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Old 01-28-2017, 01:20 PM   #21
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I haven't checked the vent yet. I have to get new dicor this week. But would an obstruction in the vent cause continual backups? That is the issue I'm also having along with the glug glug. Backing up even after my deep tank cleaning. I thought any obstruction in the tank itself would be cleared. So could lack of ventilation be the cause of backups?
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Old 01-28-2017, 06:00 PM   #22
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Hi Noralee,

What do you mean by "continual backups"?

Describe what happens after you do a tank dump on an empty tank? And then after several days using the system but before the last use before dumping?

Trying to figure out how good or bad the back up issue is, on an empty tank and then a full tank. And if it progressively gets worse as the tank fills. If that is a significant difference between the 2 extremes, that helps.

I'm "assuming" back up maybe is that the toilet will not flush solids or liquids correctly? Meaning you open the foot valve open to the tank, and everything flows like the tank is somewhat clogged and the waste will not go down? Even just liquids? Is that right?

Thanks

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Old 01-28-2017, 08:35 PM   #23
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Continual backups: the tank is emptied to septic then after a few days solids begin to build up. Liquid drains fine.

The tank seems to back up whether empty or full. There does not seem to be a difference. At first it seemed the issue came because of freezing temps. That contents freeze and obstruct normal flushes. I'd snake it and it's normal for a while then back to clogged. But after I did the deep clean and warm temps for a while and it was still backing up I had to change that theory. I don't recall this happening over the summer so perhaps the cold weather is a factor. But still it should have been normal after deep clean and warm weather.

It seems to no longer be flushing solids properly. Liquids go down fine.

I think I addressed all your questions.

I don't want to pull the vent apart if I don't need to.
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Old 01-28-2017, 09:00 PM   #24
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OK confirm this.

Does the toilet flush to the tank OK? when tank is empty and when full?

I'm trying to understand if the "back up" is the flushing of the toilet action into the tank or the tank draining to the sewer pipe backing up? Or both.

Does solid waste drop through the toilet into the tank OK or does it get hung along the way?

What are the day time temps when you dump the tank?

I agree, don't pull the vent cover just yet until we understand what the "back up" condition is. I'm still not clear where the back up wording is taking place.

Thanks

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Old 01-30-2017, 12:38 AM   #25
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I answered you within your quote.

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OK confirm this.

Does the toilet flush to the tank OK? when tank is empty and when full?
It does, but solids begin to clog from the bottom up. I not sure when it's full anymore bc it's clogged up so I just guess. Sometimes opening tank valve to septic dislodges the clog but other times I have to snake it and it goes right down. It always goes down easily when snaked.

I'm trying to understand if the "back up" is the flushing of the toilet action into the tank or the tank draining to the sewer pipe backing up? Or both. No prob draining to septic. It's an issue with the tank itself it seems. Unless the draining to septic is causing some obstruction that is causing the clogs.

Does solid waste drop through the toilet into the tank OK or does it get hung along the way? It goes down fine but builds up from the bottom.

What are the day time temps when you dump the tank? It varies greatly but obviously not when below freezing.

I agree, don't pull the vent cover just yet until we understand what the "back up" condition is. I'm still not clear where the back up wording is taking place.

Thanks for all this toilet talk, John
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Old 01-30-2017, 01:57 PM   #26
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Hi Noralee,

What you are now describing is something totally different then I had envisioned you were talking about.... Glad I clarified... what back up means...

If I understand this correct, (now), the back up (pile up) is from when flushing solids when they build up in a clump somewhat directly under the toilet opening into the black tank?

Did I get that right?

If that is the problem, we can stop going down the vent path for the moment and I have a few more questions.

1. After you dump the tank to the sewer, do you fill the black tank with a few gallons of water, basically enough to create approx 1/2" to 1" of water in the bottom of the tank before you start using the tank? Look down the hole with a flashlight to see. In my larger tank I use 3 gallons but I have a large flat tank to create the 1/2". You may only need 1 or 2 gallons to create the 1/2".

2. When solid waste is in the toilet (going no 2), before using the toilet, do you fill the bowl with a few inches of water "before" you go? I do not know on your toilet, on ours if you lift the foot flush lever it lets water run into the bowl to fill and not open the valve to dump to the tank. So we can add water before we start. Does yours have this lifting to let water in feature?

Here is something I learned a while ago from a Trailer Life article and works well when solid waste is going to be in the toilet. After you fill the bowl with some water, a few inches worth, using toilet paper (1 to 2 sheets in length and make 2 pieces like that) make an X with the the paper that will float on top of the water. Then do your business. When it comes time to flush, everything slides down no problem and it disperses better in the tank.

If you do not put a small amount of water in the tank before using it, solids and or toilet paper will stick to the tank bottom and accumulate (pile up just below the toilet). The water layer being there helps prevent this as things can start floating as soon as they enter the tank.

If by chance you have very hard water, something that will help soften the water and make it more slippery to dump better is to add a small scoop of Arm and Hammer washing soda pre-mixed up in water and put it in the tank after you have filled the 1/2" to 1" of water. Arm & Hammer Multi-Brand - ARM & HAMMERâ„¢ Super Washing Soda Detergent Booster

I have heard some people using Clagon, but I have never tried that, I use the arm and hammer. I cannot find the USA based web site, but they sell it at the place you buy laundry detergent in liquid and powder. Here is the liquid on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Calgon-Water-...eywords=calgon

Does this sound more like it may help your problem?

John
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:05 PM   #27
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Another question, do you notice that the liquid level in your tank is dropping all by itself? Meaning you are not dumping it, it is going out on it's own.

If this is the case, then your drain valve is leaking and letting liquid out that can aggravate clogging a tank.

John
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Old 01-31-2017, 05:36 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
Another question, do you notice that the liquid level in your tank is dropping all by itself? Meaning you are not dumping it, it is going out on it's own.

If this is the case, then your drain valve is leaking and letting liquid out that can aggravate clogging a tank.

John
I have though of this but if so it's only very slightly. When I do dump it sounds like normal amount of liquid.
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Old 01-31-2017, 05:50 PM   #29
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John, I have answered your questions below and asked some new ones

[QUOTE=JohnB;135541]
If I understand this correct, (now), the back up (pile up) is from when flushing solids when they build up in a clump somewhat directly under the toilet opening into the black tank?

Did I get that right? Yes. Also remember that my toilet pipe is not straight down to the tank. There is a curve before hitting the tank.

1. After you dump the tank to the sewer, do you fill the black tank with a few gallons of water, basically enough to create approx 1/2" to 1" of water in the bottom of the tank before you start using the tank? Look down the hole with a flashlight to see. In my larger tank I use 3 gallons but I have a large flat tank to create the 1/2". You may only need 1 or 2 gallons to create the 1/2".
Sometimes I've done this. My tank is only 10gal. So I've gotten out of the habit. I do recall tho not having this issue in summertime.

2. When solid waste is in the toilet (going no 2), before using the toilet, do you fill the bowl with a few inches of water "before" you go? I do not know on your toilet, on ours if you lift the foot flush lever it lets water run into the bowl to fill and not open the valve to dump to the tank. So we can add water before we start. Does yours have this lifting to let water in feature?
Yes I fill with some water.

Here is something I learned a while ago from a Trailer Life article and works well when solid waste is going to be in the toilet. After you fill the bowl with some water, a few inches worth, using toilet paper (1 to 2 sheets in length and make 2 pieces like that) make an X with the the paper that will float on top of the water. Then do your business. When it comes time to flush, everything slides down no problem and it disperses better in the tank.
Is this true also with the fast disintegrating tp? That's all I use so no build up with that.

If you do not put a small amount of water in the tank before using it, solids and or toilet paper will stick to the tank bottom and accumulate (pile up just below the toilet). The water layer being there helps prevent this as things can start floating as soon as they enter the tank.

If by chance you have very hard water, something that will help soften the water and make it more slippery to dump better is to add a small scoop of Arm and Hammer washing soda pre-mixed up in water and put it in the tank after you have filled the 1/2" to 1" of water. Arm & Hammer Multi-Brand - ARM & HAMMERâ„¢ Super Washing Soda Detergent Booster

I'm not about the water soft/hard. It is from an underground spring and I've not noticed any issue with it.

I have heard some people using Clagon, but I have never tried that, I use the arm and hammer. I cannot find the USA based web site, but they sell it at the place you buy laundry detergent in liquid and powder. Here is the liquid on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Calgon-Water-...eywords=calgon

Isn't this what happy camper is for? I use that sometimes to prevent clumping, clogs. Put a little in the tank after dumping.

Does this sound more like it may help your problem? Not sure yet, but possibly.

How does this new possible explanation fit in with The glug sounds that occur?
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Old 01-31-2017, 08:48 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noralee View Post
I have though of this but if so it's only very slightly. When I do dump it sounds like normal amount of liquid.
Small leaks can be sneaky...

If the dump valve drips at a slow leak rate of 16 oz. (1 pint) per hour, that is 384 oz per day or 3 gallons lost per day. If you dump every 4 days at this rate, you lost 12 gallons of liquid before you dump. A pint is not a lot of leak, more of a dripping rate, but even if you lost half that much, it is still 6 gallons lost every 4 days.

A dump valve leak is not a good thing as you cannot see it being hooked to the sewer line and is hard to see or hear. If you are having solid waste build up under the toilet hole, this most times points to lack of enough liquid at the start of using a clean tank or during use. Either enough water was not put in or it leaked out or a combo of both.

There is another possibility but you may have checked this. After you dump and flush the tank, can you see the black bottom of the tank with a flash light through the flush valve? If yes, then good. If you see sludge or a mini mountain of sludge that can be a problem that your tank is not clearing out and the sludge build up needs to get cleaned out.

Folks with 5th wheels or motor homes, but TT'sas well, on long term stays in one spot have reported build up problems at times in the tank. The 5er/motorhome setup with the longer pipe and a 45 deg bend from the toilet to the tank can aggravate this as you cannot see into the tank and over time and loads of chemicals, sludge builds and creates the pyramid clogs at times. When this gets bad enough, they hire a RV tank cleaning service to come and clean out the sludge. Those of us who camp and travel a lot tend to do more dumping or just plain less camping and the problem does not seem to happen if they flush the tanks at the dump station well enough.

Let us know how this goes. Glad to talk more to try and help.

Thanks

John
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:49 PM   #31
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Quote:
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Small leaks can be sneaky...

If the dump valve drips at a slow leak rate of 16 oz. (1 pint) per hour, that is 384 oz per day or 3 gallons lost per day. If you dump every 4 days at this rate, you lost 12 gallons of liquid before you dump. A pint is not a lot of leak, more of a dripping rate, but even if you lost half that much, it is still 6 gallons lost every 4 days.

Let us know how this goes. Glad to talk more to try and help.

Thanks

John
John, my tank is only 10 gallons and even still I only dump once every 7-10 days. If there was a leak I think I'd have much worse problems by this point. I can hear fluid draining when I dump the tank as well so this seems unlikely.

Also my toilet pipe down to the tank is at angle not straight down so I am unable to see anything past the curve.
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:56 PM   #32
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John, here are some answers and questions I had re your 2x previous post.

I'm not sure about the water soft/hard. It is from an underground spring and I've not noticed any issue with it.

Re using arm and Hammer or other: Isn't this what happy camper is for? I use that sometimes to prevent clumping, clogs. Put a little in the tank after dumping.

Knowing what you know now, what do you think of the glug gurgle sounds?

I also see I misunderstood your point of looking through the dump valve opening to check for obstructions (not through the toilet pipe). I can look into this.

Thank you
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Old 02-02-2017, 10:45 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noralee View Post
I'm not sure about the water soft/hard. It is from an underground spring and I've not noticed any issue with it.

Re using arm and Hammer or other: Isn't this what happy camper is for? I use that sometimes to prevent clumping, clogs. Put a little in the tank after dumping.

Knowing what you know now, what do you think of the glug gurgle sounds?

I also see I misunderstood your point of looking through the dump valve opening to check for obstructions (not through the toilet pipe). I can look into this.
Hi Noralee,

The Arm and Hammer is only to help soften the water. It will not break down any waste. The intent of the soft water make it more slippery and it helps things not stick like hard water can. The Happy Camper, starts the breakdown action of the waste into more of a slurry. They do 2 different things. The arm and hammer is not a mandate, it only helps some times. In this case, I doubt it will cure the problem.

I forgot your toilet down spout pipe has a angle in it. Bummer....

What this sounds like, the gurgle and the clogging/back up "sounds" like you have sludge build up in the tank that won't dump out under normal dumping. And possibly the toilet down spout pipe in the tank has build up under it in that area creating a restriction that makes that area get filled up quickly before the whole tank is full.

A 10 gallon black tank... I forgot that detail too...

If there is some way you can see into the tank with a flash light and maybe a mirror, that would answer the question if the tank indeed does not have build up in it.

They do make inspection cameras that can go into tanks or pipes. If you have a rental place, they may have one you can use and go down the toilet or up through the dump valve. Plumbers use these often. They have a light on them and a flexible cable that can reach inside. But again, this might be a $100 a day rental for a plumber one. A small hand held one with a 3 or 5 foot cable would be all you need. The plumber ones can be in hundreds of feet.

These are somewhat expense to buy for 10 minutes of work for just looking, but it for sure answers the question. The cheapest ones I've seen are the Harbor Freight ones. Digital Inspection Camera

The other more industrial ones start at $300 and up.

That said, if you have a computer friend, I have heard they can create a cheap camera to link to a laptop USB port. I don't know about the lighted ones, but it may be something to look into. Something like this. https://www.amazon.com/waterproof-us...20usb%20camera

John
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Old 02-02-2017, 10:51 PM   #34
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This may help. This guy actual has a business unplugging and cleaning RV holding tanks. He claims he has cleaned 12,000 RV tanks...

TankTechsRX | Totally Green, Totally Clean!

There is a lot of info on that site. He also sells a probiotoc tank treatment product that over time can eat through most what ever is in an RV tank.
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Old 02-02-2017, 11:17 PM   #35
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2" Mirror with Flexible Shaft

If you do a google for HF discount coupons you may (should) find up to 25% off. I never pay full price for HF products.

Also, Walmart very well may have an inexpensive inspection mirror.

The handle length may be something to consider as well as the flexible light shown on the HF page.

I would try to keep your investment reasonably low. This two items won't brake the bank however are very handy for looking into the hard to see areas like under the sink and cabinets, etc.

JohnB just posted an endoscope site on Amazon, which is neat. You would most likely need to temporarily tape or tie it to a long flexible bottle brush (saw one just a couple days ago at Stop-N-Shop) or some semi rigid but adjustable flex shaft if you want to be able to view in a 360 degree circle.

Again JohnB added a very informative link (TankTexRX)
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:11 PM   #36
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It sounds like we have a pretty good sense of the problem. I am semi permanently hooked up so I have to find some help to loosen the pipe from the outside and take a look the tank.

Thanks for your suggestions and ideas. I'll keep you posted as I progress.
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:42 PM   #37
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OK, I took a look inside the plumbing through the top of the toilet. there is an obvious blockage of solids in the pipe going down itself, from what I can tell near the black tank, so towards the bottom. I used a video scope with a light. Hooked up to my computer. I'm glad I found something because I was getting nervous that maybe my toilet/tank was having a permanent flaw that I wouldn't be able to fix.

I'm still a little confused why Happy Camper wasn't able to dissolve this after an overnight soak.

What type of tool can be used to clear this? Using a snake won't work. It's too thin. Needs to be at least 4-5 feet maybe and with a diameter that can clear a pipe with a 5 inch or so diameter. any suggestions? Any one else make/craft something that can be used for this? Thanks! So glad to make some progress and get this solved.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:23 PM   #39
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Thanks John. This tool looks like it might be helpful. I'm a little concerned that the vid says it will continue to clog without professional cleaning. So this is just a temp fix. I guess I have to try it and see how it goes.

I haven't used other chemicals besides happy camper so perhaps there's not solidified materials that the hose won't get. Vid mentions that harsh chemicals with paper harden and cause clogs, then will need professional cleaning. Also I only use the disintegrating TP and maybe that helps.
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:22 PM   #40
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Noralee,

This might help. You can buy this one or go to Lowes/Home Depot and buy the parts and make one.

The video came from here. Scroll down Unclogging your RV Holding Tank or Toilet | TankTechsRX

John
Does anyone have a hint about making this? I have the parts and to the best of my knowledge they are correct. But I cannot get the fitting into the pipe. Video says to heat the pipe in boiling water for a few minutes and fitting should go in but I'm not able to fit it. Any suggestions?

I got a 3/8in pex. That is correct, yeah?
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