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Old 09-24-2021, 08:13 PM   #1
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What on Earth is this Stuff on The Roof???

Hello Sunline Fans,

So, I picked up a "new to me" Sunline T1550...and I'm
making plans to shore up the roof a bit.

It doesn't have any visible leaks, but I intend to use it as an Office in the
backyard and want to be sure I don't develop any leaks this Winter.

I've emailed back and forth with Dicor and they believe I should strip all the black/grey stuff -- (including all the "flaps" around the Skylights and Vents).

But I'm not even sure what the material is. In some parts it looks "brushed on" and in other parts it looks like a SHEET of some kind.

I made a little Youtube video to send to a local RV Roof place (Quote was for $3,300!!! Yikes!).

Anyone care to take a peek at it and see what you see?


Thank you all!

Mark in Massachusetts
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Old 09-29-2021, 07:42 AM   #2
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Hi Mark,

You did a good video to help show us what you are up against. Some comments.

You are right, the Sunline roof is not a direct walk on roof. Meaning you cannot walk directly on it without some support measures in place. There is no thick plywood of support under the roof membrane unless you happen to have a special order Sunline which had it added at the factory.

Sunline had aluminum roofs and rubber roofs, the precautions are about the same on how to service the roof. Put down something to protect the roof from scratches/abrasion. A tarp, canvas, old thin rug etc. Then using manageable size sheets of 3/8" thick or thicker plywood, span the rafters with the plywood. Then kneel etc on the plywood. I use small piece about 24 to 30" wide x 48" long and several. Easier to get up and down and manage. You need a good ladder too. Getting on and off the roof can be hazardous, take care and stop and think, before getting on and off the roof. Here are 2 pics to show the basic concept servicing a roof AC unit. This is a rubber roof, but the concept the same.





Next, a prior owner coated your roof with "something". I can see that "something" is curling up at the roof edges and at the roof vents. The coating is not very good and many coatings cannot handle ponding water which you have the dips issues at the sides.

The dips at the side are a concern to first find out if there is wood rot at the wall area. The rafters span left to right across the camper, rest on top of the left and right walls. If the rafter ends have water damage, that is a concern to even go up on the roof. It can also be part of some of the dip reason.

Campers do not leak like a house. Campers most times have seeping leaks, water wicks or slowly flows in from failed sealants and water is trapped in the ceiling, walls and floor. The water starts as small and accumulates with each rain storm. And there can be many small points of entry, not just one big point.

On the metal roofs, the sheet joints left to right, any penetration in the roof membrane with screws etc, (tank vents, fridge vent, crank up vent) the front and rear roof seams, the corner moldings attachment, the screwed edges of the left and right long walls are some of the leak points. If the main aluminum membrane has some corrosion pin holes, that is a leak. It is hard sometimes to see or smell leaks in the living space, and just because you cannot see them, does not mean they are not there.

There are ways to detect camper leaks, some are knowing where to look and what you are seeing, along with removing some screws in the right place for inspection. These methods give you a look into the issue, but are not totally definitive short of pulling the camper apart, from the "outside". A better way that has not yet failed me, is to use a pinless moisture meter scanning the inside of your vintage camper. See here for more on the meter. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...per-17613.html

I would suggest before you start into large work dealing with the roof, to do some inspection to see what it wet and what is not. Odds are high, there is water damage somewhere in your camper, how much is unknown. The roof may not be the large leak, siding joints can be worse then roof leaks in some cases. If you want to know more on the where to look, and screw inspection, let me know I'll type some more. The moisture meter is very accurate once understood how to use it , gives you a better picture of where water damage is occurring and how large the area is.

On the roof itself, once you are past the rafters are not rotted and you can get up on the roof safely, the roof coating at the vents, corner moldings, roof sheet seams, and anywhere there is a penetration in the roof, would need that old coating taken off. The large open areas, is still a TBD.

Not knowing what you have, here is where I would start. Get a stiff blade putty knife, 1" wide" and dull over the blade edges a little to not dig into the roof. Since your is a metal roof, a slight edge on the blade is OK, but not a hard crisp cutting edge. Get a heat gun, any one will work. Nothing fancy, just some heat. Gently warm the coating and see if you can get under it with the putty knife. Do not burn the coating, (stand in one spot) keep the gun moving back and forth, then out of the way and scrap. Some times if the material is coming up good with heat, point the gun ahead of the putty knife, keep heating and pushing.

There is also the chemical method if there are small chips of left overs after the scraping. What chemical to use, again an unknown. I would test mineral sprits (MS) with a rag, see with a little wait time if it will start breaking down the coating. If so, clean with the MS. I know standard grade MS does not lift the paint on the camper, but there are brands that are stronger, so do a test spot in an out of site area of the siding to see if it starts lifting the paint up. MS does leave a residue film, but is a good cleaner. I use Naphtha which is a high flash cleaner, (it cleans and evaporates off quick) after the MS to get ride of the last residue. Some use denatured alcohol or rubbing alcohol or even lacquer thinner. Again test a spot. Ad FYI, acetone will remove the paint on the camper. Suggest not using acetone.

What to use once you get it clean, this comes down to how long you want to keep the camper, how much you want to spend to not have to worry about failing caulk. The Dicor self leveling works OK at the vents and other hole penetration areas. It can be the cheapest, just after 3 to 5 years, cracks can start and need touch up. You have to inspect the caulk at least 4 times a year if you are towing the camper. Flexing from towing and sun UV starts the caulk breakdown.

The Eternabond is very good, it costs more, is good on the roof seams and around the vents.

The Henry's Tropicool is rated for metal and the only RV rated roof coating they have. This is a bigger undertaking as you have to so the whole roof are you prepped at once pending what you are doing. The product is moisture cure and once the can is open, its curing. This is a lifetime product, if it is applied correctly. Crazy Seal is another option, which is an RV roof coating, but again, it has to be applied correctly. These 2 coatings last, but cost the most. Again it comes back to, how long do you want this to last and how much do you want to pay for it?

There are coatings too. Heng's make some which are cheaper and metal roof rated which others have use, however I can't find the spec sheets on them.

On any roof coatings or lap sealant, the key to success is it had to be spotless clean back to the base surface, OR, the old coating is bonded to tight it will not come up but is again, spotless clean. On putting new coatings over old, do a pull test on the new costing to make sure the new coating will bond correctly. More on this pull test if you end up needing it.

Just one heads up on coatings, try not use acrylic coatings where you have ponding water. These style coatings work well where water sheds off the roof, but not great in ponding water situations. Soaking in water constantly can start the coating to break down.

Hope this helps, feel free to ask more questions as you get into this.

John
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Old 09-30-2021, 12:23 PM   #3
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JohnB!

I actually read through your full posts on Roofs and went out last week and bought the plywood (30" X 48" 1/2") and tarps! Haven't been up yet! I also bought a heat gun (with diffusers and rounded scraper) and have a good sturdy ladder and a good sturdy foundation for the ladder...So I SHOULD be okay, but agree that it looks tricky!

THANK YOU for telling me NO-GO on Acetone!!!! Ha. ha..! Might have tried it!

I read your entire post and 100% of it made sense, as I had read your excellent roof tutorials.

My plan is to use this an an Office in the backyard. I don't plan on towing it hardly at all (Never, really) and plan to sell it once it has lived it's useful life as an Office (couple years max).

So, I don't need the lifetime roof....just need to keep the inside dry and comfortable. I understood what you said about the "leaks" not always being apparent and read your excellent post about the moisture meter. I'm afraid to look into it! (ha. ha.)

I did go through the inside of the trailer with a fine-tooth comb and at least insofar as I can tell -- the inside has seen very little water for a 1988 trailer. Seems pretty solid.

The ONE burning question I have, is how does one inspect the rafters??? Is this a destructive process??

Since my use is to work with this as an "Office Pod" for now, I'm not sure how likely I am to get into structural repairs this season (If I can post-pone doing so.).

There is a company near me in Rhode Island that said they'd dig into the roof for $850 and really go at it -- but that is feeling more like a "next year" thing -- depends on how my work goes.

So, I guess my priority would be, to verify somehow that I can go up there safely, keep any snow weight off it and then find a way to clean it up and getting it sealed up as best as possible.

I MAY tackle the moisture-meter, but am not sure if I'm prepared to deal with whatever I find.

I guess the structural integrity of the rafters is the big question-mark. How does one determine this????

Thank you so much JohnB!

Mark in Massachusetts
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Old 09-30-2021, 05:17 PM   #4
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Our 1989 had similar sort of stuff going on around the roof vents. I think it is Dicor or some other sealing product that has hardened and shrunk over the years, causing it to peel up like that. I ended up removing all of that and re-sealing around the lip/edge of the roof vent and over the screw heads.


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Old 09-30-2021, 05:24 PM   #5
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Thank you Wesley?

JohnB made some excellent suggestions about removing the stuff..heat gun, putty knife...some solvents, etc.

Did you find any additional tips to easily removing it, by chance?

Thank you so much!

Mark in Massachusetts
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Old 09-30-2021, 05:29 PM   #6
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My recollection was that it just peeled off pretty easily. Putty knife and/or flathead screwdriver should do the job just fine. No nasty residue left behind that I remember. I cleaned it down good with acetone on an old rag scraps and re-sealed with Dicor. Didn't seem to affect the paint, but it's also on the roof, so probably no big deal even if it did.


Wesly
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Old 09-30-2021, 05:33 PM   #7
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Thank you for tips Wesley and the encouragement!!!
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Old 09-30-2021, 05:38 PM   #8
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You are most welcome! Good luck! Please let us know how it goes.


Don't forget to check out and keep an eye on all your windows as well, they are as much or more of a problem than the roof it seems.



And for the record, the best thing I ever did for ours was to put in one of those metal carport covers to park it under. Just wish I had done it sooner...



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Old 09-30-2021, 06:21 PM   #9
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I'll hopefully get to the roof this weekend....

I just Google searched those Metal Carport Covers.
Hmm...pretty cool idea!!

BTW, what happens to the Windows??? These are all looking pretty solid, but who knows?

Thanks again!
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Old 09-30-2021, 06:31 PM   #10
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It is nice...not the prettiest, but the price wasn't too bad...at least not a few years back (5 or so?)...checked into getting a small one maybe to put over our new utility trailer and the price was way higher, and not worth it for that particular use anyway.


The framework in the walls is 1x2's (with the 3/4" side being the thickness) with metal siding against that and then butyl/putty tape on top of that with the window screwed against it all. The putty tape dries and hardens and shrinks somewhat over time. The screws can also work their way slightly loose. Tightening down the screws a touch might help, but running new sealant around the edges is probably the best bet. Or removing the window and replace all the sealant, but that is a big job, and can be a real pain if the wood is rotted and you can't get the screws to tighten back down against the new putty tape...even worse if the wood is mostly gone in an area. Yeah, been there done that. Best idea is prevention! If yours doesn't have rotten areas already, I would be really surprised...unless someone stored it under cover much of its life.


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Old 09-30-2021, 06:48 PM   #11
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JohnB mentioned checking out the rafters for the roof, but I'm not sure how one does that without tearing the roof apart.

As for the windows and potential rot -- I also am not sure how this would be discerned without tearing the windows out....

What am I missing?

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Old 09-30-2021, 07:01 PM   #12
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Check for water inside after a good rain...more the long soaking type rather than a quick thunderstorm, though those can show it too. Also poke and prod around everything, if it's rotten (bad enough) it will be soft rather than solid as wood should be. I would suggest doing that around the ceiling edges, around windows, corners, around outside storage compartments, etc. Unfortunately, by the time you feel it being soft, it's been leaking for a while, but at least you will know it and can stop it before it gets any worse. The trailer we had before this one, I knew there were some soft spots, but it wasn't wet, so I didn't think too much about it. Then one of the front corners started coming apart on our way home from a trip...it was sopping wet. The problem was the fake wood veneer on the inside is essentially plastic, so water did not come through it and was not obvious... Here's a look at the repair and some insight into how these trailers are built, though it's a safe bet the Sunlines were built a little better. Camper Repair Pardon the vertical photos, something got goofed up during an upgrade and I never went back to fix them...


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Old 09-30-2021, 07:12 PM   #13
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Super helpful -- thank you!!!

I'll check out the linked thread as well. Looks awesome!

I've been going over the trailer pretty invasively and did have that massive type of soaking rain --- and for whatever reason -- (luck maybe!) -- it just seems to be dry in all the nooks and crannies...and the wood seems to be solid.

Maybe I'm in for a rude awakening -- but for now...crossing my fingers.

Thanks for the excellent exchange and info!

Mark in Massachusetts

Ps. Just diving into the photo's -- incredible!!!
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Old 09-30-2021, 07:25 PM   #14
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That's awesome, sounds like yours was well cared for and/or stored under cover. I wish mine was that solid! Just be proactive and you should be fine.


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Old 09-30-2021, 08:21 PM   #15
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Thanks Wesley!

Really enjoying this: More Repairs !



Scary to see how when they rot, they really rot!!!!

Frightening to contemplate!!!
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Old 10-01-2021, 05:27 AM   #16
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Yes, it can be quite frightening! I occasionally look over Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace to see what is out there...would love to find something in a little better shape, but still have lots of big jalousie windows like our current trailer, but they are all old and mostly in worse condition...and this year, all much more expensive. But...it's amazing to see what is listed and people note that "it just needs a little work"...clearly they have not seen what I (and you now) have seen. No, your trailer with the ceiling bowing downwards is not a simple repair and not worth $1000! And all the fiberglass sided trailers, you can quickly see it at a glance where edges and sections are wavy from separation and rotted wood behind it. Another reason to get one with aluminum sides.



The crazy thing is how long it seems to take wood to rot to the point that it is soft...which means by the time you notice it, it has been leaking for quite a while. Though I'm sure being closed up in a wall that doesn't quickly dry out doesn't help anything.


But yeah, keep up with that preventative maintenance, and don't ignore or delay when you do notice a leak, and you'll be in good shape.
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Old 10-05-2021, 05:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVNewbie11 View Post
JohnB mentioned checking out the rafters for the roof, but I'm not sure how one does that without tearing the roof apart.

As for the windows and potential rot -- I also am not sure how this would be discerned without tearing the windows out....

What am I missing?

Hi Mark,

Wesley gave you some good info. The moisture meter I linked you to will tell you what is behind the wall, ceiling and floor. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...per-17613.html

The only thing the moisture meter will not pick up is, dry rot, as with dry rot their is very little moisture. Dry rot happens after the wet rot has dried up. And the way I have seen dry rot happen in a camper was, the prior owner sealed up the old leak, and after a really long time (think many months to years) the water trap evaporated out but the dry rot fugus was left and started to decay the wood to dust.

Odds are high you will find some level of water damage even though you cannot see it inside the living space. As was said, find the water damage, and seal up the siding and roof where ever a hole, was put in it. (screw, window, door etc) this at least stops the water from making everything worse. Proflex Rv works on the metal siding, and metal parts of the roof and comes in many colors. The Dicor will work on the roof, and is a mandate on a rubber roof, but your is a metal roof so either can be used.

See here for how to apply Dicor non sag on vertical surfaces like doors windows etc and the same process can be used for Proflex RV. Make sure everything is clean as the caulk will not bond to dirt or mold. Do not do this in direct sunlight and high heat. it dries everything up too fast.

https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...tml#post137746

Hope this helps

John

PS, Do not use silicone as your caulk. It is a good product, just it will not a good choice to last on a camper. It will release the bond on one or more sides over time, the silicone itself is still good, just not stuck to the camper. The heat and shrink and twisting of the camper when towed or not towed is part of the problem.
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Old 10-05-2021, 10:55 AM   #18
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John!

Thank you for the caulking info!

Was online trying to figure that all out last night! Ha. ha...!
Perfect!

I think I'm beginning to seeing the "big picture" of all this, and feel much more confident that I can make favorable upgrades.

In my travels, I ran across this stuff and wonder if anyone has any experience with it. It sounds very nice to use, but maybe will just use Henry's, if I go that route at all.

https://www.rvroofmagic.com/index.php

What seems appealing is that they sell it with their own caulking as well as a form of tape like Eternabond -- but tape that is deliberately not finished on both sides (butylene?), so the RV Roof Magic will adhere to it without scuffing it up.

So, one could maybe get the best of all worlds...the caulking, the sealant and the tape in a one-stop type of solution.

I watched a bunch of videos on it -- and it looks promising.

Is it just good marketing or has it been used by anyone to good effect?

Not sure I want to be a pioneer and use it, but it does seem to offer some advantages -- the most significant for me is that it seems to not have any issues with ponding of water at all.

Any words of wisdom either way on it?

All the best,

Mark in Massachusetts
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Old 10-07-2021, 09:10 PM   #19
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Mark,

I have not used, or seen the RV Roof Magic. What I did see that caught my eye was that it was made by EPDM coatings. H'mm I have heard of them before. https://www.epdmcoatings.com/?gclid=...RoCZ0oQAvD_BwE

Not sure what they difference is. The one thing I do know, is to do a pull test on the product to make sure it will bond to what ever you cannot get off the roof.

I just did a pull test on a rubber roof which a prior owner coated it with, something. I may case, the pull test came out good and I have more confidence the coating will work on the old coating.

I followed the Henry adhesion test, for their 887 product. See here for how to do the test. https://henry.com/retail/white-roof-...e-roof-coating

Look under: 887 Tropi-Cool® Adhesion Test Instructions. I used fiberglass screening embedded in the coating. Waited the number of days to cure, and tried to pull it off. In my case, the test came out really well.

Here are 2 pics of the test.

The initial setup. On the left was new EPDM rubber roofing. On the right, is a section of the old camper roof with the coating over the rubber roof.


Here are the pull samples coated in the curing process.


In your case, maybe you can do a test on a perfect clean roof, then on an area what is suspect with left over coating.

The ideal is, you get all the old whatever is on the roof off, but if you can't, then test to make sure what ever coating you are doing will bond to what is left.

Hope this helps.

John
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Old 10-16-2021, 06:25 AM   #20
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John,
Everything you offer helps!!!
Been so busy with it, hadn't had a chance to say thank you!!!
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
It is slowly coming together as a project!
Best to You,
Mark in Massachusetts
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