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Old 06-29-2011, 03:10 PM   #1
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Furnance valve question?

So i'm giving up on repairing my furnance, but i want to know if the valve is in the off position will i get leaks from where i have the missing parts? I want to use the rest of the propane accessrories, stove fridge etc.
Thanks
Steve in Ct
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Old 07-01-2011, 11:59 AM   #2
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If you are going to long term not use the furnace, ideally undo the brass cap fitting feeding the gas valve and install a tapered end plug in it. The plug looks like this and you can find them at Lowes



Once you cap it off, test with soap bubles for a leak when you pressurize the system back up.

The valve istself is a good shut off if no dirt ever made it's way into the valve seat however the pipe plug is a postitve no worries approach. In case you ever want to return to the furnace, tape off the opening to the gas valve to keep dirt out of it. Wrap a plastic baggie over the fitting then tape the baggie on. Keeps the tape goo from sticking to the sealing surface of the fitting.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 07-01-2011, 06:26 PM   #3
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Is there a difference between LP flared tubing and other flared tubing?

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Old 07-01-2011, 07:19 PM   #4
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Tubing is the same but I think the flare is a double flare requires a special flare tool.
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Old 07-01-2011, 08:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363 View Post
Is there a difference between LP flared tubing and other flared tubing?

jim
In the US there are 2 general types of flare fittings. 45 degree and 37 degree and the 2 will not interchange at all.

The 37 degree is usually higher pressure and more precision. Hydraulic systems use this commonly as well as other higher pressure systems.

The 45 degree flare, which we find in our campers are more for lower pressures and usually softer tubing like copper.

The double flare as was mentioned when made correct is a better seal. It takes an anvil to go with the standard flaring tool to create the second flare part in copper tubing. It takes more skill and time to create double flares.

I have found Sunline used single flares. While double flare is for sure a better seal, I myself do not know that it is law to only use that on LP gas. I have seen lot's of single flares on tubing outside the TT industry that are even more severe in duty and pressure.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:04 AM   #6
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Yes you are correct on the angle also the 37 is generally a steel fitting. The reason I would think if not it should be double flare is the tendency for the flare to crack at the taper if it's only flared once. Personally I flare all my gas fittings double all though the pressure is low I still would rather have a flare that is stronger and less prone to cracking only takes a minute or two longer I think it's worth it.
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Old 07-02-2011, 07:33 AM   #7
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I think I remember having double flared lines on auto brake lines? Maybe the vibration is the reason to have extra strength.

Our shop did hydrolic, LP and brake lines and the LP lines were a different angle but not sure why. We had a mechanic use the wrong angle flare of the LP and then over tightened it. That caused the flare to be cut which gave a leak and soon we had another repair. When I saw the picture of the plug it didn't say even what the angle was, so my question. For all I knew they had a "universal" flared plug.

All I know for sure is to not tighten the copper lines so much that the flares are damaged.


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Old 07-02-2011, 08:20 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363 View Post
I think I remember having double flared lines on auto brake lines?
You are correct. We had a tool that double-flared steel brake lines quickly and easily. Double flares can withstand more pressure.

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Old 07-02-2011, 03:51 PM   #9
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I don't think you'll see brass on any high pressure line. Hold two plugs together at the angle if it's 90 degrees their fine for gas.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:20 PM   #10
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So will be ok if i just use the plug above? And how tight is tight, i do have a tendency to tighten things a bit much sometimes
Steve in Ct
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackflamevt View Post
So will be ok if i just use the plug above? And how tight is tight, i do have a tendency to tighten things a bit much sometimes
Steve in Ct
The plug above will fit the standard gas fittings Sunline used. As far as tight, do not go wild with it or you will twist the tubing. But it does need to be gas fitting tight. I know how tight it that??? You learn it by doing over the years. Use 2 wrenches, one on the nut and one on the plug so they will not twist the tubing and tighten it up. If you after a torque... your most likely in the 20 to 25 foot pound range if you know how tight that feels on a 3/8" fitting.

I did find this. Copper.org: Copper Tube Handbook: IX. Flared Joints It talks about using single flares for LP service is acceptable so Sunline was at least in accordance of the regulation listed in that article. That site may not be gospel but it is from a good source.

I do fully agree a double flare is better and have no issues making them or using them.

As a point of reference, our campers LP system where these flared fittings are used is a 1/2 psi system. We are not talking a lot of pressure here. All systems down stream of the main tank regulator are low pressure 11" WC. Except the range and that is 10" WC. as is has a second regulator on it.

Good luck.

John

PS. Use 2 wrenches on the furnace gas valve when taking it off too so you do not twist the tubing.
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
The plug above will fit the standard gas fittings Sunline used. As far as tight, do not go wild with it or you will twist the tubing. But it does need to be gas fitting tight. I know how tight it that??? You learn it by doing over the years. Use 2 wrenches, one on the nut and one on the plug so they will not twist the tubing and tighten it up. If you after a torque... your most likely in the 20 to 25 foot pound range if you know how tight that feels on a 3/8" fitting.

I did find this. Copper.org: Copper Tube Handbook: IX. Flared Joints It talks about using single flares for LP service is acceptable so Sunline was at least in accordance of the regulation listed in that article. That site may not be gospel but it is from a good source.

I do fully agree a double flare is better and have no issues making them or using them.

As a point of reference, our campers LP system where these flared fittings are used is a 1/2 psi system. We are not talking a lot of pressure here. All systems down stream of the main tank regulator are low pressure 11" WC. Except the range and that is 10" WC. as is has a second regulator on it.

Good luck.

John

PS. Use 2 wrenches on the furnace gas valve when taking it off too so you do not twist the tubing.
Ok John you say it's a standard fitting for our TT, is the 3/8 just the flare measurement? because my threaded part is more like a 1/2"?
Steve in Ct
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:28 AM   #13
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3/8 copper line, fittings match.
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackflamevt View Post
Ok John you say it's a standard fitting for our TT, is the 3/8 just the flare measurement? because my threaded part is more like a 1/2"?
Steve in Ct
Hi Steve, mainah said it quick, I have a few moments I'll add some more

Sorry for the confusion. Welcome to the world of pipe fittings....

In the world of tubing sizes they go by the OD of the tubing as the size and then there is wall thickness that changes so the inside keeps getting smaller, OD stays the same but a 3/8" OD tube will measure close to 0.375 if not dead on. The fittings are designed to work with the tubing and the fitting has to be bigger to allow full flow of the tubing.

In the world of pipe, pipe is a nominal size. Here they go by schedule to create a pressure and wall thickness. For example a piece of 3/8" schedule 40 pipe actually measures 0.675" OD with a wall thickness of 0.109". If you get stronger 3/8" pipe it jumps to schedule 80 the OD stays the same but the ID shrinks as the wall thickness is 0.126". In pipe the size is a nominal. The size really does not mate up with OD or ID as a 3/8" sch 40 pipe has an ID of 0.493"

Now to the fittings, that picture I showed above out of Lowes is in fact a 3/8" tubing 45 degree flare fitting. The fittings themselves have to be bigger to not restrict the flow of the tubing that is 0.375"

Here is a link off the Watts web site. The 39-P are the flare plugs 45ļ Flare Fittings, Brass & Tubular, Watts

and a 39-P-6 is 3/8" Look under approvals tab
No. 39-P Brass Flare Plugs, 45ļ Flare Fittings, Brass & Tubular - Watts

These things are so industry common in sizes they do not even have a cut sheet on the exact dimensions. I'm sure if I dug deep enough I can find the dimensions but 1/2" ~ 9/16" is about the thread OD on a 3/8" tubing fitting.

If your tubing measures 3/8" OD, which it even looks like it in the pic, then that Watts fitting is the right one.

Good luck

John
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