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Old 06-27-2020, 06:48 PM   #1
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SUN #11865
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2370-Spongy floor

I bought a 2370 in March. The floor was fine with no soft spots when I checked it out. A couple days ago I noticed a fairly uniform spongy spot in the bathroom, almost like a service port or a mistaken hole cut. Today, I noticed a spongy spot in the kitchen. It is not uniform and seems like rot.

The roof has a small puddling spot by the back corner in the kitchen. There is a sloppy recaulk in the same corner.

The refrigerator vent cover blew off shortly after I bought it. I covered it with plastic it did not appear to be leaking into the camper much. I bought a new cover to install.

Last week, we plugged the camper in and started using the refrigerator. All the electric works well.

I am concerned that the refrigerator drain is leaking into the floor but I think it is more likely that there is old dry rot that walking on the floor has destabilized.

It seems unlikely that the floor would get soft spots in 4 months, regardless of the leak. Water has not been hooked up. Camper does not smell of mold. There are no water spots inside the camper at all.

My questions are:
1. What is the floor framing in the kitchen and bath of the 2370?
2. Is there framing under the sink, counter and stove?
3.Is it safe to use?
4. Other than the roof, what are the possible sources of the leak?
5. Is it possible to repair the floor without removing walls or other stuff?

Thoughts?
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Old 06-28-2020, 10:03 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakleggs View Post

I am concerned that the refrigerator drain is leaking into the floor but I think it is more likely that there is old dry rot that walking on the floor has destabilized.

It seems unlikely that the floor would get soft spots in 4 months, regardless of the leak. Water has not been hooked up. Camper does not smell of mold. There are no water spots inside the camper at all.

My questions are:
1. What is the floor framing in the kitchen and bath of the 2370?
2. Is there framing under the sink, counter and stove?
3.Is it safe to use?
4. Other than the roof, what are the possible sources of the leak?
5. Is it possible to repair the floor without removing walls or other stuff?
Hi,

I can try and help. You gave us a good start on your problems, but we need more to help better. You may have more than one problem going on.

I agree with you, a known solid floor does not go soggy in 4 months. A prior compromised floor being used may then start to have glue separation in the OSB board of the floor. Or dry rotted wood that gives way when walked on.

There are some ways to help inspect your camper for what damage is in it now and where the water may be come from. First however, we need to know the model year of your T2370? The methods of construction changed over the years.

To your questions first.

1. Pending the year of the camper, the floor frame could be 2 x 2 (1 1/2 x 1/2") floor joists, 2 x 3 (1 1/2 x 2 1/2") floor joists lay down flat on the 3" side or 2 x 3's standing up vertical on the 2" side. Some model years have the floor joists running lengthwise of the camper, newer models have the floor joists running left to right over the top of the frame.

2. Is the framing under the sink, counter stove? All Sunlines that I have seen apart, (back into the late 70's) the main floor system was the same over the entire camper box. Meaning, whatever floor joist setup you have, is the same for the entire camper. They then put the cabinets, fridge, etc on top of the floor.

3. At this point, we do not know enough about what you have to know if it is safe to use.

4. While the roof is one source of water entry, there are many other places that can leak in water into a camper. Again need to know the model year to get closer on this. Regardless of model year, any penetration into the siding or roof can be a possibility of a leak. Odds are high, you may have more then just one leak. Seeping leaks, small cracks in the sealants can weep in water over a long period of time. Years worth that once it gets in, cannot get out very well and keeps going down by gravity to lower spots and sits and festers into rot. It is common that sometimes you cannot see a water infection "inside" the living space or ever smell moldy/mildew. There is some good news in all this, if you cannot see it or smell it, then the rot is not as advanced as it can be. Once you see it or smell it inside, the rot is well established and most times, still wet.

5. It is possible pending what the water issue is, to repair the floor without removing the walls, but that all "depends" if the walls are solid to start with. If the floor rotted out from a leaking toilet line or water heater, then the walls may still be good, but the floor is bad. That floor system may be able to be fixed without taking the walls apart. If the wet came from a wall or roof leak, then odds are high the walls are rotted as well as the floor and in this case you have to fix both.

We are here to help. This is all fixable if you have some basic woodworking skills and tools to do the work yourself. Many on the forum have done small repairs to total restorations and are willing to share what and how they did it. Just, this larger works does take a good deal of time, but it can be done and sometimes in stages.

The first thing to do at this point, I recommend you work to find out what is good and dry and what is some level of wet. Then you have some idea of what the problem or problems are. And only then, you create a plan on how to fix it, if you are going to fix it, and how you go about taking it apart. We have had many start taking the camper apart before they knew how bad it was and they took it apart the non ideal way at first and later had to rebuild more due to the way they took it apart.

See this post on a moisture meter. These now cost about $45 and a good tool to have. You can scan the floor, the walls, the ceiling, pending the roof material, the roof itself and the bottom plastic cover on the camper if yours has the plastic. You will know before you take much of anything apart how good or bad it may be. Anyone owning a camper or buying a used on, should have one of these. Sooner or later, you will need it. If you get one, we can help more on how to use it on camper inspections.
https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f...per-17613.html

There are also some other small investigative ways we can tell you how to inspect for leaks, but I need the year of the camper to know if they will work for yours.

Hope this helps

John

PS, Pictures, if you can post pictures of the roof caulk suspect you found an the roof caulking in general, that is good place to start also. We can tell a lot but what the pics look like what could be going on under the roof.
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Old 06-29-2020, 05:35 PM   #3
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SUN #11865
jakleggs is an unknown quantity at this point
Got the moisture meter in the mail today. The back side of the camper is definitely getting wet. The floor reads between 82 and 100% from the fridge to the back of the camper. Back wall reads 100%. in the affected corner by the door. and 100% under the stove.

All other walls and floor basically read zero on the inside.

It is a 1993 Sunline Superlight 2370.

I am thinking that the rear wall must come off to assess damage. The kitchen and bath floor also need to be replaced.

I also read the moisture on outside walls. Many areas on the exterior walls of the camper read 100% but many read very low. The lower on the camper the higher the reading. Is the moisture meter accurate on the outside?
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakleggs View Post

I also read the moisture on outside walls. Many areas on the exterior walls of the camper read 100% but many read very low. The lower on the camper the higher the reading. Is the moisture meter accurate on the outside?
Hi,

Good for you to get the meter. I'm assuming you got the same one I linked or at least a General Instruments one? And if so, is it on "wall mode"? Hoping yes, to what you have.

If your camper has the corrugated aluminum siding, you cannot use the meter on the outside as the metal will give it very high false readings. Why it works on the inside is, the meter can only scan about 5/8" to max 3/4" into the surface. The wall is thicker than that so it never sees the metal siding outside when scanning from the inside.

If you have the fiberglass siding, then you can scan from the outside in as there is no metal in the way.

Also, metal in the wall, a wire, a screw can give a high reading. But it is very local, like a blip of a high reading. Water damage is never a quarter sized blip, water is a big areas, inches to feet worth. So a dry wall with a 1" square blip in the middle could be metal in the wall.

If the bottom of your 93 camper has the black waterproof plastic membrane, (I think the 93's do) then you can scan up from the bottom to see how far wet insulation is under the floor system. Do scan that as it helps tall how far the water went under the floor.

If the back wall is all wet, starting a the top, then that points to a roof leak and or corner molding leaks, can be both at the same time. A high up leak infects everything below all the way to the the floor if it is left go long enough.

How is the ceiling in the back of the camper? Scan up on the inside and see how far away from the back wall the wet is and what the numbers are?

Here are a few places to look before you start into the taking anything apart in addition the ones above. And let's talk first on how to take it apart after you get all the info in.

1. The roof. For a 93, T2?70, the roof would be a rubber roof and not metal, correct? The meter can scan down from the top of the rubber roof and see moisture under it. This works well to tell how bad or not the roof water infection is. Also, feel the roof, the roof is not hard, but has flex to it but a firm flex. If it feels like a rubber tire tube bounce, (a big rubber band that can be pressed down a inch or more) then that is from the backing material separating from the rubber due to water damage under the rubber.

Start at the back wall and work your way to the front reaching, scanning and feeling the rubber along the full 8' width of the back all, then along the left and right side wall. Take special note at the front of the camper at the front seam to the siding and at the corners. Those are high leak areas. You may have wetness in other areas of the roof beyond the rear wall.

Note: if the entire roof scans at 90-100%, then you may have an algae build up and the meter is reading the alage. This happens "sometimes" and you cannot use the meter on the roof. But you can scan the ceiling inside and you can still feel for the rubber band effect of the backing material coming loose from water damage. If you find low meter readings (less than 15%) areas on the rubber, then start finding higher levels 25% going up to and over 50 % and above, then you found the edge of dry to wet.

DO NOT walk on the roof. Reach from the side. Rafters may be rotted out and even on a good roof, you have to take precautions before walking on the roof. Reach from the side on this test.

2. The rear wall, a trait of a wet back wall is the screws along the bottom of the rear wall just above the bumper. Those screws hold the bottom piece of siding on. Look at the heads of the screws, it they are rusted, they are rusting from the inside out from water in the wall. You can take all of them out now and look at the threads even if the heads are not rusted. Screw them back in when done to plug the hole. A dry wall has shiny new looking screw threads. Rusted threads all the way to goo on the threads points to a wet wall. These are the screws I am talking about, See how many are rusted and or dry.



The front wall at the bottom also has these screws, look at them for rusted heads too. And it is OK to unscrew them, look and put them back in too.

3. Inside the camper, scan the left and right side walls starting at the back wall and going towards the front. You know the back wall is wet, but we do not know yet if the water went around to the side walls. Scan floor to ceiling on the side walls and see how far down the wall to the front is dry or wet. This make a big difference in the repair to know how far the wet goes down the side walls.

You are doing really good at inspecting. Keep the info coming and we can help you understand how big or smaller the repair may be.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakleggs View Post
It is a 1993 Sunline Superlight 2370.
Quick question, Is it a 1993 T2370 or a T2470?

I cannot seem to find a T2370 but can a T2470 which has bunks on the rear wall left side heading to the front and bathroom shower, fridge and sink on the rear right side starting at the back wall going to the front.

Was there a typo?

Thanks

John
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:58 PM   #6
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If you do have a shower stall on the right rear side, you can scan through the plastic shower surround and see the wall behind it. Do the back wall and the right side wall. The meter scans through plastic OK
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