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Old 09-12-2011, 12:59 PM   #1
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Circuit Breaker

In the circuit breaker I have a 15 amp fuse that keeps buring out. It is marked for: Hoodvt which I assume is hood vent
Pump which I assume is water pump
Mont which I have no Idea of what mont is.

Any suggestion on what mont stands for.

Also, how do I go about finding out what is causing the fuse to continuously burn out.

Electricity is not my specialty.

The trailer is a 2005 T 1950

Thanks
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Old 09-12-2011, 01:59 PM   #2
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Maybe it means monitor, but are they calling the check switch for the black and gray tanks the monitor.
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Old 09-12-2011, 02:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKID View Post
Maybe it means monitor, but are they calling the check switch for the black and gray tanks the monitor.
Yes.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:20 PM   #4
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I still haven't figured out this problem. I talked to the company that makes the monitor and they didn't think it was the pump switch, they thought it was probably the pump. I pulled the pump completely out of the camper and the pump works fine when it is hooked straight to the battery.
Does anyone have any idea on why the pump switch would cause the fuse to blow.

Thanks
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKID View Post
... It is marked for: Hoodvt ...
Could that be the vent fan in the hood over the stove?
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Old 10-10-2011, 08:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKID View Post
I still haven't figured out this problem. I talked to the company that makes the monitor and they didn't think it was the pump switch, they thought it was probably the pump. I pulled the pump completely out of the camper and the pump works fine when it is hooked straight to the battery.
Does anyone have any idea on why the pump switch would cause the fuse to blow.

Thanks
Hi Jim

Need some more info to maybe help better. Following this trail of notes, your pump seems to work fine when hooked direct to a battery.

But it is not working right when in the camper and using the rocker switch off the tank monitor. Is this right?

Are you using the standard Shurflo water pump that pumps up pressure and then stops? Or have you upgraded to a variable speed pump? THey pull more power on some brands.

You say the fuse blows but I never heard how the pump is doing when it is in the camper.

Does the pump run at all in the camper off the tank panel switch?

Does the fuse blow immediately when you turn the pump on or the pump run a bit and then blows when it tops off with pressure?

What does the pump sound like when on the battery direct and then through the panel switch?

You have a 2005 unit, does it have a KIB tank panel that looks like this?


The fuse labels, any chance of a few pics?

See here on my 2004 T2499. The Mont/Pump was a 15 amp fuse. That meant on that unit that the rocker switch on the tank monitor had a 15 amp fuse. And on my T2499 that 15 amp fuse was only for the pump, nothing else.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:34 PM   #7
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Thanks John for the reply. Hope I can answer all the questions.

1. The pump does not work when using the rocker switch on the panel.
2. It is a standard pump model 2088 422 144
3. As soon as I flip the rocker switch the blue 15 amp fuse blows.
4. It is a KIP monitor panel and that is the company I called and the tech said that he didin't think it could be the switch.
5. The 12 volt cir board is labeled monitor/pump/hoodvt

I have the fresh water tank out of the camper along with the pump. I am trying to patch a leak in the tank around the extra plug so I put some water in the tank and hooked the pump to the tank and then wired the pump straight to a battery and it seems to work fine, pumping water okay.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:49 AM   #8
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Jim,

OK with this new info here is a trail to follow.

You say the pump runs fine off the battery. OK the pump is good, at least when all the wires are OK.

You say the fuse blows immediately when you flip on the rocker switch. This is a point to work from. This means that the wiring from the fuse panel up to the rocker switch is OK. Odds are also high that the switch is OK as if it was not then the fuse may blow all the time or nothing works. That switch is encase in plastic for the most part so I do not see any way for it to short out so easily.

With these 2 thoughts in mind this points to a dead short somewhere in the wiring from the rocker switch to the pump itself. Basically it “appears” that the hot wire from the switch is touching DC common or earth ground (trailer frame or side of camper) on that wire from the pump switch to the pump.

To sort this out the ideal way is to get an ohm meter where you can measure the resistance of the wire to DC common and earth ground. However I thought you stated electricity is not your specialty but you are handy as you already hot wired the pump off the battery, so I’ll ask. By any chance do you have an ohm meter, even a cheap one? If so set it to ohms, turn off the power in the camper even the battery DC. Put the one meter lead on DC common or earth ground and the other on the pump hot wire near the pump with the pump unhooked. If there is a dead short then that is the problem and you have to back into how that wire is touching DC common or the trailer frame. Let me know if you have a meter.

There are a few other ways if you do not have a meter, lets try this.
  • You have to know what wire is the hot wire at the pump. I’m going out on a limb here but your 2005 and my 2004 should be close in wire color codes. The white wires at the pump that Sunline used should be the ground wire or the DC common wire. The other wire, would black or blue would be the hot wire from the switch. We are after the hot wire is somehow touching the DC common or trailer frame creating a short.
  • Look at the hot wire that feeds the pump from the switch. Is there any insulation missing where the bare wires can touch the side of the camper?
  • If you unhook the pump motor in the camper, take the hot wire off only, the one coming from the switch, tape off the end of it or wire nut it. Then turn on the rocker switch. Did the fuse blow? If you have a short in the wire from the switch to the pump odds are it will still blow the fuse even with the pump out, “unless” you wiggled the wire in the unhooking process and that moved the problem.
  • If you have come up with that yes you do indeed have a short in the wire, then the hunt is on to find where that wire is skinned and touching metal.
I have pics at home on how to pop the cover off the KIB panel so you can get to the switch. Will post later. Odds are high that the short may be in the wiring as the wire comes through the camper or you are lucky and it is up in the switch area as DC common is in that tank monitor panel as well to work the little red light in the pump switch. There may be a wire strand of DC common crossing over the the pump hot wire as the wires are really packed in and they use wire nuts on that pump monitor.

I’ll type more later tonight.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:07 AM   #9
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John B
You are a good teacher. I do not have a OHM meter so I went the other route.

At the pump there are 2 wires.
A black wire which is connected to a white wire.
A red wire.
Both white and red wires go into the wall below the bed.

At the monitor panel switch there are 3 wires.
A white wire connected to the switch.
A red wire connected to the switch.
A red wire connected to the switch and then jumped connected to the next switch and then to the next switch.

I took pictures but can't seem to be educated enough to figure out how to insert them.

At the switch I disconnected the red wire that is only connected to the one switch. I turned on the battery and hit the switch and good news.
The fuse DID NOT blow and the light on the switch came on. So in my mind that is the hot wire going to the pump and it has a short. THe other red wire that jumps from switch to switch is the hot wire coming from the converter or battery. Could this be correct.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:06 PM   #10
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You are on the right track the looped wires are feeding power to the other switches if you disconnected the pump and all is fine you have a short some where on that wire you may have more then one wire landed on the same fuse terminal or the other switches go to a different fuse. You know the pump works so disconnect the wire at the pump and try it again if it blows you know it's the wiring or the pump is drawing too much current if it doesn't. Usually wires don't just short some thing has been disturbed or modified look for tapped joints new wood work or some thing that just does not look right.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:47 PM   #11
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Hi Jim

Your gaining big time now. To help, here are your 2 pics. We will have to work work with you on how to post yourself for the future. Glad to help.

Now to your pump.



There are 2 wires coming out of the back of the pump motor. A black and red one. In this case black is DC (-) and the red is DC (+) on the back of the motor. They run the red from the back of the motor through the pump pressure switch and then from the pressure switch to the wire nutted red Sunline wire. That Red Sunline wire is the hot wire (DC +) and the wire that is now suspect to have a short in it. The white Sunline wire is the DC common (DC -) and in this case the black pump wire goes to the white DC common wire.

I also see that small little white wire in the pic. That looks like the ground wire on the fresh tank probes. Is it?

Now to your next pic. The KIB panel


I see you have the big red wire off the middle spade of the pump rocker switch. The white wire that jumps to all the switches is DC common. They use that to create the DC common path for the light inside the switch.

The big red wire that jumps to all 3 switches is the + 12 VDC power line. That one is going to the fuse that keeps blowing in the circuit breaker panel. And by the way when that fuse blows you have no hot water either as that fused supply provide power to the 120 VAC relay for the electric part of the hot water heater and the gas rocker switch sends + 12 VDC to the HW heater control board to fire off in gas mode.

Now that you have this all apart, leave the pump feed wire off the center of the rocker switch in the tank monitor panel. Anywhere in the open is OK. Now go back to the pump area. Un-wire the red Sunline wire from the Red Shurflo wire.

Then put your ohm meter to ohms. Put one alligator clip on the white DC common wire (undo wire nut) and the other on the Sunline Red wire heading to the KIB panel pump switch. If that meter is reading 0 ohms or 1 to 20 ohms floating around you have a dead short to ground. May even be a little higher. That red wire should be infinite resistance to DC common.

At this point I'm going to assume you have a short in that red wire. Well now you have to track down where it is skinned and touching. This is easier said then down sometimes pending on TT layout. If you cannot find it out in the open you may be forced into running a new wire and abandoning the old one.

I had one like that but it was a tank probe wire. The fresh tank would be full all the time even when the tank was empty. Well I traced it to where the tank wire pokes through the floor to get to the tank. The wire was up against the TT main frame and was shorting it out. Vibration must of did it over time. I ended up shoving a piece of 1/4" plastic tubing through the wire chase and then feeding a new wire in. I was lucky I could do this.

See here. The white tube with the red wire in it is the new one I added.


And down below by the fresh tank is the other end.


There was no good way to get a new wire down through the floor in that wire chase that would not all ball up. The tubing was stiff enough I could shove it up through and then slide the wire through the tube.

Once up the floor then I could tap into the wire coming down the wall from the KIB panel. Here is the panel hanging out of the wall


I do not know how your pump wire is run through the camper. If you need help sorting that one out then send some more pics of how you think the wire goes from the KIB tank monitor panel to the pump and maybe we can think up some ideas on how to do this.

Your gaining and you traced this down to the problem. Good for you. The Ohm meter will confirm if that wire is shorted. And if it is not, well wiggle it, it might be shorting as you wiggle.

Good luck

John
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Old 10-12-2011, 03:09 PM   #12
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John B

The small white wire in the picture with the pump is the ground wire to the fresh water tank. I had a small leak in the blank plug on the tank so I took the tank out and resealed it.

Here is where I stand. I put the tank back in the trailer and hooked the pump to it. I then connected the black wire on the pump to the white wire. I then connected a NEW wire to the red wire on the pump and ran it randomly to the pump switch on the monitor panel. I put water in the tank and turned on the switch and low and behold everything worked.
I then started looking for a way to run the NEW wire in the wall to the switch. I found 2 wires coming out of the floor under the sink going into the wall just below the counter exactly below the monitor. So I was able to slowly feed the NEW wire along with the existing 2 wires. I put the monitor panel back together and finished the job just like an electrician.

Job done. Thanks John

I can now put electrician and plumber on my resume.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:05 PM   #13
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Jim

That is GREAT!!!

See you are more handy with 12 volts then you thought!!!

Oh and you can add "fishermen" to the resume too. Sneaking a wire up the wall can be a challenge some times. Good thing your layout was conducive to easily adding a new wire. Sometimes the pump is a long ways away and across the camper too.

Now go have fun camping again!

Glad it all worked out good.

John
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:05 AM   #14
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We are heading out next week to check out the fall colors of the Ozarks in Missouri and Arkansas.
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