Power Converter Upgrade

[JohnGB]

Fellow Campers

This past weekend I completed my power converter upgrade. What started all this was my converter developed a severe fan vibration noise problem. I’m talking cement mixer quality sound here that goes off in the middle of the night when the furnace turns on and draws large amounts of current from the system. Heat builds in the converter and then the fans turn on and wake the dead (and living…) Noise follows for a good 30 minutes until the fans shut off. It also happens any time the 12 volt system is used heavy enough.

The one I had, a CX6000 model is no longer made. My 2004 T310SR was made Oct 2003. And they stopped making that vintage converter late 2003. Lucky me. I also have a year 2004 T2499 that was made in May of 04 and it has the newer CX600XL version with a lot better fans and converter unit. And of course when I inspected the TT at the dealer, the T310 had no issues with the converter or it had them and the power draw was not enough to kick in the fans. So after enough sleep interrupted nights, I tore into this thing. What gives???

Here is part of the problem. The fans are silicone glued in. The fan comes loose when the silicone dries up and the fan vibrates. So I put some new silicone on and thought, cool I’m good to go for about almost no money spent. Well that did not last long, the bearings in the fans are also shot. If you fiddle with them they will shut up, until the start up rattling again.

After doing some more research, this older CX6000 is not the greatest of battery chargers. So I called American Enterprises and talked to their technical guru. Sure enough everything I explained he knew exactly what I was telling him. As the new CX6000XL version that came out in early 2004 corrected all the older model problems with the fans and being a better battery charger.

They would sell me new fans or a whole new converter if I wanted to upgrade. Staying with the older model the fans are an issue, it just takes enough time. And the battery charge, well what it is what it is.

Then he went into the new 2008 new and improved CX600XL. It just came out in January. It has modulating fans, bigger heat sink, 3 stage battery charging. The next advancement in their technology. I asked if they had any available. He said sure, there is about 6,000 of them in the warehouse. How many do you need?? Just one.

After looking at the price and shipping, I could get a Progressive Dynamics Intellipower PD9260C converter that has 3 stage charging, 4 modes of charging, variable speed fans, desulfation mode and is a fully automatic high quality charger. And for slightly less dollars then the American upgrade. Basically with the Intellipower you are buying a high end quality charger/power supply that is field tested for many years. But no fuse panel and no 120 breaker box. You are paying for the better charger.

On the American new 2008 upgraded one you are getting first year new technology, the full converter housing, fuse panel and AC buss system. No circuit breakers. But it is a drop in exchange.

The 2008 American CS6000XL converter is out of China. After debating this, I went the hiher quality Intellipower route and dealt with making a new location to mount it. If I had at least the 2004 model CX6000XL I would not of went this route but bit the bullet and went for the quality. $222 delivered to my door. The American was $225 plus shipping.

Here is the project in pic’s.

Here is the inside of the CS6000. The fans are behind the power converter

The problem children

The one that fell out in my hand

Now to the upgrade.

Here is the power converter area. I already took the left side Luann panel off in this pic and you can see the shore line door.

The new converter is laying in front.

The new converter mounting box in the making

In the finish dept.

Now the IntelliPower mount

While I was “into” this I also upgraded the shore cord. Who ever had this TT before me must of left the old cord out in the sun for months on end. This one was worse then ever and would not flex even when it is 75 F out. Not alone when we winter camp. The sun must of bleached out the plastizers in the vinyl.

I was in Home Depot and in the right spot at the right time. They had # 8 awg 3 strand SOOW cord on clearance for $0.17/foot. Yes you read that right. Lucky me. So I picked up enough to redo the shore cord plus add 10 more feet to it.

I also upgraded to the Camco plug with the handle. I did this on the other camper too and it is a nice upgrade. You have to solder the stranded wire to work on these connectors right and not fray all over. Bend it first, then solder.

This handle really makes the inserting and pull out a lot easier and safer. Only problem is the handle does stick out a bit and the cover on the power post does not 100% close. The could of made it 1/4” narrower and it would of fit perfect. The cover still comes all the way over and rain protects all the receptacles so it is not a big issue. More me noticing they could of made it shorter and still work well.

Here is the wiring in process. Boy what a jumbled up mess that was in there. These boxes need to be bigger.

I also added a DC power display and alarm for dry camping. I can see what the converter is doing to the battery or what the system drain is on the battery before it gets too far drained.

And the completed project. The new converter mount is a hindged door and it is up off the carpet by 1". This allows air to be moved thru the new converter. It also allows me to get an extra 120 VAC lead cord into the camper in the winter for more power to run extra heaters.

The converter is on and running with no battery as you see it.

Turning the system on and listening to total quite was amazing. And the rock steady voltage was too. I had the monitor on the other unit and the voltage would flutterer around quit a bit on the CX6000.

Well all for last weekend

Stay warm. It was 35 on Saturday, 61 on Sunday, today it is 13 Brrrrrr

John

 

[Indy-Jim]

Hi John - Just read your writeup regarding upgrading your converter system. Looks like you have your problem solved. Just for a matter of interest, my CS6000 drove me nuts due to the fan noise as they ran continuously, never shutting off. They really were not that noisy, however, at night when all is quiet, they were very bothersome but I learned to live with it. Come last August, I noticed that the 12 Volt level was fluctuating considerably so started monitoring the voltage. The voltage would drop down to 8 volts and stay there. If you unpluged the shore power and pluged it back in, the voltage would be near the 12-13 volt level and then slowly go down to eight volts again. I pulled all the fuses to take all loading off the supply, and it still did the same thing. I called American and the tech rep said I had a bad ocillator on the 12 volt PC board. I asked about a replacement board, which he said was no longer available, as you stated also. He did say that they had a new board for the CS6000XL that would retrofit the CS6000 that was a much better design and reliability, etc. So, I ordered that board and when I received it, I looked at it and thought no way is this board going to fit in my 6000 chassis. So I called them again and stated my concern and they referred me to the chief engineer (I don't remember his name), but he assured me that it would slip right into the area where the 6000 board was. The main thing that made me not think that this board would not fit partially was the fact that the fans were mounted on the front side of the board (facing you when installed). So I took his instructions and successfully installed the board and it works great. The fans have never come on to my knowledge, or if they did I did not hear them, so silence at night is the word. As a last resort, I would have bought a new converter, but did not want to have to go through the hassle with all that rats nest of wiring that would need to be rewired to the new one. All in all, the new PC board cost $125 and was worth it not to have to do all that rewiring. Perhaps if someone else comes across this problem, they may want to consider the XL PC board (Part Number 204) rated at 60 Amps.
Congratulations on your upgrade to your system and it looks great!
Jim

 

[ROC-REQS]

John,

Excellent job, thanks for sharing the pictures and describing what you did.

... It also allows me to get an extra 120 VAC lead cord into the camper in the winter for more power to run extra heaters. ...

This comment about allowing you to get extra lead cords into the camper. Are you talking about an extra extension cord that you would fish through the shore power access door and then into the camper by leaving the converter’s hinged door open a little?

If I’ve understood you correctly, one suggestion, you may want to install a 20 Amp wall outlet on the hinged door (or some other place in the cabinet). Then wire up the outlet to a male end of an extension cord with enough slack to reach the shore power access door. Then you could connect your outside extension cord to this male plug and the 20 Amp outlet would be your independent power source giving you the power for your extra heaters.

Hopefully my explanation is clear enough.
Though I see what looks to be an outlet on the side of the cabinet in the last picture, maybe you’ve already done this.

Thanks again for sharing your handy work.
Hutch

 

[mbart5fan]

John,

Great job in explaining and showing your power supply project. Your detailed explanations and numerous pictures of all your projects are very helpful. The DC power display and alarm caught my eye in this project. What brand are they and where did you get them. I camp mostly at state CG's with no amenities and the power display would be much nicer for monitoring my batteries.
Keep up the good work,
Mike

 

[JohnGB]

Hi John - Just read your writeup regarding upgrading your converter system. Looks like you have your problem solved. Just for a matter of interest, my CS6000 drove me nuts due to the fan noise as they ran continuously, never shutting off. They really were not that noisy, however, at night when all is quiet, they were very bothersome but I learned to live with it. Come last August, I noticed that the 12 Volt level was fluctuating considerably so started monitoring the voltage. The voltage would drop down to 8 volts and stay there.

Congratulations on your upgrade to your system and it looks great!
Jim

Jim

Thanks for the kind words.

Your post sounds almost identical to what to my prior problem. Seems the CX6000 is what it is....Just my fans would go nuts and loud. They woke me up they where so loud. I go out, bang on the cover, it would shut up and run smooth. Until I played back down, about ready to fall asleep and Gerrrrrrrr. ERRRRRR!!! It was almost comical. Actually it was. Some time I would tap it and it would get worse… . DW says, you should of left it alone… .

Here is the CX6000XL as you where describing with the fans in the front. My T310SR missed getting this version by about 4 months….My 2004 T2499 built in May of 04 has it already in it.

But I’m happy now.

Thanks

John

 

[JohnGB]

Hutch

First off, thanks for the kinds words.

On the cord, Well you "almost" guessed it. This is how I do it.

2 cords thru the same hole, stacked on top of each other. Then I put a left over shopping plastic bag warped around them and close and lock the door. I always use the bag even with 1 cord. Help keep the bugs out. In winter helps keep cold out.

I have not yet added the extra receptacle inside. It is on the to-do list and was high up the list until this converter door change as I had to fight it to get the cord inside. Now it just slips under the new converter door air space. I’ll have to wait and see as now I may not even need to do it.

I was going to have a short cord inside wired to the receptacle. With a plug to plug into the lead cord. As since I added 10 more feet of shore line cord, space is tight and I did not want to fight the extra 120 vac small cord all the time rolled up in there. I only use the extra power in the winter months. So I would only use the extra cord when I needed it.

Thanks for the thoughts.

John.

PS by the way, what do you do to cover up the big cord slot in the door? Figured you might have done something in this area. One of these days I will put something there more permanent then the baggie. Have not yet found something better to replace it with that seals up around the cord.

 

[JohnGB]

John,

Great job in explaining and showing your power supply project. Your detailed explanations and numerous pictures of all your projects are very helpful. The DC power display and alarm caught my eye in this project. What brand are they and where did you get them. I camp mostly at state CG's with no amenities and the power display would be much nicer for monitoring my batteries.
Keep up the good work,
Mike

Mike

Here you go.

Voltminder This is where I bought mine along with the converter so I got it for $5 off.

This is the brand.
http://www.voltminder.com/

It comes with a cigarette lighter plug. I had it plugged into the TV wall socket before I mounted it permanently.

I put this in for just the reason you are describing. It has an alarm on it too if you want to use it. You can set it and if the the voltage drops to that number, it goes off and then you can switch batteries or whatever is needed. Or just watch what is going on.

As far as the pics posting and write up. Glad it helps. I know I pick up tips and use bits and pieces from others as well. So glad to share.

Thanks

John

EDIT: 2-22-08 Had some folks ask off line where I tied in the Volt minder. I tied it in parallel with the propane detector fuse. The volt minder does not draw much if any current and this helps protect it from a short. It actually does have a fuse in the end of the 12 VDC plug that comes with it. The plug gets cut off if you tie it in permanent. This also offers the benefit that if I do not see the display working, I know the propane detector fuse is tripped.

Thought this might help others as well. The volt minder ties in, at this locations.

 

[SteveC7010]

PS by the way, what do you do to cover up the big cord slot in the door? Figured you might have done something in this area. One of these days I will put something there more permanent then the baggie. Have not yet found something better to replace it with that seals up around the cord.

John,

I use a 6" length of insulation for 1/2" copper pipe, the kind you'd put on your pipes in the basement. I put a couple of turns of electrical tape on it just to keep the slot closed, and the natural droop pretty much seals up that slot. It slides easily on the cord so you can move it depending on how much cord you need to pull to reach the power outlet.

Looks kinda like this:

 

[315RLTS in PA]

I use the same thing as Steve. Works great

 

[JohnGB]

John,

I use a 6" length of insulation for 1/2" copper pipe, the kind you'd put on your pipes in the basement.

Steve,

H'mm, I like it. That one did not dawn on me.... I have all the stuff in the shed.... And yes it is a step up from the baggie.... Not to mention it keeps cold air out a bit better in the winter.

I have some of those velcro tie wraps. I can use the foam slot to my advantage. Just slip it on where ever the shore cord lands, velcro it up and done.

Ok, it's a done deal. I will "upgrade" to the foam insulation this weekend until I find the next better thing. If I find one. I have been using the bag trick now for 4 years.... So at this rate, somewhere around 2012 I should find something better...

Thanks for sharing.

John

 

[JohnGB]

Added Voltminder tie in location. See 3 replies up in blue. Hope this helps.

John

 

[tervio]

JohnB
This may be old to you but this converter change that you did looks great.
If I do not get good results with my old board which I sent in to Tech support @ American or with the new converter when I get a chance to go up north and look at it I may have to look at changing my unit over also. It is hard for me to see but where is the Progressive Dynamics Intellipower PD9260C getting its power from? Also you say it has a better charging system but it looks like you still made the same connections from the battery so how is the charging different? Problem that I may have is where do I put this converter in a #2363.

Thanks
Tervio

 

[JohnGB]

Hi Tervio

Where is the new PD converter wired into? See here to start with

The power cord is in the spiral wrapped up bundle that then goes around the back of the shore line hole over into the old converter box area. If you are mounting a PD converter you have to leave room for air circulation. So I have room above the fans and on the bottom there is about a 1 1/2 ” space. The new wood hinged compartment is 1 1/2" up off the carpet so it can draw air from the bottom, up the heat sink then stir around above it and out.

The 120 VAC supply cable then goes into the side of the old converter box from the back and lands on the breaker it use to be powered from on the old converter. The ground and common go in that way too. I do not really like the way American has there AC setup. Not enough room for the amount of wires but it worked.

Now why the PD in place of a new American? Well I considered one and I called the American tech wizard to quizzed him. The 2008 and forward is light years ahead of the older ones, however the PD had more features. And it did cost a little more. But I was more after the features.

Here are some:

Both the new CX600XL (post Jan 200 and the PD have 3 stage charging.
Both have variable speed fans.

PD has desulfation mode built in. American does not. This one was big on my must have list.

PD has the charge wizard controller where I can force a charging mode if I so choose to. American is automatic and I can’t force a mode if I wanted to.

PD has a low and high input voltage monitor and shuts down the converter if incoming power is below limits to self protect the unit. I could not find that feature on the American.

PD has high temp heat sink shut down in the event cooling system has a problem. American did not list this feature.

PD has a 2 year warranty as std. American was 1 year.

PD has had there controller on the market longer with all the features, American just came out with the redesign over the prior model at that time in 2008. I have not heard of many (none actually) of PD owners that where unhappy with the performance. To be fair, I have not heard of issues on the American either, but had not found any one but you and 1 other Sunline member with the new controller so I have not heard any bad yet or good either.

The American is a drop in where the PD is not. The PD for mounting is the problem however for me I was able to over come it as I wanted it bad enough.

This summer I boondocked with the PD and she would kick into bulk mode as soon as I plugged in the generator by the charge wizard sensing the battery. And once the battery reached 90% SOC it would kick down into normal mode. I ran put of park genny run time to ever get it to 100% but that just is with any 3 stage system. Running on a genny to get to 100% takes a really long constant run time. Doing daily charges I had no issues. I also have 2, grp 27 batteries in parallel.

For me, my research turned up the PD over the American. However the American is not a bad unit and has many good features, just not as many as the PD.

Where to mount a PD in your TT? Maybe need a few pics to figure that out. I’m not fluent on your floor plan. However the PD does not have to go in the same area. It can be a good distance away from the power box, just you have to deal with that heavy wire on the battery going that far and the AC run. Closer is best, by not a mandate.

Hope this helps and good luck how ever you end up.

John

 

[EMD_Driver]

Very nice job John! Looks even better in-person!

I have said PD converter and wish to install it in the 311. Sunline was nice enough to leave an ABUNDANCE of room to mount it!

My question is, where did you pick up your 120v supply for the PD converter?

 

[JohnGB]

Very nice job John! Looks even better in-person!

I have said PD converter and wish to install it in the 311. Sunline was nice enough to leave an ABUNDANCE of room to mount it!

My question is, where did you pick up your 120v supply for the PD converter?

Hi Gary

I think what you are asking is, where did I tap into to get the 120VAC to feed the new PD convertor? If so I just used that same AC tie in point that was on the old American Enterpize convertor. If I recall right the convertor was on a breaker that also feeds something else.

I gutted the 12 VDC side electronics, kept the 12VDC power fuse strip and kept the 120VAC side intact as PD at that time did not sell the all in one power distrubtion system like they do now as an option.

You can see here how I tapped into the 12DC bus bar

I forgot, what brand convertor is in the 5er?

John

 

[EMD_Driver]

Hi Gary

I think what you are asking is, where did I tap into to get the 120VAC to feed the new PD convertor? If so I just used that same AC tie in point that was on the old American Enterpize convertor. If I recall right the convertor was on a breaker that also feeds something else.

I gutted the 12 VDC side electronics, kept the 12VDC power fuse strip and kept the 120VAC side intact as PD at that time did not sell the all in one power distrubtion system like they do now as an option.


I forgot, what brand convertor is in the 5er?

John

I believe it's a 2002 model of the CS6000. WHat I actually wanted to know, was where did you "Plug" the converter into, for it's 120v power? I had thought about cutting the plug off and stripping about 8" of the outer jacket. I would then wire it directly to the breaker and bus bars, that powered the old converter.

 

[JohnGB]

I believe it's a 2002 model of the CS6000. WHat I actually wanted to know, was where did you "Plug" the converter into, for it's 120v power? I had thought about cutting the plug off and stripping about 8" of the outer jacket. I would then wire it directly to the breaker and bus bars, that powered the old converter.

I cut off the plug, stripped the wire back and wired it directly to the breaker and I think it was on the wall outlets breaker.

No "receptacle" around to plug into or that I wanted to have the plug showing all the time.

Follow your instinct....

 

[EMD_Driver]

I cut off the plug, stripped the wire back and wired it directly to the breaker and I think it was on the wall outlets breaker.

No "receptacle" around to plug into or that I wanted to have the plug showing all the time.

Follow your instinct....

That's what I thought... I'll just wire it into the breaker, that went to the old converter..

Thanks John!

 

[tom39]

JohnB,

I hope it is ok to tag on to your post, it is more or less the same topic and I didn’t think there was a need to start the topic all over again.
Today I had the bright idea to add a power outlet on the side of my garage so I can keep my TT plugged in and not have to worry about dead batteries and also to have light when needed. Well the problem begins with plugging everything in. Without first checking and then wiring everything, I assumed that the shore power cord was wired into the TT to receive @ 220vac. Now I have found out the hard way that that is not the case.

Long story short, I FRIED THE POWER INVERTER!!!!!!!!!

I have disconnected the inverter and all systems appear to be functioning correctly on 12vdc battery and 120vac.

Anyway, my questions for you are:
1. How is the new inverter holding up?
2. Have you had any further issues?
3. Would you do it again if the need arose?

Thanks,
TOM G.

 

[EMD_Driver]

Tom..

Don't feel too bad, I have heard stories of fully licensed electricians wiring up 30AMP RV outlets for 220/240v.

Just to clarify a bit, what you fried, was your converter and not an inverter.

Should you choose to go with a Progressive Dynamics converter, you will not be disappointed. I have installed three of them and they are all still going strong!



Gary



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