2001 Sunline Solaris Electrical/Furnace Issues

[kaajot]

I spoke too soon and have been too busy to update. Luckily, have not been living in the RV the last 2 weeks.

It was a fluke. After the first burn either the control board or the valve broke. I thought maybe it was the Timing Delay Relay, and bought a new one as well as installed the new DSI. New DSI was incorrect and wouldn't make the clicking sound like the old one, so installed old and clicking (ignition) sound came back. So I'm 100% confident the DSI is good at this point. I've not replaced the burner, but it didn't look anything but old when I inspected it last month. I can always buy one and a new gasket.

One note, the DSI didn't have a gasket and I noted there should be one. I'll probably order one -- has operated the entire time I've owned it without a gasket.

So, I installed the new Time Delay Relay and it operates the same as with the old one (guess I have a spare part). The new one is the over-sized for a 24v system, so trying to figure out how to best mount it is kind of a challenge. I bent the bottom mounting points so they would not contact with the Furnace Vent Cover, but am open to a new, better solution for mounting position if anyone has encountered this before. I'll grab a picture later.

I bought a Limit Switch but realize we haven't made it to that point, so another spare part. It's the correct item on this one, so I'll hold onto it no matter what instead of lose the restocking fee and return shipping. $22 invested for future maintenance.

So, the new Dinosaur Robotics control board was just delivered and I'll try sliding that in shortly. I just pre-ordered a valve on Amazon, Atwood 31150 Side Outlet Valve Kit 12VDC, just in case the new control board does not fire. The wires are not broken, burned, or frayed for comms to the valve. If the kit works, I may just cancel the valve and save $42.

I think an RV shop probably would have charged $300+ parts, so I'm still ahead but only by $50 if I have to buy the valve. At least I know I can repair it now too though.

Will post an update about the Dinosaur Electronics control board as well as a picture for the new Time Delay Relay. I can always install the old one again for neatness, but would like to know what's the best method for the new Time Delay Relay.

 

[JohnGB]

It seems the hunt continues...

Looking forward to your report on the new control board and the pics on the timing relay.

Sending warm thoughts....

John

 

[kaajot]

New Time Delay Relay

Hi John-

No luck with the new control board. Same results, but it’s nice to look at and gives good indications when attempting to fire.

Pictures of the new components including the oversized time delay relay are attempting to be uploaded and attached to this post, but here’s the link to my google drive with the newest three photos.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-8Gq1mfpVlELU2T9-PPR8PIycXKojijp

So it looks like the valve is the issue? My burner just looked old but it’s sparking and I hear no audible movement in the valve letting gas out. Anything else I should try before the gas valve ships on the 26th? Continuity was good in the lines from the board to the valve and igniter is sparking with l three attempts.

Should I/will I need a new gasket if I change out the gas valve? I don’t have one of those on order. And my DSI was lacking it’s gasket the entire time — is it necessary?

Thanks and Merry Christmas from the camper!

-KJ

 

[JohnGB]

The gas valve should make a click/clunk when it fires. If you have it out on the bench you can hot wire it to test.

Make sure the ground wire in the valve is good. Lose of ground can be an issue too not allowing the valve to work.

I would use the gaskets. Long term they help.

Hope this helps

John

 

[kaajot]

John-

Well, the new gas valve is here but I’ve not installed it yet — do not have a new gasket yet.

I wish I’d tested the valve through a 12v source. I’ve tons of solar batteries. Assuming the valve had a bad wire going to it, couldn’t I shut off the propane in the camper and just directly add 12v power the same way I tested the motor? That perhaps would have been a good test to do several weeks ago!

Sorry, I’m new to testing a gas valve but if that’s all it takes and it does not need positive gas pressure behind it, seems way too easy to make happen.

I think the gas valve was the other loud noise with the sail switch when my furnace began to fail,, so it probably is seized in the closed position but verifying this early on would have put the new gas valve in my hands before a new control board and a few weeks earlier.

I feel like I’m 70-85% of the way to TS % diagnostics in furnace repair in RVs at this point. Is there a way to certify this knowledge? We have one RV shop in the entire county that’s backed up and they couldn’t even get me in to repair wind damage to my sunlights/vents, so I did it all myself and they’re working quite nicely with no leaks this Fall/Winter.

Hopefully my hot water heater isn’t as dirty, but if it needs a full tear down that’ll be another good skill to have in my toolkit.

Best.

-KJ

 

[JohnGB]

I wish I’d tested the valve through a 12v source. I’ve tons of solar batteries. Assuming the valve had a bad wire going to it, couldn’t I shut off the propane in the camper and just directly add 12v power the same way I tested the motor? That perhaps would have been a good test to do several weeks ago!

Sorry, I’m new to testing a gas valve but if that’s all it takes and it does not need positive gas pressure behind it, seems way too easy to make happen.

You can shut the LP gas off and test the valve in place to listen for a clunk or click or any noise from the valve.

You can let the control board try and fire the valve, but this you already did trying to run the furnace and you did not get gas flowing.

OR, "unplug" the gas valve wire from control board or at the valve itself and directly hot wire (apply + 12 VDC to) the valve in place. Just make sure you unplug the control board so do not back feed the board with power. This will also test the ground on the valve. If the direct hot wire power does not make the valve click etc, then add a good ground jumper wire too and that will confirm the ground wire is good or bad. If the ground makes the valve work then the ground was bad. But is the valve still does not work with a known good ground, then the valve could be bad.

You can do an ohm test across the valve + and - DC wire terminals. The hot wire has to be disconnected to not get a back feed from the PC board. According to PDF page 108 of the service manual I linked before, a good valve could have between 30 to 50 ohms. Your meter may be off a few ohms so do not worry about a 28 or a 52 ohm reading but a lot more or less is indication the valve coils have issues. Being a gas valve it has 2 solenoid coils/valves to make one complete valve.

If it comes up with infinite resistance, meaning an open circuit, then an internal wire in the valve coil could be broke. If it comes up with 0 to say 5 ohms then the valve coil could be shorted inside.

You do not have to worry about the lack of gas pressure to make the valve open or close. These are direct acting solenoid valve coils. They do not need incoming pilot pressure to make the valve open or close.

Hope this helps

John

PS. If you have the new gas valve, do an ohm test on it and compare the old one. That will take out any calibration issues with your meter. The new valve should have the correct ohms and what ever that number is the old one should be close to it if it is working right.

 

[kaajot]

Hey John, hope you’re well and still here.

I have been busy, just came back from Florida with a new-to-me F700 dump truck to help out at my farm. Repaired a generator and got to work installing a new gas valve in the furnace, but sadly did not bench test the old one with a hot wire. Now I’m wishing I had as everything else is working as advertised. I even wondered if the exciter was producing spark, so I pulled it out and ran the system outside. Initially it did not, but I scraped the connections clean of galvanization and offered bare metal which enabled it to fire every time after multiple runs. I checked continuity and resistance from the boards capacitor through the line to the exciter as well and all was good. Near the output of the spark I was receiving 3.5v reading and if I touched the positive rod it would ground the spark and read about 1.3v through the multimeter, so I believe the spark is sufficient enough to ignite the propane when arcing.

The problem I’m finding is that the new gas valve I installed (after I caught a gas leak, bubble checked and fixed the next day at the supply line into the gas valve) is it’s not making a clunky sound like I always heard before the furnace died.

I’m guessing my wiring may be bad, ground may be bad, or whatever relays the output to open the valve may be bad.

Any ideas here? Can I bench test the old one with a spare 12v battery to confirm it is a good valve also? Same with the new one installed? There are two negative connections and two positive, yes? Negatives go to a grounding point that I already consider poor and will probably have to change the wire connection there.

I’m eager to finish this and move on to the hot water heater since I’ll be living at the camper all Summer and would like to get the water system going next. I rebuilt the kitchen furnace ducting line, works great now! I’m rebuilding the bedroom duct tonight and that part of the furnace rehab will be done.

-KJ

 

[JohnGB]

Welcome back KJ. Good deal on the dump truck! Always handy.

The problem I’m finding is that the new gas valve I installed (after I caught a gas leak, bubble checked and fixed the next day at the supply line into the gas valve) is it’s not making a clunky sound like I always heard before the furnace died.

I’m guessing my wiring may be bad, ground may be bad, or whatever relays the output to open the valve may be bad.

Any ideas here? Can I bench test the old one with a spare 12v battery to confirm it is a good valve also? Same with the new one installed? There are two negative connections and two positive, yes? Negatives go to a grounding point that I already consider poor and will probably have to change the wire connection there.

Yes, you can hot wire a gas valve off of a 12 volt battery. At the gas valve,

Red is the DC + (hot wire)

Yellow is the DC - (ground)

Here is a similar one from one of my campers.

You need to hot wire both wires for the hot and ground at the same time to get both solenoids to fire at the same time. You can then feel it click/clunk out in the open.

Since they use case metal as the ground wire, the ground connections all have to be good or it will not work.

Hope this helps

John

 

[kaajot]

John-

Thanks, yeah I already thought I knew how to do it, so I was taking care of paperwork and before you knew it was 8 am at Starbucks so I didn't sleep. Grabbed coffee yesterday, went to take care of some things at my AirBnB in Sackets Harbor and headed out to the camper to try a theory. Bench-tested it and confirmed the old valve opened up just fine. So I operated under the assumption the NEW valve was also good, so I started testing its wires. I found no continuity issues, so I hot wired it and it worked too.

So at this point I'm looking at the control board wire to the gas valve and I pull the "old style" ribbon cable connector off which has the three primary, power in, power out to valve, ground. I shoot continuity AGAIN, and it's fine. I'm wondering what could be wrong with this wire that I backprobed on the board connector and decide to really peer at the connector and see if the wire is not making contact. I wind up pulling the red wire OUT of the connector to inspect its connection to the metal pin that goes inside the sleeve that fits on the computer board. It looks solid. I put it back in and look from the front. There's a little crud so I decide to take some electrical wire spray and clean it off at all contacts. A few minutes into this I realize one of the pins is not like the other two, and yes, it's the gas valve pin. Two pins have an ARCH pushing their metal surface above the plastic sleeve that slides onto the circuit board. The gas valve pin is pressed flat below the sleeve's plastic edging that holds the pin in place.

I'm pretty heated at this point and pull the circuit board contact pin out, bend the damn thing three times until it finally takes the intended shape, insert it back into the furnace, turn on the gas, turn on the electrical, and yeah... the furnace fires just fine and NO odd sounds whatsoever.

Attached is my bench test video from yesterday and my very long (16 minutes, not edited) lessons learned on the process of tearing this furnace apart.

Furnace Valve Bench Test/Hot Wire with 12v battery

Lessons Learned - Atwood Hydroflame Furnace Repair/Diagnostics and Gotchyas

 

[kaajot]

So, I'll begin this week with trying the water pump, hot water heater, and applying water to the camper for the first time since 2015 when there was a leak that shorted out the power control center. I've repaired that leak but will probably put some plastic to divert a water rupture just in case until I'm certain that specific plumbing above the power center does not rupture again (the plumbing is to the bathroom shower, worst placement ever as far as design and design flaws go -- would love to eventually move this to a cavity in the kitchen to the right of the sink so there are no pipes directly above, but that can be done some other day in the future).

I've turned on the water heater and pump for a few seconds at a time in the kitchen, so I believe the power goes to them (it illuminates and makes sounds at the control panel).

Any initial suggestions as I get ready to put water into the system from a big 275g IBC that I will place slightly elevated (hill) above the camper to gravity feed as a "shore" water source?

Also, should I start a thread in the repair section instead once I begin testing and figuring out any issues with the plumbing (more likely the water pump and even more likely the water heater?)

Thanks for bearing with me in the Travel Trailer forum.

 

[JohnGB]

Hi KJ,

You did good!! Yeh!

I have always said, you learn more when things do not work right! Now you know the in's and out's of how your furnace all works. Great!

On the water test, if you have the ability to a compressed air test, start with about 10 psi and test for leaks. If it holds then go up to 20, 30 psi. No need to go any more with just air. Do not use real high pressure like 60 psi and up etc. It is easier to clean up when you find and air leak then a water leak. Just start out with low pressure. You do not need a lot of volume or pressure, any little compressor will work. Even a charged air tank.

Yes, start a new thread on water system problems. It will be easier for other to find in the future.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks for posting back and good videos. Helps you and others who may find this in the future.

John

 

[kaajot]

Hi KJ,

You did good!! Yeh!

Yes, start a new thread on water system problems. It will be easier for other to find in the future.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks for posting back and good videos. Helps you and others who may find this in the future.

John

Thanks John!

Yeah, I have a pancake and a Husky 20 gal compressor -- don't think it's leaks to be worried about, but will try-- just need to find an attachment that will hook from the air hose up to the supply line outside the camper? I'm more concerned about the heater actually warming water/holding water and the pump moving water through the system. (pump will be an easy swap I reckon, it either works or doesn't)

About new thread --> In this Forum, or Maintenance Forum?

I'll continue asking about Hot Water Heater and System Pump when I start the new thread.

-KJ

 

[JohnGB]

just need to find an attachment that will hook from the air hose up to the supply line outside the camper

About new thread --> In this Forum, or Maintenance Forum?

On the compressed air fitting, go to the hardware store/lumber yard and look for a "garden hose thread" (3/4 male thread hose) adapter. It has hose thread on one end and either 3/4" NPT or 1/2" NPT on the other end. Looks like this one https://www.lowes.com/pd/B-K-3-4-in-Threaded-Male-Hose-x-MIP-Adapter-Fitting/1000504905

Then adapt that to whatever you need to connect it to your compressor. I created one that has the quick connect air hose male end on it. Just make sure you regulate down the pressure going in the camper.

Screw that fitting into the "city water" hose connection on the side of your camper. That taps into the main cold feed line in the camper. You can run the water system off of a campground hose hook up with that vrs using the onboard water tank and pump. I do not know which side it is on your floor plan, but it has one.

For your water pump etc. issues, create a post in the repairs and maintenance forum. It fits better there. Ideally do a separate post on the water heater and then one on the pump water system. The subject title and content makes it a little easier to search and find in the future and the topic discussion does not go so far astray.

Good luck!

John

 

[kaajot]

On the compressed air fitting, go to the hardware store/lumber yard and look for a "garden hose thread" (3/4 male thread hose) adapter. It has hose thread on one end and either 3/4" NPT or 1/2" NPT on the other end. Looks like this one https://www.lowes.com/pd/B-K-3-4-in-Threaded-Male-Hose-x-MIP-Adapter-Fitting/1000504905

Then adapt that to whatever you need to connect it to your compressor. I created one that has the quick connect air hose male end on it. Just make sure you regulate down the pressure going in the camper.

John-

Got it, found a lot of options ranging from $5- $25 at TSC (they had entire adapter kits, labeled RED colored (Industrial), BLUE colored (Automotive) and GREEN colored for ARB? I don't know what that means.

Have to find the keys to the water hookup on the port side of the trailer. Will make sure what size it is and start constructing a hook-up to my Porter Cable pancake compressor. Question is, will a water pressure regulator function for air to lower the maximum possible air pressure to 40-50 psi? I saw one at TSC and thought that might be a good idea. Also, since I'll be gravity feeding water in, is a water pressure regulator going to be necessary since I don't have a 100 foot drop or anything for the water. It will only have several feet to gain pressure at best.

-KJ

 

[Tinstaafl]

You don't need a pressure regulator to air-test your system, but you should have a pressure gauge. If you ask in the plumbing department at Lowe's or Home Depot, you may find that they already have (assembled from stock parts) the assembly you need. If not, they can help you put one together.

It's basically a pipe nipple (short length of pipe threaded at both ends) with a hose adapter, pressure gauge and a schrader valve like your tires have. Just like inflating a tire, you put enough air in to reach your target pressure--30-40 lbs would be plenty. Then let it sit for a half hour. If the pressure as indicated by the gauge doesn't drop during that time, you're golden.

Highly unlikely you'd need a PRV (Pressure Reducing Valve) for a gravity-fed water line such as you describe. However, if the camper's ever going to be hooked up to city water and/or a campground supply, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have one. Those sources can run 150 lbs or more.

 

[kaajot]

Yes, I understand/know most of that. Thanks for the time limit though. I've pressure tested my evap systems on my F-150.

So, does a water pressure regulator work on an air compressor though? I'm interested if the water pressure regulator would slow the flow of air to 40-50 psi.

I've a gauge on the tank, but yeah I need a gauge for the line to get a true reading.

 

[Tinstaafl]

So, does a water pressure regulator work on an air compressor though? I'm interested if the water pressure regulator would slow the flow of air to 40-50 psi.

I honestly don't know, though in theory it seems like it ought to.

But having one is irrelevant to the testing you want to do.

First, your pancake compressor already has a pressure regulator. You can simply crank that down to the desired pressure, and that's all you'll get out of the line.

However, constantly feeding a 40 lb supply of air to the system is not going to tell you if there are any leaks.

Imagine poking a pinhole in an inflated balloon. It will eventually go flat, right? But if you continue to blow fresh air into the inflation hole, that will replace whatever's leaking and the balloon won't go flat--so you might conclude there are no leaks.

Consider your plumbing network to be the balloon. You need to "inflate" it, then seal it off and see if it holds that pressure. If it does, there are no leaks.

FYI, the half hour time span I gave you was somewhat arbitrary. In construction work, we have to pressure-test a home's plumbing system. Code only requires that the inspector verifies that it will hold pressure for 15 minutes. I usually double that time just for my own peace of mind that there isn't an extremely slow leak.

 

[kaajot]

I honestly don't know, though in theory it seems like it ought to.

But having one is irrelevant to the testing you want to do.

First, your pancake compressor already has a pressure regulator. You can simply crank that down to the desired pressure, and that's all you'll get out of the line.

However, constantly feeding a 40 lb supply of air to the system is not going to tell you if there are any leaks.

Imagine poking a pinhole in an inflated balloon. It will eventually go flat, right? But if you continue to blow fresh air into the inflation hole, that will replace whatever's leaking and the balloon won't go flat--so you might conclude there are no leaks.

Consider your plumbing network to be the balloon. You need to "inflate" it, then seal it off and see if it holds that pressure. If it does, there are no leaks.

FYI, the half hour time span I gave you was somewhat arbitrary. In construction work, we have to pressure-test a home's plumbing system. Code only requires that the inspector verifies that it will hold pressure for 15 minutes. I usually double that time just for my own peace of mind that there isn't an extremely slow leak.

Yep, I know -- makes sense. I wonder if my spare water pressure pex gauge I bought while redoing the water heater inside the house this January can be fitted? Again, same idea just like the water regulator. I'm guessing they both will work!

 

[JohnGB]

John-

Got it, found a lot of options ranging from $5- $25 at TSC (they had entire adapter kits, labeled RED colored (Industrial), BLUE colored (Automotive) and GREEN colored for ARB? I don't know what that means.

Have to find the keys to the water hookup on the port side of the trailer. Will make sure what size it is and start constructing a hook-up to my Porter Cable pancake compressor. Question is, will a water pressure regulator function for air to lower the maximum possible air pressure to 40-50 psi? I saw one at TSC and thought that might be a good idea. Also, since I'll be gravity feeding water in, is a water pressure regulator going to be necessary since I don't have a 100 foot drop or anything for the water. It will only have several feet to gain pressure at best.

-KJ

You might be missing the "how to connect" on the air pressure.

Find the "city water" hose fitting on the side of the camper. It looks like this. It is a garden hose female end. That fitting ties into the fresh water piping.

This post talks about the check valve that is inside that fitting. DO NOT, press the little plunger in from the outside when there is pressure in the system. It will, blow the O ring right off the plunger. http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f71/fresh-water-inlet-valve-repair-11736.html

You are going to hook up your air hose to that fitting.

By your wording, it seemed like you were thinking you were going to add air pressure to the fresh tank gravity fill pipe which on many of the Sunlines is behind the little door that uses a CH751 key to open it. If that was your thought, no you do not put the air in there.

If you are having issues with getting a regulator, then see if you have an tire air inflator with a gage on it, get or make up something like this. It has hose thread on one end, and a tire schrader valve on the other end. Complete with check valve in the tire valve. https://www.amazon.com/Camco-36153-...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=81X3T1XF9E76ZAFXBVN0

By using the tire inflator you can see and limit the amount of air you add. Just like pumping up a tire, just in this case the camper is the tire. Since there are 2 check valves then in the city water line, one in the camper and the one in the shrader valve, once inflated you may not be able to check the pressure as the 2 checks may seal off. BUT, you can "listen" for leaks, and after enough time, burp the faucet, listen for the strength of the blast, wait some more try again. If you have a leak, the blast will be much weaker the 2nd burp with enough time between burps. Be creative!

This is what I mean with the tire inflator.

If you are thinking of using one of those RV water regulators that look like this to control air pressure, it is not going to work. They are more of a water restrictor then a regulator. Looks like this or similar. You can generally see right through the center of it.

Hope this helps

John