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08-05-2018, 08:22 PM
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#21
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 50
SUN #10689
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The black water flush system has a vacuum breaker plumbed in between the exterior garden hose inlet fitting and the flushing nozzle in the black water tank.
This vacuum breaker acts like a check valve, allowing fresh water in , and stopping the flow of black water back out .
My guess is that a fresh water inlet fitting with a check valve inhibits the water pressure enough to not properly flush the black water tank?
All that said, the flush system is properly plumbed and connected as it came from the factory.
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08-05-2018, 10:10 PM
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#22
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,658
SUN #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flymerc
When I turned on the hose and opened the toilet ball valve it was painfully obvious that water pressure alone would not clear the debris clogging the flush nozzle.
The only option I have at this point is to remove the flush nozzle and mechanically clear the obstruction.
Here's the $10,000 question; does anyone know if the flush nozzle can be backed out of the adapter hole without removing the adapter? (the flush fitting has tefloyn tape on it's threads, indicating it is threaded into the tank adapter)
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See if this helps.
Your pic here
That gray fitting with the Teflon tape on it is only a pipe fitting. It is "not" part of the actual spray nozzle. It has 1/2" pipe thread pitch threads (but is straight running thread) and is not NPT so not a tapered fitting. The white swivel nut on the PEX seals real well to those gray fittings as there is nice smooth internal bevel on the fitting for the PEX grommet to seal against and the white nut will bottom out on grommet compression pressure as it too is straight running threads.
Now to the actual tank sprayer nozzle. You can unscrew that gray fitting right out of the actual tank sprayer. It should come right out. This is what you will see once it comes out
This first pic is the "kit" that Sunline parts dept sold me back in 2005 when they were still in business. I bought this kit to add to my 2004 T2499 at the time after the camper was made.
Here is a close up on that pic of just the nozzle itself. And a gray elbow fitting like your straight gray one.
The lighting is such you can see the 1/2" NPT molded in threads inside the tanks sprayer nozzle. Sorry I did not have a pic actual end inside the tank but I can explain it. Those older memories are still semi intact!
At the end of the sprayer, it had approx a 3/4" OD capped off pipe so to speak and went about 2" maybe 2.5 " long into the tank with approx 1/16" holes in it, (the holes may have been smaller, ~ 1/32" maybe. OR they are less then that but that may be why they plug so fast.) Some holes where molded in at an angle, some straight out the end of the pipe capped off end. This 3/4" pipe then was molded to the outer flange you see in the pic. with the 3 mounting holes.
If you unscrew the gray fitting and using a flashlight and a mirror you can look inside the tank sprayer. It may be filled with gunk. Using a large drill bit inserted by hand and slowly rotating 180 degrees or so as that may fill the flutes with some gunk and you pull it out. Keep trying this until no more comes out.
Then find a piece of solid wire or TIG welding rod or other poker. Can be steel, copper or even plastic. Something with like 1/64" (0.015") OD to no more than 1/32" (0.032") OD and about 6 to 8" long. You may have some positive luck poking out the holes straight in the end cap. The ones on an angle, well try your best.
I just looked on the B & B site and they show a cryptic pic of the nozzle. They call it "ABS Tank Spray Head Part #571 Sprayer" Shows up on page 1 of this PDF in the bottom right hand corner.
http://www.bandbmolders.com/wp-conte...2-Install-.pdf
If you cannot get a 1/64" probe to get into any hole you have a few options.
1. Call B & B (phone on the bottom of the page) and see what size holes they actually have in the sprayer. If they are smaller than 1/64" I would be shocked but I never measured what with in the head end.
2. You could take 1/64" or 1/32" long shank drill bit and if your drill chuck can fit in the hole, drill 3 new holes in the end cap.
3. OR, screw a pipe plug in the tank sprayer and abandon it. Buy a Camco rotary sprayer https://www.amazon.com/Camco-40126-T.../dp/B000BUU5TU
Here is a video on it
Hope this helps
John
PS. My 2004 T-2475 has this factory option sprayer in it but the camper is over at my son's house and I cannot see what Sunline did on the tank mounting. We had a very unfortunate mishap with that tank sprayer tonight and odds are very high it will not be the same factory install after we get done reworking it.
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Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
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08-05-2018, 10:21 PM
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#23
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,658
SUN #89
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It seems now Camco also make a straight flush head. https://www.amazon.com/Camco-40123-Q.../dp/B000EDOSME
There use to be a brand called "Quickie Flush" that was a straight head but I cannot seem to find it for sale anymore. Maybe Camco bought them out.
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Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
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08-06-2018, 02:50 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 125
SUN #9247
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I liked that video, wish he had a toilet on his lid and showed how several "full bowl" dumps did in cleaning the tank bottom... That's what I always do.
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Norm 01 T267SR
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08-06-2018, 07:21 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 143
SUN #7990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
PS. My 2004 T-2475 has this factory option sprayer in it but the camper is over at my son's house and I cannot see what Sunline did on the tank mounting. We had a very unfortunate mishap with that tank sprayer tonight and odds are very high it will not be the same factory install after we get done reworking it.
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Here is the pic of the factory sprayer on the side of the tank on the T-2475. I did find it odd they put it on the lower part of the tank by the drain.
Also is a pic of the now unattached inside fitting, this was the best pic I could get with my phone shoved under the cabinet with all the pipes. It either came unscrewed or broke off, cant really tell from the pic.
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
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Current Camper: 2006 Sunline T-264SR
Previous Camper: 1998 Coleman Mesa
Tow Vehicle: 2002 Chevrolet Avalanche 2500, 8.1L, 4X4
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08-06-2018, 08:22 PM
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#26
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,658
SUN #89
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The spray head on the T2475 looks like what flymerc has on his limited pic with something sealing the spray head to the tank.
Sunline may have solvent welded the spray head to the tank. They are both ABS plastic and it would work.
If one sort of digs into the bonding "stuff" (whatever it is,) if it is very hard, it may be ABS weld cement. If is pliable like caulk, then they used something else that could be scraped off with very little heat. If you use heat do not use a lot as the tank will deform.
To the broken off hose fitting... that may be the B & B molding water inlet fitting broke off. Talk about a broken pipe in a bad spot...
Thanks for the pics
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Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
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09-01-2018, 10:23 AM
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#27
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 50
SUN #10689
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The factory did in fact "solvent weld" the flush fitting onto the black water tank, and thus I was unable to remove it.
Instead of removal, I took John's expert knowledgeable advise and simply drilled several new larger 1/8" holes into the flush fitting using a 1/4" drive mini drill Chuck and a 1/4" drive ratchet & socket.
I then reconnected the PEX fitting to the flush nozzle , hooked up a water hose and Presto had a working black water tank flush system!
Thank you John for your knowledge and advise!
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09-01-2018, 08:22 PM
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#28
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,658
SUN #89
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Glad you got it working. That is a special long shank drill bit. Not common amongst the average homeowner. The drill chuck is neat too! You must has access to some kind of machine shop or tool supply. Great!
I have been using tank sprayers since 2004 starting with one like yours and later using the rotary head and never had one plug up. But... I always flush the tank after a campout/dump of the tank. If there is a long line at the dump station, I sort of dump quickly to not hold up the line and then clean up at home as I have access to be able to dump into my septic system. If no line, I tank flush at dump station.
I suspect the prior owner did not flush often. Then solids of any tiny size can form over or in the nozzle holes and in time crust over to never flow again. With that type of sprayer nozzle, water/waste can flow into the head when the tank gets full enough and stay there if not flushed out.
I have been using the Camco rotary spray head since 2007. That has larger holes then the Sunline factory one and it also has a built in check valve in the head so water that enters the head will stop from backing into the water supply line. Still left unflushed for a really long time after several unflushed tank dumps, it too could crust over.
Point being, if you have a tank sprayer, one needs to use it often to not have debris build up and harden up in the head. I never thought of this before as I always tank flush to keep the tanks clean.
Thanks for sharing your resolution.
John
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Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
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09-02-2018, 03:32 AM
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#29
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 50
SUN #10689
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You have a astounding attention to detail John, good eye!!
You are correct sir, the drill bit is a 6" long #30 aircraft drill bit from
http://https://www.yardstore.com/6-h...d-drill-bit-30
I used a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel to shorten the drill bit to about 4" in length, as access to the flush fitting is very tight and the full 6" bit would not fit between the flush fitting and trailer frame at full length.
As the flush fitting is plastic, it was easy drilling by hand. I did use a 1/4" craftsman ratchet with a 1/4" socket to aide with applying pressure to the drill bit and making it easier to rotate the mini drill chuck.
Needless to say, we're happy campers now with an operapable black water flush system!
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09-02-2018, 08:15 PM
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#30
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,658
SUN #89
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Good ingenuity with your drilling method. A sharp bit will drill that ABS plastic fairly easily, even by hand, literally...
Yes, having a tank flusher that works is a good thing. Very handy and a good upgrade.
Thanks
John
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Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC
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