. Bad igniter wire connection affecting the flame sense feedback.
2. Intermittent board going in and out and the flame sense not working consistently.
3. The actual igniter wiring has an issue. Doubt this one but ya never know.
When you find it, let us know.
John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
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09-29-2017, 07:09 AM
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#58
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Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 48
SUN #5167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
You learned some things, the electrodes inside and the new burner screen are working.
However, do you still have a rusty connection on the igniter wire to the electrode? While the high voltage can burn through the rust, the millivolt flame sense feed back may not work right.
This seems to point to 1 of the 3 or a combo.
1. Bad igniter wire connection affecting the flame sense feedback.
2. Intermittent board going in and out and the flame sense not working consistently.
3. The actual igniter wiring has an issue. Doubt this one but ya never know.
When you find it, let us know.
John
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Yes the wire to the back of the electrode is still rusty, when the furnace started working I didn't want to take it apart ...
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10-18-2017, 06:01 AM
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#59
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Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 48
SUN #5167
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So I ordered the circuit board ..should be here today fans 50 plus..
Hopefully this is easy yo put in as they claim...ill find put next week she I get back up to camp
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10-18-2017, 08:42 AM
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#60
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,656
SUN #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sthill
So I ordered the circuit board ..should be here today fans 50 plus..
Hopefully this is easy yo put in as they claim...ill find put next week she I get back up to camp
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Hope this solves your issue. Did you get the igniter too? If it is so rusted your afraid the wire is going to fall off, maybe it needs to be replaced?
Yes, please report back on the Dinosoar Fan plus 50 board install. I have read you need to change the T stat wiring setup when converting but so far no one has posted who changed one if this is a need or not.
Thanks
John
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__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
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