I have a working fridge, lights, pump, while plugged into shore power. when I unplug the cord I have power from the battery to the converter, but nothing coming out. well nothing that is wired in any how. I have 3 spots for fuses that have power on them but nothing wired to them. My unit is old enough that there is not a battery disconnect switch. (other forums) What am I missing? Fuses were replaced, wiring checks 12VDC at the fuse, and at the main wire terminals on the converter. I don't plan on doing remote camping, but it would be nice if the fridge worked while in transit.
94 solaris rebuild
- Thread starter B.Smith2
- Start date
JohnGB
Senior Member
Site Team
Hi B.Smith2,
Welcome!
I saw in your other post that you have a 1994 Sunline, It really helps when asking tech questions to tell us the year and model number so we know more about what camper you have. And any appliance or item you are working on.
I'm not sure what model and brand of power center you have; someone may have made a change.
You said this
"I have a working fridge, lights, pump, while plugged into shore power. when I unplug the cord I have power from the battery to the converter, but nothing coming out. well nothing that is wired in any how. I have 3 spots for fuses that have power on them but nothing wired to them."
I agree with you, something is not right. Please post a few pictures of your power center, taken from a distance to show the entire setup, and then close-up shots to show the connections and other details. Also include the brand and model number of the power center.
Some of the older power converters had a relay inside that switched when the shore power dropped out and the battery power came on. I'm not sure you have this. We need more info.
If the 12-volt lights, etc, are working, Sunline would always have these 12-volt circuits fused. Something really is not adding up; there should be fusing for the 12 VDC items that works when the power converter is on and when it is off and on battery power. The same fuse protects both power feeds. Yes, there may be spare fuse slots.
Since you have battery power at the converter area when shore power is off and the battery is still connected, it means the battery charge fuse or self-resetting circuit breaker in the small wooden box, located in front of the 7-wire truck cable, is still intact. When the battery charge supply fails, no power from the battery will flow to the power center.
And yes, you would not have a battery disconnect switch from Sunline. Sunline started adding them in the year 2004 models. Between 2005 and 2007, all of them had them. Before storing the camper, you have to unhook the negative battery cable to prevent draining the battery if there is no shore power on the camper.
I hope this helps
John
Welcome!
I saw in your other post that you have a 1994 Sunline, It really helps when asking tech questions to tell us the year and model number so we know more about what camper you have. And any appliance or item you are working on.
I'm not sure what model and brand of power center you have; someone may have made a change.
You said this
"I have a working fridge, lights, pump, while plugged into shore power. when I unplug the cord I have power from the battery to the converter, but nothing coming out. well nothing that is wired in any how. I have 3 spots for fuses that have power on them but nothing wired to them."
I agree with you, something is not right. Please post a few pictures of your power center, taken from a distance to show the entire setup, and then close-up shots to show the connections and other details. Also include the brand and model number of the power center.
Some of the older power converters had a relay inside that switched when the shore power dropped out and the battery power came on. I'm not sure you have this. We need more info.
If the 12-volt lights, etc, are working, Sunline would always have these 12-volt circuits fused. Something really is not adding up; there should be fusing for the 12 VDC items that works when the power converter is on and when it is off and on battery power. The same fuse protects both power feeds. Yes, there may be spare fuse slots.
Since you have battery power at the converter area when shore power is off and the battery is still connected, it means the battery charge fuse or self-resetting circuit breaker in the small wooden box, located in front of the 7-wire truck cable, is still intact. When the battery charge supply fails, no power from the battery will flow to the power center.
And yes, you would not have a battery disconnect switch from Sunline. Sunline started adding them in the year 2004 models. Between 2005 and 2007, all of them had them. Before storing the camper, you have to unhook the negative battery cable to prevent draining the battery if there is no shore power on the camper.
I hope this helps
John
| 8:13 AM (1 minute ago) | |||
|
Yes, the battery is new (03/25, 650CCA deep cycle marine). The first thing I had to do on this rebuild was the wiring on the tow end. After 30 years of patches there was wire nuts and black tape everywhere. I cut out and disposed of the bad wiring back to the junction under the coach. New #8AWG to new grounding lugs on the frame, new 7 wire cord and plug, new 30a fuse assembly on the truck hot to battery, and from converter to battery. I used copper crimp connections and shrink tubing at all wires then put that inside a water tight electrical box. Now on to the converter itself, she is original to the coach. When hooked up to shore power all of the 12VDC/120VAC circuits are operational from the converter. When the green breaker (main) is switched off, we can hear and see the transfer switch snap from one position to the other. At that point the five 15A 12VDC circuits go dead and the 3 battery circuits (acc)are hot, but there is nothing wired to them. Question to give some thought to: Can I move the fridge circuit and the water pump circuit to the ACC side or add a jumper wire from ACC to shore power? I do not plan on doing rustic camping, just looking to keep the fridge cold during transit. Thanks for your time.
Attachments
JohnGB
Senior Member
Site Team
Great pics, they really helped.
I conducted some research on the web and found two documents related to the Magnetek 6300 series power converters. And yes, that power converter has the relay on it I was talking about.
Additionally, I believe Parallax acquired Magnetek and now uses the Parallax name. From what I can find, the 6300 series has been discontinued.
See these two PDFs in our resources area.
The owner's manual explains how the system operates. Magnetek 6300 series power converter manual
A technical document containing wiring schematics for the 67300 series power converters.
Magnetek/Parallax Wiring and Tech info
Reading the wiring diagram on page 8 of the technical document in PDF format, I can see how the converter system works. However, I cannot find any information on how the fuse block system is wired. However, I may be able to identify your problem or suggest a place to troubleshoot further.
This older system begins with a simple AC-to-DC four-diode rectifier, accompanied by a pull-up capacitor, to produce rectified 12 V DC when shore power is plugged in. This is by no means filtered 12 VDC, but it works for lights and motors. The relay coil energizes instantly, closing the normally open contact when the rectified 12 VDC is generated by the shore power. The relay normally closed contacts, then disconnects the battery's 12 VDC from the fuses of the lights and motors. The relay normally open contacts close, and then direct the rectified 12 VDC to run the lights and motors.
The problem appears/ points to be that the relay is not switching the battery power back to the lights and motors' fuse block when the shore power drops out. The fridge, lights, and motors should be powered by the battery when the shore power drops out, and when the normally closed relay contacts are functioning correctly. You are stating that this is not the case if I understood you correctly. It may be that the relay contacts are burnt/welded closed, which is why when you plug into shore power, the contacts pass power to the lights, etc. If the contacts are welded closed and cannot drop back to the normal state, then the battery power will never power up the fuse board.
Take a look and test to see if the relay contacts are actually opening and closing. The relay may just be bad.
Those three spare fuses, which are not wired to anything, I believe, provide "battery filtered" clean 12 VDC power that can be used for sensitive 12 VDC applications. And since there was really no need for clean power in 1994, Sunline never wired anything to them.
Those old Magnetek battery chargers were not the best; however, they do sell a good power converter replacement made by Progressive Dynamics that eliminates the relay and is a perfect replacement for a power converter. See here at BestConverted.com/ Upgrade Kits for Magnetek/Parallax
Best converter knows their stuff. I have bought several power converters from them to replace old ones. I myself just have not yet had to replace the Magnetek , but others on the forum have.
I hope this helps, and let us know how it goes.
John
I conducted some research on the web and found two documents related to the Magnetek 6300 series power converters. And yes, that power converter has the relay on it I was talking about.
Additionally, I believe Parallax acquired Magnetek and now uses the Parallax name. From what I can find, the 6300 series has been discontinued.
See these two PDFs in our resources area.
The owner's manual explains how the system operates. Magnetek 6300 series power converter manual
A technical document containing wiring schematics for the 67300 series power converters.
Magnetek/Parallax Wiring and Tech info
Reading the wiring diagram on page 8 of the technical document in PDF format, I can see how the converter system works. However, I cannot find any information on how the fuse block system is wired. However, I may be able to identify your problem or suggest a place to troubleshoot further.
This older system begins with a simple AC-to-DC four-diode rectifier, accompanied by a pull-up capacitor, to produce rectified 12 V DC when shore power is plugged in. This is by no means filtered 12 VDC, but it works for lights and motors. The relay coil energizes instantly, closing the normally open contact when the rectified 12 VDC is generated by the shore power. The relay normally closed contacts, then disconnects the battery's 12 VDC from the fuses of the lights and motors. The relay normally open contacts close, and then direct the rectified 12 VDC to run the lights and motors.
The problem appears/ points to be that the relay is not switching the battery power back to the lights and motors' fuse block when the shore power drops out. The fridge, lights, and motors should be powered by the battery when the shore power drops out, and when the normally closed relay contacts are functioning correctly. You are stating that this is not the case if I understood you correctly. It may be that the relay contacts are burnt/welded closed, which is why when you plug into shore power, the contacts pass power to the lights, etc. If the contacts are welded closed and cannot drop back to the normal state, then the battery power will never power up the fuse board.
Take a look and test to see if the relay contacts are actually opening and closing. The relay may just be bad.
Those three spare fuses, which are not wired to anything, I believe, provide "battery filtered" clean 12 VDC power that can be used for sensitive 12 VDC applications. And since there was really no need for clean power in 1994, Sunline never wired anything to them.
Those old Magnetek battery chargers were not the best; however, they do sell a good power converter replacement made by Progressive Dynamics that eliminates the relay and is a perfect replacement for a power converter. See here at BestConverted.com/ Upgrade Kits for Magnetek/Parallax
Best converter knows their stuff. I have bought several power converters from them to replace old ones. I myself just have not yet had to replace the Magnetek , but others on the forum have.
I hope this helps, and let us know how it goes.
John
Issue resolved!!! At least temporarily. I moved the fridge circut to the battery side. In a/c mode the converter powers all 8 of the fused links, and the battery only powers the last 3. I left it run all night on battery only. It was 38° this morning, and the battery only dropped off 0.1 VDC. At that rate I would be good for 4 days before the battery would be to low to fire the igniter. WIN FOR THE HOME TEAM!!!!!
JohnGB
Senior Member
Site Team
Yeah Team!!! 
If you are plugged into shore power most of the time, then your fridge's power to the battery terminal move is a workaround.
I'm not sure if you know yet, but does your Magnetek have the optional battery charger feature? And is it working?
You can test if the charger is working with a voltage test "at the battery". With this relay setup, you need to check the voltage at the battery, as the 12 VDC on the main system may not be at the charge voltage.
Here are the nominal voltages when a lead-acid battery is connected to a charger. If your Magnetek optional battery charger is not outputting at least 13. XX volts, it has issues.
13.25 VDC = float mode,
13.65 VDC = standard change mode
14.4 VDC = boost mode. (I do not think your older converter has this mode)
I hope this helps.
John
If you are plugged into shore power most of the time, then your fridge's power to the battery terminal move is a workaround.
I'm not sure if you know yet, but does your Magnetek have the optional battery charger feature? And is it working?
You can test if the charger is working with a voltage test "at the battery". With this relay setup, you need to check the voltage at the battery, as the 12 VDC on the main system may not be at the charge voltage.
Here are the nominal voltages when a lead-acid battery is connected to a charger. If your Magnetek optional battery charger is not outputting at least 13. XX volts, it has issues.
13.25 VDC = float mode,
13.65 VDC = standard change mode
14.4 VDC = boost mode. (I do not think your older converter has this mode)
I hope this helps.
John
JohnGB
Senior Member
Site Team
What model is the fridge? RM 2652 maybe?
Yes, if the thermistor goes bad, the control system goes into freeze mode. However, without knowing the model, I can't be sure that all older fridges do that.
Did you test the old thermistor? If you still have it, you can test it to confirm that the thermister went bad.
This may help; see page 11 for the thermistor test. Dometic refrigerator service tech manual 2007 vers. There is more info in our Resources tab at the top of the forum. When logged in, click it and go to Sunline Kitchen.
If you end up needing a new control board. Dinosaur Electronics makes good-quality boards. I have had good luck with any of their products. Replacement boards for Dometic
Dometic is a mode of discontinuing many parts. In some cases, they supersede with a new part number as the older manuals have all the old part numbers. It's a hunt to find the superseded PN's sometimes. If you need help, please let us know. However, we require the model number and serial number to ensure we are looking up the correct parts. Or post the model sticker inside the fridge, along with a picture of the controls and gas valve setup with the lower vent cover removed outside. Dometic has been known to upgrade the controls on the same model number.
I hope this helps,
John
Yes, if the thermistor goes bad, the control system goes into freeze mode. However, without knowing the model, I can't be sure that all older fridges do that.
Did you test the old thermistor? If you still have it, you can test it to confirm that the thermister went bad.
This may help; see page 11 for the thermistor test. Dometic refrigerator service tech manual 2007 vers. There is more info in our Resources tab at the top of the forum. When logged in, click it and go to Sunline Kitchen.
If you end up needing a new control board. Dinosaur Electronics makes good-quality boards. I have had good luck with any of their products. Replacement boards for Dometic
Dometic is a mode of discontinuing many parts. In some cases, they supersede with a new part number as the older manuals have all the old part numbers. It's a hunt to find the superseded PN's sometimes. If you need help, please let us know. However, we require the model number and serial number to ensure we are looking up the correct parts. Or post the model sticker inside the fridge, along with a picture of the controls and gas valve setup with the lower vent cover removed outside. Dometic has been known to upgrade the controls on the same model number.
I hope this helps,
John
JohnGB
Senior Member
Site Team
Great!!
The good news is that your cooling coil on the back of the fridge is still good. Make sure the camper is level before turning it on when you are parked, at home, or in the campground. Traveling is not a problem as the fluid inside the coil keeps moving. When you run an absorption fridge off level, the fluid inside can burn because it can't keep moving around like it does when you are level. You heat the liquid, and the vapors all go up to where they are supposed to when it is level. If the fluid can't move as it is off level, it starts burning and separating the liquid a little at a time. After enough accumulated burning, a clog forms, everything stops moving, and it's time for a new cooling coil.
For the controls to create the heat —LP gas or electric —we can still get most parts. And even the cooling coil, too, by rebuilders who make new coils and repair old ones. Some parts can come from Dometic; others from the aftermarket when Dometic stops making them. The key is quality aftermarket parts. There are so many knock-off parts out there, and the prices are all over the place. The hard part is sorting out the junk from the better parts.
Keep up the good work. You are doing great!
John
The good news is that your cooling coil on the back of the fridge is still good. Make sure the camper is level before turning it on when you are parked, at home, or in the campground. Traveling is not a problem as the fluid inside the coil keeps moving. When you run an absorption fridge off level, the fluid inside can burn because it can't keep moving around like it does when you are level. You heat the liquid, and the vapors all go up to where they are supposed to when it is level. If the fluid can't move as it is off level, it starts burning and separating the liquid a little at a time. After enough accumulated burning, a clog forms, everything stops moving, and it's time for a new cooling coil.
For the controls to create the heat —LP gas or electric —we can still get most parts. And even the cooling coil, too, by rebuilders who make new coils and repair old ones. Some parts can come from Dometic; others from the aftermarket when Dometic stops making them. The key is quality aftermarket parts. There are so many knock-off parts out there, and the prices are all over the place. The hard part is sorting out the junk from the better parts.
Keep up the good work. You are doing great!
John
JohnGB
Senior Member
Site Team
Looking good!
Yes, these things take a lot of time. Lots of detail work.
You are gaining.
John
Yes, these things take a lot of time. Lots of detail work.
You are gaining.
John
JohnGB
Senior Member
Site Team
You are gaining!
Amazing find on the paneling. Years ago, like the 60s & 70's there were a lot of options for paneling at the lumber yard. Nowadays, not so much. I get my wall and ceiling board at the RV surplus places near Elkhart, IN. It's a hike, but I load up, get enough, and pick up some spares at the same time. It's also the only place I know here to get bare 1/8" laun.
Keep up the good work!
John
Amazing find on the paneling. Years ago, like the 60s & 70's there were a lot of options for paneling at the lumber yard. Nowadays, not so much. I get my wall and ceiling board at the RV surplus places near Elkhart, IN. It's a hike, but I load up, get enough, and pick up some spares at the same time. It's also the only place I know here to get bare 1/8" laun.
Keep up the good work!
John
With the power of the internet, I found a place in the city that deals in 1/8th inch paneling and luan on the cheap. I found the plastic end and seam pieces at the habitat store. But I cannot find the wall paper coated trim for around the door. Any ideas?
JohnGB
Senior Member
Site Team
H'mm,
To this question of yours,
Any chance of a picture of what was there, or similar, in the camper? Of even point, to the area where the trim would go? The pic helps tell exactly what yours looks like.
Sunline changed trim and how they used it over the years, the wording "wallpaper-coated trim around the door". I can't think of what that looks like. I know of some places that sell RV trim, but the trim world is 1,000s of options.
Post a few pics, can help better
John
PS, you scored on the paneling!
To this question of yours,
Any chance of a picture of what was there, or similar, in the camper? Of even point, to the area where the trim would go? The pic helps tell exactly what yours looks like.
Sunline changed trim and how they used it over the years, the wording "wallpaper-coated trim around the door". I can't think of what that looks like. I know of some places that sell RV trim, but the trim world is 1,000s of options.
Post a few pics, can help better
John
PS, you scored on the paneling!
Sunline Fan
Sunline Historian
Site Team
Oh, do you mean the ~1" wide strips, about 1/8" thick, that are covered in the matching wallpaper?
That will be a tough one. Your best bet would be to ask the place you got the paneling from. When I bought paneling for my '79, I bought both those strips in woodgrain (for the woodgrain walls) and wallpaper adhesive seam tape for the patterned wallpaper.
If they can't help, you may need to use woodgrain or plain white molding from Home Depot, etc.
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