In need of some guidance on sealant putty/tape.

[reliableryan]

Hey all. So I have a new to me 2004 Solaris t1950.

I need to peal back the roof and reaeal some openings/windows.

I'm really just not sure what to use where. I am home repair contractor so the taking apart and putting back together isn't an issue I'm just unfamiliar with the various tapes and putty.

My main questions are

What goes behind the corner trim, windows, and appliance openings? It appears to be quite thick.

Is it different for the other room trim bits (front and back top, and sides)?

And one more question is once I remove the roof trim pieces should I reinforce the the EPDM edge/perimeter that has already been screwed through before.

Thanks all

 

[JohnGB]

Hi and Welcome!

I'm short on time right this moment, but I will get you all the answers to your questions.

You made this statement: I need to peal back the roof and reaeal some openings/windows.

The widow's I will address later, as that is straightforward, but the roof, let's talk about that. You said you want to peel back the roof. What are you trying to do with peeling it back? Explain some so I can help better.

I have restored the same year, 2004, and model T-1950. This post may help you, or at least show you how the camper comes apart. 2004 T1950 Restoration Project - (Ugly Picture Heavy)

I'll be back later today or tomorrow with the sealants that work best for each area, based on what I've found.

I hope this helps.

John

 

[reliableryan]

Thanks for your response John, I appreciate it truly.

Re: peeling back - The back truss has rotted away and I want to replace that and any nearby rot, and the skylight exterior.

Overall the roof seems like it's in really good shape except for the back, and possibly some minor issues in the front (sides and middle seem ok) so I want to just try and repair that without a whole replacement.

I'm sure I'll need to repair some of the vertical studs behind the corner trim but that's very straightforward (accept for what sealant behind that trim). And windows/compartment removal is also straightforward.

Like I said I have years of experience repairing homes. It's just the sealant, what and where, and in what order, is what I lack knowledge on.

Right now my plan for the roof is to remove all the roof trim and skylight.
- peel back to the bathroom exhaust vent, repair rot/other damage and add new exterior dome.
- replace new trim pieces and seal up.

Also my gut is telling me once I'm ready to install the new trim pieces to the roof, that I should reinforce the edge flaps with some kind of tape since it's been stapled and screwed through.

In the meantime, I will read your post again, I've seen it before. It's just so hard to read without a computer. I only have a phone

Thank you again, John

 

[JohnGB]

Hi,

Sorry, this took so long, I've been busy. I'll talk to this one first.

Like I said I have years of experience repairing homes. It's just the sealant, what and where, and in what order, is what I lack knowledge on.

Here, this will help with more details on the sealants as I explained it to another club member Late 70s 11FKS Build

Behind the moldings and windows, doors, etc., they seal to the camper; originally, they used putty tape, like the rest of the RV industry does, still does.

What you want to use that will last is high-quality sealing butyl tape, 1" wide, 1/8" thick, that works in most places. You can trim it if the flange is less than 1". I now use the GSSI brand, which I have since learned is owned by H.B. Fuller, and the website has undergone changes.

Here is the supply house from which I purchase, along with the specifications. GSSI MB-10A on the older format before the Fuller buyout, which tells more about the tape 1 in. wide X 1/8 X 50 ft. High-Temp. Butyl Rubber Sealant Tape (1)

You don't have to get that exact brand, but you should use the same type of butyl sealing tape, not the RV industry putty tape. If you have a local roofing supply or a steel building supply house, they use this high-quality butyl when sealing up buildings. Pole barns even use it. They want a sealing tape that lasts 20-plus years and doesn't require a second thought. See what you can find locally; you most likely won't find it at the average RV dealer, as they will likely sell you the putty tape.

Additionally, you may have noticed how I add extra sealing tape to help fill the corrugations in the siding. This makes a big difference to ensure those moldings, windows, doors, etc. are totally sealed to the siding.

There is also a second step I will add on the siding: you can caulk the exposed joint over the butyl to provide double protection and prevent dirt and mold from sticking to the exposed butyl joint. I have used Dicor nonsag caulk and now also use Geocel Proflex RV. The link above also discusses this topic and provides a link to a post on how to apply it. Dicor Questions. Both Proflex RV and Dicor nonsag lap sealant are applied in the same manner.

A heads up: on either caulk, do not apply it to hot siding (80°F plus) from a hot summer day—everything is drying way too fast for you to tool it out nice and smooth. Also, apply short sections. Use a 2 ft length of caulk, stop, then smooth it out, apply more, and repeat this process in short sections. If you put 4 to 6 ft of caulk down and then try to tool it out, it all gels up, as it starts to cure quickly.

The rear roof leak, as you are describing, can also point to water going down the back wall. The water does not stay in the attic. It seeps down the wall cavities and the corner moldings area. I bring this up as if you are going to open up the roof, ideally, you deal with the back wall at the same time, so you are building on a solid foundation.

Here is a quick way to check if water has reached the bottom of the rear wall cavity. Just above the bumper on the bottom piece of siding are hex head screws, they take a 1/4" hex driver bit to unscrew them. Please remove them and look for rusted threads. See here for the screws I mean.

Pull the screws and look at the threads; if they have rusted threads or more advanced rusted heads, the wood they are screwed into is water-infected. If there is goo on the threads, it's very wet now. The corner moldings screws also tell a story. If they come out rusted, there was or is also wet wood there. The corner moldings, all four of them, are major actors in leaky over time due to degraded putty tape

Now, to the roof, you can do a local repair without removing the entire roof. I have done several of these for friends, and the approach depends on the water damage. The thick corrugate backer the rubber membrane is glued to, wicks water. And when that happens, the corrugated material rots, and the rubber is left with no support. There are fixes for that also; you have to add a substrate to support the rubber so the water will not pond.

If you feel the roof, does it feel bouncy like a tire tube? That is a sign that the backer board is deteriorated and only the rubber remains. Try by feeling how big that boundy rubber band area is and report back. I can give some suggestions on how to work with that.

Also, note that you cannot walk directly on the roof. You have to use 3/8" to 1/2" thick plywood sheets in place of the rafters to support your weight. Use a tarp or other material to protect the wood from abrasion against the rubber. I use 2 ft x 4 ft small pieces of plywood. Easy enough to haul up the ladder and place, sufficient to span the rafters. See here as I am servicing the AC unit.

Let us know how big a spot or spots you have, and I can better help point you to what you need to remove the roof and options for the repair. The gutter rails hold the overlap of the roof membrane to the siding. You can't lift the membrane without the gutter rail partly detached from the area you need to work on.

I hope this helps.

John

 

[reliableryan]

Thanks John. I've been sifting through your original post and picking things up and I saw the part where you doubled up the tape! I appreciate the extra information.

I have most of the problem areas revealed and dissected at this point, and the membrane peeled back just before the AC. I will attach the roof pics and the back looks like the vertical corner pieces will need about 12 inches replaced.

Im probably going to end up doing a whole new membrane, but the catch is I need to move to the trailer 2 hours away in the next few weeks so I may just fix the rot damage and temporarily tape it back together for the move.

I'm going to add plywood as you did.

Thanks for your time John.
Here's some pics for reference

 

[JohnGB]

Hi,

You are doing great! And yes, you are into it. Thanks for the pics, they help greatly!

I've been camping and am now home to see this. I'm not sure where you are in the repair process, but you may have already passed this point. However, I'll throw this out to help the cause.

This post outlines how to save the ceiling and wallboard that is not entirely gone. I have saved many with this method unless all layers of the luan are deteriorated. And you used to treat solid wood with water-stained wood to help prevent dry rot later on. If the wall or ceiling board layers are separated but still have some wood left, then this can help. It also shows a method for fixing the rotted ends of a rafter, where the majority of the rafter is still intact. Repairing ceiling and wallboards using resin treatment

There are times the luan is so far gone, you have no choice but to replace it.

Comments based on the pics.

If the rear wall rafter is mainly gone, consider tracing the profile onto a new 2 x 6 and then using a table saw to make straight cuts with multiple passes to create the arched top. You are making a solid rafter. Making the truss-style rafter has one main issue: the top cord that is arched has stress in the wood if you rip the material from a 2 x whatever. You really cannot just bend it and staple the side plates on and expect it to remain straight on the bottom chord of the ceiling. Overnight, that stress in the arched top chord will pull on the bottom straight chord, and come 12 hours later, neither chord is where you want it. The arch at the top is now wrong, and the bottom is no longer straight. On my next truss rafter build, I will create a steam box to stress-relieve the top cord in the arched shape, allowing the arch to remain permanent. For only doing 1 or 2 rafters, sawing from solid wood will work a lot easier. For the larger campers with AC ducts that run through the truss, solid rafters are not a viable option; however, since you have a nonducted camper, there's no problem.

The shower dome, consider this brand: ICON 1819 Technologies Ltd 01819 Skylight 14" X 22" X 4" White. They are sold in many places, including Amazon, Camping World, and directly from ICON RV Skylight - SL1422. I use the white; I suggest not using the clear, as it looks nice, but it lets all the sun's UV rays in, causing the shower walls to yellow from sunbaking. The walls will turn yellow even with the white, but a lot faster with a clear one

When installing the new dome, refer to my T1950 post and use Butyl caulk between the roof and the dome. SureBond SB 140 or other. Use stainless fender washers on under the heads of the dome screws, zip screws down with the drill/driver and stop short by 1/8" etc. Hand-tighten and do it again to spread the butyl caulk evenly. You are tightening into a pile of goo. And the roof is arched, you do not want to arch the dome, it needs to be flat to last the longest time. The caulk goo creates a seal to the roof membrane and arched roof, allowing for a flat, straight dome. The fender washers spread out the screw head load to prevent it from starting a crack. Most shower dome screw cracks stem from an install that concentrated the load at the screw head. Then, Dicor self-leveling lap sealant was applied over all screw heads and edges of the dome to the membrane.

You mentioned the membrane at the back wall, which will shrink, and you may not be able to reach the edge of the back wall by 1/4" - 1/2" is the worst I have seen. If you are replacing the whole roof, then no worries. if you are only doing a local repair, I have used Eternabond Roof Seal tape to span from the main roof and down the back and side walls. Then, put the molding in place with butyl tape over the top. In this case, these pictures serve as a short-term measure to buy time until a completely new roof is installed, as the EPDM rubber black layer needs to be coated or replaced, since the shed layer of white is at its limit.

With Dicor chaulk

Did you have a chance to check for rusted screws on the bottom sheet of the rear wall?

I hope this helps. Keep up the good work.

John

 

[reliableryan]

Thank you John I read over it all and appreciate all the little details you've included...knowing why steps are done is very important and helpful. Thank you.

I had a feeling about the "spanning the gap" technique but your confirmed that, thanks as well.

Re: skylight install. Good tip! Thanks

Re: 2x6. Good plan I will do that.


RE: rusted screws at the bottom. Theres definitely some very soft plywood under the water heater. I'd say most likely water intrusion from the water heater seal or awning support. Not sure when I'm going to tackle that

I'm going to tackle any future wall repairs from inside as much as possible, and probably that one as well

It looks like you do excellent work and as a carpenter I can appreciate the attention to detail. While it's my nature to do everything the right way, this camper is really only supposed to be a temporary home as I build a timber frame cabin and for staying in when I'm out of state working . So there may be a point at which I say "**** it, good enough" .

Thanks again for your time. I'll update my progress. I should have carpentry done by the weekend.

 

[JohnGB]

RE: rusted screws at the bottom. Theres definitely some very soft plywood under the water heater. I'd say most likely water intrusion from the water heater seal or awning support. Not sure when I'm going to tackle that

I'm going to tackle any future wall repairs from inside as much as possible, and probably that one as well

It looks like you do excellent work and as a carpenter I can appreciate the attention to detail. While it's my nature to do everything the right way, this camper is really only supposed to be a temporary home as I build a timber frame cabin and for staying in when I'm out of state working . So there may be a point at which I say "**** it, good enough" .

Thanks again for your time. I'll update my progress. I should have carpentry done by the weekend.

Thank you for the kind words, much appreciated.

Odds are high, your rusted screws along the bottom can be from corner molding to siding seal leaks. The four corner moldings flex as the camper tows down the road and are the most notorious for weeping over time. The putty tape seal dries up, cracks, and then water starts to seep in slowly. And any other hole in the siding can also be a problem. Yes, the water heater to siding seal, the cargo hole siding seal, the rear window over the bed, and even the DOT lights on the rear wall can be a leak point.

If the screws have rusted threads along the entire bottom of the camper, then the water was sufficient to reach all areas or was coming in from multiple points, which is very common. It's not just one leak, but many small leaks.

You mentioned dealing with other repairs from the inside; I'll show you some of the issues you can encounter doing it that way. Even if you only remove the bottom two pieces of siding from the outside, you can make significant repairs without disturbing the wallboard inside.

The rear wall at the bottom has two 2x3 floor joists spanning the camper under the floor. And the wall studs tie into a separate bottom plate screwed into the 2x3 floor joists. When you remove the bottom piece of siding (yes, the corner moldings, cargo door, and water heater must be lifted), the screws hold the bottom of the siding. The top of the siding is stapled to the wall studs and the corner wall studs. Remove the staples, and the bottom piece of siding comes out. The siding goes on from the top down, and comes off from the bottom up, yes, backwards from house siding, but this is an RV.

The bottom 2 x 3 behind the wallboard, located below the floor, can also be rotted out, and it is structurally supporting the rear wall. You can't get to that wood from inside the camper as it is below the floor. And, the siding is stapled to the wall studs from the outside. If you take the camper apart from the inside and replace rotted wall studs, you can't re-staple the siding to the studs from the inside. The siding and wallboard are part of what contributes to wall strength. The wall strength is a sum of all the little parts they glue, staple and screw the camper together with.

Here are some links to some of the other campers I have repaired/restored for friends on this back wall. The bottom 6 to 12" of wall studs are commonly rotted out, along with the bottom 2 x 3 floor joist. How I deal with all the rotted bottom of the wall studs is:

Snap a straight line across all the bad studs. The height of the line is by the worst rot height. This does not include the corners, as they can be repaired independently; however, all the intermediate wall studs can be repaired by ripping a 2 x 4, 6, 8, 10, or 12 inches wide, and installing it under all the good wood left on the studs.

This link will take you to my Flick'r photo hosting site on a 2005 T2363 with a rear wall leak. This one may be better than yours; the damage up the wall was not that high, but the rear floor joist was.
2005 T2363 wall repair

Here are a few shots from that album.

A wet corner, both sides actually:

Snap a line where all good wood remains. Use a vibratory multi-tool and plunge cut just the stud. You can now see the bottom wet 2 x 3

Take out the rotted rear wall qty 2, 2 x 3's to replace them.

On that camper, I could rip a 2 x 6 to fill in the bottom board to hold all the wall studs. The rotted 2x3s can be replaced.

This link will take you to a 2007 T286SR rear wall repair. It shows how I used Kreg screws (pocket hole screws) to attach the studs to the new lower band board. The SR (slide room) campers are built differently on the rear all, not like yours, but the same kind of rot issues.
2007 T286SR Rear Wall

A couple of quick pics from there showing the Kreg process.

I'm not sure when you'll start working on the rear wall, but the above are some things to consider before the time comes. Ask away about any questions.

I hope this helps,

John