Restoring a 2006 Solaris T-2753

[ChipEdog]

Well all the wheels are steel, and I brought the two older wheels in to have tires replaced. Going to put them on today and try to clean out the black water tank.

I’m realizing this task seems quite involved.

My main question is: do I need to keep water in the tanks? Should I try to flush the lines?

I’ve read keeping the tanks empty can cause problems, like the seals drying out. Not quite sure how to proceed

 

[JohnGB]

Well all the wheels are steel, and I brought the two older wheels in to have tires replaced. Going to put them on today and try to clean out the black water tank.

I’m realizing this task seems quite involved.

My main question is: do I need to keep water in the tanks? Should I try to flush the lines?

I’ve read keeping the tanks empty can cause problems, like the seals drying out. Not quite sure how to proceed

f

If you are going into a restoration repair, I would flush all tanks clean if they are not already, and drain all tanks dry. If someone sees an issue with a dry tank, have them explain the issue in detail. Brand new campers come with dry tanks all the time don't they? The context sometimes gets lost on the web of the issues.

Not sure about tank seals drying out. The Sunline tanks themselves have no rubber seals, but the dump valves do and some times get hard to pull the handle even on a wet tank. Use silicone spray (only silicone to not affect the rubber seal in the valve) on the slider valve plate and run it back and forth a few times to spread the silicone. I have to do this about twice a year to keep the blades lubed and then all is good.

So drain the tank dry, spray the slider dump valve blade with liquid silicone and you can close or leave the valve open so air can go up and dry out the tank. If you need to lift the toilet to do work, you will be glad the tank is dry and clean.

And leaving water in the fresh tank a long time, can grow mold in the tank. The fresh tank really needs to be drained and dried out. Restorations are never quick.

Hope this helps

John

 

[ChipEdog]

Thanks John,

I figured that empty would be best if not using. It was one of the websites while googling that mentioned to either put water back in tanks, and if not use antifreeze. Probably just was expecting the users to need to use the tanks at some point soon.

Also, I have an odd valve which I believe is for the black water. It is a twist knob, with the word ‘twister’. It seems like a gate valve, but instead of pulling the lever, you twist it…ever heard about that? Will try to get a picture up ASAP.

Otherwise been pretty slow, lots of personal things going on with me lately. Although I did get the tires replaced!

 

[JohnGB]

Also, I have an odd valve which I believe is for the black water. It is a twist knob, with the word ‘twister’. It seems like a gate valve, but instead of pulling the lever, you twist it…ever heard about that? Will try to get a picture up ASAP.

Otherwise been pretty slow, lots of personal things going on with me lately. Although I did get the tires replaced!

The "twister", h'mm that does not sound like something original from Sunline. Post the pic to better help show what it looks like.

Hey, no worries on these projects going slow. Life happens and a restoration take a long time. You off to a good start.

 

[ChipEdog]

Well we got it done!

Black tank emptied, gray tank emptied. Washed them both out pretty damn good.

The twister was just that, a gate valve hooked ok to a knob. So inside of a slider, you’ve got a twister

It was a great process to learn, much easier than I thought.

Going to be starting repairs. Will start with the awning, then the roof items, then the side rails. Probably start at the front and work toward the back. There is definite damage on both the front and back. I’m not sure how far that going in, and I’ve found one soft spot on the floor. That is by the hatch which would be I believe under the sofa on the front wall. Drivers side.

When looking for the Luan, I came across this product…which near me was only slightly higher in price than the plywood. It’s called goboard. Some type of lightweight foam, mean for tile backing board. To replace cement board.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Johns-Manville-0-26-in-x-36-in-x-60-in-GOBOARD-Polyisocyanurate-Backer-Board/999930274

Does anybody know if this would work for either wall board or on the roof under the rubber?

 

[ChipEdog]

Huge update!

We've removed the awning, a few roof items, and almost 3/4 of the siding.


Lots of damage. More than originally thought in some spots, less than thought in others.


............................................





Starting with the awning. It appears to be in pretty bad shape. Many of the clips are broken, the awning is ripped and flaking. We will not be keeping it. Possibly replacing it...but if it is as difficult to get on as it was to get off, maybe not going to bother.



I followed one of JohnB's posts about getting it off. It was pretty much step by step. Although I did have to lower the awning to be able to put as much pressure was needed to actually slide the awning out of the channel.

The screws were definitely rusty.




We got the awning off by unscrewing the necessary screws, rolling the awning down to stomach height. Then one of us pushed the awning toward the back (where it seemed it would come out the channel easiest). It took lots of pressure to slide out, we would go in bursts...1, 2, .....3 push/pull.

 

[ChipEdog]

Then we went on to the roof.

I am not sure about the condition of this roof....I don't know enough to know if it is usable (I doubt), restorable (probably), or needs total replacement (highest cost?)

There is some sweating in the shower dome.



In the back, I noticed a significant dip. The rubber is the lowest point here. I think the supports have been rotted away. Seems like the rubber should be higher in order to drain water away. In the picture you can see how much lower the rubber is compared the the back rail.




Here is a close up picture, showing the 'cracking' appearance of the roof. Is this normal? A worry? Fixable? Feeling a little lost.





The caulking looks terrible. It was hot that day, so everything on the roof was sticky and tacky.



More pics to come. Also on the day we were on the roof, we were using plywood on top of carpet or cloth to move around. But we accidentally 'scuffed' the white surface of the roof, revealing the black rubber. Is this normal, or a sign of a desperate roof? It was scuffed very very easily, I believe with a shoe.

Many more pictures and updates to come. But looking for a little advice with the roof. (replacement vs restoring)

 

[Bradjr]

I have a 2005 T 2753. My original wheels are White. Down the road you might want to consider an Axle Flip. See my post. Axle flip T 2753. If you’re ever on Long Island look us up. flbradjr@gmail.com

 

[JohnGB]

Hi Chip,

I see you have been busy.

I can tell by your pics, you have a good level of water damage in the roof system, walls and potentially some of the floor. That said, it is all repairable and when you make it to the end of the restoration, you will have a nice camper. If you have the mindset, time, basic wood tools and skills, you can do this. But, it will take a lot of time. The materials are not that bad, but you cannot afford to higher this out at standard RV shop rates.

To some of your questions/comments.

1. I would "not" throw out the awning. That is one expensive piece of hardware to replace. You can buy new fabric to replace the worn, torn old fabric. You can buy the broken roof mount brackets. Those parts that I can see are a very small amount compared to an entire new awning. If you still end up not wanting it, let me know, I would be interested in it, even for a level of cost.

2. The roof is an EDPM rubber roof made my Dicor called Brite Ply, 40 mill thick. It has a white top shed layer and a bottom black EPDM rubber layer. Seeing black rubber on the bottom is normal if the white top layer is worn or rubbed hard. But be careful, that black layer is the actual water proof layer and is very thin. Any pin hole in the black layer is a leak. When you see the bottom black layer, there are coatings to rebuild the white layer that can be used.

In the back of the camper, the rubber membrane is still intact, but from the sealant leaks at the moldings, the heavy thick corrugate backer board (called bud board by Sunline) is compromised from the water and has lost all holding strength. It will no longer hold the rubber membrane up and water will pool between the rafters and become a big problem in time if it is not already.

Now to do you repair it or replace the roof? I can show or tell you how to do both, but you will need to make some decisions first before going down either path. What are you intentions for this camper? How long do you want to keep it? 1 year, 5 years, 10 years or more?

There is way too much work to do to only repair the camper and only use it one year. At least in my opinion. Unless you have time to work on the camper full time, odds are high to fix all the water damage in the ceiling, walls and floor will take over 1 year or longer doing it part time.

The walls and floor water damage are going to take the same amount of work to repair regardless what you do with the roof. Then comes the roof. I suspect the bud board is compromised on at least half the camper. By chance did you get a moisture meter? and if so, did you scan the ceiling?

The heavy water condensing inside the shower dome is coming from trapped water in the attic of the camper, trying to evaporate out and the vapor flows through the attic and stops at the shower dome trapped and can't get out. Since there is a steam dome inside the camper, you may not see the water condensing up there. Take the screw out of the inside steam dome, take the steam dome down and then look.

The caulking sealants on the roof are shot. Since the back is so bad, (that damage is many years old.) odds are favorable the front of the camper has some level of water damage to the roof and walls area. You might luck out and it be small, or it too, is big.

This comes down to a judgement call to replace the whole roof or attempt a repair on the back. The amount of work may be close to the same, the material cost for the repair could be a little cheaper but maybe not a lot. You will have to cost estimate both versions out to know for sure. If you want to keep the camper much past 5 years, you will need to remove all the roof perimeter moldings and lift up the entire perimeter of the bud board and look to see how good or bad the water damage is. Seeing that, will help you make the decision on to repair or replace the whole roof. And then there is still all the wet walls and floor.

If you have moisture meter readings, I can tell you better how good or bad the situations is. And by doing an investigation on the 1/4 hex head screws on the bottom of the front wall siding and back wall siding, take each screw out and look at the threads. If they all come up shinny silver (odds are low they will by your pics) then this is better sign. If the front and back are both with a good deal of rust on the threads, then both the front and back are water infected and the floor may have some issues to.

The Lowes board you linked, I have not seen that in person, but by the approved use of it, it looks like a backer board that goes over a solid floor or wall system. It may have high compression strength when supported by a solid floor or wall, but I suspect it has low tensile strength to be used as a roof decking. I suspect it will not make a good roof repair. Look for a wood product either for a floor underlayment or plywood, 1/4" thick for a non walk on roof. OSB board could be used too but we need to get the thickness up to at least 3/8" on the chip board products from my opinion. Then, there is weight concerns with the 3/8 thick to think about as the T2753 is the longest 2006 7,000# class camper Sunline made. Longer means more roof decking, mean more weight reduction in cargo capacity on a longest most room camper. That said, it all come with a trade off. A nice 3/8" plywood decked roof is walk on and a nice feature, you just give up some cargo capacity. I have figures for that may help if wanted.

Read this over and ask questions on areas you need clarification on.

Hope this helps

John

 

[ChipEdog]

We’ve decided on a new roof install. I think epdm is probably the way to go? But locating the material is a bit daunting. Where is it suggested I buy the roofing material? I’ve also seen the super flex roofing around, is that a decent substitute to epdm?

 

[JohnGB]

We’ve decided on a new roof install. I think epdm is probably the way to go? But locating the material is a bit daunting. Where is it suggested I buy the roofing material? I’ve also seen the super flex roofing around, is that a decent substitute to epdm?

Hi Chip,

EPDM 40 mil, white, roofing is a good option. Here are some places I have bought it from.

PPL Motorhomes out of Texas. I myself but it by the foot. It seems they are out of stock right now, but should get more in,. A call to them may help on when they can get it.
https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts.../roofing-replacement-systems/rubber2_47-95B40

PPL does have precut lengths available. The issue being, you may have to overbuy the length to get what you need. The cost can be higher then by the foot. I bought from them in May of this year. Covid has driven the cost nuts on this stuff.
https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts...tems/epdm-rubber-roof-systems-38-1484_38-1485

Flair Distribution used to sell the 40 mil, now I see they are selling the 60 mil. https://flairdistribution.com/colle...0ft-flair-distribution?variant=40652981829791

I have never bought from Flair, but they appear to be a good place to buy from. Check them out. Flair may have had to switch to 60 mil due to shortages in the 40 mil market.

Also, 40 mill has been the RV standard thickness for a long time. 60 mil, is more on housing/buildings. It lasts longer, is better, it just weighs more and costs more.

If you are jumping to the 60 mil, Best Materials in Phoenix who is a commercial roof supply house has it. I now see Best Materials is pushing the RV part of this. This page is all new. Seems the shortage of 40 mil EPDM has found the commercial building market it seems.
https://www.bestmaterials.com/EPDM-Roofing.aspx

https://www.bestmaterials.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=white+epdm+membrane+per+foot

I will say this, buying from a commercial roofing place is a lot more price attractive then from RV sellers. I have bought a lot over the years from Best Materials and had positive experiences.

Shipping freight is going to be a cost. The roofing material weighs a lot. Don't forget to factor in the shipping.

You mentioned Super Flex. Super Flex is normally considered TPO and not EPDM. It is used a lot now along with PVC as RV roofing. TPO went through a lot of development to get it to last without problems, but that should be old news. Super Flex is a trade name of Alpha Systems. Alpha was bought out by Lippert not long ago. https://alphallc.us/products/roofing/

Super Flex is sold by many places.

Flair Distribution https://flairdistribution.com/colle...width-length-10ft-40ft?variant=36300427886751

Etrailer https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-RV_Roof_Repair-sf-Roof_Membrane.aspx

Rec Pro https://www.recpro.com/rv-roofing/

PPL https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/search?categoryId=&query=tpo

A few things on TPO. Do not get the fleece backed TPO. It has caused major issues with water wicking if a leak occurs. The fleece backed has been not use much anymore, but they still sell it. Go for the non fleece backed TPO.

TPO can have different sealants. Make sure the lap sealant you use is rated for the "brand" of TPO you are buying. If you go with Alpha TPO, use Alpha glue and sealants.

I have bought from all the places I linked with good results other then Flair, Flair I'm sure may be good, I just have not bought yet from them.

PVC is another choice in RV roofing. Look for Lasalle Bristle PVC. I have some experience with PVC. In this case, it came on a project camper and was installed wrong. It's not the material that is an issue, it was the install.

As you can tell by the prices, TPO and PVC are cheaper. The RV market is sort of forcing out EPDM, not that it is not a good roofing material, more so it costs more. The commercial grade EPDM from Best Materials may be your best price, but you are paying for better EPDM roofing that is warranted better, it just weighs more.

Any roofing you buy, may come folded up in a box. When you get it, you have to unfold it flat very soon after getting it. Or the wrinkles in the folds will set in and may not come out. I take it out of the box and roll it up on a 10 ft long 2" PVC pipe the day it shows up. It stays nice and flat that way and easier to get up on the RV roof.

EPDM, TPO, PVC are your RV roof membrane choices. All 3 of them consider them the best, if you read the marketing hype. All are good, but there are differences that need to be understood, pro's and con's of all of them. They install close to the same, but there are differences that need to be learned and accounted for.

Hope this helps

John

 

[ChipEdog]

Wow John, thanks a bunch. That’s exactly the information I was looking for!

Some friends are going to help this weekend, and I think I’m going to ask if they can help get the old caulking/tape off the taken down siding and fittings.

Is it suitable to just scrape the old stuff off, or do I need to hit it with a cleaner?

 

[JohnGB]

Wow John, thanks a bunch. That’s exactly the information I was looking for!

Some friends are going to help this weekend, and I think I’m going to ask if they can help get the old caulking/tape off the taken down siding and fittings.

Is it suitable to just scrape the old stuff off, or do I need to hit it with a cleaner?

You are welcome. Glad to help.

Sorry late getting back to you, we just made it back from camping and the signal was really bad to do much on the web.

On you caulk /old stuff etc. question, I'm assuming you mean the moldings, windows and siding you take off to clean up?

Using a heat gun, or hair dryer if that is all you have, warm the old putty tape, butyl tape or old Dicor caulk. You do not need or want a lot of heat as it then turns to goo. Some scrapes up good cold, some need a little heat to help it come off easier.

On the white aluminum you will see, use a plastic scraper. I use these nonmarring scrapers. https://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-nonmarring-scraper-set-95832.html they are stiff, but will not scratch the siding etc. But, they cannot take a lot of heat, so warm the old sealants, move the heat away and then scrape. I also sharpen the on the bench grinder or sander when they get dull, they scrape better sharper.

After you scrape, there is a chemical clean process with mineral spirits , a metal flattening step and then a final clean before installing with a high flash cleaner (Naphtha, Denatured alcohol etc). And a siding pin hole check and fix. Followed by a siding caulking on the outside for the pin holes once the camper is back together.

See this post for the moldings,
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/...-repair-picture-heavy-16834-4.html#post131768

See this post on the siding,
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/...ct-ugly-picture-heavy-17684-5.html#post151649

See this post and the one right after it for the siding pin hole check. (scroll down a little for the siding) The siding can/will corrode from heavy water damage eating it away from the inside out. You want to seal up the corroded siding on the inside.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/...project-camper-no-2-a-18706-2.html#post144536

And a final step on the siding pin holes, use white or clear Proflex RV sealant on the outside of the siding over the pin holes with the Etnerabond on the inside once the camper is put back together over the corroded holes.

Let me know if you need more on this. Hope it helps.

John

 

[ChipEdog]

Thanks again John


Going to try to get the next picture dump here soon.


Thanks for the clarification on the siding cleaning and preparation.


Is the molding specific to sunline? Do you have resources for sourcing that out? I think I would opt to purchase new, rather than clean and straighten.

 

[JohnGB]

Is the molding specific to sunline? Do you have resources for sourcing that out? I think I would opt to purchase new, rather than clean and straighten.

You are welcome Chip,

The roof and corner moldings on your camper are not Sunline specific. They are still made.

With Covid, right now certain moldings are very popular with so many older campers being fixed. That and maybe supply issues, many are out of stock. But, I can find the part numbers for you, I just need which ones you need and the style. Please post pics of what you want as Sunline did change which ones are used where from time to time. Armed with the right part numbers, you can search the web to find them, or go to your local RV dealer to get them.

That said, it seems anything 96" long is an issue finding now a days. I think it is a freight issue. I use to be able to buy 8 ft long moldings shipped in a tube without issue, now those same moldings are a few inches shorter compared to what use to be 8 ft long, from the same place. And getting a long 21 foot gutter rail, takes a LTL freight shipment. Buying 2 new gutter rails is cost prohibitive due to the freight. If you want to buy 20 or 30 of them, then the freight is the same as 2 of them.

Post some pics, I'll point you to what to buy. Then you can sort out if you want to straighten the old ones or buy new.

AP Products, an aftermarket seller, has many of them. They do not make them, they just sell them. Finding something on their website, is a education in itself. There are other that sell the same moldings too.

Hope this helps

John