T-2499 entry door frame re-set

[vcrt]

It seems that our 2007 2499 wasn't the only Sunline built with an entry door out of kilter as JohnB wrote up a thorough pictorial on this topic awhile back.

Ours had this annoying habit of catching the top left (latch side) corner of the screen door every time the door was opened. The only way to prevent it was to put the stabilizer jack down at the right rear corner. But the jack is not always in use so, I've been planning to re-set my door frame since I got the camper a few months ago. The time and weather was just right yesterday and I did the job. While I was at it, I rechecked the leak situation that had caused water to creep in from the back. That repair was done as soon as we got the camper, but I have wondered if the leak was maybe not completely sealed off since I was getting about a 28% moisture reading on the floor just inside the door. Well, when I had the door frame out, I was able to lift the vinyl flooring to inspect the sub floor. It was dry top and bottom, but still there was a slight mildew odor coming from it. Since the vinyl flooring was not glued down by the factory, I thought it might be a fairly easy additional job to lift it about 18" or so back and replace the OSB until I realized that the factory's method of securing the carpet to the rear was to use very narrow crown staples into the rolled over edge. I have a few staple guns, but none with such a narrow crown. Also, and this was the clincher, as was Sunline's custom, the cabinet to the right side was screwed in from outside the walls, so no chance of getting that vinyl to come up with the cabinet out of the way. Once I had a look at the OSB, I figured there was too much work involved for any benefit I might have gotten and I decided to coat the all the wood I could access (under the vinyl flooring) with Elmer's rotted wood stabilizer and put it all back together.

Here's some photos, first the entry door.
This is the right side of the door opening showing more space at the top of the square than at the bottom:


Here's the left side showing the opposite condition:


Apparently, the wall studs were installed with a lean toward the front of the camper. Fortunately, there was about 1/4" gap all around the move the top of the frame (about 1/4") rearward. That and a slight spreading of the frame at the top moved the hinge side far enough away from the latch side at the top to give me the clearance I was looking for. Problem solved.

I didn't take a before photo showing a much larger gap on the hinge side than the latch side, but here in the after photo, you can see that the gap is consistent all the way around:


The last two photos show the condition of the OSB sub floor and the perimeter floor joist under the entry door. The bottom of the perimeter wood has gotten stained darker from the water leak that is now sealed:



Rich

[JohnB]

Hi Rich,

Ah yup, the infamous out of square door. The camper changes shape over time and towing distance. In your case though, it had little towing distance being on a permanent site and may have just plain been installed a little out of square and then became worse.

Your was tipped forward. My 2 entry doors where tipped to the back of the camper. A year ago I had to reset the front door too, camper tipped to the back. And my slide opening has a level of the issue I'm going to have to address.

It is like the wind resistance of towing blowing it back may be affecting it. I did not have door stick issues when we acquired the camper. As time went on it became worse. The back door I thought I was going to break the glass with the flex upon closing it so it it was fixed first. The front bedroom door, was good for the first 10 years of it's life. Most likely a slow progression to being bad. But once bad, it's no good and you have to deal with it.

Gene, here on the forum I think had to reset his too. We all have different floor plans and sizes of camper, doers not seem to matter, all can be affected by this. And some may never have the issue. Again, it may depend on how the camper may be used and how square or not it was on day 1.

Glad you got it fixed. And glad the wet/smell is sorted out.

John

[vcrt]

I wonder why Sunline didn't add diagonal wall bracing? OK, in many models the cabinets serve to stiffen the walls, like our 92 Solaris. There were so many interior features the walls were locked in place, but the 2499 has more open wall and window space around the entry door.
Just wondering.
Rich

[JohnB]

On the cross bracing, agree. Maybe drill holes on a large diagonal and run steel cable through them and tighten to hold it together.

My floor plan has even more open wall space. However the front bedroom entry door is like yours. The shower walls should be holding it and then the front wardrobe cabinet. But still in time, I had to reset the bed room entry door. Something allowed the frame to lean to the back. I cannot see anything else out of whack. No siding buckle, just the entry door a 1/4" out of square as seen on the bottom of door and frame.

[vcrt]

Speaking of siding buckle:
I have noticed that our 2499 has some odd looking siding on the driver's side.
It looks like the top and bottom stand further out than the center. I haven't taken a long straightedge to it yet, but when I do, I'll post a picture. I think it would show a gap in the center when pressed up against the siding at the top and bottom. I think it's the way it left the factory. It doesn't cause any problems that I can see other than looking a little out of whack. Oh, on the inside, the OH cabinets over the sofa and stove are angled a little further out at the bottom which would conform to the outside shape.
Don't know why, just kind of odd.
Rich

[JohnB]

Hi Rich,

H'mm the siding. Did you notice this the same thing when it was more towards summer?

There may be a thermal expansion/shrink thing going on. Either the wood studs have shrunk or the siding was pulled dead tight before stapling. If the wood shrinks and the aluminum has no place to go, it would have to pucker out a little. Maybe try to define how much pucker there is, then come spring/summer see if the same thing exists, when parked in the same spot.

I know on mine, from time to time I do see a little siding pucker so to speak and a siding bow wave down the length of a camper when standing still. Part of this may be the flex of the camper just due to the ground under the tires at that time. It never seems to stay in the same spot so I sort of chalked it up to flexing of the camper. There may be some thermal and flex going on as well.

Until I put shocks on the camper, the bow wave along the full length towing over a bump at speed, she was "whipping in the wind". I would routinely get at least 6 full cycles of camper up and down flex before it settled out. On a box length as long as mine, the siding for sure is flexing up and down with the main frame. Now that I added shocks, I only get one oscillation and that is it, it's over.

The dynamics of towing a camper down the road are pretty amazing. Everything has to flex or be dead rigid to resist. If the camper cannot withstand either flex or rigid, something has to give.

Happy Thanksgiving

John

[vcrt]

John,
I didn't notice any difference from summer to colder weather. I think the photo will be the best way to demonstrate how it looks, but I have a cover on it now. Maybe I can slip in behind the cover and get a straightedge against the siding. I think it's the way it was built since it seems to have affected the interior OH cabinets. It's really just cosmetic, but I just happened to think about it when you mentioned siding buckle.
Rich

[vcrt]

OK, got some photos today.
The first shows a white and black bungee cord stretched from top to bottom of the left side wall. It seems to me that the siding goes in from between the stripe area and the bottom of the lower siding panel.

This next photo shows the how the siding "waves" looking from the shed door to the front.


Rich

[JohnB]

Rich,

I have seem some of what your pics show. My vintage T2499 did not have the rounded bottom gold siding. But the T310SR does. The rounded bottom siding is not as supported dead tight to the camper out on the end of the curve. As such the glow can flair out at the outer round end some times. Where the non rounded version was square and stapled tight to the bottom of the camper. Your prior Sunline I think must of been this way.

The top wave area, I have seen that too. It comes and goes. Longer straight runs seem to the the worst offenders. Some of it "may" be main frame flex. At the factory the camper was riding down the floor rails with concrete under them. I do not know what setup things Sunline did, but the frame was flexed to what ever the frame supports gave at that time when they stapled the siding on. Now when you park, the frame may be flexed different. You have your stabilizers setup different and the whole camper flexes. Then the siding puckers in or out.

Now that I think about this, my T2499 has more siding flex then the T310SR. The T2499 had a 5" channel main frame rails. The T310SR had 10" I shape main frame rails. The T310 is stronger in this regards. I do not recall the white pucker as much with the T310 as I did the T2499. But the lower gold on the T310 being round does flair out where the T2499 was square and did not.

Do not know if this is what you are seeing, but maybe it will sparks some thoughts as that is what I have found.

John

[vcrt]

I think any of those situations are possible John. When I saw the wave in the horizontal plane, I thought the factory just didn't bother to make sure the wall studs were in line with each other (who knows what their mindset was, the factory was to close in five months).

Yes, the lower siding on our 92 was the same as your 2499. Staple directly under the perimeter wood frame. The newest rolled under style is not connected at all. I do like the look of the later version. This irregularity is not on the R/S though, only the left.

Our 2499 has I'm almost sure, a 5" main frame (has to be, b/c the A frame is 4" and it's only a little shorter in height), but the frame is an I beam, not C channel like the A frame.
Thanks,
Rich

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by vcrt

Our 2499 has I'm almost sure, a 5" main frame (has to be, b/c the A frame is 4" and it's only a little shorter in height), but the frame is an I beam, not C channel like the A frame.

The 2005 7,000# GVWR frame redesign went from 5" channel main frame rails with a 5" channel A frame (2004 and before) to a 6" I shape main frame rail with 4" channel iron A frame. The 4" channel A frame on the heavier TW campers was the problem. The issue never showed up on the lighter campers.