Sunline Owner - New to Sunline Club

[dkatz]

Hello,

My husband and I own a 2007 T-257SR Sunline Solaris. We are in our second season of camping using this trailer and we absolutely love our Sunny. So much so that my husband did a full restoration replacing the soft roof with 1/4 inch plywood and 50 mm TPO roofing material. It was not an easy task but totally worth the effort in hoping to keep our Sunline going strong.

Although we are faced with a new challenge of having a leak under the bathroom toilet, we hope to gain insight from the forums on how best to tackle this challenge as well as learning new things about owning a Sunline.

We are both happy to be part of the Sunline Club and hope to gain a lot of insight from other Sunline owners and to also share our experiences and know how as well.

Thank you and happy camping!

Dyan

[JohnB]

Welcome Dyan!

Yes, we, too, get attached to our Sunline and love it.

On your toilet, if yours is the original, it would be a Dometic Sealand China bowl toilet model 210. I have rebuilt several of them, and most of the repair parts are still available on that model.

Can you explain more about the leak? Or post pics of where you see the water puddling on the floor and show the area of the toilet. We can give you some things to look if we can see where the water is coming from.

I think this post may also help. Your 210 model will have the same basic setup, and many parts are interchangeable between the 110 and the 210 https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...0-a-19908.html

I hope this helps.

John

[dkatz]

Hi John,

Thank you very much for sharing this post regarding toilet repairs. This will definitely come in handy once we repair the damaged floor due to the toilet leak.

In answer to your question, the water seems to puddle off to the right of the toilet which happens to be where the floor is now very soft and spongy. My husband is planning on repairing the floor this fall and would love advice how best to approach this project. Our Sunline design has the bathroom between the bedroom (to the front - tow hitch) and the dinette/sofa space. Our kitchenette is at the back, very functional.

We are struggling with how to best approach this repair, from inside or from underneath the camper. We just want to minimize the impact to other parts of the trailer while we repair the floor. Thankfully my husband is extremely handy, but we know any advice from those who may have already tackled this issue would be a great benefit to our project.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. If photos are needed to demonstrate the location/layout, I'd be happy to send them along.

Thank you,
Dyan

[JohnB]

Hi Dyan,

First off, you are welcome. We are glad to help as we can.

Trying to clarify your description, you said

In answer to your question, the water seems to puddle off to the right of the toilet which happens to be where the floor is now very soft and spongy.

Sorry, I can't tell which orientation you describe as the right of the toilet. Is the right side when you are in the bathroom facing the toilet, or are you sitting on the toilet and the puddle on your right?

Let's make this easier by not having to define which way right or left is, as it changes depending on how you view it. Instead, let's consider how the puddling relates to the foot flush pedal side. Is it case number 1, 2, or 3 below?

1. The puddle seems to be forming on the foot flush pedal side of the toilet.

Or

2. The puddle seems to be forming on the non-foot pedal side.

Or

3. The puddle seems to be forming on the back side of the toilet (the seat hinge area).

Here is a picture of a 2007 T-2499 (one of my project campers) with a pass-through bathroom and a model 210 toilet. Your pass-through bathroom layout is similar; the shower is on the other side of the camper.



Knowing which side of the toilet is puddling, I can give some possible ways I have seen these toilets leak over the years when parts start to wear.

Now, for a few big-picture things for your repair, we can drill into the fine details later.

The first is to determine how far the water damage has spread and if it crosses under a wall in the camper. You can feel the softness as a start and tell us that, of better, take a picture and draw a red line or something on the image to try and be close to scale how large the soft spot is. This helps how to deal with the repair.

Second, if you have access to a moisture meter, you can scan the vinyl floor from the top down and sort out where the floor is dry, and then the wetness starts before you even take up the floor. Please take a look at this post for a meter that I use. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...per-17613.html

Lowes used to sell this model but has since discontinued it. Amazon still sells it. You don't have to get that brand, but I have created a table showing what the % moisture number means. These % numbers may mean different things by other brands. See this PDF you can download from our files section https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/d...o=file&id=5638

I don't know the size of your soft spot, but I will use these recommendations as a starting point.

In this case, the repair should be done from the top down. You remove the toilet completely from the bathroom and unscrew the toilet floor flange. Then, surgically cut and lift the vinyl floor tile and deal with the water-damaged OSB floor, floor joists, and wet insulation between the joists.

The black tank is directly below the toilet; ideally, you do not have to—or want to—drop it from the camper to repair the floor from the bottom up. The OSB board is fastened down from the top, not the bottom.

When you open the floor from the top down, you can see the 2 x 3-floor joists and fiberglass insulation deal with both of them from the top if they have any damage, and you do not have to deal with the black tank.

If you find some of your OSB floor board where the moisture meter finds medium to high wetness, but the board is still solid, that area can be dried out and treated with a resin sealer to help ward off dry rot.

OSB flooring that is comprised (soft) you cut out and install new in that area only. You will need to add an extra 2 x 3 supports at the cut splices in the floor joist area so the OSB will not flex when you step on the joint later on.

If you want to save the vinyl floor covering, you can. I have done this before, being creative in trimming and cutting the edges at the wall and leaving one side intact for the next room so there was no splice plate between the bathroom and the hallway leading up to it. Or you can make a straight cut at the doorway and use a slice plate between the two rooms. How the vinyl is dealt with also comes back to your likes, etc. If you want a different pattern, you clean up the old vinyl at the room edges and replace them with new ones.

This reply may help with how the floor is made and how I did this floor repair for a friend. In this case, it is a slide camper whose slide was not adjusted correctly, and water flying up off the tires towing in the rain took out the floor. Your floor is made using the same basic principles. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...tml#post159555

The above should help you start thinking about how to do this repair. I can discuss it in more detail or be a sounding board if you describe how you want to do it.

I hope this helps.

John

[dkatz]

Hi John,

Thank you for all that helpful information. To clarify for other Sunline club members, the puddling was on the right side of the toilet as you are looking at it. Upon inspection, the flange has a crack where the johnny bolts attached causing a heaving effect, which lead to the leak, so we believe. I will refer to your earlier post when we my husband starts the toilet repair. For now, the focus is on the damaged floor. "Oh, the fun".

As for the floor, my eager husband has already dropped the black tank to see how far the leak has spread. We believe the leak has stopped at the wall edge but again, this is what he can see from underneath. He guessed it is approximately a 1' x 1' wide area. We see some white powdery looking substance on the wood and we're not sure if that is an intentional coating or mildew that may have formed due to the dampness.

Our hope is to cut out the OSB and replace it with 3/4" plywood, either marine grade or CDX. He was contemplating replacing the 2 x 3 joist but 'm curious if it best to leave those boards in place and adding additional 2/3 boards to increase stability of the flooring.

Please let me know if this approach is advisable as I know you said that working from the top down is the most effective approach. He is a very handy guy but I just want to make sure we're doing the repair the right way. I have to say, he did an excellent job replacing the roof and he took his time and used all the right materials. If any members need assistance taking on that job, he would be a good resource.

Any help or guidance is appreciated.

Best,
Dyan

[JohnB]

Hi Dyan,

I have too many irons in the fire this week; sorry for getting back to you late. I will give you some pointers here and return later with more.

Originally Posted by dkatz

As for the floor, my eager husband has already dropped the black tank to see how far the leak has spread. We believe the leak has stopped at the wall edge but again, this is what he can see from underneath. He guessed it is approximately a 1' x 1' wide area. We see some white powdery looking substance on the wood and we're not sure if that is an intentional coating or mildew that may have formed due to the dampness.

Our hope is to cut out the OSB and replace it with 3/4" plywood, either marine grade or CDX. He was contemplating replacing the 2 x 3 joist but 'm curious if it best to leave those boards in place and adding additional 2/3 boards to increase stability of the flooring.

I have seen the white powder stuff before. It shows up on the bottom sides of the OSB flooring that has been in a wet area for a long time. See this picture of what I found. The long strips are not the white stuff; they are dried-up glue from Sunline, which glued the floor deck to the floor joists.



In my case, I cut the whole piece of flooring out as there were other issues with that large piece of wood. So I replaced it, again in my situation.

If yours is in an area where cutting it out is a problem, I will stay with this. If the wood is mechanically sound, poke it with an ice pick, etc, and it should be rock hard. If the wood is deteriorating, then replace it. If the wood is sound, then scrape the white stuff off and let it dry out again. I use the moisture meter to tell how the drying is progressing and treat the surface with an epoxy called S1. The S1 will seal the wood and help prevent the formation of dry rot in the future.

See this post for more on the resin treatment and S1. You have to use an organic vapor respirator when using this product. The Rot Dr. sells a Moldex respirator that comes with the correct cartridges. Also, use a face shield if you are working overhead, along with glasses.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...ent-20029.html

Regarding the flooring topic, You said you would replace the flooring with 3/4" plywood, marine board, or CDX. I'm not sure you have to go to the Marine board. Buying a 4 x 8 sheet just to do that patch is costly. And if you think about it, even if you went with the marine board, if you get water back down in the basement, the wet fiberglass insulation is a problem, and the rest of the SPF floor joists are also. I suggest spending the money on sound repairs, like the resin treatment on any water-stained sound wood on the floor.

CDX is an option, but I would suggest a BCX or ABX grade is better. Yes, you want the X grade for the better glue, but the C surface is rough and can have larger than wanted gaps in the C surface. Going to a B or A top surface (go A top surface if the cost is not obnoxious) so the A or B surface will be against the floor tile will give you better support not to have a tile crack into a pock hole of the CDX.

The 3/4" thick, remember this is a camper, not a house floor. The need is to match the top surface of the old floor with the new patch to create a dead smooth transition at the joint between new and old. The original floor was a nominal 1/2" or 5/8" and not a true 1/2", more like 1/32" under. Then, there is water swelling in the OSB. Whatever it originally was, the old OSB will be swelled even where there is sound wood. This is a problem to work through as that joint has to be dead smooth on the floor so the vinyl will not crack over time when walking over the joint.

See this post where I was splicing new plywood to the old OSB. I had to shim the plywood to compensate for the OSB swelling and sand the joint to make it dead smooth. This will drop you into the middle of a lengthy restoration post talking about the floor, https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...tml#post151035

There is also more on the wet floor and white growth earlier in that post.

I'm not sure you can repair everything from the bottom up. You have to screw down the new decking patch to the top of the floor joists, and you have to deal with the patch joint to the old OSB from the top.

I will take pics today of a blade I use in a vibrating multi-tool to cut the vinyl tile dead flush with the wall so you can lift up the vinyl and put it back down. I will get back on this.

Replacing the entire floor joist: I'm not sure you want to attempt the whole floor joist the way the camper is built, but if you really want to, I can explain how to do this. I suggest this approach: cut out any section of rot in the floor joist. If there is a water-stained joist that is still ice pick hard sound wood, then S1 resin treat the floor joist.

If you cut out a foot or so of joist due to rot, then sister in a new 2 x 3 next to it and screw on the new sister board to the sides of the good existing joist.

Sort of like this, sistering good wood next to old wood. In this case, the ends of the floor joists were rotted. I cut the rot out, S1 treated the old joists, and sistered new wood to create sound joist ends.


Be back later with more, got to go now.

I hope this helps

John

[JohnB]

Hi Dyan,

I am passing this along to try and help on how I cut carpet and floor vinyl out of a room. When Sunline made the campers, any carpet or floor vinyl was installed on the prebuilt floor deck assembly before the walls were added. The vinyl or carpet was the full width of the floor deck in most cases, again pending the floor plan. The walls were then set on top of the carpet/vinyl and screwed down the deck. This was for speed of assembly and to clamp the carpet/vinyl in place. Yes, the carpet and vinyl are sandwiched between the top of the floor decking and the wall assembly sitting on top.

The vinyl is not glued to the floor; the walls hold it in place. Over time, the vinyl will shrink slightly.

When you come to a repair and have to lift up the carpet or vinyl, it is not practical to lift the walls or take the cabinets apart to deal with the floor deck. So you end up cutting the carpet or vinyl flush with the walls and or cabinets. Pending the situation, you may leave a doorway still attached to the next room so you do not have to deal with a splice plate later when you put the vinyl back down.

Here's the bath floor of a 2005 T2363 with a toilet supply hose water leak. I surgically cut the vinyl at the walls and cabinets and then folded the piece up at the doorway so as not to cut the doorway area.


The doorway vinyl was not cut, but the short wall leading up to the doorway was so the vinyl would hinge up, so to speak, and still be attached.

The OSB had high moisture readings but was still ice-pick hard and mechanically sound. I dried it out and confirmed dry enough
by the moisture meter as I could not feel it by touch. Then S1 treated the entire floor.

Then, I folded the vinyl back down and used 3/8" quarter-round bare molding that I stained and varnished to match the cabinets. Here you can see the perimeter molding; I had to change the bathtub drain fitting also. The doorway where my knee is is still all one piece.


Another pic of the floor molding


I'll be back later to show the tool blade I used to cut out the vinyl. You can use a drywall utility knife, but the multitool oscillating tool blade works really well.

I hope this helps

John

[dkatz]

Hi John,

Thank you for all your helpful suggestion and professional guidance. My husband is going is going to tackle this project as recommended approaching it from the top down. He's cutting out the vinyl now hoping to peel it back in attempts to keeping in attached at the doorway threshold like you had done in one of your repairs. The construction is quite tight, which is one of the reasons why I like the Sunlines, but repairs have to be done methodically as you already know. Moisture meter is on its way from Amazon so we'll be sure to test the moisture of the remaining lumber before the repair is finalized. Hopefully my husband will take some photos so that we can share them on this platform. Wish us luck! And thank you bunches.

[dkatz]

Hey John,

Quick question. Does the flange get mounted to the wood flooring or on top of the vinyl? Ours had a crack so we purchased a new one and in looking at the photos you sent in one of the posts you shared, it looks like it is mounted directly to the wood. Let me know when you have a chance.

Thank you,
Dyan

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by dkatz

Hey John,

Quick question. Does the flange get mounted to the wood flooring or on top of the vinyl? Ours had a crack so we purchased a new one and in looking at the photos you sent in one of the posts you shared, it looks like it is mounted directly to the wood. Let me know when you have a chance.

Thank you,
Dyan

Hi Dyan,

All of the Sunlines I have had apart, they mounted the toilet floor flange "on top" of the vinyl flooring. Since no glue holds the vinyl to the floor, the toilet floor flange will clamp it to the floor so it does not curl up.

Yours, being a 2007, should be made that way.

I have seen where the factory got a little carried away in cutting the vinyl, and the vinyl hole was more prominent on one side of the hole than the floor flange, and the vinyl did curl up on that one unclamped side.

The vinyl does shrink over time. When you cut yours out to lift it, it will never return to the "exact" fit where you cut it out. It is pre-stressed now from years of sun exposure, and I suspect it will shrink about 1/32" to 1/16" in a room as small as the bath. You will see this at the wall perimeter. The 3/8" quarter-round molding will cover it with no problem.

I hope this helps.

John

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by dkatz

Hi John,

Thank you for all your helpful suggestion and professional guidance. My husband is going is going to tackle this project as recommended approaching it from the top down. He's cutting out the vinyl now hoping to peel it back in attempts to keeping in attached at the doorway threshold like you had done in one of your repairs. The construction is quite tight, which is one of the reasons why I like the Sunlines, but repairs have to be done methodically as you already know. Moisture meter is on its way from Amazon so we'll be sure to test the moisture of the remaining lumber before the repair is finalized. Hopefully my husband will take some photos so that we can share them on this platform. Wish us luck! And thank you bunches.

You are very welcome and thanks for the good words. We are glad to help here at Sunline Owners Club.

In case you did not see this, this link will take you to a PDF in our FILES section on how to interpret the wetness percent scale of the General Instruments moisture meter in "wall" mode. See page 2 for the chart on the wetness scale. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/d...o=file&id=5638

And the best of luck with this. Your husband will do great work, and if he redid the roof, this will be a lot easier.

And yes, please consider posting pics of the process. We "all" learn something from each other.

John

[JohnB]

Hi Dyan,

Your husband may be past this already in your bathroom, but I will post it in case it is needed for the future and others following along.

Doing floor repairs or even wanting to change the carpet or floor vinyl can be a job cutting out the old material.

Cutting carpet is sort of the worst, as it is hard to do, and the jute carpet backing seems to want to dull your knife quickly. A standard drywall cutting knife/utility knife or a carpet knife does work. Changing the blades when it gets harder also helps. You may run into fine wire staples on the carpet on non-wall carpet joints. Sunline would fold over the carpet to make a soft joint transition from carpet to vinyl flooring. At the joint, they would start with the top surface down to the floor and shoot what seems like a million tiny staples into the carpet to the floor to hold it down well and firm. Then, fold it over, and it creates this soft carpet joint. See our 2004 T310SR for the long carpet joint to vinyl. This pic was soon after we bought the camper and before all the dear wife upgrades.


I suggest starting at the wall first to get that carpet off that joint so you can get a loose piece of carpet to fold it back over. Then, use a semi-wide flat-edge pry bar to slide under the stapled carpet and start pulling the carpet and prying it up. Some of these staples will come out with the carpet, and others will stay stuck in the floor, and you have to go back and pull them out with pliers.

Next is cutting the vinyl flooring out. You can use the same drywall knife here also as the carpet, as the vinyl cuts a lot easier. Here, you will find a vinyl bulb of trim we call a welt bead at the joint between the floor and the wall on the newer campers. The oldies in the 70's and 80's may not have the welt bead.

You can see the tan welt bead in this pic between the floor and the shower step wall.


The welt bead is a cosmetic trim piece covering the crack between the wall and floor. As the camper ages or is built, that crack can make it look bad, again, from a cosmetic standpoint. Higher-quality campers have this welt bead, as caulk in a camper can crack quickly from flexing.

When you cut out the vinyl, I find cutting out the welt bead flush to the wall is more manageable. You do not have to cut it out, but leaving it in place will make it hard to create a good-looking transition from the new flooring to putting the old flooring back down. Or to put new molding down to hold the new flooring.

I found a tool that quickly cuts out carpet and floor vinyl: a cutting blade that fits in a vibrating multi-tool.

Imperial Blade first made these.




The Imperial part number


Milwaukee Tool bought Imperial Blade and now sells these blades under the Milwaukee brand. See here https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produc...ies/49-25-2221

Home Depot is one place to buy them. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauke.../a-_-n/a-_-n/a

Both brands are available, although it seems harder now to find the Imperial Blade version.

If you use this blade, be cautious. It is sharp and will cut you very quickly. Wear suitable gloves when you use it with the vibrating tool.

When using the blade on a wall to cut carpet or vinyl, I usually use the plunge straight-down cutting method. Yes, I only cit about 2" at once at a time, but I can control it and not mark up the wallboard. You must be careful and tip the blade slightly away from the wall so as not to mark the wall. My multitool has variable speed, and low speed helps.

Out in the open, cutting a long run of carpet is like a hot knife through butter with a sharp blade. The blade is sharpened to use one edge to pull to cut and the other to push to cut.

If you hit many of those fine wire staples with this blade, it will dull the blade.

I hope this helps and ask away any questions.

John

[dkatz]

Good morning John,

Thank you for responding to what seems like my endless questions. Confirming that the flange goes on top on the vinyl to secure the flooring in place. We left the bead trim in place because it looks so secure that we thought removing it would cause more damage. My husband wants to glue the floor down but I'm advising him not too because everything I read said the floor should remain floating to expand and contract. Do you have any viable solutions on how to secure the floor without adding the wood trim because it may look a little clunky.

Also, should we use a 50/50 water bleach solution to clean the backside of the vinyl because it is dirty and has small rotten wood pieces stuck to it. We just want to give it a cleaning before it gets laid back down. He is also going to use this bleach solution for treating the wood from underneath the trailer to remove the white mold that formed due to the moisture buildup. Is this something you would advise.

In regard to he S-1 sealer that you recommended, should we apply that to the wood on both the underside of the trailer (since my husband removed the tank) and also on the wood from the inside where the vinyl will be laid? We also don't know where to buy that product. He is checking our local hardware store now.

And lastly, do you have any suggestions on how best to reseal the black plastic that runs along the whole length of the trailer. He dropped the black tank.

Thanks again John. Unlike me, my husband approaches things rather quickly whereas I like to do research, as you can see, beforehand.

Dyan

[JohnB]

Hi Dyan,

Comments in blue below.

Originally Posted by dkatz

Good morning John,

Thank you for responding to what seems like my endless questions. Confirming that the flange goes on top on the vinyl to secure the flooring in place. We left the bead trim in place because it looks so secure that we thought removing it would cause more damage. My husband wants to glue the floor down but I'm advising him not too because everything I read said the floor should remain floating to expand and contract. Do you have any viable solutions on how to secure the floor without adding the wood trim because it may look a little clunky.

Yes, the floor vinyl expands and contracts with temperature changes. If you add some of the newer vinyl, which is thicker, softer, and has multiple layers, I have found that vinyl will buckle up in high-heat situations if there is no gap at the wall for this type of vinyl to expand. When installing this type of new vinyl, you must leave room for thermal expansion. The molding allows the vinyl to grow and covers the approximate 1/8" gap at the entire permitter.

In your case, if you reuse the old vinyl, that vinyl is thinner and more dense and not as soft. It will hold up better in the long term as it is more abuse-proof when dropping something on it and not tearing or creating a rip from the dropped object. The thinner Sunline vinyl is a single layer that is more abuse-proof when something is dropped. It also does not seem to have as large of an expansion issue.

As to how to secure the flooring without using any molding, the only suggestion I can give is one that I know of but personally never tried. A dealer changed the vinyl flooring in one of my friend's campers, which I repaired from water damage. This was the new thicker multi-layer vinyl. They used double-sided foam tape around the bathroom's perimeter and caulked the edge so water would not get under it.

My reluctance to use double-sided tape is to find one that will bond to somewhat rough OSB plywood. They make all kinds of tapes, but you have to find the correct one for the application. If you decide to go this route, I suggest calling 3M adhesives division customer service and asking which tapes will bond to both OSB and floor vinyl. I have called them on other topics, and they were helpful.

The molding being clunky, this is a personal choice. The 3/8 quarter round that I used with no welt bead in place worked out well, and you did not hit it with your foot. I used a pneumatic brad nailer and a set punch to drop the brad below the surface to fill it with plastic wood later and then touch up the varnish. I pre-stained and varnished the molding before installing it. Again, this is my personal choice; you do not have to use the molding method.



Also, should we use a 50/50 water bleach solution to clean the backside of the vinyl because it is dirty and has small rotten wood pieces stuck to it. We just want to give it a cleaning before it gets laid back down. He is also going to use this bleach solution for treating the wood from underneath the trailer to remove the white mold that formed due to the moisture buildup. Is this something you would advise.

The 50/50 bleach will work and kill the mold. However, I have used a 3 parts water to 1 part bleach ratio, and it also works well and is not so strong.

I also have used this product on molded wood and carpet backing. Concrobium is the name of it. Here is a link to Home Depot selling it. I can't seem to get the manufacturer's website to load tonight. They sell in quarts and gallons. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Concrobi...6CAL/310228466

If you use it and spray it, try not to get it on varnished surfaces. It leaves a very stuck-on film that dulls the varnish, but the sprayers work well on open wood, carpet, etc. Use a brush to apply close to varnished wood.



In regard to he S-1 sealer that you recommended, should we apply that to the wood on both the underside of the trailer (since my husband removed the tank) and also on the wood from the inside where the vinyl will be laid? We also don't know where to buy that product. He is checking our local hardware store now.
Yes, I would S1 treat both top and bottom and any water-stained floor joists.

I buy it directly from the Rot Doctor website. https://www.rotdoctor.com/products/p...tratingepoxies

If you are doing this overhead, I can't stress enough about a full face shield and organic vapor respirator. The stuff is going to stink badly, but in about 3 days, the smell goes away. The product is consistent with diesel fuel; it is thin and runs as it has to be thin to penetrate the wood. You put many coats on. If there are any splashes on the wallboard, wipe it off ASAP. The best way to protect the wallboard is with a piece of cardboard or tarp, etc., as a splash guard; you can move it as you go. Also, do not use petroleum-based products for cleaning the wallboard; it will strip off any color or design, leaving you with a very white wall and no design.



And lastly, do you have any suggestions on how best to reseal the black plastic that runs along the whole length of the trailer. He dropped the black tank.

Yes, I have done this a lot. I will send a separate reply tomorrow as there are a few approaches depending on how the black plastic Darco is torn up.

Thanks again John. Unlike me, my husband approaches things rather quickly whereas I like to do research, as you can see, beforehand.

Dyan

You are very welcome. And don't be afraid to ask any questions or clarifications. There are no dumb questions here on Sunline Owners Club, just questions you need help with.

John

[JohnB]

Dyan,

In addition to my comments on using double-sided tape to hold down floor vinyl, it came back to me (sorry, senior moment) on my call to 3M tech support about using the tape on bare wood.

In my situation, I was installing a new shower surround in my 2004 T1950 project camper. We had to rebuild all the walls from prior water damage, so I installed new bare luan plywood as the wallboard. While Sunline back in 2003 used 100% glue coverage to install the shower surround, the new RV shower surrounds are made differently as they have ribs on the back side and not large smooth surfaces. I called DuoTherm, who molds/makes the shower surrounds, and they told me the installers use double-sided foam tape to install their surround. I asked what brand and type of tape should be used, and the tech person at DuoTherm stated they do not spec the tape as each install can be to different substrates and pointed me to 3M.

Now, recalling their 3M conversation, the tech support stated tape would bond to the ABS plastic surround OK but not the bare wood as it was porous, and their adhesives have issues on porous surfaces. He told me that painting or priming the walls with good quality paint, even latex paint, would seal the wood, and then there would be no issues.

Treating the floor with the S1 epoxy will seal the wood and make a suitable base for double-sided tape to bond to it. It totally seals the surface and makes it hard. Now, for what tape will bond to the floor vinyl and be in a bath-damp area of a camper that can be stored in freezing temps in the winter and get hot to 100F in the summer, I suggest calling 3M on what tape will be the best to work in that application. They may be looking at one of their exterior-rated tapes used in automotive, etc.

If you go the tape route and call 3M, please report back on the conversation.

I hope this helps.

John

[JohnB]

Dyan,

I am getting back to you about how to repair the black plastic membrane (the manufacturer is Darco) under the camper.

I use Flex Mend underbelly repair tape, which is made specifically to repair tears or seams in the Darco membrane.

I buy it in 4" and 6" wide rolls. The 4" will do most repairs under the camper. I use the 6 " on the back and front walls during restoration work when I have many staple holes in the Dacro, which is folded up at the bottom of the walls. Here are some pictures of what it looks like. The tape is thin but very strong and permanent when applied correctly.



Here, I am applying it to the bottom of a slide-room floor repair.




You can buy Flex Mend at places that sell repair materials for manufactured homes. They use it to fix tears in the plastic underbelly of the house. Amazon also sells it; I have bought almost all of the Flex Mend products I use from Amazon, as it is easier in my area.

A few links, 4" x 108 ft. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...rch_asin_title

4" x 180 ft. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...rch_asin_title

6" wide x 108 ft. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...rch_asin_title


How to apply the Flex Mend: This is how I do it; it does not come with instructions.

1. The process of applying it starts first with cleaning the surface you will tape. Wash off any dirt; use soap and water if needed, and get any grease/oil off the surface you will apply the tape. I sometimes use Naphtha or mineral spirits to clean heavy, soiled, or greasy areas. Once the membrane has dried, follow up with some denatured alcohol as a final wipe to remove any film of any cleaner.

2. Unroll the length you need to cover over the slit in the Darco with some extra material to go beyond the end of the slit. Cut the length required so you do not have to hold the hole roll while installing the tape.

3. Test fit the cut length over the slit before taking the release paper off on the back of the tape. Uncurl the tape as needed so it will lay flat on the surface.

4. Start removing the release paper, but only 1 to 2" of paper at your starting end. Peel back only small sections of release paper at a time; otherwise, if this tape gets away from you, it will all ball up into a mess.

5. Center the tape over the slit and lightly press the start of the tape to one side of the tear to only tack it in place. Pull the tape straight to ensure the length is straight in the direction you want to go. Then, tack down the other side of the tape over the tear. Now that both sides of the tear area are covered, the tape direction should be pointing down the center of the torn section. Press as firmly as possible to ensure all the first 1 to 2" of tape is pressed to the Darco. You may have to put your hand inside the tear and on the top of the tear to help push the tape firmly to your hand, as there is no support in the large openings between the floor joists.

6. Slowly peel off a few more inches of release paper, 4 to 6", and firmly press the entire surface of the tape to the Darco. Keep doing this in short, small sections and make any slight changes in the tape direction to cover down the center of the tear slit until all the tape is applied.

Pressing the tape into the large open areas will be difficult, as there is no backup support against which to push. Do not leave any air bubbles of unpressed tape, especially at the edges. The tape must be pressed firmly enough to set its bond to the Darco, or it will come off over time.

7. To make a permanent bond, when all the tape is applied and firmly pressed to the surface, use a heat gun to gently warm the entire tape width to about 8 to 12 " in length. Keep the heat gun moving back and forth; do not stop long in one spot, or you will burn the tape. Take special care to ensure you heat the tape edges. You only need to heat the tape warm enough just to touch and hold your hand in place. If it is too hot to touch, let it cool until you can just touch it before pressing, and try not to heat it that hot going forward. Once warmed, press all the tape again to set the adhesive. Keep heat and pressing 12" lengths of full-width tape until you are done.

Tip no. 1: If you are entering the basement from below, cut the Darco in the middle of a floor joist when possible. This will give you something to press against when applying the repair tape.

Tip no. 2: Starting the release paper to peel off the tape can be challenging. A trick learned how to get the release paper started is using a drywall knife or other sharp pointed knife to pick at the release paper about 1/8" to 1/4" from the end of the paper. You are trying to pick and release a small section of only the paper that will rip and lift up. Do not pick hard enough to rip into the tape itself, just the paper; the blade's sharp point will pick into a small spot of release paper loose. Then, grab the small loose paper tab and start pealing the paper away across the width of the tape.


If you have an extensive area of slits in many directions, I alter the repair a little differently as there are so many slits; they are all on top of each other.

See here where I had to repair a cracked grey water tank. This is after the repair was complete, and now came the final repair of the cut-up Dacro.


You can see the bundled-up Darco to the left of the picture. This large section is still attached to one side. The other three sides were cut to get all the wet insulation replaced. Since this piece crosses over the top of floor joints, in this case, many of them, I start the repair by laying out the old Darco flat to the joists and stapling it to them. You still may have some slits in open areas, and the Darco flap hangs down. In this case, I use 2" wide Gorilla tape to put 2" to 3" strips 90 degrees across the tear to hold it together and enough strips to keep the loose hanging Dacro up in the air. You do not have to gorilla tape every joint or the entire length of every joint; you can just tape the joint flaps hanging down that you cannot staple to a floor joist.

I then measure and cut a new piece of membrane material 2" narrower at the perimeter at the edge of both the length and width directions of the entire area I want to cover. This creates a patch 4" narrower and 4" shorter in length than the outside perimeter of the of patched area. In this case, the steel frame members created the outside dimension of the repair area, which I will cover with a new piece of membrane. I cut the sizeable new membrane patch 2" less in both length and width around the entire perimeter of the patch. This creates a patch piece that, when centered in the patch area, allows the 4" wide tape to have 2" bonded on the original Darco and 2" bonded to the new patch piece. You are using the Flex Mend tape to tape the entire perimeter of the patch to the original Darco membrane. See this pic of the new patch-taped area.


The 4" Flex Mend is also visible at the other perimeter edges. The grey tank being installed will further support the new repair membrane area.


I hope this helps.

John

[dkatz]

Hey John,

We are back at it with the floor in our 2007 Solaris. Unfortunately, we had a few issues come up preventing us to move forward since we last spoke - thankfully my husband's truck is now fixed. Regarding the floor, we're at the point where we trying to lay the vinyl flooring back down only to discover a little shrinkage and a little rippling (air pockets between subfloor and vinyl). I know it's not advised to apply glue but wanted to check with you to see if glue can be used just around the edges where we'll be applying the trim. My husband is trying to heat up the floor and use a roller to see if we can shape it back into place but any guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks again for your guidance.

[JohnB]

Hi Dyan,

Yes, shrinkage is typical in these cases. The vinyl was under tight shrink stress over the years, but since it was held in place tight, it just stayed tight. This is until it is cut loose from the walls. Then, it will start shrinking until the stress stops/neutralizes.

So, not what? I have seen this before, and below is what I have done to get the curled-up vinyl to lay fat again. There may be other ways, but this worked for me. I could not find a way to uncurl vinyl that stayed that way for weeks or months and lay flat in a few hours or days.

I agree that "some" light heating and rolling can help flatten "some" of the curling, but I would not try to force it flat with the heat all at once and expect it to last. The reason is that heat will warm the vinyl and make it more flexible, but the flooring cannot be naturally relaxed due to the heat. As the heat cools, the stress can return and start a more minor curl, and it still does not remain flat. There is still stress in the vinyl. The air pockets, too. To make this a little worse, you are in the northeast like we are, and it is cold outside now, unlike when you cut the vinyl. The colder temps make it a little harder to lay flat all at once.

Here is a suggestion, and it worked the two times I had to do this.

The first time, we had a sizeable curling issue. Think large curl ripples every foot, and we have about 6 feet that way; it was like ocean waves. It was curled for many months, maybe even a year, as we restored the camper. We used heat to warm it and then flattened it to about 70% flat after you stopped pressing it. Then, I laid a large piece of plywood on top with some weight (more weight is better until it lays flat) and let it normalize flat. It may have been pressed flat a few weeks before it was flat without the board on top when the curling was this severe.

The second time was in a smaller bathroom, and this only had one sizeable 90-degree curl, which I folded back in a doorway. It was left in this curling situation to dry out the floor for about 3 to 4 weeks before I put the S1 resin treatment on the OSB. This large curl was less severe than the first camper that sat for a year or more. I used no heat, only a plywood piece and weight, and let it sit for 2 weeks, etc., while fixing other water-damaged areas.

The main thing I found out is that if you lay the vinyl back down flat with a piece of plywood, etc., to cover almost all the surface on top with enough weight on top to create a flat, then let it sit that way long enough; it will naturally stress relieve itself flat. I have no magic formula for how long it takes as to how stressed the curls or air pockets are, and there are too many unknowns. It will take time, and ideally, warmer ambient temperature weather, but that is hard to get when going into winter. Check it every few days; if it is still not flat enough, put the weight back on until it becomes flat or flat enough.

The glue if you only do localized glue areas, then the vinyl will expand and shrink with temp changes and may pucker up somewhere else. If you resort to glue, you almost have to do all of it. I would leave the glue for the last resort.

This shrinkage and expansion over the temperature changes of the year are why I put the vinyl back down with molding around the room perimeter; it creates a perimeter space for the expansion when it is 100F inside stored in the summer and 70F in the fall, and below freezing the winter. Sunline put the camper walls on top of the vinyl while building the camper and created a perfect clamp to prevent buckling of the flooring with all the temperature changes.

Please let me know if you find a faster method to create a flat by itself, and it will stay that way. I am always open to learning from others.

I hope this helps.

John