2000 Sunline Solaris T-2653 Water Heater Maintenance

[Chrisco1963]

Hello all,
It has been a while since my last posts, but i am happy to report that last year's camping trip was for the most part a success. Our new-to-us 2000 Solaris had a few things that needed to be addressed prior to camping, (i.e. roof seam repairs, wetness in the rear wall, tires/rims, hitch jack), but with those items addressed, we were able to get the camper to and from the our campsite with no problems.
While we we were camping on our "maiden voyage", there were a couple of snafus that we experienced that made us wonder what we could do to repair, but were minor things that we simply lived with as we weren't sure if it was normal or not. I vaguely recall reaching out to this forum, but cannot figure out how to find the threads in which they were addressed. For that, I apologize.

Before this year's camping trip (planned in July), I thought i would start the process of any repairs needed now, rather than waiting (even though we cannot easily enter the camper as it still has it's winter cover on it - good thing as we just had a a major snowstorm blow through three days ago!)

One issue that we noticed was with the water heater. We noticed that it would turn on (flame would light and "roar" as it heated the water, but would shut down seemingly immediately after lighting, then start up again. This fluctuating between lighting and shutting off was sporadic. Sometimes it would light and run normally. Sometimes it would light and shutdown, light and shutdown numerous times.
It seems that it would occur whether it was being called for or not. Meaning it would act this way whether we were drawing hot water from the faucets, or whether we were laying in bed at night (trying to sleep). It got to the point of
having to shut the heater switch (up front) off before going to bed, or leaving the site.
Any ideas of what may cause this?

Another issue we experienced was with the power inverter/charger/distribution box, that on occasion would run very loudly, but also would not seem to charge the batteries as efficiently, or as well as we thought they needed. I do recall John B. responding with a suggestion to possibly upgrade to a Precision Dynamics Charger and would seriously like to do that and have further information in how to do that (hint, hint).

Our "to do" list so far consists addressing the of hot water heater issues, power inverter/charger issues ,and further addressing additional replacement of roof and seam sealants (once there is no chance of snow and major rain storms and we can safely remove the winter cover).

Any help/advice would be very much appreciated... I have included a few pics, including the current Centurion CS-4500 Power Inverter/Charger.

[JohnB]

Hi Chrisco,

Can you please post the model number of your water heater? The model number is outside, behind the white drop-down panel; look for a model sticker on the side of the unit. Most of the time, the sticker is on the gas burner's side. If the sticker is not readable, please take pics of the heater outside with the door down and any pics you can of the inside and back sides of the heater.

Your heater may be one of several different models, as Atwood was updating the design, and Sunline installed different ones when your camper was built. That assumes it is original and a prior owner did not change it.

I will dig into your power converter and post back on how to change the converter. Others have done your model before.

John

[Chrisco1963]

Thanks for your response, John B.
I hope you are well and the Winter has been good to you.

I am working out of town this week, until this weekend. The camper is still covered, but i will try to undo the cover enough to get to the water heater door to look for the model number, or at least snap some photos of the unit. My wife says to take the cover completely off, but after the last snowstorm last week and the forecasted rain for the rest of the week, I am not 'on the same page' as her.
Speaking of pages, I found a page in my owner's manual regarding water heaters, but i do not see where the model number of my specific heater is listed as such (just the various types that it could be...I've attached photos of those pages for whatever they're worth).

Since my latest post above, regarding the power converter, i have found last year's thread and the suggestions about it. I think i like the idea of having a new one, with updated capabilities to properly charge the battery, so i look forward to help on installing another.

I will get back to you this weekend regarding the water heater, unless I happen to find in my phone's 10000+ photos a pic already taken of the water heater, then i'll post that.

Chris B.

[Chrisco1963]

Ok. I found a pic on my phone, I will still be looking at the sticker inside the actual unit at the camper this weekend for the model number, but for the time being, this photo may help...

[JohnB]

Hi Chris,

Let's talk about the power converter first. I'm unsure which post you saw, but here are some options for a new converter.

If you go with the Progressive Dynamics (PD) converter, you can save the fuses and circuit breakers in your existing power converter box. But to get the PD to fit, you may have to rework the old casing. You would be replacing only the power converter portion with this option. I have a Sunline friend who did just this, and it worked out well, but he had to modify the box to get it to fit.

I will link you to BestConverter.com. Their main business deals with all brands of old power converters. I have bought several power converters to upgrade old ones from them. Call and talk to Randy about any questions. Here would be the PD versions,

https://www.bestconverter.com/4600-s...its_c_133.html. There are two 45 amp converters, a PD4645V which would handle the normal lead acid batteries, or if someday you want to go lithium, they offer a PD4645VL where you can adjust the converter to do any kind of battery. My friend removed the power boards from the metal case and then used it in his old Centurion

The next option, which is called a drop-in, is to go with the Boondocker, which is a good power converter but replaces the entire power converter box. https://www.bestconverter.com/Boondo...PC-_p_679.html

You might need to replace the circuit breakers; check the brand you have against what their power center will accept, and so pick what you need. Other Sunline Club members have gone this route and had good outcomes; it is just some more rewiring work.

Again, Randy can help you ensure you get what you need. I am not affiliated with Best Converter; I am just passing along their top-notch service and the good products they sell.

A heads up, regardless of what power converter you get. Sunline used white solid wires from Romex cables for 125 VAC neutral. In your camper, AC natural shall not ever touch the earth's ground bare wires, or you will trip a GFIC outlet you plug in.

Sunline used white-stranded single flexible wire for the 12 VDC negative/DC ground wires. This DC white wire is common with earth ground/chassis ground and is supposed to be.

Make sure you do not mix up when white wire goes where. All the solid white AC wires are isolated from the stranded white DC wires.

If you need any help with this, let us know. Pics also help.

I personally like the performance of the PD converter, which is made and serviced in the USA. It has a standard 2-year warranty, but if you register the unit with PD, it can have a lifetime warranty. Please have a look at the PD site for more on the warranty. https://www.progressivedyn.com/ The Boondocker is also a good converter and has a 3-year warranty. BTW, PowerMax makes the Boondocker converter.

Hope this helps

John

PS, I will get back to you on the water heater. From your last picture, I can see you have an electronic ignition. I can get started on that, but a model number helps. If you lift the camper cover, you get a clearer pic of the outside. Your air shutter/burner tube looks iffy compared to the one in the picture.

[JohnB]

Hi Chris,

You said this:

One issue that we noticed was with the water heater. We noticed that it would turn on (flame would light and "roar" as it heated the water, but would shut down seemingly immediately after lighting, then start up again. This fluctuating between lighting and shutting off was sporadic. Sometimes it would light and run normally. Sometimes it would light and shutdown, light and shutdown numerous times.
It seems that it would occur whether it was being called for or not. Meaning it would act this way whether we were drawing hot water from the faucets, or whether we were laying in bed at night (trying to sleep). It got to the point of
having to shut the heater switch (up front) off before going to bed, or leaving the site.
Any ideas of what may cause this?

OK, reading that and seeing this dark pic of yours on the heater,


You could be fighting a burner blowout issue, meaning the burner lights and then blows out. It will try to start again and may blow out again. And or take off and stay running, but may stumble along the way. I have seen this before.

Get some more clear pics that will clearly shows:

The gas valve, the air shutter, and the entire burner tube up to where the burner tube goes into the heat exchanger pipe in the tank. You can capture all that in one picture, but be closer and get clear focus and more light in the area. Also do a few pics looking straight into the heater and then looking down from above at that area.

From those pictures, we can see what you have and make a few recommendations on how to remedy the problem.

I hope this helps.

John

[Chrisco1963]

Hello John,

While home this past weekend, I was able to snap a few pics of the water heater for my 2000 Sunline Solaris T-2653 as you suggested. I found the label which provides the Model number and serial number for the unit, which you can view in the attached photos. For clarity though, the label reads the following:

Model No.: GC6AA-9E
Spec. No.: 142020
Serial No: 96142078772
4/1/1998
6.2 gal capacity
8.800 BTU
Recovery gal/hr: 7.40

Of course it was raining when I snapped the photos, so i apologize if they are not bright enough, but hopefully they are clear enough to help in diagnosing the problem that is occurring with it.

Let me know if more photos are needed, I will be home again this coming weekend, so i can take additional photos (or work on the unit, if there is anything i can do).
TIA,
Chrisco

[JohnB]

Hi Chris,

I'm getting back to you. I'll paste your comments here so it is easier to follow up on the water heater issues.

One issue that we noticed was with the water heater. We noticed that it would turn on (flame would light and "roar" as it heated the water, but would shut down seemingly immediately after lighting, then start up again. This fluctuating between lighting and shutting off was sporadic. Sometimes it would light and run normally. Sometimes it would light and shutdown, light and shutdown numerous times.
It seems that it would occur whether it was being called for or not. Meaning it would act this way whether we were drawing hot water from the faucets, or whether we were laying in bed at night (trying to sleep). It got to the point of
having to shut the heater switch (up front) off before going to bed, or leaving the site.
Any ideas of what may cause this?

First off, your pics are good. We can see what you have, and the model number confirms it.

Your model number decodes out to a 6-gallon combo gas and 120 VAC electric heating with electronic ignition, and you have Rev 9 controls.

Your unit also has a flame fault detection circuit with a remote little red light that will show the unit had 3 consecutive flame faults and went into lockout until it is reset.

What is described above points, first off, point to intermittent flame. Part of it can be from ignition, and part is how the gas presents itself to the gas burner where the flame burns. We need to get past this part first and then see what else may be going on. This is a process of elimination. We will start with the most common issues and see how far that gets you.

This good pic of yours is where we will start.


First, turn off the gas, battery, and electric power to the water heater. Unplug the camper from shore power and disconnect the battery. If anything explained below is beyond your ability, stop and ask for help. Or take it to an RV service person.

In the pic, you have a gas valve, and on the end of the gas valve is a brass nozzle that is inserted into a gas burner tube that has an adjustable air shutter we can see in the pic. Screwed into the end of the brass nozzle is a small orifice. You will be cleaning the orifice you can't see in the pic. We will get to this in a moment on how to remove and clean the office.

You need to remove the gas burner assembly and clean its inside. Insects commonly make nests or just die in the gas burner tube. Here is the burner removal process.

Your older Rev 9 heater has a separate gas valve mounting bracket and burner mounting bracket. The rev 10s new have a combo bracket.

You can leave the copper gas supply line hooked to the gas valve. You do not have to take that off; it will not hurt if you do, but then you have to put it back on later. You can leave the whole gas valve in place at this point.

The ignition wire is a black wire with a rubber boot that comes out of the bottom of the PC control board. Carefully unplug the boot and wire from the PC board. It will pull straight out; it is a spade connection. Be very careful not to pull hard on the black wire on the other end that goes into the white porcelain electrode, or you will yank the wire right out of the electrode. You can buy a whole new electrode if you yank out the wire. It happens.

Now go to the gas valve area to the air shutter, the round tube with slots in it on the end of the gas valve brass nozzle. Take the air shutter screw out and slide the shutter off to the right and off the end of the brass nozzle. The gas burner is still hanging there. The shutter may be corroded and stuck, so be careful. If it will not budge, stop and leave it for the moment. We will deal with the bind-up after the burner is off the heater.

At the end of the gas burner tube, there is a bracket that attaches to the heater exchanger tube is a screw on top. Please be careful because the electrode is there; it is fragile. When that top screw comes out, the whole burner assembly will come off, and you have it out in the open. NOTE: Your Rev 9 might have a second screw to the heat exchanger tube; look under and to the side of the heat exchanger tube.

Look inside the burner for debris and clean it out. Again, be careful with the electrode. Clean up the air shutter and ensure it slides to open or close it.

At the end of the burner tube is a round disk flame spreader. The round disk end is supposed to align with the main burner tube, and the disk on the end flat surface is mounted at a 90-degree angle to the main tube. The gap between the disk and the end of the tube should be parallel. If the disk is bent inward or outwards, bend it back into the correct relationship. That disk is a flame spreader; if bent out of location, it can mess up the flame.

Look at the electrode and the ground pin rod. There should be a 1/8" gap between the tip of the electrode and the ground pin. Clean any build-up on the tips of either. Do not bend the actual electrode; tweak the ground pin if needed to adjust the 1/8" gap. Try not to break off the ground pin spot weld to the bracket if you are adjusting the gap; use two sets of needle nose pliers so as not to put stress on the spot weld. There is a mounting screw for the electrode bracket; the spark needs to be in the middle of the flame; loosen the screw and tweak the bracket to make sure that relationship happens.

Next is the gas orifice at the end of the brass nozzle on the end of the gas valve. Unscrew the small orifice. Hold the orifice up to the light and look through it; you can use a magnifying glass if needed. You need to see a true tiny hole with no obstructions (dirt, etc.). Do not poke at it; soak it in alcohol to dissolve the obstruction. Any scratches or dirt in the office messes up the gas flow pattern.


Once you clean up the burner and orifices, put everything back together and try to light the heater with water in it. Keep it from running for long (anything more than 5 to 10 seconds) without water. The air shutter may need to be tweaked to adjust the flame.

Here are two videos I made of the burner running. This is on a Rev 10 heater, so the burner/gas valve mounting brackets look different, but the flame should look the same. Tweak the air shutter until you get a nice blue flame and a low to moderate roar. NOTE: you may have to let it burn for a minute or so for any orange flame to disappear after cleaning. Any slight yellow or orange should clear up. If you have yellow streaks, there is an air or gas flow issue remaining.

These are videos hosted on my Flickr photo hosting site. They will play once you click the image.

https://flic.kr/p/2ktvqkf

https://flic.kr/p/2ktz7Vv

See how that goes, and let us know how it works. If it still is not working right, try to get good details of what it is doing. Or, if you can, post a video of it running.

I hope this helps.

John

[Chrisco1963]

Thanks John B,
I will be home tomorrow, and if the weather is good, I may delve into this project of the water heater.
I found a site that will help me identify the names of the parts that you have described in your last post concerning the cleaning of the gas burner. The link is as follows:


https://youngfartsrvparts.com/pages/...e-0fef16b1d8b1

Before finding the link above, I labeled one of my photos as best i could from your descriptions. How'd I do?

-Chrisco63

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Chrisco1963

Before finding the link above, I labeled one of my photos as best i could from your descriptions. How'd I do?

-Chrisco63

Hi Chris,

You get an A+ on your pic descriptions!

Good job.

I wish you good luck with the troubleshooting. A few dead bugs in the burner tube can cause a water heater a lot of heartache. Mud daubers are even worse.

John

[Chrisco1963]

Yesterday I took on the task of accessing the water heater to diagnose/service it according to John B's previous post regarding how to go about doing it. I must say, the actual dismantling of the components went very well. I was able to disconnect the black wire/rubber boot from its connection point on the main board , while taking care not to disrupt of damage the wire to the ceramic-insulated electrode end, I then removed the screw to the air adjustment on the main burner tube and was able to easily slide the air adjuster tube away from the gas valve end. Next, I carefully removed the bracket with the electrode off the entrance to the heater exchanger tube and carefully remove the main burner tube assembly off and carefully set it aside with no problems.
With that assembly off, I was able to look up into the heat exchanger tube to find only a little bit of dust within it. Using a soft-bristled brush I carefully pulled the dust out, then with low air pressure, blew any remaining dust up and out through the exhaust port of the heat exchange tube. I inspected the components of the main burner tube (i.e. inside the tube for any insect carcasses/spider webs, etc. (other than some surface rust, it was clear of any other debris); the electrode probe and ground pin rod, specifically to measure the gap between the ends of these (it measures 1/8"), as well as cleanliness of the ends (cleaned with alcohol), all without disturbing the spot weld of the ground pin rod. I also examined the flame spreader plate and checked for its alignment with the main burner tube (centered and parallel/perpendicular to the end of the main burner tube).
Next, I removed the orifice from the gas valve to examine it;s opening to ensure no debris to block the flow of gas coming through it. Although it, too looked clean and clear of any debris, I soaked the orifice in alcohol to remove anything that perhaps i did not see with my naked eye.
Then, the wind picked up, the rain started and soon after turned to a snow squall. With that, it postponed me from reassembling all the parts for an hour or two. Re-assembly went well, but with the inclement weather in the forecast for the next few days, I decided not to fill the water tank with water to light and test the flame and readjust the proper airflow.
The attached pics are just a few examples of what i was seeing while i disassembled the components.

-Chris

[JohnB]

Hi Chris,

You did a great job checking and cleaning up the normal things. Now, we just need the weather to cooperate so we can test out your handy work.

This is a process of elimination; if this does not correct the problems, report the findings, and we will go to the next steps. And report back if it works!

John