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Old 10-19-2019, 05:39 AM   #1
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Soft spot in shower corner t-1950

I just found a a soft spot in the right rear corner of my shower floor, it actually pushes down causing the bottom to separate from the wall. Is there any way to get under there to see whatís going on?
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:48 AM   #2
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Hi,

I can try and help. I happen to have a 2004 T1950 all apart right now and have lots of pics of it. Mine has heavy water damage inside the walls. In my case I knew that and I'm going to restore it. See here 2004 T1950 Restoration Project - (Ugly Picture Heavy)

There is no easy way to get to the under the bottom of a T1950 shower pan. That floor plan has the shower tucked away in the left rear corner of the camper. But there is a way to get to it from outside the camper. More on the how to do this after we understand where your soft spot location is. As we need to understand what left and right is in relation to how you are looking at it.

You said,
Quote:
right rear corner of my shower floor,
When we are talking campers, it is like talking cars/trucks etc. The left side of the camper is the drivers side of the car or sometimes called the non door side or the street side of the camper.

The right side of the camper is the passenger side of the car, or known as the door side of the camper or the curb side.

What is you viewing direction when you call it "right side? I'm thinking you mean you are standing in the bathroom looking into the shower stall and the soft sport is on your right at the rear corner. Which is the rear left wall side of the camper. Meaning the left wall rear corner of the camper has some issues.

Is that left rear corner wall of the camper the area your soft spot is in?

Any chance of posting a pic of the separation you are seeing when you push it down? Pics really help in these cases.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:52 AM   #3
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Yes it’s the left corner. The right if you are standing looking into shower.
The floor pan actually separates when you stand in that corner, and returns to normal when you get off. The rest of the shower is sturdy.
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:03 AM   #4
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That sounds like you "might" have a left rear corner molding leak or a left roof corner leak or both. Water can wick in the corner molding when the old putty tape dries up and separates allowing water to wick in. There is a way to help seal that off, but the water may already be in there. The roof leak can come from cracked caulking around the corner area. Water then flows down and festers in the bottom of the camper, rotting the floor area out.

If you want to see if you have a leak and not take anything apart, you can scan the shower walls with a moisture meter and it will tell you if the wall is wet behind the plastic shower surrounds and where it starts. From those readings then you and we can better predict what caused the problem and how much will be involved in the repair.

See here for the moisture meter. Moisture Meters For Inspecting a Camper

This is all fixable, the materials are not that bad but it will take time. From your other post, you seemed able to do the work yourself, and we can help with the "how to" do the repair if it comes to that

Hope this helps

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Old 10-19-2019, 11:09 AM   #5
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Thanks, I’ll have to pick one up, it appears it’s just the corner under that corner. The frame that holds the bumper also is not securely attached to the camper. I can actually shake it up and down.
I really want to see what’s going on under there
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:16 PM   #6
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The moisture meter really helps to show what is going on. Make sure you are using the "wall" mode.

It can scan through wood, carpet, plastic, rubber, fiberglass, vinyl which about covers most all things in the camper.

Metal however will cause it to read a false number. Something about the density of metal, copper, steel etc. give very high readings. So on an aluminum sided camper, you cannot scan from the outside in as the siding tricks the meter. But, you can scan from the inside. The meter only reads about 5/8" to 3/4" deep into an object. So with 1/8" luan walls, 1/8" ceiling and 1/2" thick wood flooring, it can see a lot of what is going on.

On the bottom of the camper is a black plastic waterproof membrane. You can scan up through that to find wet insulation that may not show up when doing a top down scan of the floor inside.

There is metal in the camper. Wires, small conduit pieces, large staples to name a few. But those items give a high blip on a very small area. ,Many are silver dollar size of smaller. Water damage is rarely small. It is often inches to feet in area.

Everyone who owns a camper, new or old, is encouraged to have a moisture and understand how to use it. Catching a leak in its early stages is so much easier to deal with then after it has been ongoing for a few years. And yes, leaks in a wall can be going on for years and you not see anything inside. Vinyl wallpaper is a very good moisture barrier. And inspecting a camper before buying it, also helps. You can decide water damage found is too much for you, or you at least know there are some issues and you may be able to get a lower price.

Let us know if you need more when you get your meter.

John
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Old 10-25-2019, 06:19 AM   #7
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I got my moisture meter and couldn’t get a reading in and around the shower area, I did find 90% above the bed in the outside corner and wall. There is slight wrinkles in ceiling in that area. The roof is also soft in the same spot.
What’s my next move to remedy the shower issues and now this?
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Old 10-25-2019, 11:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtr727 View Post
I got my moisture meter and couldnít get a reading in and around the shower area, I did find 90% above the bed in the outside corner and wall. There is slight wrinkles in ceiling in that area. The roof is also soft in the same spot.
Whatís my next move to remedy the shower issues and now this?
On the shower, that is good news on the moisture scan. It means at least there is not an active leak or one that is wet in the walls. When you said you couldn't get a reading, was the readings 0% to 5% approx? I'm also assuming you are using the meter on wall mode.

Assuming you where in the 5% and below, even 8% ish, there are 2 things I can think of now to cause the moving shower basin.

First and most likely. I'll explain a little how the shower basin support is made under the basin. The shower basin is seperate from the wall surround, on purpose. The basin has a wood platform, 1/2" OSB, that has a few 2 x 3 legs holding it up from the camper floor. On top of the OSB decking, there is an approx 1/2" to maybe 5/8" thick styrofoam sheet. The raised deck is needed to create room for the plumbing drain. The styrofoam sheet is used to allow the basin to flex under weight, but yet still give total support. Since the basin can flex, that is why it is separate from the surround. The surround walls do not move, the basing does. If there are not separated then the basin would crack being so thin.

These pics help show what I described.






If you put the meter on the basin and scan down, you might get something or it would be all 0%. The meter can only scan 5/8" to 3/4" deep and there may not be any moisture there.

But, you can try this. Go under the camper and scan up. The meter will read through the black plastic cover. It is possible that water is in the basement/floor and it may have weakened the rear wall sill plate. If this rear shower support (2 x 3) is on a soft footing, then the basin can flex in that left rear corner. If the meter hits metal while you scan, it will peg high numbers. Just so you know. Water will be in a large area.

Scan from bottom up


These basin deck supports (2 x 3's )are the ones I thinking may have an issue


The second area, for reasons not yet known, the styrofoam sheet may have collapsed or deteritoed. I myself have never seen this happen, but it is not beyond possible.

On the wet right rear roof corner being 90% and the rubber being soft, that is characteristic of a roof leak. Try scanning down the entire right rear inside corner wall board all the way to the floor and the floor. All roof water tries to go down. If there is enough volume it will make it into the floor. I know the water heater is in that corner, but if you lift the bed board up, try and scan the floor as close to that corner as you can.

And scan the black plastic under that right rear corner. The floor may be OK, (hoping) but the basement under the floor can be wet.

Here is a tell tail of a rotting rear wall sill plate or floor joist on the back wall. If the hex screws along the back wall have rust on them, odds are favorable they are rusting from the inside out. Take some of the screws out and look at the threads. If they are pristine clean good. If the clean threads but rusted heads, then the head rust is from the outside in (less likely the issue). If the threads are rusted and filled with rot goo, the rear wall sill plate is water damaged (more likely) .


So what to do now? Try scanning with the meter like a stated above. This will help you sort out more of what is wrong. Come back with more info and we can give some what to do's. Pics really help in these cases. I'm only going by the wording you are using. There can be things in the pics we see that you did not realize. Then we can tell you to go check some more in those areas or give you some help on what to do.

The right rear roof leak, take some pics of that corner roof caulking. It has to be sealed up for the winter. Or the camper covered. When time presents itself you will open up the roof and repair. The meter can scan the roof as long as there is not a mold fungus growing on it, as it will see the mold and peg about 100% all over. Scanning the roof can tell you how big a radius the problem has moved to. I have done corner roof repairs before on approx a 3 ft radius from the corner and did not have to take up the whole roof. Not that bad of a repair. How bad all this gets is how long the leak has been ongoing and how bad the rot damage is. If you caught it early, fixing is much easier.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 10-25-2019, 04:13 PM   #9
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Here's a couple pictures of where I'm getting high readings
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20191025_160209.jpg (72.3 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 20191025_160230.jpg (75.6 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 20191025_160336.jpg (49.0 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 20191025_160441.jpg (103.3 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 20191025_160318.jpg (33.0 KB, 4 views)
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Old 10-25-2019, 04:17 PM   #10
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I checked the roof, I only found an approx. 3x3 ft section in that corner above the bed. 100%
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Old 10-27-2019, 05:03 AM   #11
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Ok it gets worse, it seams the camper box can be pulled away from the trailer frame in the corner below the shower. If you step on the bumper you can see where two bolts that attach the frame to the body pull downward . I think I got more than I bargained for here.
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Old 10-27-2019, 10:40 PM   #12
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By your pics and your checks so far, you have a water infection and possibly in a few places.

Did you get a chance to scan from the bottom up on the black plastic membrane? This could help tell how far across the bottom of the camper the wetness goes.

On the left rear wall by the shower, by your description it appears the rear floor joists have water damage. This would help explain the shower floor flexing as there is no support to hold it up. The rusted rear siding screws also point to some water damage in the area. A bottom scan may help show how far it goes. There may be a left rear corner molding leak as it seems there is water damage on the left rear area.

The right rear wall over the bed area that is showing the 79% over the widow and the ceiling pic of the wavy ceiling board, the roof leak has made it down the walls. The corner molding may also be leaking making it worse. A bottom scan here can tell how far the water went under the camper. The right side bottom sill plate may have water damage.

The roof being 100% about a 3ft radius from the corner, helps explain the wet right wall area and the wavy ceiling.

What you are showing/describing is fixable. Basic woodworking skills and tools are needed along with "time". To go about correcting this, here are the basics; I am recommended you fix this from the outside in. Not taking down the inside try to fix it. There is less wall damage if you take it apart from the outside.

The rear wall siding, and both corner moldings will need to come off. That includes removing the water heater, the rear window and the rear DOT lights. This rear wall area will expose a lot of the issues.

The right rear wall has high odds you will need to remove the siding from the rear wall up to the entry door to repair the rear right side wall. The rear wall windows, fender and entry door need to come out.

The roof, the rear molding, the awning if you have one, the right rear gutter rail to come loose until you reach the end of the water damage. Then you can fold back the rubber roof and see how the the water damage goes over the ceiling area to be repaired. You can then sort out if you need to lift up any more roof items to fold the roof mebran back further until you get to dry conditions.

An unknown right now is the floor system since you have not reported yet on that condition.

It will take time, but it is doable. The work is not hard by itself, but a lot of tasks. You are basically doing a semi large woodworking rebuild project. Take out the damaged wood, treat certain water stain but solid wood and rebuilding the bad wood you took out. Then put it back together. If you do not have a covered workshop, several of us have used a big tarp to cover over the unit when you not working on it. I have done it before the new barn came, it works.

I don't want to mislead you on the time part. If you can only work on it on weekends, you may be looking at several months. If you have a helper, it can go faster. The parts are not that bad in cost, but the time is high. These things always seem to take longer than you think.

You may also want to scan the front of the camper. Start at the ceiling and scan the wall all the way to the floor.

Several of our members have been through this. And we can help with how to do this, if you chose to take on the project. Here is a front wall rebuild. I finished the front wall project, just never finished all the post yet. This will give you an idea on some of what you would be doing. 2004 T2475 Repair - Project Camper No 2

Hope this helps

John
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Old 10-28-2019, 05:10 AM   #13
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Thanks for all the information, this is way too involved for me to attempt, I dont have the time or patience. I wish I could just have someone do the repair. I did the scan from underneath and got 0% reading, I also did the rest of the camper and all proved to be dry. So it appears my only issue is the rear wall and bed side wall and corner roof. Not sure what to do at this point, may have to live with it.
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Old 10-28-2019, 10:29 AM   #14
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OK, understand. Trying to help, here is an option if you are going to just live with it. Consider this a patch, it is not a total or even a half repair. But it can help if you are going to just live with it, to extend the life of the camper making it usable longer without major effort.

I'll do this in bullet points to present the thoughts, if you want more on these, what caulking and cleaning to buy/use etc, just ask. (just do not use silicone)

This plan assumes you will have limited time to do any kind of take it apart repair this winter. But this helps stop the incoming water, making what you have now not get worse.

1. A large need is to make sure the roof leak has stopped. The gutter rails caulk, the front & rear wall molding caulk needs to be addressed before winter if you are not storing the camper under a cover or in a building. This helps stop any more water intrusion. Pending the rear roof rubber situation, you might have to apply a small piece of Eternabond tape over the rear wall roof molding after the caulking cures.

2. The next need, ideally before winter, is to address the rear and front corner moldings, the right side and rear wall bedroom window putty tape flange seals. These putty tape seals dry up, crack, shrink and water wicks in. The front and rear corner moldings are classic ways water gets into a camper. Windows and doors have the same problem, but the corners are the worst due to the camper flexing and water beating down more in those areas. The need is to add the correct type of caulking to the exposed putty tape sealants that you can see from the outside. There is a need to clean the black mold and dirt off the exposed putty tape, then just apply the caulk. No need to take the camper apart.

3. If you do not have time to due 1 & 2 this year, buy a tarp and cover the entire back half of the camper walls too. Add a tarp over the roof at least to the front wall and pick this back up next spring.

The above 2 to 3 recommendations help stop more water from getting in. There may only be a need to buy 5 to 6 tubes of the correct caulk to do this. Cost ranges between $50 to $65 for caulking materials. Some more if you need a limited amount of the E bond tape. Time to do this, with 2 people working at it, one cleaning moldings at the ground level the 1st weekend, the other on the roof work, then applying the caulk, this may be 2 weekends or less work.

Next year or the year after when the timing is right, consider creating a patch for the shower floor issue. I do not know how bad the flexing is not being able to see it. The main thing is to not crack the shower basin. If the flexing is large, consider using the camps shower house until the basin is firmed up.

The shower basin patch will require some limited disassembly. You undo the 2 rear wall corners about 3 to 4 feet up the wall and slightly bend them away from the camper. Pull the water heater out. (the water heater is not a hard job, 1 hr total to remove) Then remove the bottom 2 sheets of siding. Odds are high you and going to find the rear floor joist band board water damaged and some of the wall studs attached to it. It is a double 2 x 3, the wall studs 1" x 1 1/2". Remove bad wood and replace as needed. You can cut out the rotted wall studs back to good wood and add new wood to fill in its place. Then address the shower basin support wood issue. How much more you want to do, is up to you. Then put the back wall siding back on, the water heater and the corners and recaulk the corners. This may be a 2 weekend job.

Granted you have not addressed the right wall situation or the roof, but the shower at least works then. If in time you like the camper enough, you can consider a patch on the roof and more on the right rear side wall.

This is by no means meaning your camper will last a long time after this limited patch repair, it will extend the life by a limited time with a smaller effort to do it. It will buy you time to have some fun and then figure out what you want to do long term.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 10-28-2019, 12:23 PM   #15
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Thanks again for all your help!
I may attempt the rear wall/shower issue as soon as I can.
I think the roof is sealed up but I'm going to go through it again and Double check the corners. we had a lot of rain the last couple days and I see no water coming in anywhere I believe the damage is probably old.
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Old 10-28-2019, 11:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtr727 View Post
I think the roof is sealed up but I'm going to go through it again and Double check the corners. we had a lot of rain the last couple days and I see no water coming in anywhere I believe the damage is probably old.
Just a quick FYI going by your wording, "I see no water coming in anywhere". Camper leaks are extremely evasive. They are not like a leak in a house where the drywall shows wet soon. Most camper leaks cannot be seen inside the living space by eye until they have been there a long time and affected the wood behind the wall board. Most leaks are seepers in the walls, ceiling and floor. Seepers meaning water wicks in, just does not pour in. Over time the water accumulates doing it's damage. The vinyl wall and ceiling paper make a great moisture barrier to keep water from being seen inside.

Since you have a moisture meter now, think about creating a written baseline with dates of wet to dry areas and the % numbers that spot/area shows. Even maybe put some a small piece of masking tape or painters tape if needed on the wall to identify the meter location. Then monitor those spots/areas with the meter over time. If the wet gets wetter or the edge of dry start increasing in moisture, then you know the moisture is increasing. After enough hot dry days and a totally sealed leak, the moisture may very slowly lower.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask away if you start the back wall if you need any help.

John
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