Tired slide out motor

roger66ogden · 05-24-2021, 08:42 AM

Hi All.
Just wondering if there's a possibility that my slide out motor is getting tired.

JohnB and I have discussed slide adjustments and I got everything to as close as factory specifications as possible but my slide still needs a little assistant when extending it out the first foot or so. (Typically me using my foot doing a heel raise with my thigh against the counter and toes against the couch seat) or is it possible that I may need to remove the slide out motor and gear box and renew the lubricant/grease? I have dual batteries and both are fully charged. I checked all of the electrical connections for corrosion and tightness. I also pulled the switch out of the wall and checked there for loose or burnt connections.
Any and all comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Roger

**JohnB** · 05-24-2021, 10:53 PM

Hi Roger,

I'll give you my thoughts on the motor and a slide. I have found electric motors do not really get "tired", they are wound and sized that with a certain amount of power applied to them, they either work to create a certain amount of torque and HP or burn up trying. There really is not a tired, phase, other then pure mechanical binding in the motor creating higher internal friction eating up power. A DC amp probe if you have one can tell if the motor is pulling full current to rule out a connection issue. Make sure the DC negative/ground going to the motor system is good. A bad ground on the 12 VDC system is bad news and it will give the feeling of being weak as it cannot get enough power to it the motor to create full torque.

Knowing slides, it is "often" not the actual motor, but more the slide room system itself.

Excess drag on the slide is a common problem, and can be worse come spring start up.

The main places for excess drag seem to occur here:

1. The slide seals. These rubber seals can act like 20 some feet of brake lining against the sides of the slide. You can treat the seals with liquid silicone and it will not affect the rubber. I use 303 aerospace UV protectant on mine to keep then lubed, pliable and it helps on the Sun breaking down the rubber itself. The silicone spray treatment helps, but is more a spot treatment and does not last a long time, but it can get you going if you have no 303. Do as much of the seal as you can. Do both front and rear slide room wall seals and along the top as much as you can reach if there is a topper. If no topper, extend the slide out a foot or so and do the entire top seal.

2. The slide drive system. The rack and pinion area, gear box maybe and the rollers. This is a generic statement as each brand of rack and pinion slide drive has different rollers and gearing. Where there is high friction, there can be excess drag.

3. The slide floor can be a source of drag. This depends on how the slide floor is made. Some of the early slides, have Darco wrapped OSB floors. When the Darco rips and tears, then it is wood on wood or wood on steel friction rather then the plastic Darco membrane on rollers or a slide trough. The newer 2005 to 2007 Sunlines have a plastic coated floor and does not have the torn Darco issue of year past.

The first 2 items are the standard text book causes of excess drag. Work on them first and look at item 3 to see if there are any torn Dacro areas.

If all that helps but you still have issues, then we can dig deeper but the 1 & 2 usually get you going.

Hope this helps

John

roger66ogden · 05-25-2021, 06:13 AM

Thanks John.
I will check those things out. Dad gave me an amp meter but It's a clamp on for AC only. I will have to pick up some 303 and apply it. The darcor ? Isn't torn on the bottom of the slide so I think that might be able to be eliminated. Like I said I will move forward with your suggestions and then report back as to what I found.

roger66ogden · 05-25-2021, 06:16 AM

If I recall correctly we decided my slide set up is a Barker system. Someone put non synthetic grease on the rails and gears so I would imagine that this needs to be removed and synthetic put in it's place?

roger66ogden · 05-25-2021, 01:11 PM

John
I have attached 2 pictures. One is of the backside of the slide out switch and the other is a "spare" unconnected wire that was hanging out in the wall that I just noticed. It looks like gremlins may have been tinkering with the wiring. The wire that is not connected is dead. Checked with a multimeter. Even checked with the slide switch engaged both directions and no voltage.

roger66ogden · 05-25-2021, 01:53 PM

I believe I may have found the primary issue. The electrical motor is loose on the worm gear housing and one of the set screws are missing.

I happened to have a set screw laying around that fits so I have the motor securely fastened back into position based off the parts list diagram. The slide works better for sure but still trips the breaker on the way out. Thinking the 303 will take care of that as it sounds like a middle school hallway after a rain and all of the students squeaking their shoes on purpose to drive the teachers crazy��

**JohnB** · 05-26-2021, 10:30 PM

HI Roger,

Sorry, catching up. Yes, you have the Barker slide drive system.

On the gearing grease, where did you find that the greasing had to be synthetic? The open gearing can use either, just I would not mix them. If you want to use synthetic, then yes take off the old and put in the new.

The wall switch mystery wire, Sunline has used 2 switches for the slide system. The normal one you use to pull the slide in and out, and a emergency kill switch. I'm not sure what model year the emergency kill switch came to be. My 2004 T310SR (made in Nov 2003) has the kill switch inside the cabinet next to the in and out switch which is outside the cabinet. I'm believe the kill switch is there to cut power to the slide if the normal in and out switch burns itself on. The kill system is only on and off. Maybe someone unhooked yours. By chance do you have a kill switch? Check the cabinets close by to the normal in and out switch.

Or by chance, does your system have an electrical box that has a torque limiter in it? Barker at one time used to use them. But may have stopped and that extra wire was part of the torque control system.

Glad you found the loose motor mount. As to the dry seals....ya gotta get ride of that wet sneaker squeak...

roger66ogden · 05-27-2021, 09:08 AM

Hi John.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that the black rocker switch located in the cabinet directly above the slide out switch is the kill switch. I tried the switch in both positions and the slide still functions so someone probably bypassed the switch. I pulled the spare wire back out of the wall and tested it with the switch in both positions and there wasn't any voltage. I then dropped the black rocker switch out of the ceiling and tested both wires and there wasn't any voltage on either one of the wires. Not sure if I really want to try and fish the hot wire from the slide switch up to the kill switch. Seems legit like it would be almost impossible with the siding and the roof installed.

Roger

**JohnB** · 05-27-2021, 10:15 PM

Hi Roger,

My switch is white, but it looks the same. Not sure why someone would unhook it.

By chance, have you ever looked in the wooden 7 wire junction box where the truck 7 wire cable ties into the camper battery connected for the truck charge line and the other DOT lights? That wooden junction box, would be inside the camper, up front somewhere most likely inside a cabinet or under a couch if your floor plan has one. If you cannot find it, then under the front of the camper follow the 7 wire cable and see where it goes up through the floor into that box inside. Then hunt inside in that area.

In that box, Sunline would install a torque limiter, sort of and electronic clutch for the Dewald slide drive systems as that brand slide needed it. The Barker has the ability to use a similar torque limiter. Sometimes they did and sometimes they did not use it. The point being, the slide system gets its power from the junction box as the battery hot lead (+12 VDC) is in that junction box. Maybe if you look in that wooden box, there may be the looks of a possible control device in the with a heavy no 10 awg black wire to it. If there is an old limiter, it would of fed the kill switch originally that then fed the slide in/out switch. A prior owner may have had the limiter die on them, and they jumped it out and moved the power from the kill switch direct top the in/out switch.

The motor will work without the torque limiter, just there may not be any clutch or limiting feature. The motor gives full power all the time and if you hit something or the slide binds up, the motor just stalls at full load.

This post by Maint1, has the Dewald torque limiter in the wood box. If yours had one, that would be a place where Sunline would of put it

Here is his post. He has the black kill switch too, it shows up in his pics
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...tml#post150507

John

roger66ogden · 05-28-2021, 05:24 AM

Hi John
Yes I have looked in the box under the master bed before but there is no torque limiter in the box. I have a picture on the site https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/a...5&d=1597165170

So I am going to say someone removed the torque limiter and replaced it with the circuit breaker that's in the link above that I thought was the battery cb.

Are the torque limiters still available in the event that I decide to revert back to the way sunline originally designed the system?

Roger

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

Hi Roger,

My switch is white, but it looks the same. Not sure why someone would unhook it.

By chance, have you ever looked in the wooden 7 wire junction box where the truck 7 wire cable ties into the camper battery connected for the truck charge line and the other DOT lights? That wooden junction box, would be inside the camper, up front somewhere most likely inside a cabinet or under a couch if your floor plan has one. If you cannot find it, then under the front of the camper follow the 7 wire cable and see where it goes up through the floor into that box inside. Then hunt inside in that area.

In that box, Sunline would install a torque limiter, sort of and electronic clutch for the Dewald slide drive systems as that brand slide needed it. The Barker has the ability to use a similar torque limiter. Sometimes they did and sometimes they did not use it. The point being, the slide system gets its power from the junction box as the battery hot lead (+12 VDC) is in that junction box. Maybe if you look in that wooden box, there may be the looks of a possible control device in the with a heavy no 10 awg black wire to it. If there is an old limiter, it would of fed the kill switch originally that then fed the slide in/out switch. A prior owner may have had the limiter die on them, and they jumped it out and moved the power from the kill switch direct top the in/out switch.

The motor will work without the torque limiter, just there may not be any clutch or limiting feature. The motor gives full power all the time and if you hit something or the slide binds up, the motor just stalls at full load.

This post by Maint1, has the Dewald torque limiter in the wood box. If yours had one, that would be a place where Sunline would of put it

Here is his post. He has the black kill switch too, it shows up in his pics
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...tml#post150507

John

**JohnB** · 05-29-2021, 03:49 PM

Hi Roger

Odd I do not recall that pic of your 7 wire junction box. Your pic stated the auto resetting circuit breaker was for the truck charge line. And the pic shows a green 30 amp auto blade type fuse.

Trying to see if Sunline changed methods over the years. In the newer campers, they use a fuse in the truck charge line and the auto self resetting breaker in the battery connection line. Why are they different types of load protection? Not sure but here are my thoughts

The truck charge line most likely will never be able to charge a full 30 amps. The wire is too small and the distance it too long. They fused it for short circuit protection, water or something else got in and messed with the 7 wire plug or cable and that event will not fix itself. So a hard blown fuse will stay disconnected.

The auto resetting circuit breaker also most likely will not trip on battery charging above 30 amps. Distance too long and wire too small. But the issues can be different as to what trips inside the camper. When that trips, the entire 12 volts dc is out if you are on battery only. Most all things just stop including fridges that need 12 volts to run the controls. Thus a self resetting breaker gives short protection but a chance the issue went away and might be ok to auto reset and not create great chaos inside the camper.

Have a look and confirm the fuse is on the camper charge line of the truck. Maybe a prior owner changed something

To the torque limiter, talking with the Barker service guy, some used the limiter and some did not. I quizzed him this as on all the newer Sunlines using the Lippert slide drive they do not have them. They use a mechanical clutch. I suspect the early days of torque limiters may have proven to be problematic. If they are too sensitive, they give false trips. Or they die from electronic failure and may be why they stopped using them. Barker also stoped making slide drives which is most likely why Sunline was forced to change brands.

I asked if the DC motor had an issue with full power stall out as that is what happens every time the slide comes in it goes out. He stated it does not hurt the motor as long as you let go of the button within a few seconds. Hanging on a long time may create issues

The Newer Lippert systems work that way in the way in. They stop have not more movement and you let go of the button.

To your direct question, Barker might have them still. If you do call them and get one, let us know the outcome

John

roger66ogden · 05-29-2021, 06:45 PM

Hi John.
The circuit breaker definitely trips I do know that. Because when the slide is sliding out it will trip at times. We are going camping next weekend and I am going to play with the adjustment a little more. I noticed that the slide is rubbing on the forward end of the slide so I will adjust a little at a time and see if I can get it raised up to reduce the drag on the carpet all the more.

mainah · 05-30-2021, 06:15 PM

Your switch is DPDT very common reversing DC switch. Think you are on the right track with a dragging slide.

roger66ogden · 05-30-2021, 07:14 PM

Thanks Mainah.
It was riding high on the rear end of the slide and I got that adjusted down and thought the forward end of the slide raised enough by doing so but I guess not. I know it doesn't take very much adjusting though to make a big difference. I only adjusted the rear an 1/8 of an inch and it dropped the inside almost 1/2 an inch.

roger66ogden · 06-08-2021, 10:36 AM

I adjusted the slide a little more this weekend. I got it to slide out and in full travel a couple of times without the breaker tripping. I am going to assume that it is normal as the slide is first exiting and entering the seal on the camper that it moves slower due to the increased friction of the seal? I treated everything several times with 303 as recommended.

**JohnB** · 06-11-2021, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger66ogden

I adjusted the slide a little more this weekend. I got it to slide out and in full travel a couple of times without the breaker tripping. I am going to assume that it is normal as the slide is first exiting and entering the seal on the camper that it moves slower due to the increased friction of the seal? I treated everything several times with 303 as recommended.

Hi Roger,

Not sure I'm understanding your question right, sorry. The seals do increase the friction/drag going in and out. There is is normal drag, but there are times the seals get so dry from not being lubed or 303'ed, that the friction is very high, sometimes to high and that very high is not normal.

The breaker should not be tripping going in and out. That is not normal.

roger66ogden · 06-11-2021, 08:02 PM

Hi John.
The breaker was tripping because the slide was binding. I adjusted the tracking of the slide and raised the front inside edge to reduce the drag on the carpet. I have to lower it down a little to get the slide to touch evenly on the outside as I adjusted it a bit to much.

Roger

roger66ogden · 06-11-2021, 09:10 PM

Hi John.
The breaker was tripping going out because of the drag on the carpet on the forward end of the slide. I adjusted the tracking 1.5 inches at the rear and lowered the front outside edge of the slide to raise the inside front off the carpet and raised the rear outside because there was still a large gap between the bottom of the slide floor and the camper floor. I have to raise the front outside up a little because I lowered it a bit too much. The slide still moves slowly the first 6 inches on the way out and the last 6 inches on the way in.
V/r
Roger

**JohnB** · 06-17-2021, 05:18 PM

OK got it. Let us know how it goes.