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Old 09-13-2007, 08:42 PM   #1
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Hitch Experts, Please Help!!!!

I know I've mentioned here before about a little hitch problem my parents have. Well, I'm not comfortable with it at all and I'm posting some pics here to get your "professional" opinions. Normally, I would have touched up the rust spots on this (like I did with mine), but I've let it go in order to watch where the metal might be cracking. Also, sorry for the dirt seen is some of the pics. I cleaned it a little for the pics, but I didn't do a really thorough job. The stuff that appears wet inside the hitch is from me cleaning.

Here's my mom's:



NOTICE HOW THE PAINT IS CRACKED ON THE TOP OF THE SQUARE:




Now, here's some pics with a tape measure held up to it for dimensions. I know the flash reflected off of it and they really didn't turn out very well, so I've typed the dimensions above each pic:

Here's the stretched out height, just shy of 2 1/4":



Here's the unstretched width, about 2 1/16":



Just to compare, here's a pic of the height of my hitch on the '02, which is about 2 1/16" square (so both L & W are 2 1/16"):


To tell you the truth, I was somewhat surprised by how much it was stretched. I knew it was, but not this bad.

Jon
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:50 PM   #2
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Jon,

Have you put a 2x2 drawbar in there and checked to see if it is really stretched and the drawbar can wiggle all over the place?

If you have, and that's the case, I think there is a good case to be made to replace that receiver.

I have recently learned that some factory installed receivers are actually only good up to Class III, especially on newer vehicles. This may or may not explain the stretching in your receiver. The information I heard was specifically about Chevy/GM receivers, but who knows what the other manufacturers are up to in that regard. And, I don't have specific model years for this info either.

I did see the Ford logo on the receiver frame in your pics, so I would also suggest a chat with the local Ford dealer's service desk about the issue. They may have a service bulletin or other info for you.

IMHO, none of us Sunline folks should be towing with anything less than Class IV gear.

My personal choice has always been Reese Class IV (or V) receivers for WD towing, but there are other good aftermarket manufacturers as well. The problem I see is that Ford/GM/Chrysler may not be using high grade towing products in their factory installed towing options instead choosing to manufacture their own receivers these days. Once upon a time, if you specified a factory installed receiver, it came through with Reese or Valley or Hidden Hitch logos on it. Not so these days. And that kinda nibbles at my confidence levels.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:05 AM   #3
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Steve,

We use a standard straight hitch to tow our boat and it really wiggles around. Same with the WD, but that thing is so heavy that it doesn't seem to move as much, but it does.

Whenever I tow the boat, I feel the hitch bouncing up and down as I go over bumps. BTW, the boat is towed for very few miles...about 8 round trip to and from the launch ramp. Otherwise, it doesn't go on the road much. Not to mention, that has so little tongue weight that it shouldn't hurt it.

I do plan to take it to a dealer sometime soon to see what they say, but the vehicle hasn't been at home (it's been stored since mine is at home) and I haven't had time to go. Hopefully next week. I'm towing a trailer this coming Sunday for about 4 hours and I'll report how it goes, hopefully with some pics. It's not a real heavy one, only about 4500 lbs or so (never had it weighed).

It is an '05 model, so they could have cheapened them up. I had heard about those GM hitches failing and there were some real problems. I don't know where I saw it, but I remember seeing pics of a TT that had rolled because the hitch on the GM TV failed.

Gee, I remember the days when we had the old Ford Explorers and had to install the hitches ourselves, and installing a brake controller was a weeklong job!

We always had Draw-Tite hitches back in the day, so I'd probably look into a Draw-Tite/Reese as a replacement. If Ford will replace this with another one though, I'd be glad to try it. A class V hitch shouldn't fail like this, so I'm just assuming this one is defective.

Oh, another note, I have kept a hitch cover on this since new and the cover is a snap in type with a foam seal on it. Not sure if this would matter, but it should help keep water out.

Jon
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Old 09-16-2007, 08:40 PM   #4
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Jon

Sorry this took so long. Just came back from camping for 10 days. Bummer…. Back to work….

Now to your receiver. It is hard to tell from your pic’s being out of focus what is bent and what is not.

I’m assuming this is on your mom’s Excursion. I have a buddy with an EX and I helped him with his WD setup. So I have a little info on the Fords. I have a lot of info on the GM’s but that’s another post.

You will not easily find an aftermarket replacement of the Excursion receiver. Actually I do not know of any after market one listed for an EX other then Ford. No one will take on the liability.

The Ex is so high up off the ground that the receiver is part of a blocker beam design in the event of a rear end crash. The receiver helps protect a small car from sliding under it. Like on the back of a Semi Trailer. It is part of the safety feature of the Ex, special and unique to it.

Crawl under and look, but my buddies Ex receiver is riveted on. No bolts. They made it hard to even think about taking it off.

I do believe the Ex receiver is rated at 1,250# tongue weight in WD mode. This is my buddies problem. He had to manage down to 1,250 pounds and he had to go with a Hensley to keep his 34 foot TT in check. He cannot get his tongue weight up in the 14 or 15% area and even then a Reese DC will not hold his 34 TT. So he went with the Hensley, moved weight around and now manages to the 1,250 limit.

If I’m reading your pic’s right, the pin box is 2 1/16” left to right and 2 ¼” top to bottom out at the mouth area. I cannot tell by your pics that the opening is flared out.

To help show this, and so you can see it, stick a 2” shank in there and take a good focus pic so you can see a true straight 2” shank line in relation to the pin box opening. This may help magnify the flaring to see it. You can even measure the sides and middle then to see the flare

Also if you can, crawl under and look from the back. When in WD mode, the top outside of the pin box and the bottom inside of the pin box take the load. The outside bottom and inside top have air (space) at the ends. Pending how the Ex receiver is made, the rear opening may be stuck inside the receiver cross tube giving it more support and may not be flared like the outside top.

“IF” the outside is actually flared up like you describe, this is a heads up caution. If you are flaring the pin box, something else is not right. Take a straight edge, like a combination square blade (scale) and run it along the inside of the full length of the pin box. It should be a straight line. No bends in the pin box. If the outside is flared open, the pin box inside should show signs of being bent up. The bottom may be following this as well.

The 5/8” pin plays a role here as well. Normally when you lift up on the spring bars the hitch shank pivots on the 5/8” pin, the shank locks on the inside bottom of the pin box and the top outside of the pin box. The 5/8” pin actually is not under WD load in that up direction, normally that is. Go try this on your EX. Stick a shank in there, lift by hand up on the shank and then you can pull out the 5/8” pin. The pin box hole should be in the middle of the shank hole.

If the pin box is flared open, well the 5/8” pin is doing something it normally does not. Unless your pin box hole is really worn the pin can be taking an upward load as well as a pulling load. This may or may not be a problem, but it is something different then normal.

Focus should be now on, well if it is bent, how did it get that way and how can you prevent it even if you replace it with another Ford receiver?

What tongue weight is the Ex carrying?

What size WD bars are you using?

Is the EX what you are using to tow the Toy Hauler with? Toy haulers by design can have real heavy tongues until the toys are loaded.

The Ex has a real soft rear suspension. The WD bars have to really work when you hook up a good size trailer on the Ex. My buddy has proved this. He now has a Helwig sway bar, tried air bags, took them off, and now back to just using the WD bars and the Helwig.

You also mentioned the Ex had a class 5 receiver. If I understood what you said right, No, the Ex does not have a Class V weight rated receiver. You may see a tag on it saying V5. Vesc V5 is a manufacturing standard, not the Class weight rating like Class III, Class IV or Class V.

See here on a pic of my Reese spring bar. This is a 1,200# rated spring bar, made to V5 standards.



And the same V5 rating on a 800# bar


Actually there is no industry standard weight rating for a Class V. Class I to Class IV have pretty much standard ratings for tongue weight and pulling. Class V is something that is heavier then a Class IV and each receiver manufacture rates them differently. They never made the Class 5 an official weight class across the industry. When dealing with Class V, go by what the actual sticker on the receiver says as Reese, Putnam, Curt, Valley, etc. all have different ratings for their style Class V and use different size shanks.

See here for my Class V.


If this was a Reese, it would be called the Tow Beast (Titian) and be setup on a 2 ½” pin box, where the Putnam is a 2” pin box. The ratings also change. Here you can see the VESC V5 rating as well.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:38 PM   #5
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Hi John,

Thanks for your response. I just got back myself after four hours of towing. I was pushing it to get home (I have to get up early tomorrow!) and was doing between 75 and 78 pulling the car hauler. It towed great with no sway at all and 9.7 MPG!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
I’m assuming this is on your mom’s Excursion.
Yes, you are correct.

I took some pics before we left of the WD setup and my mom's Ex. Unfortunately, it doesn't really show the space difference. Because the bars have tension on them, the 2" bar is at the top of the pin box. Note this isn't with the trailer that caused it, but I took the opportunity since I had it hooked up to a trailer with WD.

Anyway, here they are:








Oh, here's the floorplan of our toy hauler so you can see how the weight is distributed. This Ex is the TV that tows it.



Here's the specs on the model:
Model: FS2600
Axle Wt: 5370 lb.
Axles: 2
Hitch Weight: 1080 lb.
GVWR: 11100 lb.
Payload: 4650 lb.
Fresh Water: 150 gal.
Black: 50 gal.
Gray: 50 gal.

I do know the sewage tanks are in front, fresh is over the axles, and 40 gal. of gasoline tanks are behind the axles. We're using a Reese WD hitch and 1200 lb. bars with that. We've also got the air bags, though it doesn't help a whole lot. It makes the whole rig driveable though. Also, from the looks of our front storage area (under the front bed), I'm guessing we're well above 1200 lbs. Those specs are from the WW website, and I'd like to know if that hitch weight is with toys in the back or not.

Jon
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Old 09-17-2007, 08:11 AM   #6
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I just found this:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/18402397.cfm

I know this has nothing to do with the TV hitch, but maybe we need to upgrade to 1400# bars for better stability? I crank up on those 1200#'s with all my might to get them up high enough. I couldn't imagine what 1400's would be like!

I know this model they talk about is ~3 ft. longer, but I'm sure we can get close to 1650 for the tongue weight, or at least exceed 1200#'s. In a perfect world, we need a Hensley with 1400# bars, but I don't see that happening in the near future.

Jon
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1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
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Old 09-17-2007, 09:58 PM   #7
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Jon

Give me a day or so and I can post back to you using your pics. I’ll put some arrows on then to help explain what I am seeing.

I’m not trying to be negative here, really trying to help. Which is what you are asking for in the first place, do you see anything not looking right. I do see some things not set up optimally on your Classic car hauler hitch. Pending your loaded trailer tongue weight, all you may need are some adjustments to get you optimized and then on this setup all is good. It will also help with sway control I noticed on the Classic Car hauler they are 750# bars or so it appears to read on the Drawtite sticker.

So if you have 1,200# bars on the Toy hauler, you must have another set of bars and a different hitch. Do you?

Do you have any of these great pics like this of the Toy hauler hitched up? Same being, the same set of angle of the photos. You have given a lot to work with on the few you took.

Another question, this pic. Just confirming, is this your Mom’s Ex with the stretched pin box in question?


This pic does not look right. The end of the pin box is not touching the shank. The 5/8” pin is taking the upward load of the WD. If you put this same shank in your Ex and lift up on it with the pin in, does the shank touch the top inside of the pin box?

Air bags. Air bags can at times work against you on a WD hitch. They are great on truck slide in campers or 5th wheels. The hitch is suppose to transfer the weight some off the rear axle and transfer it back to the front axle. Ideal is to return the front axle to unhitched weight. And in the process the WD hitch transfers some rear axle weight to the TT axles. If you are running with air bags, well they lift the rear axle but do not help much transfer weight back to the front axle. The rear axle ends up actually having more weight gain as the WD is not working the way it is suppose to. It is not being transferred like the WD hitch normally does when it is all on it's own.

On my buddies Ex, his truck empty and unhitched scaled in at 7,980# GVW, split 3620# front axle and 4,360# Rear. This is a 2005 model V10 with his options set. The Ex like the Suburban, can pull well, but holding up tongue weight, is an issue. The truck runs out of GVWR or GAWR-RR before it will run out of pulling power. The PU’s can hold more tongue weight and pull more trailer as the SUV just plain weighs more. It does not matter which brand SUV.

The 05 V10 4 x 4 Ex has a 8,900# GVWR, a 4,700# GAWR- FRT and a 5,250# GAWR-RR. If I read this chart right. If you do a little math, it does not take much to over run the EX in weights. It can pull heavy, just holding it up is the issue. The 2500 Suburban with the 8.1 big block has the same issue. It can pull heavy, just not hold up a lot.

I happen to have a 2005 Ex spec sheet that might help you. What year is your moms? This spec sheet from Ford is the best I have ever seen put together. Wish GM had one. Let me know the year you have and I’ll email it over.

The spring bars, the receiver, the shank, the entire WD hitch and all axle ratings on the TV should be at or under there ratings. Going to 1,400# bars will not fix the problem if the tongue weight is over 1,250# loaded. The Truck rear suspension ratings may not be able to take it, nor the receiver. The EX, like the 2500 Suburban is made from ¾ ton and 1 ton truck parts, but they have been de-rated along the way by some suspension or frame component.

The 1,080# hitch weight you speced out on the WW, normally is the dry weight as the base model left the factory. I did not have the year so I could not look it up. It may not have all your options in it and it does not have your camping gear in it. It’s amazing what stuff weighs and tongue weight can sneek up on one. I know it did on me until I started weighing things.

If your tongue weight on the Toy hauler is over 1,250# your EX receiver will have issues and so may the rear axle suspension ratings.

A trip to the scales loaded with and with out Toys, all axle by axle may help clear up a lot. It may leave you with an issue of, how do I get there from here, but you will at least know.

And yes, when I was faced with his same situation, we loved our new camper to much and my other ½ ton SUV Tahoe had to go. I do not know if you will be in this same situation, but a trip to the scales tells all. And then you at least know.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:05 AM   #8
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looking at the photos I see three problems that jump right out at me,first is that it appears that the trailer is nose high,second is the upward angle that the spring bars are on,third is it looks like those are 750lb bars which is not enough,stronger bars and some readjustments should stop the box wear.
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:39 AM   #9
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Hi John,

I've tried to answer your questions below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
So if you have 1,200# bars on the Toy hauler, you must have another set of bars and a different hitch. Do you?
Yes, we do have another hitch. Actually, we have a total of five WD hitches, all for different trailers. One is for the car hauler, one is for my trailer, one is a spare that came with my 2251, one is for the toy hauler, and one is the one that we used with our 2653. The hitch used on the toy hauler is a Trunnion style with the 1200# bars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
Do you have any of these great pics like this of the Toy hauler hitched up? Same being, the same set of angle of the photos. You have given a lot to work with on the few you took.
Yes, I do have a couple pics, though not as good. I'll post them at the end.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
Just confirming, is this your Mom’s Ex with the stretched pin box in question?
Yes, it is hers. That is the only one that's towed the toy hauler. It's a '05 V10, 3.73, plus second row capt. chairs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB

This pic does not look right. The end of the pin box is not touching the shank. The 5/8” pin is taking the upward load of the WD. If you put this same shank in your Ex and lift up on it with the pin in, does the shank touch the top inside of the pin box?
Normally, it does touch the top, and it puts pressure on the stretched part. I'm not sure why it doesn't show that in the pic. I'll snap a pic of a hitch in there, but I don't have any at home, so it'll have to wait.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
Air bags can at times work against you on a WD hitch. They are great on truck slide in campers or 5th wheels. The hitch is suppose to transfer the weight some off the rear axle and transfer it back to the front axle. Ideal is to return the front axle to unhitched weight. And in the process the WD hitch transfers some rear axle weight to the TT axles. If you are running with air bags, well they lift the rear axle but do not help much transfer weight back to the front axle. The rear axle ends up actually having more weight gain as the WD is not working the way it is suppose to. It is not being transferred like the WD hitch normally does when it is all on it's own.
I realize the Air Bags aren't the best choice here, but it helps. When we brought it home from the dealer, we cranked up on the bars and the front of the Ex was very light. We had very little steering control and anything that passed us moved the whole rig off the road. Now, with about 70 PSI in the back bags, we have gained back some of that control.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
The 1,080# hitch weight you speced out on the WW, normally is the dry weight as the base model left the factory. I did not have the year so I could not look it up. It may not have all your options in it and it does not have your camping gear in it. It’s amazing what stuff weighs and tongue weight can sneek up on one. I know it did on me until I started weighing things.
Our WW is an '06 model. It is aluminum sided (save some weight), but has the genny option, which is in front of the axles (under refer/bathroom sink). As I said before, the holding tanks are in the front, so we try to travel with the tanks empty and the gas tanks (behind the axles) full to counteract some of the tongue weight. There's also two batteries on the tongue, along with huge LP tanks. I don't know the size, but they're bigger than 30#.

Here's the pics I promised. I'll take some more next weekend like the others when we bring it home.





Jon
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1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:46 AM   #10
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Hi Rich,

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich2500
looking at the photos I see three problems that jump right out at me,first is that it appears that the trailer is nose high
I don't think it was nose high. Maybe a little, but I think I was leaning a little bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rich2500
Second is the upward angle that the spring bars are on
I don't know why they're on such an angle, but if I loosened them at all, they stayed loose when the jack was retracted. I may have the bars a little tight, but I just changed out the clamps this summer to the non-clip kind that came with that set, so I'm not used to what link to put it on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rich2500
Third is it looks like those are 750lb bars which is not enough,stronger bars and some readjustments should stop the box wear.
This trailer hasn't seen many road miles behind the Ex at all. For that matter, it hasn't seen many road miles over the last few years period. I think the 750 bars are plenty for that trailer considering we used to never use any bars with it at all.

Jon
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2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9473.8 (as of 6/18/21)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:05 AM   #11
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John,

Here's a list of the options we do have from the WW website:

http://www.a1warriortrailers.com/wid...al%20Features:


- Deep Cycle Batteries (2)
- Stabilizer Jacks (Front and Rear)
- Onan Marquis Gold 5.5 Generator
- Fuel Pump station, 40 gal., with gauge (20 for pump, 20 for genny)
- Rear Ramp Screen Cover
- Billet Interior and Billet Exterior graphics (also avail. in '06)
- AM / FM / CD Player (Sony®)
- Front Rock Guard
- Spare Tire, Rim, and underbody mount
- Outside BBQ
- Enclosed and Heated Tanks

Jon
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2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9473.8 (as of 6/18/21)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:07 AM   #12
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rich2500 wrote:
Second is the upward angle that the spring bars are on


I don't know why they're on such an angle, but if I loosened them at all, they stayed loose when the jack was retracted. I may have the bars a little tight, but I just changed out the clamps this summer to the non-clip kind that came with that set, so I'm not used to what link to put it on.

looking at the hitchhead it's tilted forward,if it was tilted back some that would make the bars parallel to the trailer frame,actually you would want it tilted so that the bars hang down slightly but when all hitched up they are level to the frame.if i'm correct here you have over 1000lbs of tongue weight you say you used to pull without any bars,could this be when the box got tweeked out of square.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich2500
looking at the hitchhead it's tilted forward,if it was tilted back some that would make the bars parallel to the trailer frame,actually you would want it tilted so that the bars hang down slightly but when all hitched up they are level to the frame.if i'm correct here you have over 1000lbs of tongue weight you say you used to pull without any bars,could this be when the box got tweeked out of square.
Hi Rich,

I think there is a little confusion here. The car hauler doesn't have much tongue weight at all- I'm guessing around 500 lbs. loaded. That was the trailer we used to pull with no bars. The toy hauler is the one with a lot of tongue weight, but those bars are straight. The dealer put that hitch together (though I was right out there helping them) and I know everything is very tight. The car hauler hitch has been adjusted a couple times (due to the axle flip on that), so the bolts aren't as tight as they could be. I need to tighten them some more, but I haven't had the time. I need to go look to make sure all the spacers are on top, the two main bolts are tight, and the bottom adjustment bolt is tight enough to make the head straight.

I'm not as familiar with the maintenance of this particular hitch because it's my Grandpa's. The only trailer of ours that he tows is that car hauler, so his hitch was adjusted for the high ride height and it's exclusively used for that trailer now.

Jon
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2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9473.8 (as of 6/18/21)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:04 PM   #14
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ok Jon you are correct somewhere along the line I got confused,I got what your saying now.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:46 PM   #15
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Jon

I have not forgotten you. Just been busy and still am with work. For the Classic car hauler I will draw on your pics and post back on how to help optimize that setup even though it is not giving you the EX reciever problem. I will point out what Rich is saying and then some. If that hitch is left like it is, sooner or later it will bind up hard in a turn against the snap up bracket.

See here what I'm talking about out of the drawtite instructions.






If you can’t see what I’m referring to in those pics, I’ll custom make them for your hitch. Go here for the total set of instruction on that Drawtite hitch. http://www.draw-tite.com/fitguides/pdf/N7901.pdf

In the case of the car hauler, your frame and snap up bracket height is wide enough you need more then the 5 links under load minimum they recommend as a generic rule. By a quick look at your setup you would need like 7 maybe 8 links under tension to lower the bars down to get out of the bind. AND you would add washers to the head tilt pin on the hitch head to preload the bars back. Ideally you need to re-setup the entire WD setup with the car trailer loaded. And measure fender heights to insure it is setup correct.

I agree that running a trailer on your receiver in weight carrying mode will not cause the upward bend of the pin box. It would cause bending in the other direction. Down. It’s not good to over run the 500# receiver rating, but it would bend the other way in your case. The EX receiver is only good for 500# in weight carrying mode like most all other class 4 hitches.

Here is a tip that will help you greatly with all your trailers. Since you have so many of them. Invest in one of these. Money well spent. Mine cost like $120 delivered to my door. Then you can load all you want at home in your own yard and get tongue weight right. And you know exactly what is going on.

http://www.sherline.com/lm.htm

Air bags and 70 psi. OK I'll crunch some numbers and report back. This weekend while you are taking some pics of the Toy Hauler hitch setup, crawl under the EX and get an approx diameter of the air bags. Like is it 3 inches diameter or what. I can tell you how many pounds of lift they are giving you. And 70 psi is a lot. A 3” air bag at 70 psi provide 495# of force. 2 of them is 990# of lift. A 3 ½” bag is 973# of lift at 70 psi or 1347# on 2 of them.

And if you are really have a minute, measure from the center of the tow ball in the receiver to the center of the rear axle. I can use this to calculate the load being applied to the rear axle and what 70 psi air bags is lifting up at the ball. Just do the best you can with a tape measure. It is most likely in the 65” range for an 05 EX.

The more we dig I think I see some of the issue that might be causing the receiver problem. Or at least I can point you where to go look some more. Your one statement about the EX be real squirrelly, the front end being all over until you added air bags is now adding up. The pics of the hitch hooked up and running the air bags and rear over ahng numbers will help show if my hunch is in line or not.

More later

John
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:09 PM   #16
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Hi John,

Thanks for your response. No hurry on getting back about the car hauler. I doubt it'll see the road again this year, and now that the tires/wheels have been changed, I'm not about to change them just to adjust the hitch. I will however level the hitch head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
Ideally you need to re-setup the entire WD setup with the car trailer loaded. And measure fender heights to insure it is setup correct.
I agree, I'll put it on the list to do in the spring. We used this hitch on the Troop trailer, plus we lent it out for that purpose too, so it hasn't had a good readjusting in a long time, if ever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
Here is a tip that will help you greatly with all your trailers. Since you have so many of them. Invest in one of these. Money well spent. Mine cost like $120 delivered to my door. Then you can load all you want at home in your own yard and get tongue weight right. And you know exactly what is going on.

http://www.sherline.com/lm.htm
Believe me John, I've been drooling over a Sherline for a couple months. No one seems to have them, so it looks like they have to be ordered through the mail. I asked at General today and they don't carry it either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
And if you are really have a minute, measure from the center of the tow ball in the receiver to the center of the rear axle. I can use this to calculate the load being applied to the rear axle and what 70 psi air bags is lifting up at the ball.
This is the very reason why I've decided against Engineering. I don't mind it, but when it gets to the physics part, I can barely figure out which is left and which is right. However, if you told me this a year ago, I could come back (hopefully ) with the force applied already calculated out. It's been a year now and I've forgotten it all!


BTW, the pics of the WW hooked up does have that 70 PSI in the bags, just so you know.

I'm thinking next weekend, after all the pics are taken, I'm going to completely empty out that front storage bay and relocate everything to the back. Hopefully this'll help with the distribution some. I'll make sure to take some before and after pics of the messy cabinet.

Also, what's your opinion on the rear bed. It goes up out of the way so you can walk under it to put toys in, but it lowers so you can sleep in it. When the toys aren't in there, I lower it down to keep the center of gravity lower, but would that position affect the tongue weight at all? The bed is on gas struts, so it's hard to tell the exact weight of it.

Jon
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1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
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Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:23 PM   #17
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John,

I just found some stuff on the camera that might interest you.

I took these pics on the same day as the other WW pics, but I just hadn't put them on the Photobucket acct. yet.

One interesting thing I found. I had the trailer leaning up a little in the front. I'm not sure why this was, but I tested it and I had the best control of the TV this way:


Here's some more of the hitch:




Here's the air reading:


Lastly, here's a pic I took once it was backed into the building, so the sway was off and I believe the air was dumped too. I can't confirm that though. You can see the bars are pretty straight, but the head is tipped up again:


Jon
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2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9473.8 (as of 6/18/21)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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Old 09-23-2007, 09:39 PM   #18
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John,

After a long day, here's what I have, which isn't much. We were trying to fight daylight, so I didn't get any hitch pics. I'll hook it up as soon as I can and get the pics.

I can tell you I kept the same setting on the bars, on the 5th link, and only about 25 PSI in the back bags. I also emptied out the front bay and loaded everything in the back, so it really pulled nice once I got going. I started out with about 50 PSI, but it was too easily blown around, so I experimented with lowering it and was happier each time I did it.

Once on the highway, I started doing about 62-65, but when you get most people passing you doing 80+, it's pretty hard to keep it going straight. It's not a sway issue because the trailer tracked true to the Ex, but the whole rig got blown over near the shoulder. I later kicked it up to 68-72 (close to 75 just before a few big hills), so the people passing didn't have such an effect. The only time I got white knuckles was when we went through a construction zone where the trailer was riding on both lines. The posted speed was 60, which I was doing, but no one seemed to get the message. A couple times I had people passing me at about 75 on both sides. Not fun!!! For those of you from MI, I'm talking about that 8 mile stretch of I-75 near Frankenmuth.

Also, in that last post, don't believe that level on the side. I found today that it is off. I took a big 4' level and tried to get a more accurate reading, confirming the level was very wrong.

Here's some before pics of the storage bay:




Here's some after pics I took today of the rear area. The only thing added was the four pallets that I found near the dumpster at our storage complex. We'll be burning those at our huge fire in a couple weeks. The front storage bay was almost empty except for the water hoses and some plastic tables and chairs:



Also, here's a pic I created of the dimensions with no load applied. I don't know if it'll help you or not, but I thought it would be good to compare once I get the dimensions with the trailer hitched. I just approximated the dimensions that have to do with the ball because I don't have it here:


Jon
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2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9473.8 (as of 6/18/21)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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Old 09-23-2007, 10:11 PM   #19
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Oh yeah, forgot to mention our Lie-o-meter read 7.1 MPG on the trip, but my basic calculations are showing more like 5.681. We haven't filled up yet to know how much it'll take, so I can't get accurate calculations.

It's a big difference from our 14.9 going up there!

Also, the one other exciting note worthy of mentioning is our step on that WW. I am coming into the town of Kalkaska, MI (about 20 miles from our starting point) and notice in the mirror that the step was out. It's a double step, so the bottom step was folded on top of the upper one, and that whole unit slides in. I swear I put the step in, so it must of come out on the road. I pull over in a parking lot and go to push it in, only to discover it won't stay in for long. The track it goes on does have a center point, but there's not much holding the step in once it goes over center. A little piece of rope fixed the step and we kept on truckin'!

Jon
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2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9473.8 (as of 6/18/21)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
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Old 09-24-2007, 07:39 PM   #20
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rich2500
Jon do you by chance know the measurement from the floor to the top of where the ball sits in the a-frame with the trailer level and not hooked up to the excursion
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