Replacing a 1992 Sunline Aluminum Roof: Feasibility, Materials, and Step-by-Step Guidance

[myabelle]

And how do I decide whether to reuse the aluminum roof if I can't look underneath to assess its reuseability first? Or does that first 6" cut you recommend still work for reusing the roof?

Do you think I should try to reuse it? It has the hole above, and it has a patch over a hole on the back door side as you've seen. And cleaning it?

Oh, the screws on the door side seam looked pretty good, but the left side... not too hot in places, the above being one. The top plate for the studs does not look good there either, which means the studs underneath might not look good, at least the tops of them. Woodwork ahead someday.

Thank you for advice!

 

[JohnGB]

Hi Rob,

This "thing"

Not knowing what has been changed inside your camper, by the looks of that roof vent cover and its location above a lower vent on the left side wall in this pic. points to an RV absorption fridge setup.

Since there is no cooling coil below the roof vent and the opening in the ceiling is blocked by a board of sorts, here is my assumption of what happened. The original absorption RV fridge most likely died at some point, and a prior owner likely did not want to pay the higher cost for replacement parts for the original gas/electric-powered fridge, so they removed the RV-style fridge completely. This is common among older campers: the owner never camps without plugging in electric power, and they buy a dorm-style fridge for a fraction of the cost of repairing the RV fridge, using a small 125 VAC-only fridge, and installing it in the old fridge cabinet. There is also an LP gas line that they had to cap off behind the lower vent cover on the side of the camper. If you ever use the LP gas system, that old fridge gas line cap off should be checked; it was done correctly. You can remove that lower vent cover and have a look.

To plug the hole in the roof, a prior owner bought a new-style RV fridge roof vent that is longer than the original. They may not have known where to find the smaller ones to fit that camper; they just plugged up the hole in the roof. It also appears they never used any butyl sealing tape to bond the new cover roof flange to the roof metal; they may have only caulked around the edges. Not using butyl sealing tape on roof flanges is not a good idea; it is a leak waiting to happen. They just may not have known they really need that extra sealing. When it's time to mount the roof vents, let's talk to make sure you use the right materials to seal them.

On the roof AC unit, in case you did not know, there are 4 bolts that you access inside the camper to unbolt the roof unit. Yours is older than this one, but the 4 bolts are in the corners of the roof opening after you remove the inside shroud. See here. Remove the 4 bolts and the large plate inside the camper, unhook the power wiring, and unhook the square air return duct between the bottom of the AC unit and the inside plate.

This link takes you to one of my posts showing how to remove the AC unit from the camper. Scroll down a bit in that reply, and you will see the AC unit. 2004 T1950 Restoration Project - (Ugly Picture Heavy)

A tip/heads up. Once the 4 bolts are out, up on the roof, between the bottom pan of the AC unit and the roof metal is a sealing gasket. Or should be. That gasket can get really stuck to the roof, and it's holding the AC unit from moving in any direction. To break the gasket seal loose, you have to lift hard on one corner, then the next, and once it starts to let go, lift it up and move it off the roof. That gasket is a one-time-use item; you will need a new one when it's time to put the AC unit back on the roof. We can get into how to scrape off the old one on the bottom of the AC unit when the time comes.

Ok, more in the next reply on your other questions.

I hope this helps.

John

 

[JohnGB]

Hi Rob,

To this question.

And how do I decide whether to reuse the aluminum roof if I can't look underneath to assess its reuseability first? Or does that first 6" cut you recommend still work for reusing the roof?

There are two ways to look "under" the roof before cutting it that come to mind quickly.

Both options require that all mounted items on the rooftop, the gutter rails, and the four corner moldings have been removed. The roof metal is then lying on top of the rafters, and is only held from moving left to right or front to back by the front and rear roof seams to the front and rear siding. This also assumes there are no staples under the gutter rails holding the roof metal to the walls. You can lift the folded-over roof metal under the gutter rails and raise it slightly if there are no staples left.

1. You can "possibly" peek in under the metal membrane at these locations by lifting the metal up and looking in with a flashlight.

A. Along the gutter rails area. You may have straighten out the folded over approx 1 1/4" flap leg of the roof metal to look in.

B. At the AC unit 14" x 14" opening, lift up and look under it.

C. At any of the 14 x 14" crank-up roof vents.

D. At the old fridge vent area.

2. The other way to look at the entire backside of the roof metal without cutting it is to remove the front and rear wall siding. The siding removal starts at the bottom and work your way up, one piece at a time. The front and rear windows also need to come out to get the siding off. The top piece of siding is seamed to the roof metal, but all the siding pieces below it will come off. Once the staples on the lower seam of the large top siding are removed, the entire roof metal and the top and rear siding pieces will come off as one large piece.

Option 1 may not show much, as you can't see very far, but if what you see is really bad or heavily corroded in those areas, like in the tar section at the right rear, that adds to the decision that the old roof is not very salvageable.

And even then, if option 1 looks OK based on what you can see, choosing option 2 and removing the entire roof with the front and rear siding may reveal heavy corrosion in areas you cannot see in option 1. But then you can make a good assessment to see if it's worth saving or not.

As to the question, if you cut the front 6" cut, yes, you can lift the roof towards the back of the camper and have a better look, and then decide what to do. If things look bad, well then you will cut at the back seams 6" away from the siding seam as well and get the large center section off the roof and move on.

If you decide you want to reuse the old roof "after" cutting it, you will all have to create a sound lap seam over the 6" cut site. A lap seam means you will need to add a 6" section of new metal, with 3" pop riveted or other means, to the front section under the roof. Then apply 3" over the top of the main roof, so the lamp seam has the wind direction when towing to always push down on the seam. This will have to be well sealed. It is possible, but it will take some work and a new rafter under the centerline of the cut. There may also be an extra-wide cap molding that can be used at the cut joint if we can find one, so we do not have to do the pop rivet add-on piece. More digging to find that molding will be needed if you go that way.

You are sort of into it, deciding beforehand you are not going to use the old roof based on what you see from the outside. Then you do the 6" cut at the front and move forward with removing the old roof. OR, you do option 2, then decide whether to keep the old roof.

Seeing your goofy refrigerator whole in the roof, if you are not going back to an RV fridge and you are putting on a new decked roof, you can deck and roof right over that hole and have no vent on the roof. This is a plus for the new roof.

You are sort of balancing the decision between the work needed for a new decked roof and whether you can clean up the old roof if it is not too heavily corroded.

I will say this: odds are high that the right-tared corner will need some wall-stud work at the back wall. The top plate, for sure, but also some repairs to the wall studs. Again, most can be repaired from the outside, leaving the inside intact. Odds are the siding will have to come off to repair these studs. I will also add that there may be lower wall-stud water damage on the front and rear walls. Water wants to seep down by gravity, and it stops at the bottom and festers.

Both saving the old roof and creating a new roof will involve much work, but the work is different between the two options. Saving the old roof creates a lot of tedious cleanup and needs seam sealing once cleaned. The new roof requires a bit more assembly time because the decking and membrane need to be installed. Both options require the rot damage to be repaired.

I'm trying not to talk you into either option, but to give you the choice of what fits better for you.

But there is also this, your asked this.

Do you think I should try to reuse it? It has the hole above, and it has a patch over a hole on the back door side as you've seen. And cleaning it?

I did not really see a patch over a roof hole, so post a few pics. A major patch job may tip the scales towards the new roof. All I could see was what looked like a bunch of tar.

Yes, cleaning is a major project. Need to see more on the hole to help better.


I hope this helps

John

 

[JohnGB]

I forgot to mention this, but in case it is needed, here is a tip on how to remove the four corner moldings.

A heat gun is your friend when dealing with stuck-on putty tape used to seal moldings, window frames, doors, and other mounted items to the siding. And during the cold months of the year, you really have to use a heat gun to warm the old sealant enough to release it without damaging the molding or frame you are removing. The added heat also helps when installing new butyl tape, allowing it to flow as you tighten the screws on the item you are mounting.

The heat gun for this camper work can be a simple 2-speed (Hi and Low) corded heat gun. Think of it as a heavy-duty hair dryer. In fact, in a pinch, you can use a hair dryer; the heat gun has a more concentrated heat nozzle. Most lumber yards and hardware stores sell heat guns. Even Harbor Freight has them. And the array of heat guns to pick from can be large. For this camper work, a 1,500 to 1,800-watt 2-speed, (dual speed) 125-AC volt corded heat gun will work. You will not need 10 speeds and 10 heats for this work. But if you have one of the more advanced Wagner multi-speed and multi-heat ones, they can work too, but they can be more bulky for this type of work. The cost ranges from $20 to close to $50 for a more feature-rich one. And higher for the professional ones. I would not recommend a battery-operated heat gun for this work; they work well with electrical shrink tubing, etc., but the amount of heating you need to lift stuck-on putty tape really requires a corded gun to run for longer periods.

And there is a need for a 1" wide, stiff metal blade, putty knife, and scraper to use with the heat gun.
To remove the caulk or putty tape, you use gentle heat and a very dull metal scraper. You have to dull over every edge on the scraper blade so it does not dig into the siding and scratch the paint. Heat comes from the heat gun. Keep the gun moving, not real fast and not super slow, so it doesn't stay in one spot for long. You will get the feel of how much heat you need by how easily the scraper pushes. Point the heat gun in the direction you are peeling, keeping the heat ahead of you. If you stay in one spot too long (think 10 to 20 seconds), you may/can burn the paint.

Here is removing the roof moldings. Warm up the old caulk, then push the putty knife into the caulk and scrape it up.

Here is the corner moldings, start at one end, warm a foot or more of the molding to start, push the putty knife under the molding, gently pry up, keep heating until the old putty tape lets go. If you pry too hard, you will bend the molding. You can straighten out the molding when it is overbent.

See this post for more on removing moldings and siding when it comes to that. 2004 T2475 Repair - Project Camper No 2

I hope this helps.

John

 

[JohnGB]

Another tip: when cleaning the old, stuck-on putty tape off moldings, flanges, siding, etc., and you are "not" using the heat gun and a metal stuff blade to lift moldings, etc. Use a non-marring scraper to remove the heavy chunks of old putty tape without scratching the paint. These are plastic and will not scratch the paint. You can warm the putty to make it easier to remove, then remove the heat and scrape with these non-marring scrapers. Just don't put the scraper in the line of heat, or it will melt.

I use these non-marring scraper sets from Harbor Freight. I do not use the very wide one much, but I use the other 3 sizes all the time. When they get dull from scraping, I sharpen them on the bench grinder or sander.
Nonmarring Scraper Set, 4-Piece

Auto parts stores may have something similar, as they use it on aluminum machined castings to scrape off old gaskets without scratching the surface. I have always used the Harbor Freight ones.

Here is my siding cleaning kit: a heat gun, the red scraper, and the cleaning chemicals, along with Eternabond Roof Seal tape for repairing corrosion holes in the siding.

I hope this helps.

John

 

[myabelle]

Hi John, dog got diagnosed with heartworm, maple sap is running, war, 10 degrees tonight... lots of issues conspiring to keep me from this project.

I have all the items off the roof and the corner moldings are off. That tarred area in the back right is a patch that is riveted. The patch extends below the seam, is that a problem? I assume that doesn't affect the initial 6" cut across the roof? I scraped (the thin line in the tar) so you could see the edge better. It's maybe a foot long. The seam is just above and to the right of it. I think with this patched hole and the extra hole from the fridge vent that isn't going to be used I can abandon the thought of salvaging the roof and im ready to take it off. Thank you for advice and ill pick up that red scraper set.

 

[JohnGB]

Hi Rob,

I totally understand life happening, holding up a camper project. No worries, I can totally relate, trust me. This is your project, and you set the speed that fits you. We are here to help as needed, whenever needed.

H'mm, if they riveted a patch on, that may be to cover a large hole caused by a tree branch crash or another mega event.

And yes, that riveted-on patch over the rear roof seam would not affect the 6" cut back when you cut off the back center roof section. Once you remove the center metal membrane roof section, you can see what is under there and then figure out how to make the final cut to tie the new roof into the rear siding.

Your choice to go with the new roof is a good one. The old roof has a lot wrong with it, yes, it could be fixed, but seeing this now, I agree, go for a new roof if you want to. You can create a good sound roof with the new setup. Yes, there may be more work involved with the decking and new glue on the membrane, but the end result can be much better.

You are doing really well. Keep up the good work.

John

 

[myabelle]

OK John , here you go...

this is the riveted patch over a hole at the back right corner. There is some rot back in there as you suspected.

Those 3 are moving toward the front taken from the right side. Mouse has been busy.

that's in the area above the door.

front. And that does it for the "good" side.

This is left side at the bathroom vent.

more of that vent

Next section after that vent looking toward back. I think I'm at the limit so the rest of this later. I guess it could have been worse... maybe.

 

[JohnGB]

Hi Rob,

You and your helper (if there is one) are doing really well. You are buzzing right along.

These close-up pics are excellent. You get an A+! When time allows, before taking any more apart, see if you can get a few pics of the entire roof off area. Looking from the front and then from the back. This can come in handy later on, in case we need to talk about what was there.

Here are a few first-look observations. From this pic.

I can tell that a prior owner has been in the attic before you. I sense they tore out the original ceiling board, most likely from the inside. Installed the silver bubble-wrap-type insulation, did a lot of wiring, then put new ceiling board, maybe back up. The silver stuff looks like a product called Reflectix. This stuff, Reflectix, Inc. , Home Depot, and other places sell it.

I have used that type of insulation before, but not in a camper attic. I used it in a heated holding tank compartment under the camper. Using it in the attic brings up some concerns to think through if you leave it or change it. We can talk more about what to do, and I'm sure we will, but here is the big-picture concern with using Reflectix in the attic as they have done. Most campers are built without attic ventilation to deal with excess moisture or to let the mega heat buildup in the summer escape the attic. Since you are adding an all-new roof, see here for what I have found and done to greatly help this problem. Attic vents in a camper, what are they and what do they do?

The next topic, which I highly recommend you correct, is the wiring that crosses over the top of the rafters. A prior owner should never have allowed the camper's wiring, especially the 120 VAC Romex cable, or even the 12 VDC, to be sandwiched, unprotected, between the roof metal and the top of the wood rafter. That is a problem on many levels. When you add new decking screwed to the rafters, the wiring has to be changed to prevent the sandwich of roof decking from contacting the rafters and to keep the decking screws from hitting the wiring.

It also looks like they did some kind of 12-volt DC terminal block setup in the ceiling. See the red circle. Need better pics of those two connection blocks to figure out why they are using them.

The bathroom vent: I can tell by the wood used that the bathroom vent area was repaired a while ago, before the latest rot set in. The wood in the red circle, that decorative grooved 3/4" thick wall board, was not by Sunline. Yes, this area will need a rafter, a side wall top plate, and wood repair for the roof opening. You can pull out the staples in the very top piece of siding and fold the siding back to take a look at what you might be in for. The bottom of that top piece of siding is also stapled to the wall studs, but you can't easily get to them. More on what to do after taking a peek down with the siding tipped back.

The hole in the back roof, ah, yup. It looks like the roof may have taken a direct hit from a tree branch or something else.

I will say they did a good job on the metal patch and rivets, but the way they sealed it with roof tar is not the best way to create a seal on a camper that is towed down the highway. Yes, roof tar is rated for metal roofs, but on a stationary building, not an RV flexing as it is towed down the road. By this one pic, will have to see the exact location of the rafter to the last row of rivets and where the roof seam lands. You may be able to cut off all the riveted metal to create your rear roof-to-rear siding seam. Need a few more side pics to see where the roof metal lies on those last rafters so we can tell better.

The AC hole in the ceiling is not from Sunline; they did that opening differently.

You will need to update the ceiling opening to a reinforced opening to allow the roof decking to create a solid, supported framework on all four sides. That allows the AC unit's roof gasket to be supported 100% solidly around the entire perimeter of the opening, creating a good seal. The AC unit needs to be at the highest point on the roof to allow water to shed away from the roof's gasket. It looks like they are using 1/2" thick wood on the left and right sides of the opening. That is an issue; you really want 1 1/2" thick wood (2 x 4 or what is needed) in place of the 1/2" wood. It's not a major change, just to understand the needs for proper gasket compression.

The 1/2" whiteboard attached to the rafter side is not so much of an issue. It's the other 2 white board sides that are the issue. If you look at the vent hole just behind the AC, that is what Sunline created: a solid four-sided opening to support the roof.

Actually, if you look at the opening that a vent was installed in just behind the AC, that is what Sunline did; the opening has total support on the 4 sides. H'mm, maybe that vent hole was to be the AC opening, and the prior owner put a crank-up vent in that hole, and then created an AC opening where they did. I can tell that the opening where the AC was mounted is not factory-created. Air conditioners were an option back when your camper was built. Sunline would run a Romex cable to the area and create a roof opening as standard, but a crank-up roof vent was standard, and if the camper was not ordered with the AC option, then it did not get one. But it could be added later in the field. The more I think about this, the more I think a prior owner may have installed the AC after the camper was built. And when the ceiling was redone, they changed the location.

I have never seen a crank-up roof vent on a Sunline right next to an AC unit. That is not normal. There is nothing wrong with it, but the openings have to be done correctly.

That is all for now.

Thanks for sharing your pics.

John

 

[myabelle]

Thank you for the A+. I hope I can keep that up when in actually working on it, lol.

This is the fridge vent. Lots of mouse action and water damage. It's going to be bad down the joists on the campers left side. (Shiver)

From the fridge vent toward back.

Looking forward.

Also looking forward. I hope that snow is gone soon.

From back right looking forward. Whats next? I think I have to peel back the front and back siding a bit to see the corners?

 

[JohnGB]

Hi Rob,

Your pics again are very good. Now we can see the extent of the water damage more clearly.

You said:

Whats next? I think I have to peel back the front and back siding a bit to see the corners?

Where to start next? The way the camper is built, the front and rear siding go on last at the factory. So it comes apart in the opposite way it went on. The front and rear siding must be removed to allow the side walls to be opened.

To see just how good or bad the front and rear walls, wood, and corners are, yes, peel back the large top front and rear piece of siding by about 12 to 18". All you need to do is pull out the siding staples you can see in your pic. at the corners. Do not try to take off the entire top sheet from the top down; you can curl back 1 to 2 feet and leave the rest stapled on, to get a look at just how good or bad those corners wood are. Then you can sort out whether more siding has to come off, and that starts at the bottom and works up, not top-down.

Use an approx. 3/16" to 1/4" wide, thin, flat-blade screwdriver that is OK to tap the handle to get under the staple and pry it up a bit, until you can grab it with pliers to pry it up. Try not dig down into the siding as it can make holes in it. The screw drive will be more parallel to the side than straight down. And sometimes, the siding rips apart, getting the staple out. It happens, and we can show how to deal with it, as long as there are only a few that way.

You can see in this pic, I have the front siding peeled back about a foot or so, and that is enough do a good enough inspection. Now, if the water damage is bad, then more siding may have to come off, and you start that at the bottom and work up. See the posts I linked to in my other repairs on how to do that. Here is one of them 2004 T2475 Repair - Project Camper No 2

Once you get the front and back curled back, you can go on to look at how good or bad the side wall top plate is. The front and rear siding is over the bent tabs on the side walls; that is why the front and rear siding must be removed to open the side wall. In this picture of yours. What you are going to do is "only" pivot back the top side of the last piece if the sidewall is in. Again, this is a tip-out of the siding and has to look just like the front and rear you just did. Do not try to take off the top side piece, as it is stapled on the bottom, where you can get to, well, just yet anyway.

You will see the staples at the top of the sidewalls siding that staple the top edge into the rafter outer band board.

You can see the staples at the top here in this pic of yours. Where the rot is really bad, the staples may be rusted off.

You will also have to unstaple the left side siding tabs on the front and rear corners of just that top piece of siding. Then you can tip the top of the top piece of siding back to see the top plate on the wall studs and the tops of the wall studs.

What you are doing is trying to see what you can on the top part of that left wall. If you have many wall studs with rotted tops, we need to create a plan to repair them. The rafters, outer band board, and the walls' stud top plate will be replaced from above, but if the wall stud tops are gone, well, there is nothing to support a new top plate, etc.

We only have this one pic of the left side wall, and it does not show much.

If you find you have rotted wall stud tops, we need some pictures of the left side wall so we can suggest a plan to fix them. Need pics, ideally, of the entire left side wall from roof to ground, and of the full length of the camper to see all the wheel wells and windows. If you have room to take a pic straight on, from far enough back of the entire side of the camper, that will work. Even if the pic was taken when the camper was outside. We just need to see everything mounted on that left side wall.

If needed, and you can't get the whole wall in one pic, then take a few pics from each end looking down the wall. I see the camper is near a barn wll on the left side.

I hope this helps, and good luck. You are doing great!

John

 

[myabelle]

Hi John, yes it more than helps and thank you for your expertise. I have to read your posts about 5 times before it starts to sink in.

It is hard to get the side shots, it's a little tight in the barn, but here goes on the left side...

Back window.

Whatever this is and the electric cord spot.

Front.

And for your viewing pleasure...

Back left corner. The right back corner where the hole and tar are isn't too bad. I didn't remove staples over there yet.

From the back. I can't believe there's still dampness on some of those studs. A few of them are ok.

Have a nice evening!

 

[JohnGB]

Hi Rob,

You are very welcome. You are doing a great job. These kinds of repairs seem to have legs to them and keep on growing...

The left rear corner is not a surprise, nor is the outer left-side rafter band board. That rot damage is not new. That is many years' worth of degradation to reach that level.

And yes, the wetness can stay in a camper a long time, especially if the seaper leaks keep coming in.

Did you get a chance to see the front left corner?

And were you able to see how many left-side wall studs had really bad wood on top of the stud? A stud that is really bad in a corner location sometimes has a few tricks for repairing it without removing all the left-side siding. But if they are out in the middle, it gets more complex.

The left rear corner, well, it tells a story. Odds are high that water went down the left corner of the camper.

I'll wait until you can report back with further inspection of the front left corner, left wall studs, and the right side before suggesting a course of correction. But I will start letting you know now: odds are high the rear siding may need to come off due to that very degraded left rear corner, possibly the left side wall, and the front to fix the wall studs. You already have the skills to do this; you just may need some help knowing where to start.

The left side wall pics are good. I can see what needs to be done if the siding needs to come off.

I'll ask now, as you will need an air stapler to put the roof back on? And, do you have a small air compressor that can run an air stapler? An 18-gauge, 1/4" wide, crown stapler that can drive 1" to 1 1/4" long staples is what can be used. This staple width size is a little narrower than the 5/16" wide Sunline original, but getting exterior-rated 18-gauge 1/4" crown staples is very common at the lumber yards. I have used this size of staple siding a lot and have had no issues with it.

This is what I use on the siding. This one costs more, but I use it a lot, so the cost is justified. Lowes, Home Depot, and Menards all sell different brands of these all at varying prices. Even Harbor Freight has a $40 one that will work if you are only using it for this one camper.

Renting one may also be an option, but for the number of days you may end up with, buying one may be cheaper than renting. But something to check.

John