Methods used in making our Sunline

[JohnGB]

Fellow Sunline Owners

I recently realized something the way Sunline built their coaches. See these 2 campers bedrooms. They are both the same style front bedrooms. In fact, the cabinets area inside are exact. They have had to be made on a fixture to have 2 campers having internal dimensions that exact. Less then 1/32” difference. I had built custom plastic draws in the T2499 and they exactly fit in the T310SR.

At first, they look very similar.

This camper was built in October of 2003. It is a 2004 model camper.

This camper, same bedroom layout, was built in May of 2004. It is a 2004 model camper

The build dates are roughly only 6 months apart, but they are made different. What do you see? (No it's not the curtains or pillows Think wood)

Two different cabinet makers made these cabinets.

What made them switch methods?

John

 

[Sunline Fan]

John,

I may be tired, but the only difference I see is the center cross bar you have on the 2499 on each tall door.

Was one coach built at the Leola plant? That might explain the difference. The 2004 model year was the last production year they produced in Leola. I think they shut it down in Feb. 2004 when those dumb a**es (minus Dale) took over.

Jon

 

[ParTimCmpr-FRF]

Is it the way the door frames are mitred?

 

[Tweety]

In the Oct. camper the wood grain on the upper cabinets runs vertically. In the May camper it runs horizontally. I wish I knew who the cabinet makers were. I'd really like to have a cabinet made to fit the dinette back in our 2753. There's a good chunk of space there that could fit a book shelf that would hold CDs or paperbacks, or even our flat screen TV.

 

[SteveC7010]

Two different cabinet makers made these cabinets.

What made them switch methods?

John,

Two different processes, not necessarily two different cabinet makers, but likely.

The older cabinet doors are framed with 45 degree miters which require an extra bit of human artistry to produce a quality unit. That quality was always Sunline's hallmark. And those cabinets were likely made in-house by Sunline.

The newer ones are mortise and tenon done with a table router (or other high tech machine tool), and require a bit less "artistry" to produce. My guess would be that the newer cabinets may have been either outsourced rather than produced in-house, or if built in-house, done with the different process as part of a cost-cutting effort. I do think that the quality would be about the same as the older cabinets; just less expensive to manufacture.

It does not surprise me that the dimensions are virtually identical from unit to unit. Isn't that quality part of the reason that we're here talking about it?

Does anyone know if the time frame for the assembly of the two trailers falls into the period when Sunline changed hands?

 

[Sunline Fan]

Two different cabinet makers made these cabinets.

What made them switch methods?

John,

Two different processes, not necessarily two different cabinet makers, but likely.

The older cabinet doors are framed with 45 degree miters which require an extra bit of human artistry to produce a quality unit. That quality was always Sunline's hallmark. And those cabinets were likely made in-house by Sunline.

The newer ones are mortise and tenon done with a table router (or other high tech machine tool), and require a bit less "artistry" to produce. My guess would be that the newer cabinets may have been either outsourced rather than produced in-house, or if built in-house, done with the different process as part of a cost-cutting effort. I do think that the quality would be about the same as the older cabinets; just less expensive to manufacture.

It does not surprise me that the dimensions are virtually identical from unit to unit. Isn't that quality part of the reason that we're here talking about it?

Does anyone know if the time frame for the assembly of the two trailers falls into the period when Sunline changed hands?

Steve,

I do know in recent years, Sunline outsourced the cabinet doors. They built the cabinets and installed pre-assembled doors later on. When I was there for the tour, I remember the cabinet shop was a lot smaller than it was in 2000, or in '97 when my tour movie was made. Unfortunately, I don't know when Sunline started outsourcing the doors.

Jon

 

[emam]

When we did our tour, Carl said that all cabinet doors had been outsourced to a cabinet manufacturer to save some money.

I wish I could remember who he told me made the doors as you could just call them up and have them make you new doors or fix a broken one if need be.

Maybe PM Carl and see if he remembers the name of the company

Pat

 

[Bugle Boy]

Also the wood in the door frames is much better color matched in the older mitered door. Note the use of light and dark wood in the newer door frames. A good wood worker will normally select materials where the grain and color are a close match where the pieces join.

We were there in '06 and they had stacks and stacks of doors from the outsource supplier.

 

[JohnGB]

Fellow Campers

It seems Steve wins the prize of the contest. He was the closest. Good eye. I actually did not realize the difference until about 2 weeks of having the trailer at home. Everything blended so. That they did a good job on. Then I could see it, wait a minute these are built different.

There is more of a mixture of the 2 style of doors even in the same time of manufacturing. So why did they change?? Good question.

See here on the T310SR kitchen made in Oct 2003. Look at the fridge panel and look at the cabinet doors. Both versions exist in the same camper..

And see here on the T2499 made in May of 2004. Now all the same style.

Except in the bath medicine cabinet. There both campers have the same 45 mitered frame on the mirror and the rough finish. It seems the finish goes with the style of making them.

The 2 are constructed different.

The mitered frame has a rougher finish. It is like a polyurethane with small air bubbles in it. But it is so even and on every one that it is made that way. It is not bubbles as they are too perfect of a rough pattern. The center panel is Luann board with the wood simulated type covering. (contact paper)

The mortise and tenon joint doors are very smooth. I can tell the wood has been planed and fined sanded and the finish is very smooth. And the inside panel is vanier board. It is all wood no wood simulated covering. And thicker.

Now which is better?? I do like the finish on the mortise and tennon better and the vanier board centers. While the colors do not exactly match as perfectly that build quality is what caught my eye when I first saw the Sunline brand.

The draw fronts on both models are identical and the finish is very smooth just like the mortise and tenon jointed doors. If the finish on the mitered doors was smooth, it would not bug me as much.
See the drawer here:
The T310SR

The T2499

This table and chairs in the T310SR is immaculate. Again polished smooth just like the drawer fronts.

And here is the inside of the bed room cabinets I was referring to. They had to of fixture’ed up these campers. These plastic drawers I could swap between campers. I was shocked that I did not have to change anything.

The lower support, custom fit to the T2499

The upper piece custom fit to the top

This drawer setup was a no screw in adder in case I ever wanted to remove it. There is no more then paper thickness daylight around these edges in some places and how it fit between the 2 campers, amazing.

I know this whole post was more of a curiosity type of thing as both style doors are very nice. However it seems as time went on they went for the sooth finish as more standard.

Does anyone have a 2003 and older ones with pics or a 2005 and newer with pics to see differences in this shaker style cabinet sets? Don't know if this was a 2004 thing or not.

Thanks

John

 

[ROC-REQS]

Does anyone have a 2003 and older ones with pics or a 2005 and newer with pics to see differences in this shaker style cabinet sets?

Hi John,

Here's some pictures of the cabinet doors in our 1999 Solaris:

This picture of the Bathroom Cabinet doors provide a better view of the miter joints and raised panels.

I know for a fact that these cabinet doors were made by Sunline in their factory.

Here's a picture of the cabinet doors in our 2005:
In this picture, the bottom of the top door shown is the stock cabinet door and the full door shown is a custom cabinet door I ordered from Sunline. I know that Sunline did not make this custom door, that they had it made by the same company that made all their other doors. The stock and custom doors are a very close match.

This picture provides a better view of the mortise and tenon joint used in this door.

This picture shows the kitchen cabinets and drawers in our 2005.

The cabinet styles are very similar to your T2499. The nameplate on the side of our T-280SR indicates that it was made in August of 2004.

My guess is that the doors in both your T310 & T2499 were made by a subcontractor. And that either Sunline changed subcontractors or the subcontractor changed their methods between the time your T310 was made and the time that your T2499 was made. But that's just my guess.

Hope this provides some help in satisfying your curiosity.
Hutch

 

[kanyonkitty]

A difference in my 2499 is the bottom drawer under the kitchen sink, it is not a solid one piece front panel, but one of the mortise & tenion ones.

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[Sunline Fan]

Here's some '03 pics. I made them large so you can see the detail:

'03 2499:

'03 F-304SR

Also, it appears the changeover in '04 is between # 5634 and 5754 at the Denver plant. All the Leola coaches I have have the mitred corners.

Jon

 

[kanyonkitty]

My maple cabinets are nice, BUT I'd rather have the oak from previous years.

 

[poppyandnana]

OK so did anyone else notice that in the 03 photos that the upper cabinets have the fancy "arch" and all the lower cabinets are just straight cut?

 

[ROC-REQS]

A difference in my 2499 is the bottom drawer under the kitchen sink, it is not a solid one piece front panel, but one of the mortise & tenion ones.

Kitty,

Is that bottom one under the sink a drawer or a door?

We have something similar in our kitchen, but the bottom one is a door.

The fronts of the drawers under the dinette and bed are of the mortise & tenion type.

I removed the under the bed drawers and turned the drawer fronts into drop down doors. That created a lot more storage space under the bed for us.

Hutch

 

[ROC-REQS]

OK so did anyone else notice that in the 03 photos that the upper cabinets have the fancy "arch" and all the lower cabinets are just straight cut?

I noticed that. It's similar to our cabinet style in our home. Only our wall cabinets have the arched top and the base cabinets have the squared raised panel.

Though personally I didn't like how the arch came out in some of the smaller wall cabinets that Sunline did. They look out of proportion.

 

[kanyonkitty]

Hutch,
The bottom drawer under the sink is a "real" drawer, not a door. It's kinda nice having a "deep" drawer for those odd things.

 

[ROC-REQS]

Hutch,
The bottom drawer under the sink is a "real" drawer, not a door. It's kinda nice having a "deep" drawer for those odd things.

Kitty,

Thanks - interesting, I don't think I've ever seen a drawer located there. You'll have to show me it at the Eastern M&G

Hutch

 

[JohnGB]

WOW folks, THANKS!

Hutch your front kitchen is beautiful!!! Now I can see why you like it so much.

And Kitty, your 4 drawers under the sink, the bottom drawer??? I would think a solid panel would be easier, but maybe not cheaper.

And Jon, that 2003 T2499, WOW it’s really different. They have the raised panel doors. In order to do that type of construction it would have to be solid wood.

Hutch in your 99, it had the raised panels, where they solid wood?

From putting the puzzle pieces together.

In early 2003, or at least the 2003 model year, the raised panel design was present and it seems to go back to 99 at least.

Then in at least October of 2003, the next style came in. Which were the 45 miter joints with the luane panel contact paper panels.

Then in May of 2004 and forward to at least 2006 on Kitty’s they had the mortise and tenon with the vainer board center panels.

That 5er is even more different and it might just be the 5er’s had the higher end setup. The arched tops doors are more to make, more fancy and more wood. But the 5er’ costs more too to compete with other high end 5er brands

Seems I have the evolution cabinet doors in the T310.

As far as cost, this 45 miter joint with the Luann center panel has to be cheaper to make. However they left that style after about a year of using it.

If I had to choose, for me, it would be the older raised center panels or the newer mortise tenon venire board center panel. However we still really like this camper and the doors would not have stopped me from getting it. I’m a pretty good fuzz pot and it took me 2 weeks after having it at home to even find the difference as we where taking stuff out of the T2499 and had something to compare to.

Thanks again

John

 

[ROC-REQS]

Hutch in your 99, it had the raised panels, where they solid wood?

Yes - our 99 doors were solid wood.

And thanks for the kinds words on our Kitchen. Once Mary saw that floor plan and the kitchen, she fell in love with it and it was a must have. It just took us a few years to make the move to the that trailer.

You know, you could always switch out the doors from the T2499 to the T310