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Old 02-12-2020, 07:57 AM   #1
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Repairing wood damage

Hey guys just have a quick question. Im replacing support boards on the floor and on the back wall that have rotted out due to water damage. My question is, im new to all this and am having issues connecting my new wood to parts of the supports that are still okay. Im using metal connector brackets to make sure they are good and in there. Is this going to effect how my panels sit? Should i take all the brackets off and go another route?? Thank you in advance!
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:39 PM   #2
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Hi LeAnn,

Is there a way you can post a few pics so we can see what you are up against? And better tell you some methods on how to fix?

As a big picture general statement, when I cut bad wood out and want to replace the bad with new, the ideal is to replace the entire board if is a lot of rot. But there are times that is not practical or the rot is short. In these cases we do what we call "sister" a new board next to the joint of new and old. This creates rigidity across the joint to give the floor joists structural load carrying ability similar to what it had originally.

For example. A floor joist that is 8 feet long, the full width of the camper has 3 feet of rot on one end. In this case, due to what else is affected, it is complex to replace the entire board. I would add the 3 new feet butted up tight to replace the old, and use a splice board about 1 ft to 1 1/2' ft long on each side of the joint (2 to 3ft long) and glue and screw the splice board on across the joint.

Not sure how you are applying the metal plates. There are all kinds of metal plate splices now a days in the lumber yard. The may be OK or not. Need to see what you are thinking to tell better.

Hope this helps.

I'll see if I can find a generic pic of the sistering feature and post.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:56 PM   #3
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I did not find a left to right floor joist "sistering" splice, but I did find an outer band board sister splice to help show the principal.

The lower outside band board has much rot to it.




I cut out all the bad wood back to sound wood. The ends of the floor joists were sound/solid, but had a water stains. I treated those ends with a dry rot fungus treatment to kill and seal the wood to not later dry rot apart.


Then I create a sistering splice. A new board is added behind the good board and screwed in place. This allows me to add a new board where the old one came out and be attached well.


Then the new board clamped in place to later screw in



Each case is a little different about how and when to sister across a joint. In this case, there was 2 metal frame supports under the rotted band board. The sistered joint could be short as the metal frame supports were holding all the weight and not the old to new joint.

Hope this helps

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Old 02-13-2020, 06:20 AM   #4
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Im using something like this on top of the two boards to pull them together. This is only what ive done so far and now ans questioning if i need to go a different route before i proceed on
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:38 PM   #5
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Hi LeAnn,

Your thoughts of using plates the way you are, will interfere with new wall board being able to sit flush and smooth to the surface. With only a plate on one side, the joint of the 2 pieces is not very rigid. If you are doing plates in this case, you would need 2 per joint. There are cheaper methods that are strong, create a flat surface for the wall board, the siding, and a lot less cost per joint. There are some other issues as well with trying to repair a camper from only on the inside. It is how the siding is attached.

It appears the wall may have been opened up and had some level of repair before you started on this project. Possibly a prior owner maybe? Do you have any pics of the wall framing, even rotted out, when you removed the bad wall board? This can help confirm it was original or a fix by a prior owner.

Sunline traditionally had vertical wall studs approx every 16" on center. And they would of been thin, on your vintage camper may only have had 3/4" thick x 1 1/2" wide or close to that width, wall framing. By your picture, are the wood being used made from a 2 x 4? Meaning 1 1/2" actual x 3 1/2" actual boards?

We can help show you how the wall should be to support the window, the siding and how to splice into old wood. And, we can help suggest when it may be easier to just replace the entire board then splicing into it. There is also an issue that the siding needs to be attached to the wall studs from the outside to create both rigidity in the camper and to ensure the siding does not come off.

These types of rotted out walls are often better repaired by carefully removing the corner moldings, the windows and the siding so they can be reused. Rebuild the rotted out wood wall framing, any rotted out flooring wood, install the wall board, insulate it, then staple the siding back on, Using new fresh butyl sealing tape, seal the window to the siding, any other siding penetrations, tail lights etc, and the corner molding back on to prevent water leaks from getting in and ruining your hard work. The inside wallboard can be added before the wall frame is put back in place or after the wall frame is on camper from the inside.

Here are some of the many threads we have on the forum that may help. These have lots of pictures in them to show what they had and what the repaired.

This first one is by Sunline Fan taking his 1979 project camper apart. While he is still rebuilding it, it shows the basic methods Sunline used on wall framing on your vintage camper.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...-mc-18647.html

This post by Thomascine shows how she rebuilt the entire front wall and floor on her 1987 camper. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...air-17458.html

Here is another by Yellow Jacket on his 1987 camper. https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...ion-19403.html

This is one of mine, it is a step by step post I started on how to repair a front wall on a 2004 camper. I did not finish the post yet, but it is a good start to help get you going. This camper is made a little different than yours, thicker wood and a few different techniques as Sunline changed the methods as time went on.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...2-a-18706.html

There are many other posts too, I did not want to overload you all at once, but those are a start. We can point you to others as you want/need more.

To your first question on making wood joints and not using metal plates, there are a few ways. One is to use large wood staples. Sunline used this method as it was fast and held up well. It however, needs a large stapler, and air compressor to run the stapler most times to drive the staples. The staples are as cheap as you can get, but the tools cost. Other cheaper methods is to use a pocket hole screw system. Kreg is one brand of the tool used to create pocket hole joints with screws that are inserted cross grain in the wood to create a very strong and tight joint.

Kreg, makes a lot of these tools. https://www.kregtool.com/ They make so many different tools now, it may be hard to know where to start.

Here is a simple 1 hole drill jig to drill the pocket screw holes. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Kreg-Poc...J310/310410042

Here is a simple 2 hole drill jig. It costs a little more, but can speed up the time to make a joint on short and wider boards.
https://www.amazon.com/Kreg-R3-Pocke...s%2C179&sr=8-2

Once you buy the tool, then all you buy are the screws for the length needed on the thickness of the wood. There are lots of ways on how to use these pocket hole screws, here is a few of them.

This shows a repair on a back wall of a Sunline slide camper. The rear wall of a slide camper is built a little different than your non slide camper, but this shows the Kreg screw process.

The lower bottom was rotted out from a corner molding leak. I cut out the bad wood. Treated good solid wood that was water stained with Rot Dr resin to prevent future dry rot, then pocket hole screwed on new wood. We nicknamed the pocket hole screwing as "Kreg screw it".

Here is the rotted out bottom board.




Then cut out the bad wood. In this case we did replace the bottom with a 2 x 4" board. The walls on this vintage camper are 1 1/2" thick. The wider board allowed me to cut off the ends of the wall studs to make a clean joint for the wider board.




Then we Kreg it. Here is the process. In this case I used the 1 hole Kreg jig as it was small enough to get in the space I had on the camper.
Clamp the drill jig in place


Drill the hole with the special Kreg bit


The hole is on an angle and creates a counterbored hole for the screw to fit in.


Then pick the correct screw for the width of the boards you are joining.
In this case of 1 1/2" thick, we use a 2 1/2" lg screw. The screw head is below the surface when screwed in making it a flush wall


The lower board all replaced using Kreg screws


Here is a front wall having wall studs and the bottom of a window frame, Kreg'ed in place. You can see the all new wood and the pocket holes in the wood end joints.

The front wall frame rebuilt.


A close up of the Kreg'ed in place wall studs. There are 2 screws per end of the stud. Again, this is a 1 1/2" thick wall. In some places we can have 1 screw on each side of the stud making 2 screws per stud OR if we cannot get the drill in to screw in the board, we can put 2 screws on the same side.


A even closer pic


The Kreg method when applied correctly is a very strong joint and once you have the drill jig tool, the cost per joint is only the price of the screws which are about $0.11 each screw for a 2 1/2" screws in a box of 250 screws.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask away with questions. Pics really help show what you are up against and talking about.

John
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:58 PM   #6
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Wow this helps tremendously. I will remove the siding the the rear of the camper and show you pictures. I knew after i put all that metal in there it wasn't going to sit flush i just wasnt sure how to attach the supports but i know now. The areas that i have looked at the wood just crumbled by me barely touching it so im sure the damage is a lot worse than what i have looked at. Thank you again John, i hope to put in some good work this weekend. I got a vent to replace the ac along with a kit that has the butyl tape and sealant. If those run smooth i will replace the vent in the bathroom and the refrigerator vent as those are both so sun damaged. Attached are the damages in the bathroom just so you can see. How do i determine what model i have? As i was uncovering the back wall i see someone wrote 84 on it...so maybe i have an 84?
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:03 PM   #7
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Here is the outside and also the bathroom damage
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:48 PM   #8
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Looks like a T1550.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:16 PM   #9
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Oh good! Ive been wondering
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:16 PM   #10
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definitely a 1559, I have the same one. Maybe a different year, mines an ‘84.
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeAnn View Post
Talking about roofing....i have an aluminum top or metal top. Im replacing all the roof vents and might as well pull it up to check all the bad wood. Do i have to pull thr back wall siding up to pull the top off?
Hi LeAnn,

These 2 pics of yours tell a story,





You do have a metal roof. They are built different then the Sunline rubber roofs that came in the later Sunlines. You really do not want to lift up your metal camper roof to just check it. There are other ways to check if the roof system is rotted wood above the ceiling and we will get into them.

After you check it, it may then be determined the damage is bad enough, you have to lift the roof off to do the repairs. And in the case of the metal roof, this is an involved process.

The Sunline metal roof is made of smaller sheets of metal which are seamed together approx. every few feet of running length left to right on the camper roof. And it is also seemed to the front and rear siding to make the waterproof joints. The seams were intended to be permanent.

Technically there is a way to lift off the entire roof in one large piece along with the front and rear seemed siding if it comes to that, but it gets complex on how to do this and then reuse the entire roof again.

Some members having a metal roof camper and large roof system rot, cut the metal at the front and rear wall and then installed a whole new rubber roof as one method of keeping the camper.

But first, lets help you find out and better understand how good or bad your roof system is.

A place to start is with pictures. Inside and on the roof. Please post outside pictures of the whole roof and closer ones of areas you think are bad.

Inside, take more ceiling pictures to show the whole camper ceiling. You will most likely will have to do this in several pics as you can't get the entire ceiling in one shot.

We can tell most times from the pics of the ceiling and the top of the walls, if there is large damage above the ceiling that can help determine the roof has to come off or not.

The 2 pics above you posted, suggest there is an amount of water damage in the attic of the camper. The unknown now is, is it localized or is it wide spread? Knowing how big an area is, will help guide you on to lift the entire roof off or just a small section on one end.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 02-16-2020, 03:28 AM   #12
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Okay i can definitely post more pictures of the interior later today. The overall condition of the top shell looks pretty good with no blemishes besides some extra screw holes drilled into the surroundings of the bathroom vent. Which i will cover with eternabond unless you think flex seal and then the self leveling over it will be enough. Im not sure what all that brown sealant and fiberglass stuff was up there but it did take me a lot of time to take what i got off even with the heat gun haha. Still need to clean it up better, saw in a post where you talked about mineral spirits and alcohol which is the route im going. I didn't think pulling the top off would entail all of that so anyway around all those hassles if i dont have to would obviously be the better option.
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Old 02-19-2020, 05:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeAnn View Post
Okay i can definitely post more pictures of the interior later today. The overall condition of the top shell looks pretty good with no blemishes besides some extra screw holes drilled into the surroundings of the bathroom vent. Which i will cover with eternabond unless you think flex seal and then the self leveling over it will be enough. Im not sure what all that brown sealant and fiberglass stuff was up there but it did take me a lot of time to take what i got off even with the heat gun haha. Still need to clean it up better, saw in a post where you talked about mineral spirits and alcohol which is the route im going. I didn't think pulling the top off would entail all of that so anyway around all those hassles if i dont have to would obviously be the better option.
Hi LeAnn,

Looking forward to your pics. Get some of the roof too so we can see what you have in relation to the inside pictures. Glad the roof looks good. Sunline changed the methods/techniques of how they built the campers as years went by. Subtle changes, but yet changes. Having pics of your older one inside and out helps us tell what you exactly have and then we can give better advice on what to consider when repairing it.

The Flex Seal products, personally I would not use them as a long term repair on a camper. A leak in a camper can be a real bad thing, and even worse after you did a lot of repair to it. I have not used them, but I have heard of others that the results were not lasting. Do not know if it was a product issue, or they did not prep the surface correctly. Yes, Eternabond is rated for metal and it is one way to make a permanent over small holes. And yes, then you can use the Dicor lap sealant on the exposed edges of the Eternabond so dir will not stick to that small exposed edge.

Mineral spirits is a good cleaner and it will not lift the paint but it leaves a oily residue. So a high flash cleaner needs to follow its use to take the residue off. Alcohol will work, or Naphtha which some lumber yards sell.

John
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Old 02-19-2020, 05:25 PM   #14
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While you are taking pics, this picture seems to indicate wood rot on the frame of the vent opening. Can't tell by that one pic, but whenever a roof vent or any roof item is removed, you can see some into the attic area and take a look with a flashlight. If the rafters are rotted or the framing, that is something that should be addressed. And be careful that you not putting pressure from your weight when on the roof over any rotted area.

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Old 02-27-2020, 05:13 AM   #15
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Yes John the framing at that opening and over the bathroom is definitely damaged. As i was cleaning up the old putty one of the pieces of the framing completely crumbled and is now fallen off. Where the ac unit was the framing around it looked good and sturdy. Sorry i havent uploaded pictures, have been going through lots of rainy days on my days off so shes been covered up. I hope to get out there this weekend. All my sealants and covers should be here as well. Ill upload some better pictures then as im addressing the rot i have up there.
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Old 03-06-2020, 04:50 PM   #16
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Many days filled with rain and work has limited my time on the work. I haven't been back on the roof but did get all the parts in to be able to complete the job...after i replace the wood that is. Attached are some pictures of the wood....most all of it is rotted. So thatll all need replaced. Pulled out the furnace and the framing on that was rotted as well. So its looking like a lot of work but im ready for it. Also something is concerning...the back is sitting on the frame and the siding is sagging in that area. Ive seen a few videos on youtube on fixing that. Any info that would be helpful on my rebuild would be great! Thank you so much John for all of your helpful information!
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Old 03-06-2020, 04:53 PM   #17
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Heres a few more pictures
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Old 03-06-2020, 11:08 PM   #18
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Also something is concerning...the back is sitting on the frame and the siding is sagging in that area. Ive seen a few videos on youtube on fixing that. Any info that would be helpful on my rebuild would be great! Thank you so much John for all of your helpful information!
When you see sagging siding, especially on the bottom layer, this often points to the wood behind it it totally rotted out. There is not enough wood structure left to support the weight above and the siding is left trying to hold the weight. The siding itself cannot hold the weight above in a vertical direction. The siding can add a level of stiffness left to right to the wall, but is has to be attached to solid wood wall studs.

Is this pic of the sagging siding?


If so, what I listed above fits that look. The bottom row of screws along the bottom siding sheet with the rusted heads, is a tell tale sign that the screws are actually rusting from the inside out. The wood is wet behind the siding, it rusts the screw threads and over time, the corrosion keeps spreading into the head of the screw to finally corrode out to wear you can see it.

To fix this properly, you remove the bottom row of screws and the 2 corners moldings. The siding comes off starting at the bottom and working you way up the wall. The siding is stapled on the top of each layer until you reach the roof area. Pull the staples out and the siding will come off. Be careful to try and not damage the siding. You can staple it back on once you fix the wood behind it.

This link will show you one way to get the staples out. It will drop you in the middle a long camper rebuild post to the spot showing the siding staples coming off.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...tml#post137481

You may also find the wood studs rot went around to the side walls. In that case, the bottom few siding sheets may need to come off on the side walls as needed. Hoping the rot does not go all the way up the side wall, and if so, then more siding needs to come off.

This link will show one way to repair the bottoms of the wall studs, assuming the rot is only approx 6" up the wall. See the 6th post down for the bottom wall stud repair. If the entire back wall is rotted, then you need to repair more wood and a different repair process then just the bottom 6" like I was talking about. And sometimes it may be easier to just build the entire new back wall if it is rotter badly enough. When you get the siding off, post a pic and we can see how much rot there is and better suggest how to repair. Later in this post, it shows cleaning up the siding, molding and how to put the siding back on.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...avy-16834.html

Odds are also high, if the back wall is rotted baldy, it takes some of the floor joists along with it. The floor joists need to be solid to hold up the walls.

Hope this helps and askaway on any questions.

John
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Old 03-22-2020, 07:16 AM   #19
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Here are a few pictures of the damage. Tasks today are to put the vents into the roof so i can move onto the back wall and flooring. The wood isnt damaged further than the vents so im thankful for that. Here are just a few pictures i snapped to show some damage i came across
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File Type: jpg 20200321_123228.jpg (91.2 KB, 4 views)
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Old 03-29-2020, 07:34 AM   #20
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Got the fridge vent in and moved onto the back wall. I noticed floor sagging more by the water heater so i pulled that out. Wow the whole floor and floor joists completely gone....the whole bottom of the water heater was gone as well, glad i pulled it! So now today im pulling the rest of the back panelling and window off to see the full extent of how far it goes up. Question is, im a little confused on how to get the back wall up high enough for me to put the back bottom piece in and also the floor joists?? Maybe I missed some posts somewhere?? Im pretty positive the wood is rotted on both sides as well but that will be another day. Getting a lot more comfortable with tool use so this is turning out to be a pretty fun task!
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