Towing with a 2002 GMC Envoy

[JohnB]

Tommie,

Glad to help anytime.

OK, well at least you now came to a conclusion and understand why. When you get to selecting one, let's talk again so you get all the right parts for it if you are buying it. Did you get a chance to talk to the repair shop yet?

Thanks

John

[Thomascine]

Not yet. I have a bit more work to do yet. The weather has been unpredictable, that and scheduling conflicts, Amy and I have not gotten together to get the corner trim back on. We work together and may take a day off and just get it done. Maybe on one of those 50ish degrees days. Plus a friend had some diamond plate left over so now I need to take the front bottom aluminum siding off to use as a template to cut and drill holes in the diamond plate. It is too thick, IMO, to put over top of the siding and have the trim fit properly unless anyone has any ideas. After that, seven red clearance lights and dicor all around. Just in case we have more precipitation while it is at the trailer shop. Even though I have gotten a lot accomplished, it still seems like there is so much more to do.

Thanks,
Tommie

BTW - I do like the WD that has the bars that mount on top. I think that would be better for me. The trailer does seem kinda low to the ground. Not looking forward to having to crawl around under there to finish the rust treatment.

[JohnB]

Hi Tommie,

On the diamond plate, since you have the corners off, ideally deal with the pain of taking the lower siding off and put the diamond plate on directly. I'm assuming the thickness is around 1/16"? If so it should push right into the siding joint at the top and seal up good. Remember to caulk that joint before you insert the sheet. I used butyl caulk but dirco could work too. Just butyl might be easier to ever get out later on it the sheet had to come off.

If you need to cut the plate, this blade works really well in a circular saw. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The EAZ lift hitch with the bars on top, I'm assuming that is the one you were talking about. The 400# one may take some hunting to find it available for quick sale. I only dug a little ways into finding one. That product in any size is fairly new. I'm not saying it is bad, just new to the market and finding them may be more a hunt.

Any of the ones I linked should work out with good clearance on your low riding trailer.

Thanks

John

[Thomascine]

Good morning,

I am leaning towards this one:
The Reese Steadi Flex 250- 400# rated WD hitch. https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Dist...ese/66557.html

I looked at the specs for the Camco Eaz Lift but they did not get good reviews and they only have a 90-day warranty. The main complaint was the ball size, not the standard 2". Now if the ball can be switched out easily and economically, it may be worth a try. Great price. I am over budget so I now have to watch spending because the breaks still need to be done.

Thanks,
Tommie

[JohnB]

Hi Tommie,

I fixed your Etrailer link. Something was not firing off right with it. I edited and pasted in an updated link, it now seems to be working.

Since you are looking at this Reese 400# system, we need to check a few things. Please see if you can get this info.

1. The diameter of the ball coupler on the camper. It will take either a 2" or 2 5/16" tow ball. Your camper might be a 2" being as small and old as it is. If you cannot tell, let me know I'll get a few pics on how to measure and tell. I'm assuming you do not have a spare tow ball around and need one. If you have one you want to reuse, let me know the shank diameter (there diameter of the threaded part) and the stamped rating on the top.

2. Need the dimensions of the trailer A frame rails. I need a height and the width of the A frame rail. We need to check that the L brackets that bolt on will fit. They have 2 sizes. Take a few pics of the A frame and the LP tanks, side view and top view. See pic.


3. The hitch drop shank check. You stated the camper had a ball height of 16 1/2" (ground to inside of the ball coupler with the camper level on level ground) Now we need the truck receiver height. Find a level spot. And if possible put some weight in the cargo area of the truck that would be close to what you may take camping. Need these dimensions. See pic.


Truck empty.
Distance from the ground straight up to the top inside of the 2" square pin box on the truck receiver (the truck hitch)

Truck loaded with some camping gear weight or simulated weight if you have some.
Distance from the ground straight up to the top inside of the 2" square pin box on the truck receiver (the truck hitch)

A close guesstimate on the weight of the cargo in the back would also help.

I check that these all fit right with that WD hitch.

Thanks

John

[Digmenow]

Originally Posted by Thomascine

Good evening,

Time to start thinking about getting our Sunny ready to tow.



Thanks for all the help.

Tommie

Here's a breakdown of everything that your TV came with via this online GM RPO code lookup. Unfortunately, the site seems to cut off some of the beginning of some of the descriptions but you can usually figure out what it means or else you can google the rpo code individually and someone, somewhere has discussed it.

The code for the trans cooler is usually "KNP" which I don't see on your sticker so you might consider adding an aftermarket unit. On the plus side, "GT4" means you win the final drive ratio lottery with a 3.73 rear. Better towing capacity but lower fuel economy . Still, I think we all agree that one is a win! The 150 Amp alternator (KG4) is no slouch either.



RPO Code Explanation/Description
AJ1 INDOW TINTED DEEP, ALL EXCEPT W/S AND DRS
AJ7 ESTRAINT SYSTEM SEAT, INFLATABLE, DRIVER & PASS, FRT & SIDE
AM9 SPLIT BACK, FOLDING
AP9 VENIENCE
AU0 OCK CONTROL, ENTRY REMOTE ENTRY
AXP NT POSITION, MULTI-PURPOSE VEHICLE
B30 COVERING FLOOR CARPET
B32 COVERING FRT FLOOR MATS, AUX
B33 COVERING REAR FLOOR MATS, AUX
CJ3 HVAC SYSTEM AIR CONDITIONER FRT, MAN TEMP CONT, AUX TEMP CONT
C49 DEFOGGER RR WINDOW, ELECTRIC
C5N GVW RATING 5,750 LBS
DAY PLANT CODE MORAINE, OH, USA
DF5 MIRROR I/S R/V LT SENSITIVE, COMPASS, O/S TEMP DISPLAY
DK2 MIRROR O/S LH & RH, REMOTE CONTROL, ELECTRIC, HEATED, COLOR
DK7 CONSOLE ROOF INTERIOR, CUSTOM
EVA VT, EVAP EMISSION REQUIREMENT
GT4 AXLE REAR 3.73 RATIO
JF8 BRAKE VAC POWER, 4 WHL DISC
KG4 GENERATOR 150 AMP
K34 E CONTROL AUTOMATIC, ELECTRONIC
LL8 ENGINE GAS, 6 CYL, 4.2L, MFI, L6, ALUM, DOHC, GM
M30 TRANSMISSION AUTO 4 SPD, HMD, 4L60-E, ELECTRONIC
NC1 EMISSION SYSTEM CALIFORNIA, LEV (NOTE: NOT TO BE USED AFTER 2007 MDL YR FOR DOMESTIC NAO PASS CAR & LT DUTY TRUCKS)
NC7 ION OVERRIDE FEDERAL SYSTEM
NG1 CERTIFICATION EMISSION, GEOGRAPHICALLY RESTRICTED REGISTRATION FOR VEHICLES UP TO 6,000 LBS GVW 9 2 0
NP5 STEERING WHEEL LEATHER WRAPPED
N40 STEERING POWER, NON-VARIABLE RATIO
N79 WHEEL SPARE FULL SIZE, STEEL
N80 WHEEL 17 X 7, ALUMINUM, PREMIUM
QTM TIRE ALL P245/65R17-105S BW PE/ST TL ALS
RYJ CARGO AREA, RETRACTABLE
SLM SALES PROCESSING STOCK ORDERS
TB4 BODY EQUIPMENT LIFT GATE (MANUAL)
TFE INCENTIVE COMMITMENT PLUS
T61 LAMP SYSTEM DAYTIME RUNNING
T96 FOG, FRT
T98 ING VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER
UA6 THEFT DETERENT SYS
UE1 COMMUNICATION SYSTEM VEHICLE, G.P.S. 1
UG1 R GARAGE DOOR, UNIVERSAL
UP0 RADIO AM/FM STEREO, SEEK/SCAN, AUTO REV MUSIC SEARCH CASS, CD, AUTO TONE, CLOCK, ETR
U84 ANTENNA BODY SIDE WINDOW, RADIO
VXS LE COMPLETE
V40 SION OPTIONS ULTRA SEATING PKG, POWER PASS
V73 VEHICLE STATEMENT USA/CANADA
YC5 CONVENIENCE PKG DECOR LEVEL #5
YD3 (BASE EQUIP) FOR SCHEDULING GVW PLATE
YD5 G FRONT BASE EQUIPMENT
YD6 G RR, BASE EQUIPMENT
ZW7 CHASSIS PACKAGE PREMIUM SMOOTH RIDE
ZY1 COLOR COMBINATION SOLID
Z88 MARKET BRAND GMC
1SB PACKAGE OPTION 02
11U PRIMARY COLOR EXTERIOR, PEWTER MET (02)
11U PRIMARY COLOR EXTERIOR, WHITE (02) OPEL
11U PRIMARY COLOR EXTERIOR, ARCTIC WHITE (02) OPEL
11U PRIMARY COLOR EXTERIOR, HERON WHITE (02) HOLDENS
11U PRIMARY COLOR EXTERIOR, ALPINE WHITE (02) HOLDEN
6SJ COMPONENT FRT LH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (6SJ)
7SJ COMPONENT FRT RH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (7SJ)
8EX COMPONENT RR LH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (8EX)
9EW COMPONENT RR RH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (9EW)
92H TRIM COMBINATION CLOTH, MED DK PEWTER (H) (97)
92H TRIM COMBINATION CLOTH, MED DK PEWTER II/VERY DK PEWTER, (H) 92I INTERIOR TRIM MED DK PEWTER (97)
92I INTERIOR TRIM MED DK PEWTER II (99)
92I INTERIOR TRIM SHALE/PEWTER (I) (97)
92I INTERIOR TRIM MED PEWTER II/VERY DK PEWTER

[JohnB]

Dig, did you enter every code by hand or did you figure a way out how to dump them in all at once and get a printout of all in that organized read out?

Thanks

John

[Digmenow]

You can follow my link and enter all of the rpo codes into the box at one time as long as each code is followed by a comma. Hit submit and they all pop up at once. If you make a mistake (maybe enter a period instead of a comma or enter a code wrong) you can use the back button and fix any incorrect entries. Then hit submit again and the whole thing appears again.

I just copied and pasted after that.

[Thomascine]

Wow! Thanks Dig! Very much appreciated! I used the code to look up the axle ratio and color but had no idea what the other codes meant. The gas mileage is not that bad. I little lower than the Escape but not a huge difference.

Thanks again!
Tommie

[Thomascine]

Good evening,

I am finally getting around to this.

Originally Posted by JohnB

Since you are looking at this Reese 400# system, we need to check a few things. Please see if you can get this info.

1. The diameter of the ball coupler on the camper. It will take either a 2" or 2 5/16" tow ball. Your camper might be a 2" being as small and old as it is. If you cannot tell, let me know I'll get a few pics on how to measure and tell. I'm assuming you do not have a spare tow ball around and need one. If you have one you want to reuse, let me know the shank diameter (there diameter of the threaded part) and the stamped rating on the top.
I believe it is a 2" since it was towed with 2 vehicles that are equipped with a 2" tow ball with no issues.
The tow ball on the Envoy is a 2". I actually had to buy one because the ball mount did not have one.
1" shank diameter
2" shank length
6000lb capacity


2. Need the dimensions of the trailer A frame rails. I need a height and the width of the A frame rail. We need to check that the L brackets that bolt on will fit. They have 2 sizes. Take a few pics of the A frame and the LP tanks, side view and top view. See pic.
Height = 3.75"
Width = 1.75"




3. The hitch drop shank check. You stated the camper had a ball height of 16 1/2" (ground to inside of the ball coupler with the camper level on level ground) Now we need the truck receiver height. Find a level spot. And if possible put some weight in the cargo area of the truck that would be close to what you may take camping. Need these dimensions. See pic.
Ball height = 16.5"

Truck empty.
Distance from the ground straight up to the top inside of the 2" square pin box on the truck receiver (the truck hitch)
With just my regular day-to-day stuff = 19.25


Truck loaded with some camping gear weight or simulated weight if you have some.
Distance from the ground straight up to the top inside of the 2" square pin box on the truck receiver (the truck hitch)
Had to simulate weight = 18.75"


A close guesstimate on the weight of the cargo in the back would also help.
Not sure of what we will really take other than clothes, spare propane take, bottle water and maybe some food. Small appliances (one cup coffee maker, small crock pot, slower cooker/skillet), dishes, eating utensils, TV and bedding are inside the camper. No clue what else we will be taking.

Hopefully, I answered everything. If more info is needed, please let me know. Thanks for all the help.

Tommie

[JohnB]

Hi Tommie,

I will review the info and report back. You are in a drop shank setup. Now to see if the standard shank that comes with the Reese hitch will work to drop enough.

There is one thing you will need to check, the 2" tow ball. Technically a 2" tow ball will fit inside a 2 5/16" ball coupler of a trailer. And I have seen some people not realizing it, tow 2 5/16" ball coupler trailers with it. By pure good fortune, nothing happened but given the right circumstances it could of turned out really bad. It happened to one of my friends who borrowed a trailer and took off with it. The ball fit inside and he did not know any better to even see how the fit was. He towed a 6,000# trailer about 50 miles with it until myself and anther buddy asked him, Did you get the 2 5/16" draw bar in the storage shed to go with the trailer? He said no, I used the one in my truck I always use... it's a 2". Then he realized what he did.

Try this, take the 2" known tow ball you have now (I thought you said you had one). Place it up in the coupler and latch it in. Then push/wiggle the tow ball fully left to right and front to back. Not pivoting or rocking it, but the threaded shank to stay vertical and just move tow ball back and forth in the coupler. Try getting a feel for the movement. Can even try to measure it.

If the ball coupler has approx 1/16" to 1/8" of an inch total clearance/play/movement around the tow ball, then it is a 2" coupler. You can tell by the amount of movement if it moves that small amount.

If the 2" tow ball moves a lot, like 1/4" to 3/8" then the coupler is a 2 5/16" coupler and not a 2". This is the wrong setup.

There is a major difference in feel of the 2" ball in a 2" ball coupler opposed to a 2" ball in a 2 5/16" coupler. If you try it, you can easily feel that major of a difference without a problem.

I'll get back to you on the shank dimensions.

Thanks

John

[JohnB]

By the way, the diamond plate and the A frame painting looks good. Good job

[Thomascine]

Thanks JohnB. I can't take credit for the frame. The PO had painted the entire TT including the A-frame and bumper. The paint on the body is chipping and peeling.

In regards to the coupler, I verified that it is 2". The ball only moves about 1/16" to 1/8" but not more than that. If any additional info is needed, please let me know.

Thanks a bunch.

Tommie

[JohnB]

Hi Tommie,

Good news you confirmed the 2" ball coupler. That task is done. Now to the WD hitch.

I did some digging and figuring for you. As I thought the camper is such a low riding camper it needs a seperate longer drop shank then what comes with any hitch kit I can find.

Here is how I came up with the numbers. You need a drop shank that will lower the trunnion hitch head at least 4" down (can be a little more) to allow the camper to tow level. This includes a common 1" lowering (squat) to the back of the truck when you have camping gear in the truck and the WD hitch adjusted.


In pure theory the drop is 4 1/8" however the truck squat may vary and if the truck drops lower than the 1" then that will also require more drop. Again this is for everything to be perfectly level. The camper being nose down by 1/2" to most 3/4" is still OK so 4" for a drop shank is a good number.

The issue is all the kits I can find in any brand are either 2" drop shanks or the most be a 3" drop shank which is not enough. They supply a shank that fits most trailer and trucks. Your truck is not that different but the 16 1/2" ball height on the camper and being a 400# WD hitch is not the most common.

What this means is, another part to buy to make the WD hitch work. You mentioned the Reese brand WD hitch so I'll repeat the links of what you need.

The 400# tongue weight Reese Steadi Fast https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Dist...ese/66557.html

A 2" tow ball with 1" dia. shank, 7,500# pull rating if you do not have one. https://www.etrailer.com/Hitch-Ball/...ady/63845.html

A 4 3/4" drop shank (2" square) for a trunnion style WD hitch to lower the hitch head down to level out the camper.
https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...s/RP63971.html

That shank raises the money $122 but I cannot find it much cheaper. I did call Etrailer today to check if they could swap out the shank in the kit for the longer one. They said since the kit has such a short one they really cannot sell it and Reese does not offer a different kit with a longer one. You may be able to sell the extra kit shank on Craigslist or save it and sell it with the camper if you trade the camper some day. But keep the longer drop shank for the next camper.

I looked at Husky, Fastway, Curt, and Equal-I-zer, and all of them too only offer the short shank on their trunnion bar WD hitch kits.

This should get you setup to use a WD hitch with the camper. I would be concerned about using a 600# rated system with the small A frame on the camper. The 600# WD hitch is a little cheaper but not by much. It is a little more popular.

If you can find a good used 2" square, 4 or 5" drop shank for a trunnion bar hitch, that can save you some funds. There are many times on Craigs list. If you find one and your not sure it is the right one, post the add and we can check for you. And maybe your hitch installer may have a used one too.

Let me know if you need more on this. Glad to help.

Thanks

John

[Thomascine]

Thank JohnB.

Will this one work?

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...rt/C17122.html

I checked Craigslist. Nothing there yet. It appears that the WD hitch is no longer on sale so I may wait a little bit to see if it goes on sale again. In the meantime, I will continue to look for the shank.


Thanks,
Tommie

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Thomascine

Thank JohnB.

Will this one work?

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...rt/C17122.html

Hi Tommie,

Yes that Curt shank will work. It is a good brand and actually has more adjustment holes then the Reese, a good thing. Reese/Drawtite use to make one just like that but no longer offers it. The Curt has 1 1/4" hole spacing just like the Reese hitch head. And it trips their $99 free shipping offer. It is all steel and weighs a good shipping cost.

Thanks

John

[Thomascine]

Woohoo! The shank for the WD hitch finally came in today, after 3 weeks of waiting. Maybe now I can get my Sunny to the trailer shop. I didn't realize how heavy the WD hitch and shank was going to be. How does this factor into how much I will be able to carry/tow?

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Thomascine

Woohoo! The shank for the WD hitch finally came in today, after 3 weeks of waiting. Maybe now I can get my Sunny to the trailer shop. I didn't realize how heavy the WD hitch and shank was going to be. How does this factor into how much I will be able to carry/tow?

Yes, WD shanks weigh a lot compared to a hollow weight carrying draw bar. I went back and looked up your truck weights and rear axle capacity. Here http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tml#post141760

The hitch head and the WD shank go against the truck ratings, not the hitch or tongue weight of the camper. That said, when you bolt the hitch head onto the hitch shank, that heavy shank just got heavier...

As long as you keep the gear in the back of the truck close to the estimates we came up with, the added weight of the WD shanks and hitch head will fit in your truck limits. You are close to the limits but not over. Just be careful to not over do it on camping gear in the back of the truck.

Once you make it to the campground with your camper and you are having a great time, we really to need to hear how it went... Your "project" over the last year is a testament to sticking with it for the long haul. Your doing great!!!

[Thomascine]

Wow, wow, wow!!!

I dropped the Sunny off at the trailer shop yesterday for state inspection and installation of the weight distribution setup. They called today to say for inspection it only needs the break away switch, which I knew. Apparently, the brakes are working. So no surprises, yet. Not sure why the previous owner cut the wires. I am having them check the bearings too. I should be able to pick her up on Thursday.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Tommie

[JohnB]

Wow, that's great!!! Let the good times roll!