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Old 06-18-2007, 04:38 AM   #1
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New GM Diesel Slated for Trucks

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto...96.A12479.html

General Motors will build a new range of diesel engines at a plant in western New York beginning in 2009.



The new 4.5-liter diesel, which will wear the Duramax label, will deliver class-leading torque, power and refinement, the company says. In terms of environmental benefits, GM says the turbodiesel will boost efficiency by 25 percent while cutting carbon dioxide emissions by 13 percent and nitrogen oxide emissions by at least 90 percent.



In terms of dimensions, the new engine will fit in the same space as GM's small-block gasoline V-8. Integrating the cylinder head exhaust manifolds, cam cover intake manifolds, and narrowing the block made the sizing possible, GM said in a release.



The engine will produce more than 310 horsepower and 520 pound-feet of torque, along with class-leading refinement, the company adds.



The new engine is slated for use in light-duty trucks and the HUMMER H2. It will be compliant with the tougher 2010 diesel emission standards and will meet diesel regulations in all 50 states.
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:00 PM   #2
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I wish someone would come out with a modest diesel for half tons. Say under 200 hp range. All those little coe's from asia have them - they run for ever, sip fuel, and pull like the borax team. Geeze - think of it - a silverado or f150 that can pull 8000 pounds and get a real 26mpg when not towing.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:38 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by joncassino
I wish someone would come out with a modest diesel for half tons. Say under 200 hp range. All those little coe's from asia have them - they run for ever, sip fuel, and pull like the borax team. Geeze - think of it - a silverado or f150 that can pull 8000 pounds and get a real 26mpg when not towing.
Jon,

I heard that Ford might be coming out with a smaller diesel in the F150 for late '08 or '09. I'd sure like to see them actually come through with that. A friend of mine is a diesel mechanic at Cat and said he'd get one of those in a crate for his '97 F150.

On the other hand, I saw a Grand Cherokee CRD on the highway the other day. Maybe DaimlerChrysler (soon to be only Chrysler) will put that in the 1500 Ram too.

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Old 07-11-2007, 11:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joncassino
I wish someone would come out with a modest diesel for half tons. Say under 200 hp range. All those little coe's from asia have them - they run for ever, sip fuel, and pull like the borax team. Geeze - think of it - a silverado or f150 that can pull 8000 pounds and get a real 26mpg when not towing.
Chances are the new engines altho made in the US are really Isuzu engines by design.

Someone needs to do some digging to find out if indeed my postulation is correct. Isuzu as the poster above says has been doing industrial grade diesels all sizes for years now. They are making the 2500 and 3500 now for GM.

GM tried several years ago to build a reliable diesel and had to wind up eating the trucks thru the lemon laws. They gave up and imported Isuzu diesels.

So I too welcome 150 range trucks to run diesels! A good reason to hold off and give them a coupla years to get reliable after they begin production. Never jump the first 2 years. Great way to be stung until the bugs are worked out.
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:19 AM   #5
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A file on partnership

[PDF] THE GENERAL MOTORS SOLUTION TO MEETING THE 2007 DIESEL EMISSIONS ...

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML

The GM Solution. Utilizing our worldwide resources and working with our. diesel engine partners, Isuzu Motors Ltd. and Caterpillar, GM ...

http://www.isuzucv.com/images/engine...sionsBro_GM.pd
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:29 AM   #6
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Various forums for solutions

Edmunds

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ee92032/

Chevrolet Avalanche (16)
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Diesels (26)
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Pickups - Archived Discussions (1037)
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:39 AM   #7
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Diesels on Edmonds Forum

Diesels (26)

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0a974a/

Diesel Questions/Problems in General (non specific makes) 5/29/07 69
Diesels in the News 7/11/07 3333 15
Article Comments - Chasing Cheetahs with Clean Diesel 6/29/07 5
Biodiesel/WVO in HD diesel pickups 7/8/07 15
Any Diesel Light Trucks on the Horizon? 6/28/07 44
Which Diesel Pickup Should I Buy? 6/21/07 59
... EGR, Diesel and Gas 6/21/07 6
DURAMAX FUEL MILEAGE 6/19/07 324
Diesel Pickup Towing Questions 5/9/07 2
Diesel Fuel Economy and chips 5/25/07 230
Diesel cold air intake problem 5/19/07 9
History of the Dodge Sprinter: pre-2004? 5/13/07 2
New V-8 diesel from Toyota ! 5/12/07 4
Engine Rebuild 4/22/07 6
Grand Cherokee CRD diesel 4/20/07 1
does a 95 f250 w a powerstroke have a lift pump 4/17/07 2
Low sulfur fuels 4/15/07 11
New Audi TDI Diesel V12 500 HP 4/3/07 5
Girl with big truck needs help 3/31/07 5
ULSD Diesel Engine Failures 3/31/07 7
How to get better fuel economy w/your diesel 3/27/07 82
What is the future for small diesel pickups 2/21/07 1
4" vs 5" Exhaust 11/19/06 4
Extended Warranty Yes or No?? 10/8/06 12
Year End Sales at Ford, Dodge and GM ???? 7/2/06 7
2005 GMC Duramax used as a Generator? 12/13/05 5
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:42 AM   #8
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Diesel Tundra

New V-8 diesel from Toyota ! by suede Apr 05, 2007 (2:35 pm)

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f12b8d0

Toyota is just revealing a new diesel V8 with compacted graphite iron ( CGI ) that will serve in the new LandCruiser 70-series now from April in Australia. It´s replacing all former engines ang delivering modest 150 kW and 430 Nm of torque with SINGLE turbo. The engine is consuming 21,3 miles/gallon and the cars weight is 7275 pounds.

BUT

The same CGI-block ( first in series from Toyota) will also be seen in the LandCruiser 200-Series in November. Then the engine will feature a DOUBLE turbo and some twisting 200 kW ( 268 hp) and 650 Nm ( 480 lb.f/ft)

The Toyota Tundra is also a hot candidate and the current Tundra in NASCAR har a engine ( petrol) in the same CGI-material

Ford are on the move and will soon show a 4,4.-litre V8 diesel in CGI and dual-turbos and GM that is some 2 years behind will come at the end of 2008 with a similar one. Cleveland will have to hurry to compete before the marketshare is falling.

http://www.4wdcentral.com.au/70seriesdetails.htm
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:51 AM   #9
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Another... plenty of forums for one and all to enjoy

This ought to get most of us started who like research going... The rest is up to what yall dig up. A good starter point is all.

TheDieselPage.com Forums > Other Diesel & Truck > Related Forums Industry News

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/t...splay.php?f=15
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:15 AM   #10
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We have friends who are overseas alot (military). They are anxiously awaiting the Toyota Deisel! Apparently, they are very reliable powerful machines. However, Toyota always were known for thier reliability!
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:34 AM   #11
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Something interesting I learned...

While camping w/ my cousin and her husband (at Topsail Hill, FL) that is a supervisor at the Honda Plant in Ohio... Go Buckeyes!

I learned something new.

He said that one would think that the Japanese car/truck companies are like GM, Ford, and Dodge as far as separate entities. Not so he says. For instance Toyota, Honda, and the other companies own stock in each other.

How is that for a hmmm imagine GM, Chrysler, and Ford owning part of each other's companies.

Ah, now THAT makes sense we both said! Open the hood of a Toyota and a Honda and you have many of the same parts.

We shopped around extensively for a very economical (green if you will ) vehicle for to and from work transport. The 4 Runner and of course Tundra gas hogs.

We chose the Honda Civic over Toyota and the other US car makers because Honda for 2007 offered airbags front and side in their 3rd package up Civic. Altho Toyota said they could get airbags (had to come in off the boat on the car) very few if any ever get shipped to the USA.

Honda buys US tires for instance that helps our economy too. Ours have Goodyears (my dad used to work for GY in Logan, OH). Go Buckeyes!

It just so happens the Honda Civic is preferred as the most economical car balancing price w/ hybrid overprice. One cannot ever overcome the 10K price differential buying a hybrid (any company) vs. a straight gas engine.

So it realllly pays to shop around. I hope I am wisely doing that right now for a travel trailer. Trying to gather as much info to present to my hard sell engie... ain't easy...

Go VOLS!
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:18 AM   #12
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Cars and Diesels

Coming down the road are many car makers going diesel for cars too! I saw that while poking around that diesel site I posted. We had better get up to speed quickly VW has the lead on that.

Now what I want to see is the hydrogen cars getting on board way quicker than projected. Sandia Labs in NM and other govt contractors are working on that. Now what do we have the Arabs do not? Water! and the scientific will if our country gets behind it to push for these.

Also X-10 National Lab (UT / Battele) here in ETN has just been awarded a contract by the feds for ethanol research get that (we hope) going down the road.

As long as we are dependent on the Arabs for crude to make diesel and gas we are all caught.

As I mentioned above in another post, DON'T EVER jump on the first production model of any brand car or truck. In fact wait until the 3rd year. Those on the Tundra forum who jumped on the 5.7 V-8 engine are learning that even Toyota has bugs trotting out a new engine. (They are made in AL). The 4.8 V-8 and trany is still made in Japan and as is the very well proven Lexis engine.

So yes, we are all excited that all the US and foreign truck makers are getting on the lighter duty trucks diesel bandwagon (because of the new mileage improvements from Congress) we have to be careful jumping too soon.

One arena that the US makers still have a lead on is the 250, 350 (2500, 3500) diesel trucks. All have their advantages and disadvantages. Ford's frame is hard to beat, GM's Isuzu engine reliable, and Chrysler's gut wrenching pull toy Cummins...

Go USA!

So I sure hope the American companies get on board quickly to get out a reliable light duty truck w/ a solid, reliable diesel. The Japanese and other countries have us beaten on that (overseas sales only). Whoa be if we don't get on the stick.

This will take labor and management getting together working and on board as "stakeholders" vs. the adversary relationship they have presently. That is killing us in the car market.

We will lose the advantage we enjoy on our 3/4 and 1 Tons in favor of a 1/2 Ton that can pull more for less fuel cost.

Now I shall hush.

Go USA!

(Sorry it's getting closer to football season we Southerners are already gearing our brains up in anticipation of another rousing SEC season)

GO SEC Teams!

Those of you in GA we are depending upon you to knock off FL for us. Good luck us doing that this year (sigh). I sure hope our team returns someday to the National Championship status as in '98.
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:03 PM   #13
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I have a deisel VW Just about 50 mpg on the way to work!
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:05 PM   #14
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Re: Cars and Diesels

Bugbite - I think we are on the same page on the big picture.

I cannot resist adding my 2 cents - I was in the automobile business for twenty years with 3/4 of that time with Ford and most of the rest with Chevy & Nissan (duel dealership) in Metro Detroit. My opinion and a buck will still get you a decent cup of coffee at McDonald's. I just wish some people would think about this issue a little more thoughtfully than I've witnessed at times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugbite

This will take labor and management getting together working and on board as "stakeholders" vs. the adversary relationship they have presently. That is killing us in the car market.

.
Well I have to say GM always has had some pretty grumpy workers. But every automaker executive will tell you the number one reason the US cannot compete is HEALTH CARE COSTS compounded with a huge number of retirees who were promised health care as part of their retirement.

Fact is Japan, Korea, Germany, and the rest of the industrial world have state supported health care and they do not carry the same burden GM, Ford, and Chrysler does. In 2005 GM health care cost was $1500 per car versus $186 for Toyota. I'm not saying government run health care is good or bad but clearly the US makers are at a disadvantage with the current situation.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on car designs and quality but the empirical data points out there is really no significant difference in quality between US makes and imports. Take a good honest look at Consumer's Reports. And while it seems popular to claim that the big three just don't make vehicles that people want to buy saying so kind of belies the fact that GM still sells more cars than anyone else and until last year Ford was in second place. It is fashionable to bash them like they are a national embarrassment and frankly I think a lot of people do that more to justify their decision to buy other makes than because of any first hand experience they have had in the previous decade.

But I have to admit for the life of me I do not understand why the US automakers have such poor memory that they forgot the lessons learned back in the mid seventies to early eighties and did not have a contingency plan to implement for when the inevitable time came when a gallon of gas actually cost more than a gallon of water. Their management is driven by the stockholders and the quest for high profits the next two quarters rather than five or ten years down the road.

That's a problem this country has with more than just the automobile industry. It the number one reason we are still dependent on imported oil.

Jon C
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joncassino
I wish someone would come out with a modest diesel for half tons. Say under 200 hp range. All those little coe's from asia have them - they run for ever, sip fuel, and pull like the borax team. Geeze - think of it - a silverado or f150 that can pull 8000 pounds and get a real 26mpg when not towing.
Jon,

I heard that Ford might be coming out with a smaller diesel in the F150 for late '08 or '09. I'd sure like to see them actually come through with that. A friend of mine is a diesel mechanic at Cat and said he'd get one of those in a crate for his '97 F150.

On the other hand, I saw a Grand Cherokee CRD on the highway the other day. Maybe DaimlerChrysler (soon to be only Chrysler) will put that in the 1500 Ram too.

Jon
2009 for the Cummins in the Ram 1500 is the rumor.4.2L is what is out there. Some of the rumors even have it or the 3.0 from the CRD Grands and Comanders making it to the Wragler also.

Ford has said in the past they will be offering a smaller TD in the F150 on the new body style also, IIRC the F150 redesign will be fore 2008 The Ram is in 2009, and GM for the 1/5 tons is on for 2008, I think. Personally I am more of a MOPAR guy, but I keep eyes on the others also.
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:57 PM   #16
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With yah Jon honest

I have gone over the relative merits of just about all of them. Tundra does indeed have it's problems. It's frame certainly not as stout as a F-150 the Tundra new 5.7 engine not what it could be.

I have to say tho. we have never had a gas American car go as far as we have pushed our (fern jobs) on mileage with 0 problems.

Our Cougar a big disapointment. Now this is unbelievable but I triggered a national recall from Ford (not on purpose) They refused to fix my all but brand new 88 Cougar's catalytic converter. I wrote Ford, I called Ford, even wrote the Pres (like he read it ha) This went on for weeks.

So I got the bright idea, why not call the EPA in Atlanta? Well the lady on the line got madder than I was. She raised heck, I told her all we wanted was for Ford to live up to the warranty that was indeed covered on the converter. Well to make a long story short. The regional Rep. of Ford came to over see our new converter was installed with the new redesign. (Ford knew they had a problem). That was an engineering problem!

The surprise came months after all Thunderbirds and Cougars of 87 and 88 were recalled for the very same refurb. We gave Ford their chance and they blew it. Treatment raw to say the least.

Remember all I wanted was to get my converter replaced. When the defective one went it took all of my spark plugs w/ it. Just lucky the engine didn't get destroyed and catch fire. The Cougar also had other problems... window glass that kept falling out because it was glued in. Unbelievable... Again an engineering problem and cutting corners on quality. Some other annoying stuff.

Getting back to the MERITS of the big 3...

One thing great about the 250x and 350x diesels they are very stable right now. And they last a verrry long time if properly maintained. As well as if not better than Toyotas on the gassers.

Our 1 Ton Toyota light truck is still running (a worker at DH's shop is still running it.) Is a 84. Yes, there was such an animal.

Hard to beat that kind of service.

>>Everyone is entitled to their opinion on car designs and quality but the empirical data points out there is really no significant difference in quality between US makes and imports. Take a good honest look at Consumer's Reports. And while it seems popular to claim that the big three just don't make vehicles that people want to buy saying so kind of belies the fact that GM still sells more cars than anyone else and until last year Ford was in second place. It is fashionable to bash them like they are a national embarrassment and frankly I think a lot of people do that more to justify their decision to buy other makes than because of any first hand experience they have had in the previous decade.<<

No bashing at all. As I explained I have a cousin in FL. She and her husband both retired from GM. Just in time I might add before the benefits were cut. I do hope their good fortune continues in the future.

They are ahead of the boomers for the most part. Seems to me if GM had planned when they were still flush their retirement funds would have been adequate. For instance my DH's plant is required to have x amount over what they even anticipate by the Feds.

Toyota is number 2 now. Ford dropped to 3. Toyota is gunning for GM.

As I explained also I have a cousin in OH's DH working at Honda. We are supporting them also w. our business.

We supported folks out in CA where the Tundra was assembled using labor and some parts there.

Toyota now is a big employer in AL making engines. They do have a problem w/ their new 5.7s.

Lines are being blurred. Of the big 3 of the US now Canada and Mexico sure have profited by outsourcing.

So can American workers make top cars? Check on any comparison site. Honda of OH has a real winner in their Honda Civic. So indeed American workers can indeed make a very good product in assembly.

Oh here is a great improvement Honda made... they went back to chains vs. belts for timing. Hope all the other makers foreign and domestic do that along w/ offering airbags all around. Toyota was a big disappointment. I have to say the quality on the Honda OH had it all over Toyota. I do think Toyota is resting on their laurels.

So the challenge is can American truck makers rise to the occasion and get their diesel light duty trucks out there reliable as rain. Long lasting? They are playing a catch up game unfortunately. The workers need to be "stakeholders" and understand the economics. The company must survive to pay benefits and retirement.

One advantage I cited I found out from the OH Honda Cousin is that the Japanese manufacturers all own a portion of each other's stock. Many components are interchangable.

This makes good sense from a business perspective. Our big 3 need to think differently to compete.

GO USA! I am betting on you! You can rise to the occasion!
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Old 07-13-2007, 02:09 PM   #17
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I've decided to lock this forum after a few emails from concerned members. No politics, please!

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