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Old 07-18-2020, 09:38 AM   #81
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Hi Russ,

Thanks for the bushing info and the LCI link.

Wow.... just wow. I went back and looked again at LCI's Road Armor video.

But I did find them reported on the Etrailer site that sells them and reviews them. https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Lea.../LC696740.html From Etrailer, the Road Armor is rated from a 3,500# all the way to a 8,000# axle.

Since your trailer is using the 3,500# axles and you are using the HD shackles, that is a plus. The bushing being shorter on your setup is not as magnified as it would on a 5,200# axle or an 8,000# axle. You may not have an issue or it will take lots of miles to get to that point. The good it can do for your size trailer may outweigh the issues. Just keep and eye on the side thrust wear. You are well trained at changing bronze bushings!

Now to the grease and the bushing, sintered bronze has a look to it with the porosity in the surface. If you have a 10x loop or magnifying glass you can possible see the pores to help confirm or deny it has a sintered/lube bushing. Your thought on silicone based grease for the rubber issues is a good thought. Synthetic brake caliper greases may be an option too. Here is one brand CRC that is rubber safe. And it "might" be silicone based I'm not totally sure, https://www.crcindustries.com/produc...-oz-05359.html You could hand pack the bushing with the synthetic grease.

To alter the pin for a wet bolt, the process on your lathe is easy enough, I have done several over the years and have no issues doing it. Odds are high LCI may declare any warranty to be gone if you ever submit a claim. This comes down to who is doing the mod and if they are willing to accept what comes with doing it, the good and the bad. If you do go wet bolt, then to find a tube of rubber safe grease if you go that way and a new grease gun to pump it in. A flush type grease fitting may help be less cost for the grease gun or not.

If you have not see flush type grease fittings and a pistol grip grease gun see here. The only thing is they do not create the same grease pressure as a big handle gun. You have to jack up the camper to get the grease in. But at least you do not find a standard grease tube to fit a standard gun. You can pack the grease into a pistol canister by hand.

Flush fittings https://www.mcmaster.com/flush-style-grease-fittings

One of many pistol grip grease guns to work on the flush fittings.
https://www.mcmaster.com/flush-style...rease-fitting/

Good discussion.

PS, I see on the Etrailer site video & pictures grease-able wet bolts on the Road Armor with 1/4" shackles. Not sure who is selling them and why not get the HD ones??

John
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Old 07-19-2020, 02:16 PM   #82
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Quote:
The 1/2" long pivot arm bushing. Wow, just plain wow. I think they missed something on that. Minute 1:42 in the video shows a good cut away. The rubber is a good ways away from the pivot bolt area so grease getting to the rubber I'm not sure was an issue. They formed the side plates with an indentation on both sides to meet up with the pivot arm. I have a "belief" they did that forming process to make the side plates stronger and remain thin to handle the twisting thrust forces of the equalizer when the a tandem or triple axle setup goes through turns. This is only my speculation, but it allows them to make the parts cheaper.

The downside is the 1/2" bushing. That bushing is taking all the side thrust twisting loads that the top center hanger bushing also takes. And like you stated, the top hanger is 1 3/4" wide not 1/2". When the center pivot bolt/bushing starts wearing on the conventional rigid equalizer, that wear starts the shackles twisting and the suspension wear out cycle starts magnifying itself as the miles add up.
Hi John, I've been thinking about your comments and reviewing the construction of the Road Armor in the video parts cut away and have some observations. FYI, I looked at was 1/2" bushing with magnification, it is a sintered metal.

In the first picture, I show the indentation on the outside plate with a 1-1/8" od washer for reference. The significance here is the side thrust area is much larger than the top hanger bolt bushing holder when mounted in frame hanger. The indentation area rides against the pivot area which is a solid 1/2" thick plate. The 1/2" bushing is totally supported at the center part of the 1/2" thick pivot plate that is ~1-3/4" tall. When the pivot shoulder bolt is tightened, there is virtually no clearance between the thrust area and the pivot arm. Than as the arms extend out from the center, there are guide plates welded to the pivot arm that keep the arm centered between the inside of the 3-1/2" wide side plates of the equalizer. The equalizer top plate is welded between the 2 side plates. I believe the 4 piece internals, upper rubber shock absorber, pivot arm, lower rubber shock absorber and bottom plate are slid in and compressed until the bottom plate support holes are exposed, than the two 3/8" bolts are installed. The 2 things I get from this observation are:
A)There would be much less, if any, chance of twisting thrust in the pivot area. I think you were right on about the side plate strengthening process and cost effectiveness of this design. But I also think most of the twisting thrust would still be in the top hanger bolt.
B) The way the rubber bushings and pivot are designed to work together, I think some of the trailer load is supported by the equalizer ends, rubber shock absorbers, and pivot guide plates. With the pivot point out, I think this would support a good part of the trailer weight, depending on the rubber durometer, thus compression. The pivot arm can not be pulled out even with the bolt out, because the the top and bottom triangular shape of the rubber engaged in the top and bottom end plates being under compression.

Since I am not an engineer, that's my educated guess. I personally think it would have been better to have made that center pivot bushing to fit the id of the straight sides of the equalizer, but maybe it's not as bad of a design as it first appeared to me or you. I think another point of concern is that LCI, in there manual states the shock absorber material to be natural rubber. I think it would of been better to use polyurethane in place of the natural rubber. The rubber will probably not last much more than 10-15 years just from exposure to ambient elements. Lithium grease will shorten that significantly because rubber is not compatible with most petroleum products. If they used polyurethane, it's a higher durometer, virtually none of the natural elements will break down the material, and it has some lubricity which might help in the pivot action. Plus I think as the rubber wears out, it will loose some of it's weight bearing ability, thus potentially start causing more load and wear on that short pivot bushing.

So much for the design theory, I'm using the Road Armor, but I'm adding a zerk fitting to the pivot bolt, and using Synthetic silicone/TFE grease. Most synthetic brake caliper grease packets are silicone base grease. I think the other wet bolts I will stick with the less expensive Lucas marine grease that I use on my vehicles. If this grease squeezes out at the hanger center bolt, it will actually dribble down the outside of the equalizer and probably not get on the rubber, shock absorber as the outside of the equalizer dimension is only 1-1/2" wide.

John, I think we're having an interesting conversation about this, but probably no one else is going to care. Again let me know if I'm rambling on with my opinion to much.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20200718_Roadarmor2.jpg (45.1 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 20200718_RoadarmorTop.jpg (30.7 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 20200718_RoadarmorBottom.jpg (34.2 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 20200718_Roadarmor4.jpg (41.2 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 20200718_Roadarmor5.jpg (32.5 KB, 81 views)
File Type: jpg RoadArmorInternal.jpg (23.1 KB, 82 views)
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Old 07-19-2020, 04:27 PM   #83
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Hi Russ,

Thanks for the extra pics and your observations.

I missed the point on the welded tabs on the pivot arm that “fit” to the side plates. These 2 pics show them well.





And yes, you are correct. Those tabs on the pivot will help take side thrust from the leaf springs, then into the side plates of the Road Armor, and then the side plates to the center hanger bolt on the trailer frame. If the pivot arm bushing cannot control all the thrust, and as the 1/2" wide bushing wears, the side plates will start taking thrust load from the welded on tabs. Those tabs may be grinding into the side plates as the arm moves up and down during turns. Over time, you can look at the ends and see if there is galling metal and how much.

By your observations, I agree the rubber sandwiched in there like they do against the pivot arm and the welded in rubber support plates attached to the side plates, the rubber is taking some level of trailer weight support. At least when it is new. That does take some of the weight off the 1/2" bushing.

How long the setup will last, how many miles? Time will tell. On your camper, it could be the life of the camper. I agree, looking at it now from your review, it is better then what I first saw. On an 8,000# axle they rate it for, the loads get a lot higher everywhere. My T310SR setup has 5,000# spring sets on a 6,000# upgraded axle tube per axle. That T310 is a 10,000# GVWR camper. By the numbers, there is a level of safety cushion in sizing even for the large Sunline travel trailers. The largest Sunline 5th wheel I think has 7,000# axles in it as the GVWR is 14,500# on the biggest 2004 Sunline 5’er.

Good they put a sintered bushing in. That helps. And good for you on the synthetic grease. It will help the bushing last longer.

No worries on the added detail. When someone is researching this, they like seeing detail level discussion. Folks who have interest, will read it.

Thanks for sharing.

John
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:03 AM   #84
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Hi John,
I got the curb side suspension installed, and I'll finish the drivers side today. I have some pictures of the modified Road Armor wet pivot bolt, the installed leaf springs, and the MorRyde x-factor center hanger brace.

Just a couple of notes for anyone interested. The Road Armor pivot shoulder bolt was drilled with a #42 (0.0935")drill, this is what all of the MorRyde wet bolt grease holes are. The zerk fitting threads are 1/4-28, drilled with a #3 drill. I drilled just a little past the hex head and had to use a bottoming tap. The #42 drill goes just past the center point of the shoulder.

Installing the center hanger bolt in the Road Armor, the equalizer fit snugly but pivoted easily after hanger bolt was torqued. Since I was using different manufacturer components (MorRyde HD shackles & shoulder bolts) the stack up tolerances were to tight. When I tightened the shackle bolts on the Road Armor, they wouldn't pivot, they were to tight. I took some measurements and found that the Road Armor shackle bushing housings were several thousands oversize compared to the shackle inside measurement. Luckily, it was just paint on the ends was very thick, so I filed the paint off and put back together and everything moves smoothly. I will also mention that the leaf spring eyes fit the hangers and shackles very loosely laterally, so I installed 1/32" thick washers on each side to take up some of the play. Everything seems to move smoothly with no binding.

So the main reason for this post today is to discuss the installation of the new axle u-bolts. I bought the Dexter Kit K71-293-00, the exact replacement from my Dexter Axle. The manual give a torque rating, but no additional information. I was kind of surprised that the nuts aren't flange nuts and don't supply washers, or that they are not crimped lock nuts. So I went to Dexter Website and couldn't find any info, I even called Dexter and the lady just sent me a updated version of the manual I already have, but doesn't answer the question of torque value with dry or lubricated threads. I started thinking about using lock-tite. But then I started reading different things on a Google search. There seems to be a lot of different opinions on U-bolt installation, dry or lubricate, and re-checking torque's. I found a reference to a Dexter instruction manual (but it's not on the Dexter website), 059-551-00A.pdf, but my computer software says it unsafe and won't let me go there. I tried google searching that document number and low and behold, a post you referenced (not from the Sunline forum, but I didn't write down the web address) showed a link to the exact website link that my computer won't let me access. So here are my question/comments to you.

1)Do you have that document saved. I thought I read that it gives you the dry torque and the lubricated torque values.
2)Assuming things do relax and you need to re-torque a couple of times, it wouldn't be prudent to use lock-tite, correct?
3)I kind of thinking maybe a double nut is a good answer. You could loosen the second nut to check the torque, and after the 50, 500 or 1000 mile check (what is your opinion on re-torques) forget about it as the double nut should prevent loosening from vibration. I have never checked mine since I owned the trailer, they were rusted in place, no signs of being loose at any point.
Dexter doesn't give specs on the u-bolts, some places I read that 3/8" and 7/16" u-bolts are grade 5 and larger are grade 8.

Since I know you've done several axle upgrades and modifications over the years, you probably have some good insight on this subject. U-bolt tightening technics and maintenance may trivial to some people, but from some of the truck and trailer forums I read, loose u-bolts can and have caused some serious equipment failure and/or accidents.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20200720_MachineWetBolt.jpg (73.6 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg 20200720_ThreadedShoulderBolt.jpg (37.5 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg 20200721_PivotWetBolt.jpg (31.7 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg 20200720_ModifiedRoadArmor.jpg (45.2 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg 20200722_CurbSideLeafInstall1.jpg (82.6 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 20200722_CenterHangerBrace1.jpg (67.8 KB, 3 views)
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Old 07-23-2020, 11:35 AM   #85
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After getting back to work and wire brushing the u-bolt bottom bracket, I noticed that it was deformed. This is a good discussion point of my last post on re-torqueing. Over time with the movement of the axles and equalizer, this plate probably flexes over time, causing the bolts to loosen up. I didn't notice when I put the other side together, makes me wonder if I should of bought new plates. To late now I'm going with what I have. The pictures I'm attaching are a straight edge on the top and then bottom of plate, so depending on which picture your looking at, there is a gap on the ends or in the middle. I measured the gaps with drill bit end in the middle of the cupped side, it about 0.040". I can see the hardness of the material being used as a factor, makes you wonder about using some of the cheap over seas metal. Even if you buy Dexter parts, you may be getting something that's not made in the US. That's not to say there aren't quality over seas products, you just have to be aware, sometimes you get what you pay for.
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File Type: jpg 20200723_uboltbracket.jpg (41.5 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 20200723_U-boltBracket2.jpg (35.4 KB, 2 views)
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:27 PM   #86
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Axle Alignment check

I've been busy with other things and just work on the trailer when I have some spare time. I wanted to go through the alignment check based off of things I picked up from some of JohnB's and Tod's axle threads. So this won't be that much different, it just might have a few more details for someone wanting to try this instead of paying someone to do it.

So the first thing I had to do was make a few tools for hooking up a tape measure to a hitch ball (thanks to Tod for the idea). This is the reference point to measure back to the front axle to make sure the axle is the same distance to each side to run true with the tow vehicle.

Center drill and tap hitch ball for 3/8-16 NC thread,
5/16" tap drill size. Note: This is hardened bolt, must grind off hardened surface on end of thread. Hardened surface probably a 1/16" or less thickness. This bolt will get the tape measure close to level with the measurement point on each drum on the front axle.


Ball assembly installed with a 3/8" x 4" bolt for a pivot point for tape measure to hook to. Bolt squareness with frame more important side to side than front to back if bolt is off center, in order to get accurate measurement on each side as tape measure pivots.


This tape measure extension looks unfinished, but the center of the small end is centered on the larger side that the end of the tape measure is hooked and wired to under tape. This extension is made of 5/32" steel rod so it is hard enough not to bend when applying 15 lbs of tension.


Here is where the tape measure hooks up to on the hitch ball. The absolute measurement isn't critical unless your welding in new frame hangers. For just doing an alignment check, the difference between readings from one side to the other is.


I punched a hole for scale to hook to. It is far enough away from where you are measuring to so it doesn't interfere with measurement.


Another one of Tod ideas.
Scale hooked to tape measure. I found 15 pounds got the tape very taught for accurate measurement. The purpose to this is to get a constant tightness on the tape measure and get the most accurate readings possible.


Here is the tape measure held taught at 15 lbs. The front and back drums studs are leveled and the measurement reference point is the front lug stud bolt (in front of hub not visible).


That's it for now, there is more setup before actually getting measurements, that will be the next part.
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Old 08-01-2020, 12:31 PM   #87
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Nice looking axle alignment setup Russ. Looking forward to the rest of the setup and your findings.

Thanks for sharing.
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Old 10-11-2020, 08:58 PM   #88
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Checking Alignment

Well I've been busy with family and other things that put my trailer suspension project on hold for over 2 months now. I had to refresh my memory where I left off on things as I don't retain stuff very long these days.

I did do an alignment check before I quit working on suspension, and it was off quit a bit. I used the tape measure I fabricated, from the ball to the front lug stud, with the 2 top lugs leveled. To get a nice straight line to measure to I screwed on a lug nut and made sure it was the same distance from the drum machined surface on both sides of axle. I used 1-1/4", but it really doesn't mater as long as it's the same on both sides.

I also wanted to see if the axle was centered in the frame, so I measure each drum relative to the frame. I used an 18" steel scale and centered it on the axle spindle. the top studs were leveled and I used a square to measure from the frame to each end of the scale.


Here are the initial measurements I got.

So I reviewed these numbers with JohnB to try and make some sense out of a couple of things. The good thing is the front axle seems to be in alignment with the ball, but it's concerning that the left (bottom) toe on both axles seems way off, almost like it's bent. The rear axle is also out of alignment relative to the front by 5/32" So John suggested getting a better measurement on the axle toe, by measuring drum to drum and eliminate the multiple measurement from drum to frame on both sides. We want to make sure the axle is straight and is within +- 1/16" of tow.

I didn't have 2 - 18" scales, so I used 2- 12's. I aligned the stud on the side I was measuring to, to 4" on the scale, so it was sticking out 8". I used lug nuts screwed on lug to hold the scale tight to the drum machined surfaces. I than leveled the 2 horizontal studs and c-clamped the drum so it wouldn't move. Measurements were taken like this on both sides of drum and measured across the axles.


Here's the axle measurements.


So looking at these dimensions that the axle is straight and within the toe spec with ~1/32" of toe in. Base on my first set of measurements relative to the frame, there were to many places for errors in readings. Everything has to be perfectly square, and perpendicular to get accurate measurement, or otherwise you can create errors in readings. Obviously the frame channel may not be perfectly flat, square and/or parallel to each side.

So that's it for now. The axle project is complete, but I will complete this thread in a couple of more post as time permits. Next time I'll look at the rear axle alignment and how I fixed that.
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Old 10-12-2020, 04:51 AM   #89
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That looks great! I really enjoyed reading that.
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Old 10-12-2020, 09:42 PM   #90
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Looking good Russ! Thanks for sharing.

Looking forward to the rest of the axle fix/install write up when the time comes.

John
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Old 10-13-2020, 08:22 AM   #91
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Checking Alignment, Back Axle

I just wanted to say that this whole suspension topic has been a real learning experience and many of the techniques I show may not seem significant, but the all add up to getting better measurements. I have to give JohnB and Tod O. a thumbs up, for many of these suggestions are from them.

So part of this learning experience has been taking many measurements several times, over and over, using different variations to get the best end result. On some of my original tries at getting measurements was to eyeball a tape measure reading to the center of a lug, or wheel hub, etc. You need a sharp straight line to get high precision measurements. Somewhere in one of JohnB or Tod's threads I picked this up, using the outside edge of a lug nut (turned backwards) to measure to. Also keeping everything on the same plane, square and level can't be over stated. This is the setup I used for checking the back axels after confirming the front axle was inline with the tow ball. This is the left side of trailer.



Before I set the square verticals to touch the leading edge of the forward lug stud, I made sure each axle was in the same plan relative to the frame, by measuring from top of axle to bottom of frame. This measurement was also my best guess at a loaded suspension. Note that I completed this the evening before checking other side.



After setting the squares I moved this to the other side the next morning. This is were I found my suspension was out of alignment.


This is zoomed in on rear right side axle.


This closeup shows 11/32" difference from the other side, but his is not the true measurement. I took this picture the morning after I did the setup, this is important to show how much your measurements can be skewed by angularity. Between the temperature change over night and some probable hydraulic leakage, a couple if my axles dropped giving a false reading. I re-set all of the axles heights to 3-3/4" and my correct "difference" measurement was 5/32".

Also later I verified my measurements by putting lug nuts on the bottom centered lug and measured leading edge to both axle nuts.



So I'll end here for now. I have to figure out how I will correct this even though this is probably how my trailer has been since day one. The recommended tolerance is +- 1/16" and my rear axle is close to 3/16" out of alignment.

I know this is probably to much detail for some, but when I started this project, I had to gather information from several sources including JohnB and Tod O's suspension threads and personally talking over things with JohnB. I'm trying to make it easy for someone with little experience to do this if they want to save money doing it themselves, or just learn something new doing hands on work, which can be very satisfying.
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Old 10-13-2020, 04:13 PM   #92
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Nice pics Russ and good use of creating accurate dimensions using basic tools with some ingenuity on how to apply them.

It is not shocking to find another camper with axles out of alignment. Once you find the issue, then comes, what is causing it? And, how to I correct it?
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Old 10-15-2020, 09:18 AM   #93
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After finding the rear axle was out of alignment, I went back to checking all of the hanger dimensions and if they were welded on straight. The hangers were all the exact same distance on the left side, and the right side one of the hangers was off 1/16", and the were all welded on parallel to the frame. All of the bolt holes seemed to be centered in the brackets. So I looked at the back leaf springs on both sides to see if the center pin that the axle seat sits on was off.







So these weren't the most accurate measurements as I had trouble figuring out how to get the scale in with the installed curve of the leaf. The closeup picture angles don't really give you the true angle as I was measuring from the edge of the pin to the center of the eye, but the left side seemed to be equal and the right side seemed to be off by ~1/8". I was considering making an adjustable spring seat like JohnB did in his 2009 axle post, but decided to try flipping the right spring to see if that would fix the problem.

I wanted to show how I got the serrated bolts out without stripping the hanger hole. It is much easier than trying to hammer out or trying to use a c-clamp. The press is out of a Harbor Freight front end service kit. If you don't want to spend the money on buying it, Advance Auto, Napa, and probably other Auto parts stores have a lending program where you borrow the tool for nothing. You do have to make a deposit, but get it back, assuming you don't damage the tool.





Just flipping the right spring, got me to within 1/8", so I flipped the left rear spring and that got me right on the money. Note that before I removed the springs to ream the eyes, I marked all of the springs and put them back in the same position as I removed them. So the axle was miss-aligned from the factory. I did run into a little bit of a problem trying to get the axles seats on the leaf spring center post. The axle seats were about 1/8" more then the centers on the spring pins. I had to use a clamp to force the seat on the pin. The reason I bring this up is from my machining background, I try to get snug fits with little play. I actually tried to remove the slop between the leaf eye and the hanger with washers filling the gap on either side. This was a mistake, there are to many variables that can be off, and you need some built in clearance to hopefully make up for miss-aligned holes and bracket placement. I had to go back and remove all of the washers, and that still didn't give me enough clearance to easily drop the axle on the center pins.


Here is the final measurements of the rear axle centers after doing the flip.

Left side.


Right Side


That's it for this thread, this was way to long so I'll start a new thread relating to my original problem of trailer sway, where I will post the results of how the trailer rides after this modification.
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Old 10-15-2020, 12:11 PM   #94
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Thanks Russ for reporting your final outcome.

I had always suspected that the spring pin hole could be off location, but I never measured one and found it off as badly off as yours was. I can easily see how your spring error was put on from day 1. They may have welded on the hangers right at the frame shop correctly. There has been errors in this too, but in your case they were good. Then they just bolted on new axle assemblies out of the shipping crate which can come pre-assembled with the springs on them. And even if the springs did not come on them, they just bolted on 2 new spring sets to create a final assembly. While there is a front and back direction to an axle tube on how it is to be installed, that is known and "most" times installed correct. The assembled axle with springs then gets installed into the hangers and they call it good.

The only way to know a new camper is shipped from day 1 in proper wheel alignment, is to check the whole assembled camper setup all put together. There are a lot of tolerances that have to add up to create the final outcome. I seriously doubt any RV manufacture does a final alignment check before shipping. Or RV dealer does before selling.

The RV forums often report messed up axle alignment issues. The brand of camper does not seem to matter. In the big picture, this problem may be a small number compared to how many campers are made, but to the camper owner who bought one of those out of alignment trailers does not appreciate wearing out new tires fast. And then dealing with who was at fault and who is going to fix it.

Nice job you did. Thanks for sharing.

John
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Old 12-30-2020, 03:17 PM   #95
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Clearance Issue's,

Okay, you probably thought that this long winded thread was over, well I had to post one last concern that maybe would help someone that may be interested in installing the Lippert Road Armor Equalizer.

So after I finished the modifications covered in this thread, I moved the trailer to indoor winter storage. I have included some pictures the day I was moving it, after which I drove it about an 1 hour away. So first off, the trailer towed nicely with no issues. But as you can see by the picture pf the equalizer, there is little clearance to the bottom of it, besides the only 2-1/2" or less of tire clearance to wheel wells. I would like to note that the Lippert website doesn't mention any potential clearance issues, but never mentions whether this equalizer is intended for use on either underslung or overslung axles.

I've had some initial discussions with John B after towing it about my concerns. I kind of left it undecided since I had the winter to figure out any actions I may take. Between the 3 concerns, tire clearance, going over pot holes or speed bumps, and a flat tire scenario, the flat tire issue seems to be the biggest concern. The tire wall height is 5-6", and if you have a blowout, what are the consequences? Assuming the Road Armor hits the pavement, there is nothing good that can come out of this situation, but many bad things.

We just made reservations to go to Yellowstone National Park at the end of August 2021. Needles to say traveling a couple of thousand miles and going into the mountains, I decided to do the Dexter Axle under over conversion. I was kind of against doing this before for other concerns, but doing this will not only give me plenty of trailer height clearance, but will give me piece of mind about the equalizer clearance issues.

One last thing about Lippert Website, they aren't very detailed oriented. They don't give you much detail on the equalizer installation requirements, like MORryde: https://www.morryde.com/wp-content/u...-Qualifier.pdf
The Road Armor is not made for underslung axles, the only way I now know this is (besides my measurements) is all of the pictures and reference material on Lippert website only show pictures of them on overslung axles,
without ever mentioning it, so keep this in mind if you consider using them.
Lippert Link: https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0001243.pdf
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Old 12-30-2020, 06:29 PM   #96
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Hi Russ,

Cool on the Yellowstone trip. Good for you. Let us know how the trip goes.

Good choice on the over/under conversion.

I also learned some new things about the wheel well clearance and the way Sunline setup these low riding campers. I'll do this in another post semi soon. I need to get an answer back from Dexter on the unloaded spring eye to eye and arch height dimensions. My T1950 project camper has very little wheel well clearance. I am doing the axle flip anyway for other reasons, but I needed to make sure my springs are not flattened and need replacing too. I do not have this all sorted out yet, but have half the pieces of the puzzle. This link will drop you in the middle of a roof job... but at the bottom of that reply, it the start into the wheel well issues and the springs. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...tml#post154534

Thanks for reporting back.

John
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Old 12-31-2020, 02:49 PM   #97
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Wow just wow! I have been reading these posts until my eyes bleed!

They are amazingly detailed but I don't understand half of it

I am get waiting for someone to say buy this!
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Old 01-12-2021, 05:57 PM   #98
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Really interesting stuff. I have the Ez-flex on my 286SR and have had it on my list to do the heavy duty suspension kit on my 2653. I believe the suspension components are all original but the trailer has pretty low mileage and I haven't heard any noises indicating a problem yet.

Just curious Russ, in case I missed it, do you know roughly how many miles are on your trailer, or how many you've put on it?
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Old 01-12-2021, 08:21 PM   #99
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My Sunline was sitting in a park not moved, for the first 5 years of life from original owner. I've owned the trailer since 2003, but only use it once or twice a year, for longer 1-2 week vacations. Several years I didn't use it much, so I'm going to guess somewhere between 20k-30k miles. I think the bushings were worn out for a long time, I just never thought much about them. I thought they were like pickup truck leaf springs where you don't really have maintenance on the bushings.

Hopefully JohnB will respond, I think he has some idea about how long that the original plastic bushing last. From what I remember, they don't last long. My trailer really didn't make any different noises, I just decided to check them out since I had to remove wheels to change tires. Also part of checking suspension was from my initial trailer sway issues with my new Ram 1500.
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Old 01-12-2021, 11:02 PM   #100
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Jon & Russ,

A learning from Russ's post. In Dexter's running gear owner's manual (at least from 2003 to today's manual) it states to check the suspension every 6,000 miles. And correct anything you find worn at the time of the inspection is an understanding.

They do not state the procedure to follow to check the suspension. Nor does it define what is too worn to make it to the next 6,000-mile check. If you visually look from the "outside," the odds are favorable the first 6,000 miles of the trailer's life, you will not find worn nylon bushings to the point of mandating a replacement. There are always exceptions. And I would stay, even if you take it apart, at 6,000 miles, the odds are low of worn through nylon bushing. It then comes down to the inspector to make the judgment call. Will these partially worn bushings make it another 6,000 miles, or do I change all nylon bushings now?

During rebuilds/repairs, the nylon bushings can and do wear through around the 10,000-mile mark from what I have found. Maybe a little more or less. This wear is only seen by taking the equalizer, shackle, and leaf spring pins out and inspecting all of them.

Going by the every 6,000 mile Dexter recommendation, by the time the trailer reaches 12,000 miles accumulated, some of the original nylon bushings have worn through, and you have steel on steel wear on some of the spring pins, leaf spring, and equalizer. To inspect this, you have to pull all the spring, shackle, and equalizer pins out and look at the bushings. During this removal inspection, you will find if shackle or leaf pin serrations have slipped and worn on the shackle links or hangers, and you will find if spring pins are wearing into the leaf spring eyes or the equalizer. The center pin on the equalizer is often the first bushing to wear through as the range of motion is the greatest at that location.

If you do not address the bushing wear at the 12,000 mile check, things start wearing even faster and the pins, spring eyes, hangers, equalizers and shackles start a down hill ride to eventual failure of not corrected.

The nylon bushing design fits Dexter's every 6,000-mile inspection, and if you correct worn parts at every check, the system will work as designed without failing.

The original nylon bushings do work; they do not hold up to what is wanted or needed on a travel trailer/5th wheel, in my opinion. They can be made a lot better without a lot of added cost as OEM. I see some campers' brands now offering bronze bushings, wet bolts, and heavy-duty shackles as a new camper's selling feature, which is a start to getting better. As long the owner greases them approximately every 2,000 miles, the bronze bushings greatly extends the suspension's life.

To take bronze bushings to the next level of longevity, they need consistently formed spring eyes the entire full length of the bronze bushing with a genuine round hole 100% of the time. My T310SR is close to having all good spring eyes, but not all of the eyes are correctly formed. With the leaf spring eyes not formed correctly or the bushing's full length unsupported in the spring eye, the bronze can and does crack in the unsupported area.

How many camper folks do the 6,000 mile tear down suspension inspection if they are on nylon bushings? Or even know to do it?
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