Gould/ITE circuit breakers?

[frank_a]

My '83 Sunline has a Gould/ITE box and one 15 amp breaker. I would dearly like to find compatible breakers in 15/15 and 30/20 tandems.

Pics here are of the one 15 amp single pole single 15 amp breaker in my load center. It is 2 3/4 deep, 2 7/8 high, 7/8 wide. It hooks into power at the top and locks into a tab on bottom, which can be seen on pic "gould1" where the load center attachment point is at the top left and locking tab on the bottom left. Pic 2 is the bottom of the breaker (front towards the left), pic 3 is the back, and pic 4 is the label on the front under the breaker switch.

Any help with availability of NLA breakers or better yet, current compatible breakers in 15/15 and 30/20 would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

Frank

[mainah]

Looks like a Seimans Take one to the big box store and match it up.

[frank_a]

That's what I plan to do mainah, just thought maybe somebody would go "Oh yeah, it's a (whatever)!" Oh well, no biggie. I need to put this load center thing to bed, either the one I have will do or not.

Still haven't found the earth ground, but no lack of looking. Wish I had a concrete pad I could park this baby on and not be rolling around in gravel!

Other than that, we're packing for our first camping trip, off next Friday to Letchworth State Park (NY), looking forward to it. Shake down cruise?

Thanks,

Frank

[mainah]

Your converter/charger should have a ground lug on it with a copper wire going through the floor the frame grounding point will be very close.

[frank_a]

I'll keep looking mainah, but have not had much luck. Been concentrating under the load center, but have looked most of the back. Will take a look under the converter tonight. Guess as long as everything works and I don 't get shocked it can wait till I park somewhere other than on gravel. Just got a price on a 20 X 20 concrete pad for the old homestead...

Picked up an HOMT 1515 CP breaker at Home Depot this a.m., looks like it might work. Not sure what the CP stands for. Can find HOMT 3020 plain on the web, but no CP; not sure it's the same. Will determine if this HOMT 1515 CP breaker I got this morning will work when I get home after work today, then go from there. Sure would save me a lot of time not having to switch that Gould/ITE box out!

Enjoy your day sir.

Frank

[frank_a]

Fooling around trying to find breakers for this old box got old quick, so tonight after work I removed it and installed a similar modern Square D Homelite 70 amp 2 pole, 4 circuit box. I added an additional hole in the back of the box for a 3rd screw, as this panel is longer than the original one. It came with an integrated neutral buss. Used the old copper ground buss from the other box, screwing it down to the only existing hole for a machine screw.

Got it all wired up, but am tripping the circuit that everything but the frig is on. Frig circuit works fine. Got an HOMT1515 CP tandem breaker in. Will figure it out tomorrow - stiff, sore and it's getting dark. (Got dark early, have had some major thunderstorms rolling through!) I clipped a bit of each wire end to have clean ends on all the wires.

What I thought was a grey wire is a heavy aluminum ground. I still can't find any earth ground location(s) under the trailer. Didn't look too hard tonight, but looked under the converter and didn't see anything.

I'll get back at this after work tomorrow and re-examine all my connections. Other than working in a small space in a small trailer, I do count this sort of stuff as fun. I love bringing old stuff new life.

Frank

[frank_a]

I bought some 12-2 wire today (out at home), so I can rewire from both the frig and box the other circuit comes from. I'm doing this mostly because I had to tug on the old lines to get enough line to wire things up. I can't imagine this is why I'm tripping one of the two breakers, but need to do the new lines anyways just so the load center looks good. Can;'t be all about function, need some aesthetics too. Wife has decreed we need lights for our 1st weekend trip, NOT the frig! Who am I to argue?

Ordered a 30 amp RV cord and 30-15 adapter today. Won't have it before the weekend trip, but need it if I'm running two 15 amp circuits right?

More pics soon.

Frank

[MACK C-85]

Ordered a 30 amp RV cord and 30-15 adapter today. Won't have it before the weekend trip, but need it if I'm running two 15 amp circuits right?

I'm assuming you are going to use the 30 amp cord to feed the box and using a 30-15 amp adaptor to hook into a standard house recepticle??

Assuming you're placing a 30 amp cord on the box....

No, actually you can have three circuits. You might want to consider a 30/20 tandem breaker for your future air conditioner (or do you know it only needs a 15 amp circuit?)

When you get your 30 amp cord you are going to want to put the #10 wire from the cord on the 30 amp breaker which will become your "MAIN" and put a piece of #10 wire between the two lugs on the box. The power will then come in through the 30 amp "MAIN" and backfeed the buses in the box. Then you would either have 3-15 amp circuits, using a 30/15 tandem breaker or 2-15's and a 20 if you get a 30/20 tandem.

I would set it up like this:

30 Amp = MAIN
20 AMP = Future Air Condtioner
15 Amp = REFRIGERATOR
15 Amp = General Service Outlets

This will give you overall 30 amp protection of your box, and still allow for three service circuits. You'll find this is how most trailers are wired.

BTW - If you are adapted into a 15 amp recepticle, you're only going to have 15 amps to work with regardless of how many circuits are in the trailer.

Mack

[frank_a]

Originally Posted by MACK C-85

I'm assuming you are going to use the 30 amp cord to feed the box and using a 30-15 amp adaptor to hook into a standard house recepticle??

Yes, unless campsites only have a 15 amp plug-in...

Assuming you're placing a 30 amp cord on the box....

Yes.

No, actually you can have three circuits. You might want to consider a 30/20 tandem breaker for your future air conditioner (or do you know it only needs a 15 amp circuit?)

That is what I plan on doing.

When you get your 30 amp cord you are going to want to put the #10 wire from the cord on the 30 amp breaker which will become your "MAIN" and put a piece of #10 wire between the two lugs on the box. The power will then come in through the 30 amp "MAIN" and backfeed the buses in the box. Then you would either have 3-15 amp circuits, using a 30/15 tandem breaker or 2-15's and a 20 if you get a 30/20 tandem.

I would set it up like this:

30 Amp = MAIN
20 AMP = Future Air Condtioner
15 Amp = REFRIGERATOR
15 Amp = General Service Outlets

This will give you overall 30 amp protection of your box, and still allow for three service circuits. You'll find this is how most trailers are wired.

That is what I want to do. May need a little help at the time with the set-up, but that's the deal I want to do. Gonna keep that 15 amp circuit for the frig, because next year we hope to get a 3 way (frig).

BTW - If you are adapted into a 15 amp recepticle, you're only going to have 15 amps to work with regardless of how many circuits are in the trailer.Maybe that's why one of my tandem 15 amp circuits is tripping? Plugged into a 20 amp circuit with a 15 amp cord. Everything worked before though when everything was on a single pole 15 amp breaker...

Mack

Take care and enjoy your day!

[mainah]

I think this is what you are looking for RV Double Breaker - 20-30 Amp - TBBD3020

[frank_a]

Well mainah, not gonna make much difference at this point. All these decades of doing simple household wiring, never a problem. I replace this load center and keep blowing a circuit. So tonight I replaced the wires going to it, made sure everything was tight, same exact thing as the old load center, still blowing a circuit. Replaced the breaker, no change. For about 6 hours of work, it's kind of discouraging. Any ideas would be helpful, as I am at a loss, and looking forward to a weekend camping across the state with no power except the frig. Whippee.

Maybe I'm missing something here with these tandem breakers. One black wire one side, one black wire the other right? Grounds and neutral stay the same? I checked the fuses in the converter, not knowing any different, but they're fine. Also found where the earth ground goes, but from inside the cable compartment at the bottom.

I really don't get what I'm doing wrong. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. I have a few hours tomorrow after work I could play with it again before we leave Friday a.m.

By the way, I thought I was looking for an HOMT3020?

Thanks,

Frank

[frank_a]

Most everything I can find on the net about tripping circuits describes 5 potential problems:

• An Overload -- when electrical usage would have begun to overheat a circuit's wires
• A Short Circuit -- very high current resulting from a fault on the circuit
• An Overheating Breaker -- when the breaker itself has poor contacts or connections
• A Ground-Fault -- leakage off of the intended circuit. In this I include shock hazards, neutral to ground faults, and the differing current on the neutral wire when it is being shared by another circuit.
• An Arc-Fault -- sparking happening on the circuit or its lights or appliances

I pretty much can eliminate the 1st one, as a week ago everything was on one single circuit and worked.

A fault on the circuit? Just from changing the load center? Where could it be?

The breaker is new and very tight.

I found the earth ground connection last night, but the bottom line is everything worked before I installed a new load center. Nothing changed.

Isn't it a bit too coincidental right when I change load center one whole circuit starts shorting out from an arc-fault?

I know another rare problem is things not tight. That is not the problem here - everything is very tight.

At least I have 12V stuff... I think. I've had the battery unhooked to do this interior work. I'll give that a try tonight. Can't get out in the a.m. before work, need to watch the puppy!

Hope you folks are all doing better than me!

Frank

[Jim-Bev-2363]

Frank, You did say you pulled on the wires so they would reach. Maybe you cut the insulation creating a short.

The only way to know what is wrong is to double check everything. Wiring in the outlets, a light switch or even a non-used wire like the old fridge wiring could be done wrong and need correcting. Checking/tracing all the wiring is the only way to find out what is wrong.

[Jim-Bev-2363]

My guess is for a misplaced wire, #4 in your reason list.

[frank_a]

Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363

Frank, You did say you pulled on the wires so they would reach. Maybe you cut the insulation creating a short.

The only way to know what is wrong is to double check everything. Wiring in the outlets, a light switch or even a non-used wire like the old fridge wiring could be done wrong and need correcting. Checking/tracing all the wiring is the only way to find out what is wrong.

I pulled on both wires Jim. Frig circuit still works (that also powers the shower vent fan, that still works too). Other wire goes to an outlet just above the load center. So I figured I'd just replace the whole wire, which I did last night. Still tripping the circuit. So maybe it's the outlet? Removed it and wire-nutted the power, neutral and grounds. Still tripping the circuit. The other wire tied into that outlet disappears down and under the floor, just back of where the chassis earth ground is connected. I assume that line goes to the power converter, and all the lights are powered from there with 110V and 12V? Not sure how this all works. But did not pull on any other wires other than the two feeding the load center, and replaced the one that keeps tripping the circuit.

I wired an entire old house years ago, and have helped wire other peoples' homes or additions. I don't know how to use an ohm meter or how to check for continuity, but have always been good with being careful and have never had problems like this. On the 12V side, I completely wired my hot rod, and have wired many people's boat and utility trailers. This is very frustrating to me, as you might imagine, but never fear, I will save my pennies and take it to somebody who knows how to use an ohm meter and check for continuity. Not right away though, need to collect pennies.

Frank

[frank_a]

Just ordered an HOMT3020 from the local electrical supply place. Ten dollars and twenty cents. Checked with the local travel trailer place, 90 bucks an hour...

Things could be worse.

Frank

[Jim-Bev-2363]

Frank, Usually the ceiling fan in the bath, exhaust fan, is a 12V. And, I think you said they had a dorm sized fridge that is a 110V appliance. I am confused why there would be a 110V and a 12V appliance running from the same breaker.

You should have two different power supplies. One is your 110V house current and another completely seperate system is the 12V items in the camper. If your saying the fan is on the same breaker as the fridge then you might mean the converter and the fridge are on the same circuit, not just the bath fan.

You have a double mini breaker so why not try the converter on one circuit and the fridge on another. That could let you test each circuit by itself. Maybe even turning off the converter or the fridge when powering up could tell you which circuit is bad.

[frank_a]

That could be Jim (the 12v fan), I was just guessing.

I disconnected the frig circuit and plugged the other line into the one the frig was working on, and it still tripped.

Just replaced the license plate light, that works, but couldn't find 12v power at the marker light that isn't working. Didn't pierce the wires though. Will get a replacement and see if that works. Marker light looks like it came with the trailer!

Thanks Jim.

Frank

[frank_a]

Just so y'all know, we just got full power back once I jumped the power lugs & put another breaker in. Life is good. Also, one heck of a rainstorm last night & no leaks.

Pics later.

Frank

[Jim-Bev-2363]

You need to take a trip now.