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Old 12-26-2009, 05:55 PM   #21
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Thanks Guys

I’m still thinking thru the options.

Frank, my metal sandwich thought was 1/8” top layer, 3/4” pressure treated plywood middle and 1/8” bottom layer. Use a fair qty of 10-32 flat head machine screws, C sink in bottom, clearance hole in OSB and drill and tap the top player. Red lock tight and stack the screw sticking up and grind smooth. Yes screws into OSB are not for structural. It’s better then partial board but not by much.

I have altered that approach after thinking further. Qty 2, 1/8” sheets that big is like a piece of 1/4” thick steel plate in weight. I know I tend to build heavy duty, but after realizing the weight and one other miss, friction I need to rethink that exact approach.

The bottom of the slide on my vintage camper rides on a metal trough when it comes in. The Darco being plastic reduces the friction as the slide floor travels over this metal trough. In 2005 Sunline stopped using the Darco slide floor, good move…., and went to a bonded plastic coating on the bottom of OSB board. I found 2 manufactures.

Here is a pic of PTHutch’s 2005


And a chip out of it


Here are 2 of the 3 brands I found. The 3rd one I can’t find the darn web site again. Sunline used something similar if not one of these.

http://www.parklandplastics.com/duroslide.shtml#1

http://www.greenwoodproducts.com/panelam.htm

Inside the camper they changed the metal through as well. It is now a piece of nylon insert or UHMW plastic as a wear guide.

Here is my vintage.








I have concerns about this large of a Darco patch. I have not yet used or even bought my Flex-mend. I’m using Gorilla tape for right now so I can take it back apart. If the Flex mend bonds and melts as on piece with no feathered edges, then life is good. If it does not totally blend in the edges, I fear over time they will get caught on the inside metal through and rip up the Darco. Granted these are preconceived notions but not beyond impossible.

The patch method has morphed into, there will be no Darco over the patch per say. And this rules out the bottom being steel as it will grind going over the metal through.

Since I have 1” to work with and 3/4” plywood, I have that 1/4” to work into my favor. I’ll draw up a sketch and post as this can get lost in the words quick. And when I take it from brain waves to paper, reality snaps in some times.

The quick word thought is, the 3/4 thick section goes up in 1st. Top of it flush with slide floor. Mill (route) out a counter step to drop in a 1/8” or 3/16” x 3 flat bar. Flat head screw up from bottom, tap metal, screw in place. Also use the right bonding glue between the wood edges.

The on the bottom 1/4” I place the Darco flap from the main slide floor and trap it between the bottom of the 3/4” sheet and the new 1/4” piece. The Darco is then dead tight no edges. The question is then what to make the 1/4 layer out of. Pressure treated plywood or UHMW plastic ( I have an old ½ a sheet from work) or something else? Ideally I can use the 1/4 pressure treated and coat it with something to cut the friction that will not grind it self when going over that metal through. I do not have any experience with epoxies in this application to know if it would hold up.

Replacing the entire floor is always an option but I have tear into the inside so much I know I’m going to mess up the wall board. I know I can make the patch mechanically sound. But still, partly on the fence of the whole floor.

Sketch yet to follow

John
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Old 12-31-2009, 03:53 PM   #22
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John,

Just FYI: I got the repair tape in the mail today and it looks almost exactly like Darco. It does have an adhesive back to it. I'll report back on my install findings and outcome!

Gary



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Old 12-31-2009, 06:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD_Driver
John,

Just FYI: I got the repair tape in the mail today and it looks almost exactly like Darco. It does have an adhesive back to it. I'll report back on my install findings and outcome!

Gary



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Gary

Thanks!! Remember a pic is worth a million words....hint, hint.

Happy Sticking

John
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Old 03-06-2010, 08:58 PM   #24
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Today the weather finally broke. YEH!!!!

To much snow on the ground still to go camping but I could pull to camper over on the concrete and see if I can at least dry out this wet section. Late December was when I opened up the Darco to take a peak was the eye opening experiance. And ever since it the weather has been so cold or snowy, or more snowy or even more snow that I have not been able to dry that area out.

So today I started the process to at least try can get the moisture out of this area. When I pulled the Darco flap down it was still froze. So I set up a small heater to blow on it. It reached 46F here today so that helped too. By late afternoon I stuck a screw driver in the area of the rot and it literally disintegrated and started falling out…… So I dug some more and then let the air get in deeper. This is the pile at the end of today.



And a shot in from the end. Yes that yellow patch is carpet foam under the rug. Glad they wrapped the Darco as far as they did. This will help the spread into other areas, I hope.


And towards the outer wall.


And a close up under the outer wall. Yuk….


Sunday I try and clean it up more and dry out some more as I formulate the get well plan. First is how to get to that area to put a patch in.

Here is the side


And the end view


I “think” the gold lower siding is held on at the fender well area and the slide corner strip. The gold has to come off. So the fender well and a good part of the slide corner flange have to be unscrewed. And then for sure the 1st piece of white siding they goes thru the cargo hole has to be at least loosened up. So the cargo hole has to come out. Then on the end of the slide I may be able to just fold back the white plastic end panel to get to the slide sill plate as I need to attach the patch to the sill with bolts.

So the project continues. I’ll keep you posted.

John

PS Anyone know how to get Eternabond off? Heat and pull? I have a strip over the slide flange that has to come off.
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Old 03-07-2010, 06:55 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
I “think” the gold lower siding is held on at the fender well area and the slide corner strip. The gold has to come off. So the fender well and a good part of the slide corner flange have to be unscrewed. And then for sure the 1st piece of white siding they goes thru the cargo hole has to be at least loosened up. So the cargo hole has to come out. Then on the end of the slide I may be able to just fold back the white plastic end panel to get to the slide sill plate as I need to attach the patch to the sill with bolts.

So the project continues. I’ll keep you posted.

John

John,

The bottom gold siding piece should be attached all the way across. I still have the piece, that I removed from the T-299SR and will go out to verify that for you. The white piece above it, will have a bounty of staples holding it up as well.

Here's an inside picture of the front corner of that slide:



You will have to use extreme caution on the corner flange. Even with the screws out, it is very securely attached to the siding and the white aluminum end piece. It will bend easily, if you try too hard to separate it. Also, the slide end is sheet aluminum, which is glued to luan. It is then glued to the slide studs, so there would be no holes in the aluminum.



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Old 03-07-2010, 07:25 AM   #26
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I stand corrected John,


The bottom gold piece is only held-on at it's ends. There are no staple holes along it's top edge. The next piece up, has staples every 14-18"

Hope this helps...


Gary



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Old 03-07-2010, 07:32 AM   #27
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It may be a bit late, but here are the pictures you requested of the darco repair tape.



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Old 03-07-2010, 07:50 AM   #28
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I'm a little late to the party on this post, but as I looked at new campers the past six months I paid a lot of attention to how the different manufacturers address this potential problem (or not).

It seems the cheaper, poorly built brands all use the Sunline method, some form of OSB or plywood wrapped in darco material. Many models even featured holes in the darco where screws go through into the stud wall. As we now know this is a recipe for problems.

The Big Horn I ordered uses a marine grade 1" plywood with a laminated (plastic?) sheet on the bottom. So from the bottom it looks like the slide floor is some kind of smooth plastic. This slides really nice over the nylon runners and of course is waterproof. However on 2009 and prior models, they were still leaving the plywood edge exposed, so as water would run down the slide wall, it would hit that edge and the plywood delaminates. Here's a link to the Heartland forum with a pic:

http://www.heartlandowners.org/attac...1&d=1253500198

Heartland fixed this by installing a plastic angle piece to cover the exposed edge, which runs up under the horizontal strip. This allows the water to run off the plastic and onto the ground. While at the Heartland factory a few weeks ago, I took a pic of this:



I'm in the mobile home business, and have an extreme dislike for all things darco. It causes me more headaches than you can imagine, and once the factory seal has been cut or penetrated, things are never the same. I cannot understand why TT manufacturers would use this to cover slide floors when there appear to be so many better options. Even in a perfect world, the material will still have a finite number of slide open/close cycles before it starts to break down and shred apart.

I don't imagine any of this helps you in your situation but thought I would at least share the idea of the plastic drip edge on the Big Horn...
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:43 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD_Driver
It may be a bit late, but here are the pictures you requested of the darco repair tape.
Hi Gary

You’re not too late. What is it called and where did you get it? I have not bought mine yet.

Thanks for the pics on the 299. Helpful.

The staples in the siding.... can they be removed without destroying the siding? I'm envisioning 1" long and 3/8" wide HEAVY duty staples that are about 1/32" thick monsters. How did you get them out?

Thanks
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihsolutions

It seems the cheaper, poorly built brands all use the Sunline method, some form of OSB or plywood wrapped in darco material. Many models even featured holes in the darco where screws go through into the stud wall. As we now know this is a recipe for problems.

The Big Horn I ordered uses a marine grade 1" plywood with a laminated (plastic?) sheet on the bottom. So from the bottom it looks like the slide floor is some kind of smooth plastic. This slides really nice over the nylon runners and of course is waterproof. However on 2009 and prior models, they were still leaving the plywood edge exposed, so as water would run down the slide wall, it would hit that edge and the plywood delaminates. Here's a link to the Heartland forum with a pic:

http://www.heartlandowners.org/attac...1&d=1253500198

Heartland fixed this by installing a plastic angle piece to cover the exposed edge, which runs up under the horizontal strip. This allows the water to run off the plastic and onto the ground. While at the Heartland factory a few weeks ago, I took a pic of this:




I don't imagine any of this helps you in your situation but thought I would at least share the idea of the plastic drip edge on the Big Horn...
Hi Jeff,

I would not single out Sunline in this Darco wrap method. I agree it is not the ideal slide floor. Sunline did in 2005 change the slide floors from Darco wrap to the plastic bonded OSB board. I have been doing a fair amount of research into slides and the higher end brands seems to follow an industry standard until the standard changes once again. And I put Sunline in the higher end brands and yes they did follow industry practice that, well stopped for them in 2006. Mine is 2004 and Sunline used the Darco wrap and left holes in it. The holes is what got me that was a clear miss on their part. It they would of at least covered the holes, the odds whole be a whole lot higher to not have a problem.

Can add these brands to the Darco wrap slide floor manufactures. I have found and have my own pics of:
* Jayco Jayflight, Eagle and Designer TT and 5ers,
* Skyline No Mad TT’s,
* Sunny Brook Titan, there top end brand when they still made them
* Artic Fox

Some of these where pre 2004, some like 05’s and 06’s so there are from that generation. The Darco wrap was the way of the times then and now thank goodness it is old generation. The plastic bonded board seems to be the next generation and it is a better option. So that now is showing up on more brands. In 5 years there then may be a big spread between the higher end campers and the lower ones. Do not know the cost difference as new at the factory cost, the plastic bonded board may be cheaper, less labor.

The drip edge, I cannot get in the Heartland site you linked. Need to be a member. I would really like to see that drip edge. Any way you can post of pic of it here? Once you get yours if you can post a pic would be really great. And how they sneak that drip edge into the side of the camper and not break it off. I’ll have to look today at mine today how much room is there.

You mentioned your in the mobile home business, any idea on where one can buy some Darco material or the repair tape? I’m going to need a some of both to make this repair. I cannot even find who makes Darco. They do not seem to use the company name Darco yet everyone who uses it, calls it Darco….

Thanks

John
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Old 03-07-2010, 01:10 PM   #31
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John,

That stuff is called : "Flex-Mend Belly Repair Tape"


I found it here" http://www.mobilehomerepair.com/shield.htm


The staples are pretty much like you described. I didn't spend enough time, before the weather got cold, figuring out the best way to get them out. Things are starting to dry up around here, so I'll see what I can do for you.
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Old 03-07-2010, 04:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD_Driver
John,

That stuff is called : "Flex-Mend Belly Repair Tape"


I found it here" http://www.mobilehomerepair.com/shield.htm
Gary

Thanks!! Just ordered some and some spare underbelly material. You can buy it by the foot on that site.

Seems if you type in Flex Mend Under Belly you get a several hits in the mobile repair world. Just doing Darco turns up nothing much and even Flex Mend does not have a lot. But Under belly and it all comes up….

Now working on acquiring the rolls if Butyl tape and floor board. I’m thinking 3/4” pressure treated for the bottom and 1/4” glued and screwed to the top to make a 1” sandwich that I will route out a pocket to join in the main floor area that is solid. If once I open up the siding and I find more surprises… well we will regroup….

Thanks

John
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Old 03-07-2010, 04:28 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB

Now working on acquiring the rolls if Butyl tape and floor board. I’m thinking 3/4” pressure treated for the bottom and 1/4” glued and screwed to the top to make a 1” sandwich that I will route out a pocket to join in the main floor area that is solid. If once I open up the siding and I find more surprises… well we will regroup….

Thanks

John
John,

I'm glad to have been helpful to you..

Your solution to the materials choice sounds great. I don't believe you'll find too much damage to the bottom of the wall, since the Darco is wrapped around the edge of the floor. An exception might be, where the screws went in. Water could have very easily wicked it's way up the screws.

BTW: Congrats, on becoming a moderator...
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Old 03-07-2010, 07:38 PM   #34
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Hi John,

The Heartland forum picture only showed the delamination that was occurring on the edge of the plywood. I can't figure out how to post a good link to that. The photo I posted in the thread was the Big Horn's drip edge. You can't see it well, but it's maybe a 3/4" plastic angle piece that slides under the horizontal strip and around the bottom of the plastic coated plywood, thereby covering the exposed edge of the plywood. As long as the seal above it remains caulked there should never be a problem. I'll try to get a better pic when I actually get my unit, cause I think this is something that should be included on all coaches.

My Sunline fifth wheel was a 2005 and still had the darco wrapped slideouts, for the record. I wasn't sunline-bashing, but I do think they should have had the foresight to somehow seal up those screw holes, which caused your problem.

Re: Darco, I would try Blevins Mobile Home Supply...there's a location in New Castle, OH which isn't too far from you. They have excellent prices. Otherwise, you can try a local mobile home parts supply place. It might be worth walking into one of those stores locally and talk to the folks there, as they also usually perform service and might have some different or creative things you can try with regards to your slideout.

www.blevinsinc.com

Good luck!
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:52 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD_Driver

John,

I'm glad to have been helpful to you..

Your solution to the materials choice sounds great. I don't believe you'll find too much damage to the bottom of the wall, since the Darco is wrapped around the edge of the floor. An exception might be, where the screws went in. Water could have very easily wicked it's way up the screws.

BTW: Congrats, on becoming a moderator...
Gary,

I’m still trying to get up off the floor laughing from your helper dudes….. I had to back track on how you got them in here. H’mm linked em in from your web site.

I have the butyl tape on order. Boy that was a ordeal. You know how many brands there are? Like shopping for band aides or worse tooth paste…. So I stuck with a brand name I could find product data sheets on and then hunted the price.

http://www.schneemorehead.com/index.htm

http://www.schneemorehead.com/pdf-sm/SM5011TDS.pdf

Today I attacked getting the Eternabond off. What a job… until I could figure out a method. And gald the first time was on aluminum and not the rubber roof… I got it off and cleaned up. That stuff is incredible.

The before. It covered the flange area.


The after. All the way up to the top of the slide. So that prep work is done.


I did another day of dry it out with the heater/fan blowing. And dug out an last loose stuff and blew it all out with compressed air. It has now at least stopped festering in there until I can surgically remove it.

I added 2 filler strips to take some load when the slide is in. I “think” the sill plate above is good as the Darco protected that area like you said and the screws went in solid. Plus I had to unscrew one of the ones that were holding the floor up. Amazingly the screw was not rusted much. The OSB was 100% gone around it. It was right where this filler strip is. The screw backed out hard like it was in solid wood. So that was encouraging.

If the weather cooperates next weekend we may sneak out camping. I folded up and taped up the Darco and retracted the slide. Then after next weekend for 2 weekends straight we are on Grand Kid sitting duty so I’ll tear into it them. And once all my supplies show up. I have to take up the inside stuff too. Couch and storage mod I did under it.

Here is the filler board in place, solid.


Thanks

John
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:59 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihsolutions
Hi John,

The Heartland forum picture only showed the delamination that was occurring on the edge of the plywood. I can't figure out how to post a good link to that. The photo I posted in the thread was the Big Horn's drip edge. You can't see it well, but it's maybe a 3/4" plastic angle piece that slides under the horizontal strip and around the bottom of the plastic coated plywood, thereby covering the exposed edge of the plywood. As long as the seal above it remains caulked there should never be a problem. I'll try to get a better pic when I actually get my unit, cause I think this is something that should be included on all coaches.


www.blevinsinc.com

Good luck!
Jeff

Thanks for trying on the drip edge. When you get yours, it would be interesting how they retract the slide and not tear up the drip edge.

Rich 2500 added a strip to his which does about what the Heartland strip does. Wonder how his retracts and does not rip it off. I looked today on mine and there is not a lot of room for much hanging down from the slide bottom.

I agree the drip edge will go a long way to break the wicking action.

Oh and thanks for the Belvins tip. They are about and hour from here near Springfield OH.

Thanks

John
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:12 AM   #37
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John I have no problems with the plastic angle catching,but when I installed it I made sure that I went all the way in to the taper cut on the slide floor that way the edge of the plastic angle never goes out past the sill plate so that no edge can catch,in order to install that angle I had to open the slide about 3/4 of the way to get clearance to get the angle up under the floor(didn't have to worry about the angle breaking it is very flexible)to fasten it along the bottom I used my air stapler and stapled about every 3 inches,good luck with your repair John looks like you got a bit of a project ahead of you.here is the pvc angle I usedhttp://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:21 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihsolutions

My Sunline fifth wheel was a 2005 and still had the darco wrapped slideouts, for the record. I wasn't sunline-bashing, but I do think they should have had the foresight to somehow seal up those screw holes, which caused your problem.
Jeff, I fogot this last night. My statement was geared to the TT line when Sunline started converting to the plastic bonded board in 2005. And I really do not know when in that model year or if all 05’s have it or not. There may be a mix out there. Little by little we keep putting the pieces of Sunline history back togehter. I had forgot your 5er was an 05 so they did not make the switch at least when yours was made or maybe even in the 5er line. Point in what I was stating was the 2005 ish time frame seems to be when the RV industry has started to switch the slide floors construction. And the drip edge seems to be the next evolution from the plastic bonded board. Which is a good one. And yes, I wish they would of filled those holes in the Darco. Odds are very high I would not have had a problem. That was a clear miss on Sunlines part for sure.

Hind site is 20/20. By the time they realize there is a problem they already have many units out in the field and pending use, some may never show the issue. I “think” mine was on a seasonal site for about 2 ½ years as there was not much towing done on it before I got it. I could tell by the brakes etc. Folks who leave their slide out all the time on seasonal sites and are not even in them during the week do not do these slides much justice. It could takes years to accumulate the weather effects of a slide open with semi normal camping moving from site to site and only weekends verses being open 100% of the time on a seasonal site. Even the seals get sun cooked with the slide open. Like tires, they only last so long due to the sun.

Good luck with your new camper, So when does it come in? New campers are always good times.
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:02 AM   #39
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SUN #778
Viking is an unknown quantity at this point
As I was reading about your troubles with the slides, a thought came to mind (it doesn't happen too often these days).
If the issue is wicking moisture, would a watershedding spray, such as silicone, help prevent that?
Also, on unprotected edges of plywood or similar materials, would waterseal, such as Thompson's, help seal and prevent absorption.
Roar
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:30 AM   #40
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SUN #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich2500
John I have no problems with the plastic angle catching,but when I installed it I made sure that I went all the way in to the taper cut on the slide floor that way the edge of the plastic angle never goes out past the sill plate so that no edge can catch,in order to install that angle I had to open the slide about 3/4 of the way to get clearance to get the angle up under the floor(didn't have to worry about the angle breaking it is very flexible)to fasten it along the bottom I used my air stapler and stapled about every 3 inches,good luck with your repair John looks like you got a bit of a project ahead of you.here is the pvc angle I usedhttp://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053
Rich

Thanks for that link. Now I know the angle you have. You have a 2005. Does yours have the coated bottom? I don’t know where in the 05 models they switched. With the switch they also changed the trough. If yours has the coated bottom, they changed from a formed metal trough to a different type that had nylon wear pads to help cut down on the friction.

See here my metal trough. The trough acts like a cam and kicks the slide up in the air off the carpet when the slide starts retracting. It then supports the Darco board the rest of the way in. My trough goes past the end of the slide floor. And it looks like I would prune off anything hanging down below. See these pics and compare to yours. I only looked quick at the one 2005 T280SR on how it was built and did not memorize that trough area. There may even be a roller or 2 in there along with the nylon pads. Yours may stop short of the end of the slide floor. Or if I’m missing something, please point it out. The drip strip is a great idea if I can figure out how to implement.

Here is the trough with the slide full out. It is dropped down in the lower part now.


Trough runs the entire length


And the outside is sealed up.


Here is the slide just starting in. Slide floor now up on the metal trough. This is where “I think” I would tear off the drip edge. This is also where this vintage slide can tear the Darco. They polished the metal than that helps.


Here is the trough outside now once lifted inside


Some more slide travel


Then full in


And looking under it when full in. You can see the siding holding strip here. This pic is on the other end. The drip edge may contact the carpet but the wall.


Does yours work this way?

Thanks for your help.

John
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Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

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