Hot water
- Thread starter tk0613
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- sunlineclub
Hi,
Getting through your three simple questions may take a few replies, but here is a start.
For your 2000 T280SR, that front kitchen floor plan only has a few places Sunline could install the water heater, as it needs room outside and inside the camper. Go outside the camper and look at the right sidewall. Right means the entry door side (passenger side in a car). Look for a white metal door that looks like this. These pics are not of your exact model, but all models from Sunline for many years used this same heater. Your year 2000 camper should look like this unless someone changed something.
The outside with the door up. This is an Atwood 6 gallon water heater
On the top of the door, there is a spring-loaded pull-and-turn latch; when you turn the latch to align with the slot, the door will fold down and look like this.
Due to the size of the water heater, I suspect it may be in the outside wall, where the inside is under the kitchen sink or the fridge. Have a look outside the camper and find the heater. That is where the heater is located. If yours looks very different, please post a picture of what it is, with the brand and model number. It may have been converted to a Suburban brand due to a parts shortage early in COVID.
Next question.
We need information from you for these questions. You may have an all-LP gas water heater or a combo LP gas and electric. We have to determine whether it is a combo water heater or all gas, and what tank panel/on/off switch setup Sunline gave you.
Outside the camper, with the door down, facing the open door, on the right-hand side is a model number sticker for the Atwood. If that sticker is still readable, what is the model number?
The sticker will be similar to this, but the full model number may be different.
You may not have the sticker anymore, or it may have faded. In this case, we can back into the model by pictures. Take a picture of the outside of the water heater with the door down. An all-gas water heater has different controls than a combo water heater.
Then comes the electric operation option. Now that you know where the water heater is located, go inside the camper and look at the back side of the heater. It will be behind a door you open or a drawer, etc.; you may have to remove it to see the back side of the heater.
This picture is from a 2003-built camper. Yours should be close to the same if it is still the original and has that vintage electric element control system on the back of the water heater. It also shows the water heater bypass system, which you must learn about.
The yellow electric Romex cable on the left of the heater indicates that it has the electric option, and there is also a small black rocker switch there.
Here is the metal box cover with the black rocker switch for the electric option if yours has a metal cover, no cover, or a plastic cover, that gives us information on what model it may also be.
Does your water heater have any Romex cable going to the back side of the water heater? Pics here really help as they tell us what you have.
Next, what style or brand tank panel did Sunline give you? I'm unsure what year Sunline started using the KIB brand tank panel. This picture is of one of the KIB brand panels Sunline used in the earlier days, and this vintage had two red switches on it.
In your floor plan, that tank panel might be in the bathroom, by the sink, or in the kitchen near the sink. Have a look and take a pic of what you have.
Sorry for all the questions, but on a 20-year-old camper, someone may have changed something, and it is not original. While many of us know a lot about Sunlines and we can help, unless someone with the exact year and model sees your post, they may not have the correct answers to what yours looks like. Sunline continued to update the design, and applications changed as the years passed. If we know the make and model of your appliance, then the model year does not matter as much.
Please tell us what you have so we can better answer your questions about using your water heater's features. Some options could come with the heaters, and not all campers had all the possibilities until later years when options became standard.
I hope this helps
John
Getting through your three simple questions may take a few replies, but here is a start.
For your 2000 T280SR, that front kitchen floor plan only has a few places Sunline could install the water heater, as it needs room outside and inside the camper. Go outside the camper and look at the right sidewall. Right means the entry door side (passenger side in a car). Look for a white metal door that looks like this. These pics are not of your exact model, but all models from Sunline for many years used this same heater. Your year 2000 camper should look like this unless someone changed something.
The outside with the door up. This is an Atwood 6 gallon water heater
On the top of the door, there is a spring-loaded pull-and-turn latch; when you turn the latch to align with the slot, the door will fold down and look like this.
Due to the size of the water heater, I suspect it may be in the outside wall, where the inside is under the kitchen sink or the fridge. Have a look outside the camper and find the heater. That is where the heater is located. If yours looks very different, please post a picture of what it is, with the brand and model number. It may have been converted to a Suburban brand due to a parts shortage early in COVID.
Next question.
We need information from you for these questions. You may have an all-LP gas water heater or a combo LP gas and electric. We have to determine whether it is a combo water heater or all gas, and what tank panel/on/off switch setup Sunline gave you.
Outside the camper, with the door down, facing the open door, on the right-hand side is a model number sticker for the Atwood. If that sticker is still readable, what is the model number?
The sticker will be similar to this, but the full model number may be different.
You may not have the sticker anymore, or it may have faded. In this case, we can back into the model by pictures. Take a picture of the outside of the water heater with the door down. An all-gas water heater has different controls than a combo water heater.
Then comes the electric operation option. Now that you know where the water heater is located, go inside the camper and look at the back side of the heater. It will be behind a door you open or a drawer, etc.; you may have to remove it to see the back side of the heater.
This picture is from a 2003-built camper. Yours should be close to the same if it is still the original and has that vintage electric element control system on the back of the water heater. It also shows the water heater bypass system, which you must learn about.
The yellow electric Romex cable on the left of the heater indicates that it has the electric option, and there is also a small black rocker switch there.
Here is the metal box cover with the black rocker switch for the electric option if yours has a metal cover, no cover, or a plastic cover, that gives us information on what model it may also be.
Does your water heater have any Romex cable going to the back side of the water heater? Pics here really help as they tell us what you have.
Next, what style or brand tank panel did Sunline give you? I'm unsure what year Sunline started using the KIB brand tank panel. This picture is of one of the KIB brand panels Sunline used in the earlier days, and this vintage had two red switches on it.
In your floor plan, that tank panel might be in the bathroom, by the sink, or in the kitchen near the sink. Have a look and take a pic of what you have.
Sorry for all the questions, but on a 20-year-old camper, someone may have changed something, and it is not original. While many of us know a lot about Sunlines and we can help, unless someone with the exact year and model sees your post, they may not have the correct answers to what yours looks like. Sunline continued to update the design, and applications changed as the years passed. If we know the make and model of your appliance, then the model year does not matter as much.
Please tell us what you have so we can better answer your questions about using your water heater's features. Some options could come with the heaters, and not all campers had all the possibilities until later years when options became standard.
I hope this helps
John
Last edited:
Hi,
You did very well on the pics,
and now we can see what you have and what you inherited when you bought the camper. This is why it helps when you come with pics. You may not yet know what normal is supposed to be, but we can see that in your pics to help you better. And if a prior owner changed something.
You have the Rev 9 Atwood combo LP gas and electric water heater. I can see a problem, which may explain what you see.
This picture "looks" like there is no circuit board to run the heater's LP gas mode. The white plug is hanging out in the open, and the ignition cable is not plugged into anything. It is hard to see the circuit board. Is there one there?
This is what a Rev 9 circuit board looks like with all the parts of the controls
It may be that the board died, and a prior owner did not want to replace it and only ran it on electric mode. That is technically doable; they may have been on shore power all the time and did not need the LP gas mode when camping without shore power.
The next topic is this picture.
Your water heater switch in the bathroom "only" turns on the LP gas portion of the heater, not the electric portion. The point is, while you have flipped that switch on, the heater will not heat with LP gas as there is no control board to turn on the gas and start the ignition. Unless something was changed, the red fault light is generally for an ignition flame fault that comes on when you lose flame. The missing control board would signal to turn on the red light when a flame fault happens. There is no control board, no light. If your light is on, someone may have rewired something. Is your light on?
Now, how does the electric portion work? Two switches must be on for it to heat on electric mode.
Please take a look at the back of your heater in this picture. There is a white Romex cable going to the small metal control box. Next to where the cable goes in is a rocker on/off switch. That switch is one of the two switches that has to be on. It is often left on, and it is so hard to flip it on or off.
The next switch is a 125-volt AC circuit breaker inside your power center. Look for that power center, open the door, and look for the last 15 amp circuit breaker in the row. It would be at the far end of the breakers from the main 30 amp. Look at the label, and it should say water heater.
When you turn on that 15 amp breaker and the rocker switch is on on the back of the heater, AC power will be sent to the water heater's electric element control system, and the heater will start heating. That is if the element is not burnt out and there is water in the heater. Remember, your heater was bypassed; the heater may be totally empty of water. Inside the metal cover are a T stat and high-limit temp controls. You give the system 125 VAC, and it does the rest to heat and keeps it hot at 140F. The T stat will open and stop heating when you reach 140F and then turn on again as the water temp drops.
What have you done to prep the water system or water heater for start-up? I see the drain plug with a radiator drain cock on it screwed in.
Your prior owners may not have treated the water heater very well. I have seen the drain cock setup before; yes, it allows the heater to be drained easier. However, there are some drawbacks to it. That steel or brass adapter is screwed into an aluminum tank. The tank can be cross-threaded by the stronger metal of the plug, which is easy to do when it is screwed in and out for spring cleaning if it was ever cleaned. Atwood used a nylon plug on purpose, so you will cross-thread the plug and not the tank if it is screwed in on an angle. You replace the cheap plug and not the expensive tank.
I start with a compressed air check on any camper I restore to ensure there are no holes in the tank before I put water in it and the camper. Easier to clean up an air leak, than a water leak. If you have a small air oil free compressor, you can test for leaks using 50 psi of air. I can explain how if you have access to the compressor and can regulate the pressure. If you have no compressor, you can do the water flush with a wand and look for leaks at no pressure, as the wand cleanout should be done every spring to get all the crud and minerals out of the bottom of the tank.
Camco sells a water heater cleaning wand that looks like this. RV parts places sell them; they are not that expensive. It looks like this on the end of a garden hose.
You remove the drain plug, insert the cleaning wand, and turn on the water. Rotate the wand as you are flushing to spray all over the inside. All kinds of stuff will come floating out. You keep flushing until there is no more crud coming out. It can take a while if this has not been done in a long time. You move the wand back and forth and rotate it to stir it all up and float it out. Whatever you do, shut the water off before you pull the wand completely out, or you will get very wet... Ask me how I know. It happens; it's only water.
You do not need full-blast power on the water, as the wand will bend. Open the water valve as much as you can, but not to the point where the wand bends all up.
When you have some water in the bottom, go inside and look for leaks. The tank has no pressure, but if it drips with zero pressure, it will leak constantly when under pressure. That heater may be the original. If it has been cared for, it can last 25-plus years. But it can leak in much less time if it is not cared for. There is no control board, and your heater was bypassed, which may indicate other issues. Hopefully, the tank is leak-free.
That should get you started. If the tank leaks, you will need to sort out plan B before you turn off the bypass and return the system to regular operation.
Feel free to ask more on this or anything you do not understand about what I said. Glad to help.
John
You did very well on the pics,
and now we can see what you have and what you inherited when you bought the camper. This is why it helps when you come with pics. You may not yet know what normal is supposed to be, but we can see that in your pics to help you better. And if a prior owner changed something.You have the Rev 9 Atwood combo LP gas and electric water heater. I can see a problem, which may explain what you see.
This picture "looks" like there is no circuit board to run the heater's LP gas mode. The white plug is hanging out in the open, and the ignition cable is not plugged into anything. It is hard to see the circuit board. Is there one there?
This is what a Rev 9 circuit board looks like with all the parts of the controls
It may be that the board died, and a prior owner did not want to replace it and only ran it on electric mode. That is technically doable; they may have been on shore power all the time and did not need the LP gas mode when camping without shore power.
The next topic is this picture.
Your water heater switch in the bathroom "only" turns on the LP gas portion of the heater, not the electric portion. The point is, while you have flipped that switch on, the heater will not heat with LP gas as there is no control board to turn on the gas and start the ignition. Unless something was changed, the red fault light is generally for an ignition flame fault that comes on when you lose flame. The missing control board would signal to turn on the red light when a flame fault happens. There is no control board, no light. If your light is on, someone may have rewired something. Is your light on?
Now, how does the electric portion work? Two switches must be on for it to heat on electric mode.
Please take a look at the back of your heater in this picture. There is a white Romex cable going to the small metal control box. Next to where the cable goes in is a rocker on/off switch. That switch is one of the two switches that has to be on. It is often left on, and it is so hard to flip it on or off.
The next switch is a 125-volt AC circuit breaker inside your power center. Look for that power center, open the door, and look for the last 15 amp circuit breaker in the row. It would be at the far end of the breakers from the main 30 amp. Look at the label, and it should say water heater.
When you turn on that 15 amp breaker and the rocker switch is on on the back of the heater, AC power will be sent to the water heater's electric element control system, and the heater will start heating. That is if the element is not burnt out and there is water in the heater. Remember, your heater was bypassed; the heater may be totally empty of water. Inside the metal cover are a T stat and high-limit temp controls. You give the system 125 VAC, and it does the rest to heat and keeps it hot at 140F. The T stat will open and stop heating when you reach 140F and then turn on again as the water temp drops.
What have you done to prep the water system or water heater for start-up? I see the drain plug with a radiator drain cock on it screwed in.
Your prior owners may not have treated the water heater very well. I have seen the drain cock setup before; yes, it allows the heater to be drained easier. However, there are some drawbacks to it. That steel or brass adapter is screwed into an aluminum tank. The tank can be cross-threaded by the stronger metal of the plug, which is easy to do when it is screwed in and out for spring cleaning if it was ever cleaned. Atwood used a nylon plug on purpose, so you will cross-thread the plug and not the tank if it is screwed in on an angle. You replace the cheap plug and not the expensive tank.
I start with a compressed air check on any camper I restore to ensure there are no holes in the tank before I put water in it and the camper. Easier to clean up an air leak, than a water leak. If you have a small air oil free compressor, you can test for leaks using 50 psi of air. I can explain how if you have access to the compressor and can regulate the pressure. If you have no compressor, you can do the water flush with a wand and look for leaks at no pressure, as the wand cleanout should be done every spring to get all the crud and minerals out of the bottom of the tank.
Camco sells a water heater cleaning wand that looks like this. RV parts places sell them; they are not that expensive. It looks like this on the end of a garden hose.
You remove the drain plug, insert the cleaning wand, and turn on the water. Rotate the wand as you are flushing to spray all over the inside. All kinds of stuff will come floating out. You keep flushing until there is no more crud coming out. It can take a while if this has not been done in a long time. You move the wand back and forth and rotate it to stir it all up and float it out. Whatever you do, shut the water off before you pull the wand completely out, or you will get very wet... Ask me how I know. It happens; it's only water.
You do not need full-blast power on the water, as the wand will bend. Open the water valve as much as you can, but not to the point where the wand bends all up.
When you have some water in the bottom, go inside and look for leaks. The tank has no pressure, but if it drips with zero pressure, it will leak constantly when under pressure. That heater may be the original. If it has been cared for, it can last 25-plus years. But it can leak in much less time if it is not cared for. There is no control board, and your heater was bypassed, which may indicate other issues. Hopefully, the tank is leak-free.
That should get you started. If the tank leaks, you will need to sort out plan B before you turn off the bypass and return the system to regular operation.
Feel free to ask more on this or anything you do not understand about what I said. Glad to help.
John
Hey John,
Thank you yes. The tank is leak free I did flush the system before we used it. I check the water heater for leaks before I used it. I have an inspection camera made for this and made sure the entire camper was good. I took it to an RV dealer before we purchased it for $3,000 and the RV dealer said nothing was wrong except the slider room motor and the galley sink need a new faucet. After we purchased it we took it to the dealer to have tires put on and they offered us $18,000 for it. The reason they told us is that sunline is no longer manufactured and out of business. We declined. We used it to move from the east coast to the west coast.
I also want to thank you for your help with my questions.
one question I havnt asked is if I hook up to my hose on my house to i need a water pressure regulator for the city water hook up?
Thanks,
Tyler
Thank you yes. The tank is leak free I did flush the system before we used it. I check the water heater for leaks before I used it. I have an inspection camera made for this and made sure the entire camper was good. I took it to an RV dealer before we purchased it for $3,000 and the RV dealer said nothing was wrong except the slider room motor and the galley sink need a new faucet. After we purchased it we took it to the dealer to have tires put on and they offered us $18,000 for it. The reason they told us is that sunline is no longer manufactured and out of business. We declined. We used it to move from the east coast to the west coast.
I also want to thank you for your help with my questions.
one question I havnt asked is if I hook up to my hose on my house to i need a water pressure regulator for the city water hook up?
Thanks,
Tyler
Hi Tyler,
First off, you are very welcome. We are glad to help as we can.
Good for you; you already flushed the heater, and there are no leaks.
Some things I forgot to add since you are new to this:
When you use the electric heating element for the first time, the water may take 30 to 45 minutes to get hot and stop heating. The entire heater is cold, and all 6 gallons of water so that it will take longer. On electric-only mode, you will not hear many sounds when the unit is heating.
If you have both switches on for the electric mode to heat, and you have gone 45 minutes to 1 hour and still are not getting any temperature change, even a little, after you let the faucet run long enough to purge the water in the pipes, the element may be burnt out. If someone ascendency starts the heater with no water, it will melt the element open quickly. This may have even happened if you just flipped on that 15 amp breaker thinking it needed to be on, and there may not have been water in the heater. The elements are not costly, but getting to the fitting to change it out and then get it unstuck from corrosion in the tank can be a challenge. Let us know if you ever need to change it, and we can help give you some pointers.
If you see your safety relief valve dripping on the water heater when you are heating water, there is a way to help reduce and eliminate that. If (when) that happens, let us know I'll type some more.
With this vintage heater and no easy-to-flip on-and-off wall switch installed for the electric mode, I have seen many folks use the circuit breaker as an on/off switch. That practice may lead to the breaker going bad in time as they are not made to be an on/off switch.
Some folks have added a standard home-style wall switch to the side of a cabinet where the Romex power cable can be cut into and wired into the new wall switch. They have even added the lighted switch. Here are a couple of versions. You have to have a 15 amp-rated minimum switch.
To answer your question on the water pressure regulator, for a campground with water hookup to the city water connection on the camper, yes, use a pressure regulator on the incoming fresh water hose. Some camps have very high water pressure, and you must control it down to 45 to 50 psi yourself. If the camp has 65 to 70 psi incoming water, you will have a water heater issue tripping the relief valve when the water heats. And you will stress the system in general.
Now, at home, if you are on a home well, those systems are very stable and in the 50 psi range, which is OK. Even municipal water piped to your house is stable in the 50 psi range unless you know of high water pressure at your home. So, yes, it is OK at home unless you know of very high-pressure issues. I do not use a regulator on my camper at home as I know my system and how stable it is. At the campground, you have no idea.
The piping system in the camper is made of 150psi-rated components, but this is an RV, and there are parts of the system, like faucets, toilet valves, etc., that you do not want to be under high pressure on purpose; you can end up with cone washer seal leaks at the swivel fittings that are hard from years of use, and you may find leaks you never knew you had with higher than normal pressure.
I hope this helps
John
PS. On the slide motor, we can help you track one down. If you do, start a new post on just that and add pics of what yours looks like.
First off, you are very welcome. We are glad to help as we can.
Good for you; you already flushed the heater, and there are no leaks.
Some things I forgot to add since you are new to this:
When you use the electric heating element for the first time, the water may take 30 to 45 minutes to get hot and stop heating. The entire heater is cold, and all 6 gallons of water so that it will take longer. On electric-only mode, you will not hear many sounds when the unit is heating.
If you have both switches on for the electric mode to heat, and you have gone 45 minutes to 1 hour and still are not getting any temperature change, even a little, after you let the faucet run long enough to purge the water in the pipes, the element may be burnt out. If someone ascendency starts the heater with no water, it will melt the element open quickly. This may have even happened if you just flipped on that 15 amp breaker thinking it needed to be on, and there may not have been water in the heater. The elements are not costly, but getting to the fitting to change it out and then get it unstuck from corrosion in the tank can be a challenge. Let us know if you ever need to change it, and we can help give you some pointers.
If you see your safety relief valve dripping on the water heater when you are heating water, there is a way to help reduce and eliminate that. If (when) that happens, let us know I'll type some more.
With this vintage heater and no easy-to-flip on-and-off wall switch installed for the electric mode, I have seen many folks use the circuit breaker as an on/off switch. That practice may lead to the breaker going bad in time as they are not made to be an on/off switch.
Some folks have added a standard home-style wall switch to the side of a cabinet where the Romex power cable can be cut into and wired into the new wall switch. They have even added the lighted switch. Here are a couple of versions. You have to have a 15 amp-rated minimum switch.
Leviton
1/25W-125V Combination Switch with Neon Pilot Light, White 5226-WS. Leviton 1/25W-125V Combination Switch with Neon Pilot Light, White 5226-WS R52-05226-0WS - The Home Depot
20 Amp Industrial Grade Heavy Duty Single-Pole Lighted Handle Toggle Switch, Red 1221-LHR. Leviton 20 Amp Industrial Grade Heavy Duty Single-Pole Lighted Handle Toggle Switch, Red 1221-LHR 1221-LHR - The Home Depot
To answer your question on the water pressure regulator, for a campground with water hookup to the city water connection on the camper, yes, use a pressure regulator on the incoming fresh water hose. Some camps have very high water pressure, and you must control it down to 45 to 50 psi yourself. If the camp has 65 to 70 psi incoming water, you will have a water heater issue tripping the relief valve when the water heats. And you will stress the system in general.
Now, at home, if you are on a home well, those systems are very stable and in the 50 psi range, which is OK. Even municipal water piped to your house is stable in the 50 psi range unless you know of high water pressure at your home. So, yes, it is OK at home unless you know of very high-pressure issues. I do not use a regulator on my camper at home as I know my system and how stable it is. At the campground, you have no idea.
The piping system in the camper is made of 150psi-rated components, but this is an RV, and there are parts of the system, like faucets, toilet valves, etc., that you do not want to be under high pressure on purpose; you can end up with cone washer seal leaks at the swivel fittings that are hard from years of use, and you may find leaks you never knew you had with higher than normal pressure.
I hope this helps
John
PS. On the slide motor, we can help you track one down. If you do, start a new post on just that and add pics of what yours looks like.
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