Sunline Camper Actual Loaded Tongue/Pin Weights

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by icecreaman

I like to thank everyone for replying to my inquiry. Now to further complicate things. I checked on NADA and they said the weight is 3835. I am really wondering what the correct weight is. Would NADA be a correct source on the weight? If so, do you think my Jimmy would be able to pull it? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Tom

Hi Tom,

The best source to start with at this point short of hauling the camper to the scales, is the Sunline weight tag inside the camper. Can you take a picture of it and post? There are several ratings on that sticker and it can sometimes be confusing what they mean until you know how they are presenting it.

See here for mine as an example. Mine is in a totally different league than yours as it is a bigger camper, but it lists certain declared weights the day it left the Sunline. Your sticker being an older camper may look different but it has about the only trusted source at this point. Nada is only a guide and not specific to your VIN camper.



Look for a sticker that has some kind of weight ratings on it in your camper and take a pic of it or at least write down the numbers and the words next to it and post them and we can help explain what they mean. They "usually" put the sticker in a kitchen or bath cabinet door. Open them all up and look for it.

The 5,500# number you found does not seem to fit correctly unless that is an actual GVWR (note the R at the end) and the make up of your camper does not fit the 1994 catalog standards. Again back to a pic of the sticker really helps here.

Unfortunately, your Jimmy is not going to work in this situation with a loaded camper or even very far or long with an empty camper. Once we know the weight sticker we can help explain to you how and why this is. I know this leaves you with a, what did I get myself into... however we want to make sure you learn and understand how we came to this decision so you can tow safe and help yourself on how to correct and get out of this problem. That particular camper is just too much for the Jimmy.

Let us know the weight numbers and we can talk better on how this all works.

Hope this helps

John

[henryj]

Hi Tom,

It's a little tricky helping you without knowing more of your situation re camping style and details on the Jimmy as well as the info JohnB is asking for. We appreciate your enthusiasm in wanting to get into a lifestyle we all enjoy very much and feel your pain at having been taken advantage of. Reading between the lines of your initial post we can see that your gut has some concerns too and you're hearing similar responses from other members.

First, regarding the weight: Sunline built several classes of campers. According to the 94 brochure, which you can download from the files tab at the top of this page, the 2370 is a 7000 lb. class trailer with a dry weight of 3835 lb. and a dry tongue of 565 lb. These weights should be correct and I don't understand why the front sticker, which should be the be all and end all says 5500 lb. Could you post a photo of that sticker? Sunline did build some 5000 lb. Saturns, and later, 5000 lb. Solaris, but your post clearly states Solaris 2370 and that is a 7000 lb. trailer unless the factory made a very strange mid-year production change to a lighter chassis.

The dry weight of 3835 lb. is useful only for the factory as a reference point to compare to other models and to calculate the CCC--cargo carrying capacity. It is meaningless to an owner because the dry weight is the weight of a base trailer with no options, water, propane or batteries, each of which can add several hundred lb. to make up a "wet weight", but still does not include any owner added food, dishes, clothes, water, etc. Then, the real camping weight will climb by another 1000 lb., depending of course on how much stuff you have to tote along. My best guess is that your 2370 towed off the dealer's lot will weigh 4300 lb. Ready to head out on your first camping trip, even with no water, it will be at least 5000 lb. How big is your family?

Second, tow ratings, the most misunderstood number in RV'ing: Tow rating, despite what it says, does not actually measure what you can tow. It is best used for comparing tow vehicles and for quickly eliminating trailers too heavy for the truck. Like the dry weight of a trailer, tow rating is measured with a bare bones, no options, base model with a full gas tank and a 150 lb. driver. You might not like that, but that's the standard and that's the way everybody does it so it is a level playing field and yields a useful number for comparing different trucks, but that's all. The correct interpretation of tow rating is that it is not only the weight of the trailer you want to pull, but also the weight of everything loaded into the trailer and into the truck--people, dog, cats, beer, bikes, you name it. The tow rating is everything extra that truck has to move whether it is attached to the hitch or loaded into the cab or bed.

I won't go into a long discussion on GVWR, GAWR etc. except for GCWR. All of these are important numbers and your truck and trailer should stay within these factory published limits. GCWR--gross combined weight rating--is important because it actually includes the tow rating, but instead of being a fuzzy number that advertizers love to brag about, it is the real limit determined by the engineers who designed the truck taking into account the strength of the engine, chassis, transmission, suspension, brakes and rear axle. I don't know what the GCWR is for your Jimmy, but for a similar 2001 it is 7500 lb. with a 3.08 axle, 8000 lb. with a 3.42 and 8500 lb. with 3.73 axle. As you might guess from the "combined weight rating", GCWR is the maximum weight permitted for your Jimmy plus the trailer plus all the stuff loaded into both. I'm guessing your Jimmy--is it a 4 dr. 4x4?--weighs around 5000 lb. If so, you will exceed the GCWR even if the 2370 "only" weighs the published factory dry weight, which, of course, is impossible.

Plan A: if possible, spring for a newer 1/2 ton like a 2001+ GM 5.3L with 3.73 axle and tow package.

Plan B: Put the trailer on a seasonal site for a year or two while you save up for a stronger truck. There are some very fine seasonal parks that yield the full camping experience with good company and friendship around the campfire. You get almost all of the RV lifestyle giving up only the ability to travel around to different parks. The 2370 is a really nice floor plan and I can see why you found it attractive.

Plan C: Try to get your money back, even threaten lawsuit and reporting to the RVDA. This won't get you the lifestyle you want nor will it get you past the problem that the Jimmy is best suited for towing a pop up or light hybrid.

Come back with the info JohnB is looking for, fill in the pieces about which Jimmy you have, family size and where you want to go, and let him help you to see what the possibilities and options are.

Good luck,
Henry

[jhorne05]

Hope im not treading on slippery slope, 09 chevy 4x4 crew cab , factory tow upgrade trans , gearing, solaris t2475,
Any info would be excellent, as we are new

[jhorne05]

Also upgraded suspension, thinking about going to load range d for tv, already going to load range e for tt

[jhorne05]

Suspension upgrade was on the truck

[luvrque]

Originally Posted by jhorne05

Hope im not treading on slippery slope, 09 chevy 4x4 crew cab , factory tow upgrade trans , gearing, solaris t2475,
Any info would be excellent, as we are new

Hi Slade,
What is the size and HP of your truck engine ?
How about the rear axle ratio ?

[jhorne05]

Right at 300 cu in , just at 300 hp , ratio 3.2.... was considered work truck tow options, ratio for the job

[jhorne05]

Need brake controler

[jhorne05]

Have to look at Chevy info again think I might be off on recelection on that ratio, info was truck specific according to info optioned for heavier towing than standard model , all tow options less only the brake controler

[jhorne05]

Got to locate screen shot of page for exact ratio, just called dealer he said standard ratio is 3.42 , will look for exact info on truck , currently packing moving at end of month

[Fletch77]

Hi there, I am new here, this is a great forum. After many months of looking we have found and fell in love with our new to us 2005 T2499. The question I have is that as you see I have a 2003 Dodge Dakota 4x4 with a 4.7 v8,5 Speed Automatic trans, 3.55 rear end, trans cooler, load leveling shocks, with weight distribution hitch, will this truck pull this trailer okay or do I need to upgrade to a bigger truck, we plan to mostly stay in Michigan when camping, any suggestions would be helpful.

[JohnB]

Hi Fletch,

First off, congrats on your new coach! And welcome to Sunline Owners Club. We had a 2004,T2499 and loved it too. We ended up getting a bigger one with the same floor plan. The T310SR.

Now to you truck and the T2499. As a fellow camper I'll give you a friendly heads up. This is going to be a problem. The T2499 has the highest loaded tongue weight of most any Sunline 7,000# GVWR camper. With just the LP tanks filled and battery, no camping gear and no on board water, the tongue weight weighs in around 800#.

We have had only one club member with a T2499 come in at that 800# the way he camped. It was unique as he had almost nothing in the front cargo area or bed room very much. The rest of us who have weighed and reported on them where in the 1,000# to 1,200# range once loaded with camping gear.

Your Dakota does not have the rear axle, springs and tires to hold up the loaded tongue weight even with weight distributing hitch.

For this camper model, and to stay inside the tow vehicles manufacture ratings, you really want at a minimum, to have a 1/2 ton truck with enough rear axle and GVWR capacity to handle that heavy loaded tongue weight. This generally is a 1/2 ton pick up with the right rear axle setup and lighter truck bed loads. A 1/2 ton SUV might make it if the truck is stripped in weight. The 1/2 ton has to be watched very closely to fit.

In the 3/4 ton area, most any of them will work pending what is in the truck. The 2500 Suburban, the Ford Excursion SUV's are not a problem. And most any 3/4 ton pickup or Van can do a fine jog. Again just have to watched what is in the truck bed. They are not invincible.

Your Dakota will also have rear axle and tranny issues long term pulling the weight and wind resistance of that 8 foot wide, 9 1/2 foot tall brick as we call it.

We are here to help and many of us have been in your spot before. Fell in love with the camper to later find out your truck has some issues. I myself was in that boat long ago and I had a lot more truck then then your Dakota.

Let us know how we can help you through this. There are no dumb questions and we really want to help get you into a safe towing setup and educate along the way.

Best of luck and happy camping in your new sunny.

John

[Fletch77]

Thank you JohnB

[Jim McDonald]

Hi,
A couple of questions. I will be towing a 2003 T 1950 with a 2006 Nissan Titan. Can I safely tow it without sway bars?. Also, should I close the propane valves and turn off the refrigerator, water heater, etc, before towing? Thanks for your comments.

Jim

[JohnB]

Hi Jim,

A 2003 T1950 may end up having a loaded tongue weight of 500 to 550#. Maybe more (600 to 650#) pending how much cargo you put up front of the camper. And then there is truck bed weight for more camping stuff which can be behind the rear truck axle. This much weight on the back of a soft sprung PU truck could be an issue without a weight disturbing hitch. The front end can be too light affecting steering and the truck receiver may not be up to the task in weight carrying mode. Also need to keep track of the rear axle loads.

Look on the back of your truck on the receiver for a sticker. There should be 2 ratings, weight carrying and weight distributing. Looks like this. This is the one off my F350 before I upgraded it. You can see even on this large of a truck, it is only rated fro 500# in weight carrying mode. Note: this is just the receiver hitch part, not anything else on the truck.


I have not dug into the older Nissan's that much but know some of the older ones may only have 350# weight carrying receivers. I thought 2006 maybe the 1st year Nissan made the PU's bigger so they may have upped some things. If there is no sticker in the back, look on the owners manual.

What bed size and cab configuration do you have? I can dig to see if I can find anything on line with you.

If the receiver had a weight disturbing rating, will be the higher rating, adding a weight distributing hitch can make the truck ride a lot better, not push the rear axle loads so high and help get back some weight on the front that was lost from towing on the ball making the truck more stable. See what you have and report back we can see more then.

Hope this helps

John

[Jim McDonald]

Good morning John,
Many thanks for your well-thoughtout reply. I've not towed a travel trailer in many years: your comments bring many things back to mind. I've checked my Titan specs as you suggested...maximum trailer weight is 7,400, tongue load 740 so it appears I'm in good shape. I've made an appointment with a full service hitch/towing company that will review my set-up just to be certain.
Thanks Jim

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Jim McDonald

...maximum trailer weight is 7,400, tongue load 740

Hi Jim,

Just a heads up so it does not trip you up, the 740# tongue weight rating, that "sounds" like it is "with" a weight distributing (WD) hitch. There are normally 2 ratings,

Weight carrying = dead weight and no WD hitch (lower number)

Weight distributing = A WD hitch is installed (higher number)

While it is not totally impossible for to Nissan to install a 740# weight carrying receiver hitch, it is not common at all on a 1/2 ton truck. Especially back in 2006. The newer trucks, well yes they keep up'ing the ratings all over. It was common back in 2005ish and older that a 1 ton Dodge dually only had a 500# weight carrying receiver. Put a WD hitch in and you up into 1,200# and above. They could not handle the heavy flexing back then where WD helps stop that

Good luck and anything else you need, just ask away. There are not silly questions here on Sunline Club.

Happy camping in your new Sunny

John

[Jim McDonald]

Hi John,
My hitch set-up has WD (plus sway bar)...seems I'm ok.
Thanks for your info. I'm totally impressed with you and this forum.
Jim

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Jim McDonald

Hi John,
My hitch set-up has WD (plus sway bar)...seems I'm ok.
Thanks for your info. I'm totally impressed with you and this forum.
Jim

Good deal Jim. The WD will help. Thanks for the good words too, much appreciated.

Happy camping in your new Sunny

John

[Campnut]

Hi all, I am upgrading from an '81 Coleman Shanandoah pop up to a '90 Sunline t 1550. Looking through this thread I was wondering how my '96 GMC Jimmy with the 4.3 would handle towing.

Thanks

John