2007 T2499 Restoration - Project Camper No. 3. (picture heavy)

[JohnGB]

Part 1, Roof Opening

In this reply, we will start taking the roof apart, which was a new PVC roof install in early 2014, approximately 4 1/2 years ago. You may see several things done differently then Sunline did at the factory and I will be pointing them out as we go.

I do not know the shop who did the new roof; the owner stated they always did good work for him. Each shop has its ways of doing things, and since they cannot explain their approach, I will only comment on what I found. I’m always wanting to learn different ways of doing RV repair; however, some of the findings are different then the methods I have used and learned on how to applying RV roofing. I will say this since camper restorations are so time-consuming I tend to do things the way I feel they will last the longest as reworking a water infection in only a few years is way too painful. The long way sometimes takes considerably more time and others not a lot more. I’m not on a charged fixed bid job on this restoration, so I have the luxury to make the needed time. And then there is worker delegation. The shop owner may have delegated this roof job to one of his workers, and the things found are not indicative of what they usually do.

I started on the right rear corner where the moisture meter shows high levels of moisture under the roof and a soft roof.

Roof remove 1 on Flickr

Directly over the rear left window the roof showed 100% wet. That means it is dripping wet inside.
Roof remove 2 on Flickr

The moisture was lowering as I went towards the center on the rear roof seams. A reading 39% on this meter is still a high number. The wood could the very wet, but not dripping with water. As I reached closer to the center of the camper on the rear wall, the roof dropped to 0%.
Roof remove 3 on Flickr

Roof remove 4 on Flickr

By the moisture meter, the size of the infected roof from 0% dry to 100% wet areas are a triangle shape starting at the rear corner across the back wall approx. 24” and approx. 50” down the right side wall towards the front both starting at the right rear corner joint.

Starting with the right rear corner molding, before the siding removal, I can see the caulking has a split in it at the corner joint. This corner joint area is very problematic for leaks. The flexing of the camper concentrates at the four corners.
Roof remove 5 on Flickr

This is the split I am referring too.
Roof remove 6 on Flickr

You can also see thin sealing caulk over the hex head screw. While that is not yet a problem, it soon will be. The caulk being that thin will split around the hex of the screw and water can start working its way down the screw threads. Over time the screw threads will rust more, and then the water will keep working down into the wood in the wall. The corner caulk split is very close to an active leak if not leaking. From that pic you cannot tell how deep that crack is, but any corner crack is bad news waiting to happen. If it is not wet now, it will be if left untouched in 1 to about 8 months from now left outside in the elements. Heat expands the crack, rain works it way in. Come freezing weather, ice forms in the crack and expands making the crack wider and deeper.

Taking the screw out of the corner molding and some from the gutter rail shows the threads heavily rusted but only some of the screw heads. It is very wet in this area rusting the screw threads from the inside out.
Roof remove 7 on Flickr

The green dried-up mold yuk forming behind the vinyl screw cover is created by water overflowing in the gutter rail. The mold formation is aggravated by heavy dirt and debris remaining in the gutter as the water overflows even faster. Even with a clean gutter channel, water pools in the gutter rail overflowing the gutter and the water gets behind the vinyl screw cover strip. In time the screw heads rust from the outside in. And as time continues when the heads rust enough, water starts wicking down the threads into the wood of the camper roof system.

The next area is the top awning rail. The bracket screws go right through the top part of the gutter rail. That design of awning bracket is an industry-wide issue. To make this worse, the screw threads show no sealing caulk. In my experience and what Sunlines practice was, that is a no-no. You need to apply caulk on the threads of those screws on a new install and on a rebuild, pump caulk into the holes in the roof wood during installation. This seals the screw threads to the gutter rail molding to help keep water out of the wood behind it.
Roof remove 9 on Flickr

Roof remove 8 on Flickr

To show what I am referring to, here is the way we do an awning bracket on a restortion.
coat studs on Flickr

The next area is the top of the gutter rail seal to the roof membrane. I have not (yet) seen in any RV roofing install instructions to leave this joint uncaulked. We found no sealing caulk on the top of the gutter rail molding to the roof membrane. Water can and will wick down between the roof membrane and the gutter rail over time. While butyl sealing tape should be behind the gutter rail, that top rail joint needs caulk on the roofline. Sunline always added it just for this reason. All the other brands I have worked on did it too. I’m not sure if the shop just missed both sides of the camper or their practice is not to do it. See the wet dirt line on the white membrane below the top of the molding as I start to remove the gutter rail. Water was already working itself down.
Roof remove 10 on Flickr

Here you can see the 2 cracks in the PVC membrane from the top awning bracket
Roof remove 11 on Flickr

Roof remove 11A on Flickr

And a better shot. The two holes under the slots in the roof membrane are from the two awning arm lag screws
Roof remove 11B on Flickr

The awning bracket before we cleaned up the roof.
RR awning bracket on Flickr
I’m not sure if the roof membrane slits happened the day they installed the awning bracket, or it happened after a freeze/thaw cycle and then towing flex. Bottom line, high point pressure on this PVC membrane must be considered and mitigated before calling it all done. I have heard PVC roof can crack, and this may be an example of it. Also, those slits happened right on the sharp edge of the wall siding under the membrane. I did not see an effort to blend the roof substrate smooth to the siding walls.

This sharp siding edge is what I am referring too. More on the topic of blending of the substrate to the siding later on.
Roof remove 19 on Flickr

More in Part 2, Roof Opening to be continued.

 

[DoubleH-SUN]

Hi John - I have a 2004 T2499 and I am the original owner. My trailer has over 100,000 miles on it. It is time for me to determine if I should restore it or sell it , not really an option. I LOVE my trailer. Anyway, mine took in water somewhere near the rear chair area. I had pulled that chair out and put my dog's crate in that space. After about 2-3 years, I notice the floor had rotted. Out came the crate, dog and the flooring was replaced back there. It took several tries before the leak was fixed and water stopped coming in.

Everything on my trailer is original and I believe that I should replace the roof and all the appliance shrouds that are on the roof. Also, I believe that I still have water coming in somewhere as my trailer has a musty smell in it between uses. It is more noticeable when air condition runs. This musty smell fades during use.
I want to put some money into the trailer to keep it in great shape. The challenge is getting restoration work down in the Chicagoland area at RV dealers.

Years ago, I had a bit of water coming in the front bedroom window. I was traveling out east and Sunline took my camper in and went over it from front to back for 2 days. To bad they missed the leak in the back of the trailer. Oh well, I will always love Sunline no matter what.

 

[JohnGB]

Hi John - I have a 2004 T2499 and I am the original owner. My trailer has over 100,000 miles on it. It is time for me to determine if I should restore it or sell it , not really an option. I LOVE my trailer. Anyway, mine took in water somewhere near the rear chair area. I had pulled that chair out and put my dog's crate in that space. After about 2-3 years, I notice the floor had rotted. Out came the crate, dog and the flooring was replaced back there. It took several tries before the leak was fixed and water stopped coming in.

Everything on my trailer is original and I believe that I should replace the roof and all the appliance shrouds that are on the roof. Also, I believe that I still have water coming in somewhere as my trailer has a musty smell in it between uses. It is more noticeable when air condition runs. This musty smell fades during use.
I want to put some money into the trailer to keep it in great shape. The challenge is getting restoration work down in the Chicagoland area at RV dealers.

Years ago, I had a bit of water coming in the front bedroom window. I was traveling out east and Sunline took my camper in and went over it from front to back for 2 days. To bad they missed the leak in the back of the trailer. Oh well, I will always love Sunline no matter what.

Hi DoubleH,

We started with a 2004 T2499, new at the time and Sunline was still in business. We later grew to the T310SR, same floor plan basically, just longer and with a slide. I really missed selling our T2499, but back then I really had no need for 2 campers. The wife loves the bigger camper and really not wanting to go camping in the smaller one. Now, times have changed and I have 3 project campers plus the T310SR...LOL I have a somewhat extreme retired hobby. Some folks do cars, some trucks, some boats or motorcycles. I do campers!

If you have the time, a place to work and have basic woodworking skills and tools, you can do this. Some folks have used a tarp to cover the camper, I use to do it too before the barn came. It does work, just more time consuming. When you take the roof off, you can chase the wet areas down the walls etc as far as needed. It increases the time of repair, but the end results are worth it. Hiring all the kind of work out that I am presenting can add up in cost quickly. It is not the materials as much as the labor. There is just a lot of hours in it.

This T2499 restoration thread is going to take more time then I think you have to complete your restoration. See this thread which is complete with a re-roof and front and rear wall damage repair, start to finish. Your T2499 will come apart and go back together very close to the same as this larger 2006 T264SR of my son's. This will give you a look at what this involves. http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f71/a-winter-project-roof-repair-picture-heavy-16834.html

If you want to now, check for where that leak is in your camper, here is a place to start. http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f71/moisture-meters-for-inspecting-a-camper-17613.html

We can help add other things on how to track down wet locations, but the moisture meter tells what we cannot see. If you want to pursue this, create a post on your camper and with pics show us what you found. Then we can help point you to where the leak source may be. Pics are king in these cases showing us what you are up against.

Hope this helps

John

 

[JohnGB]

Part 2, Roof Opening Continued

Now to get the gutter rail separated from the roof membrane. On rubber roofing, I have learned using heat, (warming) from a heat gun moving very often and not staying in one spot often helps soften and loosen the butyl tape from the rubber membrane. I started out using heat on the PVC to gutter rail and had different findings.

I started with heat, and an all edges dulled putty knife working it in between the gutter rail and the PVC. The butyl sealing tape softened the butyl as expected. So far from what I can see, the shop used a good quality make up of the butyl.

I worked off the short piece of gutter rail, which is an extension of the longest rail available for this length camper. I was surprised to not see butyl between the camper siding and the PVC membrane. After thinking about it, in this location, Sunline did not use butyl between the roof material and the siding at the gutter rail, as there was the budboard on the back of the rubber and sealing corrugate to siding is not a seal. This practice is different than the standard Dicor roofing recommendation, but it did work for Sunline. Roof remove 14 on Flickr

I continued moving down the long gutter rail with the heat gun, and it was work, a lot to get the gutter rail to separate from the PVC. The heat was activating the butyl tape to be sticky, which is what happens to it when warmed. I tried just pushing the putty knife into the joint cold, no heat and pulled reasonably hard on the rail. Amazingly the gutter rail broke free clean with no butyl residue stuck to the PVC at approx. 78 deg F. H’mm, that does not seem right. I wonder if they used the correct butyl formulation on this brand PVC. I kept going, and it went a lot easier just doing it cold.

You can see by the edge of the doorway the gray butyl stops and clean white PVC roofing starts and runs for about four feet. That was the start of doing the rail separating without heat.
Roof remove 16 on Flickr

I continued down the entire length of the camper working the putty knife in the rail joint cold until it came off. It was hit or miss with the gray butyl; some would stick to the roofing, most just released. The butyl bond to the roof membrane is not as robust as with the rubber roof or the limited TPO I have seen, again if the installer used the correct butyl for this brand PVC.

I could see a deep impression on the side of the roof membrane. The staples did not cut through, yet, but where noticeable you can see them.
See here
Roof remove 16 on Flickr

Roof remove 17 on Flickr

What you are seeing is leftover staples from the old Sunline roof not removed, as seen by the staples that are pounded over. Sunline stapled the siding to the camper. Those are the tight/flush staples up at the roofline. When the budboard roof was being installed, they would fold it over the edge of the wall of the camper and staple it to tack it in place until the gutter rails were in place. Bottom line, the new roof installers never pulled out the old staples.
Roof remove 20 on Flickr


As FYI here are some pics of the Sunline roof install during a re-roof project.

You can see when the gutter rail was removed, the butyl stayed bonded to the rubber. 2006 T264SR
Left rear - gutter rail wicking on Flickr

Here is another Sunline with the butyl stuck on the rubber, 2007 T286SR
Sunline side fold roof 2 on Flickr

And when you lift the roof after pulling the staples out, you can see the folded edge of the budboard and the staples for the siding only. All the budboard staples where removed, the holes are there but no staples.
Sunline side fold roof on Flickr

A concern when doing RV roof is, to blend the transition from the top of the new plywood to the siding. This concern did not appear to have been addressed. Sharp edges were exposed the full length of the camper. A sharp edge can work a hole in the membrane over time. Here the plywood is an exact 90-degree bend and a gap to the siding with the sharp siding edge exposed that the roof membrane folds over.
Roof remove 18 on Flickr

Roof remove 19 on Flickr

Roof remove 20 on Flickr

Roof remove 21 on Flickr

When doing a re-roof and adding plywood above the original Sunline roofline, you need to create a smooth surface blend from the top of the new plywood onto the siding and deal with filling the gap from the new plywood on the ends. Since the camper is 96” wide, wall to wall and the new plywood is 96” long and placed over an arched rafter, the roof plywood comes up short at the wall, about 1/8” to 1/4" of length on each side creating a gap.

At a minimum, one should sand a radius on the sharp edges on the plywood and the siding. Next is dealing with the gap.

I have done two different methods to fill the gap; all start with the using a belt sander and sanding off every sharp corner. Create an approx. 1/8” to 3/16” radius on the plywood edge.

Next is to fill the gap which needs something to help blend the gap and create some support for the membrane over this area. One method is filling the void with Dicor non-leveling caulk. The caulk fills the uneven gap along both long sides of the camper. See here. In these cases, one roof decking was 3/8 thick the other 3/16” thick.
00 dicro edge close up on Flickr

0 Dicro edge on Flickr

The Dicor worked well to fill the uneven void. However, it took time to cure and needed two applications to fill the total gap. This method requires at least 1 to 2 weeks of curing time, which can be a drawback in some cases.

The last method I created used butyl tape to fill the void and added extra sealing of the roof membrane to the camper wall. I cleaned the talc off the rubber (talc added by Dicor to reduce rubber sticking) in this area to not infect the butyl. With this approach, the gaps can be filled right after the roof membrane is applied if wanted and no downtime in the roof assembly. I usually wait until the next morning to allow the membrane glue to dry, however waiting it is not a must-do. As of now, this is my preferred method on creating a transition blend from the new plywood to the siding.
T2363 roof edge joint on Flickr

T2363 roof edge joint 2 on Flickr

You can see here, the butyl fills the entire uneven gap and hangs over the siding creating a seal for the rubber.
T2363 roof edge joint 3 on Flickr

When you fold the membrane over, I roll the membrane into the butyl. You do not want to overstuff the gap as that can create a hump at the edge of the roof. Filling it just enough allows a smooth water runoff off the roof.
T2363 roof edge joint 4 on Flickr

More in Part 3.

 

[JohnGB]

Part3, Roof Opening Continued

Continuing with the roof membrane removal, the rear molding and the left side molding needs to come up before I can fold over the wet spot on the right side.

Starting on the left side gutter rail, we see the same green dried up mold yuck as in the right side.
Roof LH 1 by John Barca, on Flickr

And the missing caulk on the roof membrane to gutter rail transition.
Roof LH 2 on Flickr

In case you cannot see the missing caulk, the red arrows are pointing the joint that needs to caulked from my perspective.
Roof LH 2A on Flickr

Folded back the left corner molding. Again, the butyl had a clean release from the membrane.
Roof LH 3 on Flickr

Water and dirt working it’s way down into this joint.
Roof LH 4 on Flickr

This picture shows what appears to be the lack of enough butyl tape on the molding. Not much material exits to seal off a screw leak or prevent water from getting behind the gutter rail. I fill the entire width of the gutter rail with butyl. Yes, it does use more material; however, on a restoration, my goal is making this as long-lasting, as it can be.
Roof LH 5 on Flickr

The rear roof wall seam is next. You lift up the rear wall molding. H’ mm this is different. There is a number of things I do not see that should be there. Again per the Sunline method and my thoughts. What looks missing?
Roof LH 6 on Flickr

Here is a close up
Roof LH 7 on Flickr

As a comparision, here is the Sunline method using budboard to do the rear wall cap molding.
Sunline rear seam on Flickr

Sunline did not fold the roof membrane over and down the back wall. They stopped the membrane at the end of the roof at the back wall. I believe they did it this way due to the budboard being so stiff it would not fold well on an arched curved fold and not wrinkle. Several of us who have repaired Sunline rubber roofs at the back wall have noticed, after many years of service when you lift the rear wall molding, the rubber membrane shrinks in length once the molding is released. I believe this comes from the sun damage on the rubber, causing it to shrink and once the molding is released, the membrane contracts and becomes shorter. Sunline did use butyl tape between the rear wall siding and the wood shims at the roofline as a seal. They also used putty tape between the outside of the back wall siding and the rear wall roof molding to prevent water from blowing up at that joint and into the roof system.

Some arrows to talk to what I found.
Roof LH 8 on Flickr

Red is gray butyl tape over the screw area.

Yellow is where there is no butyl tape to seal the membrane to the molding itself.

Green is where there is no butyl tape to seal the rear wall siding to the molding.

I did not see a seal at the rear wall other than whatever mechanical tightness is created at that joint between the molding and the rear wall. This creates a situation where heavy rain and wind blowing on the rear wall with no added sealant to protect the roof decking area from the outside environment

I take the Sunline approach a step further on a re-roof. Start with folding the new membrane back and cleaning the talc off of the rubber. Apply butyl tape to the rear wall siding.
T286SR rear roof seam on Flickr

Fold the new membrane over the new exposed butyl.
T286SR rear roof seam 2 on Flickr

I line the rear cap molding on top and down the back wall. All inside surfaces of the rear wall molding are lined the full width with butyl. Then install the molding. T286SR rear roof seam 3 on Flickr

I do the traditional Dicor self-leveling caulk on the roof area of the rear molding. And then after Dicor curing time, add Eternabond tape to seal all seams on the roof. After the Eternabond treatment, I seal the bottom exposed butyl edge on the rear wall molding with Dicor non-sag caulk.
2005 T2363 Ebond on Flickr

Here is an inside view of the rear wall molding. Something else is now appreant.
Roof LH 9 on Flickr

These pics show it better
Roof LH 10 on Flickr

Roof LH 11 on Flickr

What you are seeing is white leftover butyl from Sunline under the new gray butyl when the new PVC roof was installed. It appears the molding was only scraped to remove the old butyl, not chemically cleaned back to clean aluminum. The new gray butyl is making a seal to old contaminated butyl rather than clean aluminum. As standard practice, we chemically clean the molding back to clean aluminum to allow the butyl to bond solidly to that surface.

Something with the thickness of the butyl used, it appears to be very thin. When taking the gutter rail off, there is not very much butyl sealing the screw hole areas. It is like it is all squeeze out flat.
Roof LH 13 on Flickr

With the moldings off, I was able to peel back the PVC membrane from the plywood. Not sure if this glue is correct. However, the membrane peeled up rather easily. On EPDM when the glue bond is made with the correct quantity of glue per sq foot on plywood, the rubber really does not want to release. I’m not sure if this easy lifting on the PVC is the way it is supposed to be or not.
Roof LH 12 on Flickr

Now that the moldings are off, we can lift the PVC membrane on the right rear corner where the roof leak was.
Roof remove 22 on Flickr

RH wall off2] on Flickr

RH wall off3 on Flickr

Roof remove 23 on Flickr

RH wall off4 on Flickr

The leak has damaged the new roof plywood, the rafters, the top wall plate. And all that water went down the right side wall into the floor system. The roof leak was not the only leak in play on this right rear corner. Prior corner molding leaks, the window frame seal leaks also contributed to the substantial damage on this side of the camper.

In taking the gutter rail off the right side of the camper, I found this. What you are looking at are projections of something not right under the membrane pushing up. There is a rafter under this area. I will not know for sure what went wrong until I can lift this area. I saw they stapled the roof decking to the camper. I do not like that method on a camper roof, due to staples can back out easier then screws under vibration. The rafters they are stapling are 1/2” thick. What is more likely to pull out of 1/2” softwood, an 18 gage staple or a number 6 flat head construction screw?
Roof membrane projections on Flickr

Roof membrane projections 2 on Flickr

For those following along and may not know, when you have something projecting up under a roof membrane like this, it becomes a hot spot for wear. That point pressure will allow the material to poke through sooner there then it would otherwise. Anyone who puts down vinyl flooring knows of the same issue. Any dirt or leftover sawdust chip etc. on the glued surface before the floor is put down, that spot will wear through first. It generally ends up right in the high traffic walkway no less.

At this time, I have not lifted any more roofing. Time ran out on me, and other things are more pressing. The camper is backed into the storage barn with ventilation in it and drying out.

I do have some more to add and will after I hear back from Lasalle Bristol who makes the XTRM ply PVC roofing. The jury is still out on my end on the actual use of the PVC roofing material. I know there are always other ways to do things and if anyone sees what I’m doing has issues or a better way, please point it out. I’m glad to listen. I do not like some of the practices done on the new roof the install on this camper. Right now, odds are favorable I will re-roof the camper before finishing the restoration. I just do not feel good about what I have now to hold up as long as I want it too.

Thanks for looking.

John

 

[johnnybgood-SUN]

Thanks for all the great info and pictures John. Do you ever rest?

Interestingly, my 2000 T2370 didn’t have any sealant where the roof membrane meets the top of the gutter rail and I’m 99.9% sure the roof is original. One of the first jobs I did.

 

[J&A Lima Oh]

Me too on 2006 2499, how do we fix it?

 

[JohnGB]

Thanks for all the great info and pictures John. Do you ever rest?

Interestingly, my 2000 T2370 didn’t have any sealant where the roof membrane meets the top of the gutter rail and I’m 99.9% sure the roof is original. One of the first jobs I did.

H'mm, that is news. Thanks much for bringing it up.

Well I can say this, since at "least" Oct 2003 build dates until the end of the last 2007's, all the Sunlines I have worked on had the caulk at the gutter rail.

A burning question now is, when did Sunline realize the issue and what year/month did they start adding it?

While I guess they may have missed your 2000 T2370, missing something that big a deal was not like them. Especially back in year 2000 when things were going strong.

I need to now reach out to some of my buds with older campers and see if I can see what they have.

John, your Sunline camper before the 2000 T2753, what year and model was it and did it have the gutter rail caulk?

Thanks

John

PS. I have been on weight restriction the last week limiting my need to get stuff done outside duties. Typing time has been more available to catch up on my SOC habit... which is where the update have been coming from.

 

[JohnGB]

Me too on 2006 2499, how do we fix it?

Ah, I see you found this. GREAT!!! A lot of this will apply to your camper, well the process that is, I sure hope not the rot...

How to fix it, I'm not sure you want to wait until I get this particular project camper all fixed up to do yours.... The que is pretty full now... I now have 3 roof jobs just in waiting. But, I have a boat load of pics of many of the past ones completed not yet posted about to answer just about any question on yours.

If you get to the point of needing more info, start up a post and ask away. Nothing like someone needing info to kick start all the info getting pulled together.

 

[johnnybgood-SUN]

John, my previous Sunline was a 1996 T1700 and the gutter rail was sealed. Original roof.

 

[DoubleH-SUN]

Thanks John - Your links are very helpful and your posts in general are priceless!
What I'd really like to do is hire you for my restoration. Is that possible???

Kim

 

[Wannabes-SUN]

Wow, John, more awesome work! Thanks for the pixs and info - it is such a help in understanding how these trailers are put together.

 

[JohnGB]

Interestingly, my 2000 T2370 didn’t have any sealant where the roof membrane meets the top of the gutter rail and I’m 99.9% sure the roof is original. One of the first jobs I did.

John, my previous Sunline was a 1996 T1700 and the gutter rail was sealed. Original roof.

Hi John,

I did some digging from fellow forum members and here is a small sample.

Your 1996 T1700 had the gutter rail and was sealed.

A 1997 T2653 had the gutter rail and was sealed.

A 1998 T270SR had the gutter rail and was sealed.

Your 2000 T2370 appears to have the original roof, had the gutter rail and was "not" sealed.

A 2001 T2553 had the gutter rail and was sealed.

From the Nov 2003 mfg dates time frame forward on the many Sunlines I have seen, they were all caulked on the gutter rail.

Now to another brand in the same approx. time frame.

A 2000 Coachman had the gutter rail and was "not" sealed. This was an all one piece aluminum roof on my neighbors camper. A few pics from a year ago. His original caulk was shot. We both worked on it, scraped it all off, put new caulk on, let is cure and then Eternabonded all the seams. Amazing this 20 year one piece aluminum roof is still in very good condition as far as the roof membrane that is. But there was no caulk on the gutter rail. It must of been a practice across the industry pending the brand if they would caulk that joint. A few pics,

Totally gone caulk
Roof vent caulk on Flickr

Old Lap Sealant on Flickr

The gutter rail, NOTE: all the caulk has been removed in this pic on the main roof seam and roof vent, but the gutter rail had none to remove. You can see the staining of the aluminum on the main roof and clean where the old caulk was
Striping caulk 1 on Flickr

Striping caulk 2 on Flickr

All fixed up
Ebond Coachman on Flickr

So why did your 2000 T2370 not have any caulk? Good question. Unless we can get a bigger sampling from that approx. time frame, we may not be able to sort this out. Sunline may have been trying out something new with not caulking it for some unknown reason or they just plan goofed and yours was a one off miss? Good question.

It appears potentially by the Coachmen, other manufactures in the industry may have not caulked that joint. Maybe our 2 RV techs on the forum know if they have seen this and ideally what brands. The shop who did the re-roof on my T2499 project camper may have not known the need to caulk that joint. It for sure is a course of water infection if the butyl is not 100% perfect, and in this case, it was not.

Here is a gutter rail caulk issue on one of my good friends Jayco Eagle. This camper was 2 years old when the warranty claim went in. This was also the first year Jayco started using TPO roofing and it had the fleece backing. This was new to the industry and Jayco at the time. The gutter rail area was not sealed correctly and water wicked in badly with the fleece backing. The fleece backing I do not think is used anymore as it can wick so badly if a leak starts. The good news for my friend, Jayco stood behind it and fixed the damage at no cost. That was a major rebuild. Almost all of one side, the entire back wall, half way down the other side and a whole new roof had to be done. Amazing, this only took 2 years to get to this point.
Roof leak on Flickr

Good discussion. Thanks for bringing it up.

John

 

[JohnGB]

Thanks John - Your links are very helpful and your posts in general are priceless!
What I'd really like to do is hire you for my restoration. Is that possible???

Kim

Hi Kim,

Thanks for the good words and I'm humbled you asked for me to help fix your camper.

I'm a retired hobby extremists so to speak that sort of gets into this... Some folks restore old cars, some do trucks, some motorcycles and boats, I do campers!
Yes, some of us are enthusiastic about doing camper rot repair...

I am not an shop for hire. But we can help you with your camper here on the forum. We can give guidance if you can do the work, or help you with what to look for and expect, if you are looking for someone to hire do this. Just create a post for your camper and ask away.

I do help some friends and family restore their campers, they come and help and we work on it together. To create a charged cost for what I am showing, and doing on a restoration becomes close to impractical to pay for.

Here is sample of what I am talking about.

This thread documents my son's camper rot and re-roof in case you have not seen it http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f71/a-winter-project-roof-repair-picture-heavy-16834.html

That project had a front and rear wall water infection along with an all new roof. It took my son and I, 268 work hours between the 2 of us to do the project. And working weekends at the time, took 4 1/4 months elapsed time, plus materials.

I did 2 campers over this past winter, (I don't know what I was thinking...)

A 2007 T286SR which had a level of front and rear wall water damage, an all new roof and many other fixes. This project took 394 work hours between 2 guys and it took 5 elapsed months of time plus materials to complete the project.

A 2005 T2363 which had a lot of water damage in many places. 90% of the siding had to be removed, 98% of the lower band board all the way around the camper had to be replaced, part of the front floor, the front wall, the back wall, the left side fender area, plus rafter damage and an all new roof. This project took 632 work hours with 3 of us doing the project plus materials. It took 6 1/2 months elapsed time to do the project.

As you can see by the work hours alone, adding a charge rate that fits the skill and shop required at most any level for this kind of work, the cost is close to not practical on a 10 plus year old camper. These hobby things we do are a true labor of love.

We can help, just create a post and tell us what you know needs work and we can see what we can come up with to help guide you on what to do.

Thanks

John