New husband/wife resto project

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Trav

More progress! Any input on what bellypan material to use? Its getting about that time lol. 3/4 plywood will go down next. Is there any reason I shouldn't polyurethane the whole floor before I install the belly pan? I'm thinking it would just preserve everything even longer

Hi Trav,

On the bellypan material, here is an option for you. As the years went by, Sunline and the rest of the RV industry changed the way campers were built. Sometimes the newer method where better, and sometimes not.

Here is what the newer Sunlines used for the floor protection from road grim and allow an insulated floor. The product they used was a thick waterproof plastic weave membrane made by Darco products. We nick name it, Darco. There are other companies now making very similar products and I do not think Darco themselves makes the makes the plastic weave anymore, they offer other materials. I called them back in 2010 trying to buy the weave and at that time was told they no longer make that type.

The Darco would be placed down on the steel frame, "before" anything else was placed onto the frame. See the pics of one of my camper restoring projects. The entire back end of this camper had to be replaced.

KBS Rust seal coated the frame, then rolled the Darco back over it.


Build the floor joists


Insulate the floor


New decking on top, and then bolted decking and the joists to the frame with carriage bolts.


Then an advantage, the Darco can wrap up walls from the bottom and help create a water barrier when the siding goes on.


You can see the Darco wrapped up about 3" on the side walls, further up on the front and rear wall. The Darco one piece sheet only comes so wide. I think about 9 ft wide but any length you want.




The good about the Darco, it helps seal the bottom of the camper and the insulation from water trying to get in from the bottom up. It is all one piece, you can create penetration's in it for pipes etc to go through and then caulk seal the Darco to the pipe etc. And a biggie the RV industry change from metal sheeting belly panel to Darco, it costs less and has less labor to install.

A reality though of a waterproof membrane, once a leak starts and water makes it way all the way to the basement of the camper, water cannot get out. It then sits in there, festers and rots the floor out from a leak source that was high up on the camper. Some water does drip out staple holes etc, but it takes a long time.

I like it because it does work, and works well at sealing the floor system and the bottom of the side walls where the siding makes contact. I put extra effort and $$ into creating a much better sealing system of the roof and the siding to not get the leak in the first place.

House trailers, manufactured homes all use use the bottom belly plastic wrap and they sell repair tape called Flex Mend to patch it once a tear comes.

I bought some belly material back in 2010 from an RV dealer who had a roll from Keystone. It is a weaved product, polyethylene and coated to not leak. If you need, I can get a thickness as I have several Sunlines all apart in the shop and I can mic it. I did buy some that was too thin, so I learned what not to get.

RecPro in Elkhart IN I see is now offering it. They just do not state what thickness. I would call and confrim before buying. https://www.recpro.com/105-wide-rv-u...-coated-black/

They also are implying not to use this on towable trailers and you use there 1/8" plastics corrugated for that. There is more to it then that, they must of had someone try and use the thinner Darco style as an enclosed bottom tank compartment cover which is "not" what the Darco is used for. RV's use Coroplast 1/8" thick sheet for enclosed tank covers with the Darco up on the floor.

Hope this helps

John

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Trav

77 z28 restoration that im finishing up now. Factory 4 speed, non-ac car that i swapped a 5.3 LS engine into. It was a rust bucket. I had to replace both 1/4 panels, floor pans, trunk pan, lower tail pan, patch both fenders(with new metal) and weld in a new bottom on one of the doors. Its all good now though. I've had the car since 2002 when I was 14. Started working on it in July of 2020 lol. I did literally all of it by myself. Body and paint included.

WOW, you did a great job on the car restoration!! Ah, I know all about how long these restorations takes if you are part timing doing it. Years and years can go by.

I wish I could have a turn table to roll a camper over like your body cart. That sure would make doing the bottom a whole lot easier... It would be an engineering feat though to roll a 7,000# camper on the bigger ones over like that though. Doable, for sure, but may not be practical unless one is doing hundreds of campers. And I'm not that "into" camper restorations to be dong hundreds of them...

Thanks for sharing the pics.

John

[Trav]

Thanks for all the information and kind words! Ive got my floor pan built now so ordering the bellypan is next! I would like to get as thick a material as would be useful under there. I've seen the aluminum stuff that almost looks like foil bubble wrap on Amazon and had thought about that. But if you say the darco stuff is tough, I may just give that a go. What thickness is available? I like the idea of wrapping it up on the sides like the pic you posted so ill definitely be using that idea!

Is there a reason not to polyurethane the whole wooden framework of the camper? I feel like that would prevent any damage if I developed a small leak that I couldn't see for a while but don't ever see anything about doing that. The extra cost doesn't matter since we wi be keeping this thing.

[JohnB]

You are very welcome Trav. It always nice seeing others work, thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by Trav

Snip..

I would like to get as thick a material as would be useful under there. I've seen the aluminum stuff that almost looks like foil bubble wrap on Amazon and had thought about that. But if you say the darco stuff is tough, I may just give that a go. What thickness is available? I like the idea of wrapping it up on the sides like the pic you posted so ill definitely be using that idea!

I measured some on a 2007 T289SR Sunline I'm working on yesterday. The thickness is 0.015/0.016" Or 15 to 16 mil thick. I'm sure there is a tolerance, but a 15 mil target sounds right.

The bubble wrap stuff with foil on it. You can buy that in Home Depot, a big brand is called "Reflectix." https://www.homedepot.com/s/reflecti...ulation?NCNI-5

I have used the Reflectix as an insulating barrier, not a waterproof barrier. And is it good for the water resistant insulating barrier, but would not count on it as the primary water seal on the bottom of the camper. It is harder to wrap up the side walls and make 90 degree corner wraps. I used it in the flat as an insulating barrier on my enclosed tank compartment to help add some insulation value. My T310SR is one of the few larger Sunlines with enclosed tank compartments so you can camp longer in cold weather.

Here is what it looks like.


This is my bottom tank cover, there is the thicker Coroplast corrugated plastic cover under the Reflectix that then goes up on the camper frame.


Here it is screwed onto the I beam frame. The Reflectix is sandwiched in-between the frame and the Coroplast cover.




Since the original install, I found water wicked into the fluted Coroplast cover and then between the Reflectix. So I took the cover off, wrapped the perimeter with Gorilla tape, low heat warmed the tape and firmly sealed it. This solved the water wicking in problem. But as you can see, the tank compartment I can have a flat seal to the bottom of the I beam. This is not up high on the bottom of the camper floor, there Darco is still used.




The Coroplast side


Here is the Darco style membrane I bought cutting it to fit my slide room floor.


This is the FlexMend repair tape. Look for that brand. It comes in many sizes, I use 4" and 6" when repairing old bottom cover pin holes from staples when doing a camper restore. Amazon sells it or mobile home parts places that also sell the Darco . The repair tape is thin with a sticky back. It is very good on repairs, after putting it on, gently warm it, press firm and it will create a permeant seal. Just do not over heat or it will melt it, keep the heat gun moving to not burn.

Originally Posted by Trav

Is there a reason not to polyurethane the whole wooden framework of the camper? I feel like that would prevent any damage if I developed a small leak that I couldn't see for a while but don't ever see anything about doing that. The extra cost doesn't matter since we wi be keeping this thing.

There is not a problem with poly or other primer/painting all the wood framing other then the cost and time. If you want to do it, go for it. This comes down to personal choice, and there is nothing wrong treating the wood to make it last longer.

I'll give my thoughts on this, as in the beginning when I started working on campers, I too thought, why are they using bare SPF softwood untreated? Pressure treated wood comes up often with the thoughts, it won't rot as fast and that can make the camper last longer. It is true, treated wood does not rot as fast as untreated soft woods. But, will using treated wood really stop the camper from rotting out? The answer I came to learn the more I got into doing large restorations was, no, treated wood will not in the big picture stop the big problems.

The big problem is, the camper took on water, the quality of the sealants and methods used in the RV industry are "bad" if you are wanting to keep a camper a long time, 5 plus years stored outside all the time in the north east since new and not have to deal with water intrusion issues at some level. Even if I have treated wood, in what ever formulation, I cannot stop the aluminum siding corrosion that comes from tapped water in a wall behind the siding, I cannot stop the luan wall board, ceiling board, roof decking or plywood floor board from rotting. And while I have converted to all stainless fasteners that are exterior exposed, the interior fasteners are a mix of plated carbon steel that will still rust out. And then there is the insulation to deal with. By just treating the wood framing, yes I helped that area, but any leak is still bad even if the framing is still more tolerant to the rot.

So, I learned how campers leak after taking many of them apart. There are "lots" of leak potential sources on a camper. Then I researched and found high quality sealants that did not cost that much more to replace the standard RV sealants and changed the application methods. I put the time and extra small cost into sealing the camper up totally, both roof, siding and basement. And I can use untreated wood framing. I went after the source of the rotting problem and stalled the leak out before they start.

All that said, if you can store your camper under cover, ideal is when ever you are not camping. Even if it is under a cover of some kind during the off season, you can still greatly extend the life of a camper, the way they are built from the factory. Knowing how to seal them up, and storing them under a cover of sorts, gives one a high degree success of keeping them dry. Even campers stored inside all the time and you camp a lot, campers in the factory configuration can still leak if they are not sealed up and stay on top of it after about 5 years since new. The RV industry is not making campers to last the length of time many of us like to keep them. Many dealers selling them, do not take a lot of time telling you all the required maintenance that has to be done to help keep them from not leaking.

Doing a total super job of restoring like you are, , you do not want that camper to leak again. It is so much work to restore them, you do not want to do it over. Lets talk before you start putting the siding and roof on, on how to seal them up to not leak. Glad to share.

If you haven't noticed... I have a passion on doing camper restoration work and making them better then when they were new. Sunline gave us a good product to start with, they are still better then most being made today.

You are doing great work, keep up the good work!

Hope this helps

John

[Sunline Fan]

Originally Posted by Trav

Sunlinefan,
Thanks for all the info. I had a feeling you were a car guy when I found your rebuild thread lol. What ya got? Any idea where the best place would be to get replacement roof and belly pan metal? I can use my side tin but the roof and belly are pretty trashed. I saved them anyway for reference.

That Camaro looks incredible!! Very nice work. I'm usually not an aftermarket wheel fan but those work really well on there.

I have a pair of '59 Mercury Montereys, one sedan and one convertible. The vert is nearing the end of an almost three year frame off restoration, which my dad and I have done everything except paint, body, upholstery, and engine machine work. You can see the progress on Instagram @thebigm1959.

The belly pan is a good question- I'd say you could do the Darco like John mentioned. Interesting that yours has it, mine did not. It was just exposed wood under there, but coated in like a tar. So on my new floor, I truck bed lined the bottom of it and that was going to be it.

However regarding replacement metal, I actually talked to a guy at Bontragers RV Surplus a few weeks ago when I was there, who drove over from Chicago. He bought all his metal from https://atomiccamperpart.com/. He flew down there, rented a U-haul, picked up the metal, and drove back home. He picked up his and also a load for a friend doing a restoration, so it was worth the trip. Since they are in Georgia, it wouldn't be too bad of a drive for you. There are a few different places around the country who crimp new metal to specific crimp styles, so it's really most important to find one close to you so that you don't have to have it shipped a long way. Vintage trailers (more vintage than what we have) have multiple styles of aluminum crimp. I'm not sure if the Sunline style crimp is common anymore, but any company that does custom RV siding should be able to replicate it if they don't already.

[BenB]

Camper and Camaro progress are looking good. I like the custom coil covers, need some for my planned 5.3L swap. Restoring/rebuilding old camper and cars are both fun, tests out all your skills between both.

[Trav]

Benb

Thanks! They are msd covers. I had to modify the brackets pretty heavily to work with the truck coils as they were meant to go on 5.7 ls1. They are the only ones that I liked the looks of, so the effort was worth it to me.

Sunlinefan,

I love montereys! My dad and I bought a 54 sedan last year for a future project. I really love all of the chrome they had. My insta is dubsteez79 but I don't post too awful much there anymore. But ill def check yours out.

My bellypan was aluminum but is definitely too trashed to use. I also just bought a 76 starcraft popup that has nothing underneath. Just exposed wood. But it luckily has no rot anywhere. I'll probably spray some kind of coating on it before I start using it this spring as I do not want to do a full restore on it.

I'll definitely check that place out for replacement metal. A road trip to Georgia sounds fun. Hopefully I can save the majority of my tin.

John,

Thanks for the pics and recommendations. I found the darco style material and plan on ordering it today. Hoping to get all of my lumber for the walls over the next couple weeks and get started making it look like a camper again! I would do it next week but ill be explorong big bend, Guadalupe mountains and Carlsbad caverns, so obviously won't be near the shop lol.

Hope to post some more progress soon!

[BenB]

Hmm coil covers for LS1, those might go nice on my LS1 Camaro.

Our 1998 Coleman popup had exposed wood (OSB if I remember right) and never had any problems. It was dry when we bought it in 2009 and was still dry when we sold it ten years later. We stored it inside a garage the entire time we had it though.