Your Favorite Tow Vehicle

[henryj]

Good thread, Janet. And a great opportunity to swap experiences. I have never owned a diesel, but have some direct comparisons as we have taken a couple of trips with my brother, most recently to OR. He tows a Titanium with an 04 Dmax. The dry weight of the Titanium is 2000 lb. more than our traveling weight. With as much as 100 gal. of fuel, including an aux tank, he's hauling about 4000 lb. more than we are. Our 7200 mi. trip average, including some solo, was 10.7 mpg with a low of 7.7 into a 30 mph headwind. We had head and cross winds going west and east so there are no tailwinds to inflate the mileage figures. Dave was getting 15-17 mpg with a low of 13 into the same headwinds. I can't compare costs $ for $ because he only filled the aux tank when diesel was cheap, but he used 480 gal. and I used 670. To simplify the comparison, at my local prices today, I spent $40 more on fuel than Dave. At the higher prices in Sep. it would still have been under $100.

As some have already said, you can't spend money to save money. At today's prices the only payback in a diesel is outstanding performance. If you trade it when it still has good value some of the price premium will come back to you. In Canada the premium is $11,000 and that was just too rich for me. The only good reason to buy a diesel is to haul heavy loads over long distances. The only way I could keep up with my brother was to drive in the lead. On two lanes, I picked my passing spots carefully whereas he would usually pass in the same place after I pulled over. He could climb any mountain road we were on at the posted speed limit, usually in 5th gear. On the numerous mountain passes on I80 he could run with the fast trucks in the center lane where we would get trapped in the slow lane.

The 7000 lb. Sunlines are definitely heavy enough to see the benefit of a diesel, but unlike the Titanium, they are also still light enough for gas. We were never the slowest vehicle on the road and never an obstacle. On I80 we relaxed and just followed the slow trucks up the pass knowing that the summit was only a few minutes away.

It's relatively easy to buy a new truck when you already have the trailer because you know exactly what weights you're working with. That's a little more difficult with used models because, as Rick has already pointed out, option packages can make a huge difference and they aren't always easy to spot on the used lot. GM doesn't make the 1500HD anymore, but it is a nicely spec'd truck right out the door. All you really need to add is the tow package. I've even gotten to like the crew cab after having an extended cab. It's definitely longer--our rig occupies 46 ft. of road--and much less nimble than the old 1500, but it's not a daily driver either and the long wheelbase does smooth out the bumps. It's also great for solo touring when traveling with another couple. If you want to stick with a 1500 pay close attention to the GVWR and the RGAWR--they're easy to exceed with a 1500--and budget for a 2500 if necessary.

Henry

[Bobo]

If I had the funds, I would be ordering a new Ford F-150 with the max towing package. A 5.4 motor, 6 speed automatic, 3:73 limited slip RA, all the coolers, towing mirrors, hitch frame, wiring and a beefed up suspension and rear bumper. Supposed to be able to pull 11,000 pounds plus, and still get @ 18 mpg highway when not towing. Options include a reverse camera and built in electric brake contoller.

Guess I have to keep on scratching those lottery tickets.

Bobo

PS; I have been a loyal GM man my whole life, but this Ford is impressive.

[kanyonkitty]

Think I should say that one of the main reasons I "HAVE" the diesel, is because I run my vehicles for years. Prior to the F-350, I had a Ford Explorer, I bought it used, it was a '91 and drove it 'til it had 170,000 miles on it. I hate vehicle buying I surely didn't need the F-350, but I had been truck shopping for a while, was getting kinda worn out, and came across the F-350, got a pretty good deal at the time. (Could probably almost steal one now ) But, I like it, need the crew cab for KD, need the bed to haul "stuff" now that I'm alone, and hopefully it will last me at least as long as that used Explorer did

[nickster60]

I love diesels and have had a few in the past. They are hard to beat for towing power and resale value. There use to be an economic advantage when diesel fuel was the same price as regular gas. With the $7000.00 for the diesel option and the addition cost in fuel that advantage is gone. The older diesels where esy to work and parts where pretty cheap. It isnt that way any more. The parts for the newer diesel are also very expensive.

Ford 6.9l injector 30.00
Ford Powerstroke Injector 300.00

[JohnB]

Janet and Fred

Your post has created some of the most genuine and right on replies I have ever seen on this topic. Another big plus and great club we have here.

So many good things have already been said I’ll try not to repeat them but add other things not yet mentioned. I’ll try and explain some of what they are talking about and how it relates to towing to help you figure out which way to go. I have some time tonight and will type about the pulling factor which is the one with the most complexity to it. Tomorrow I’ll do more on suspensions.

Selecting a TV for a TT has unique things to consider. I’ll start with a few questions and assumptions.

In your blessed situation you get to live for months in your home away from home in the SP. By now I “think” you know if that TT fits all your needs today and into the future. By your comments earlier in the year of Fred not wanting to leave the camper bed to come in the house… must mean you/he like it. Reason I’m asking this is if you are staying with the 7,000# GVWR weight and height camper series then you can match the TV to that size camper. If you think in the next year or so a larger camper may be in your future, well that changes the TV requirements.

There are 3 areas that need to line up to get a good match of TV to TT. This sort of boils down into the ability to (1.) pull the TT , (2.) the ability to hold up the camper and “stuff” you have in the truck and (3) how many miles of towing a year are you doing and where are you going?

Items 1 and 3 sort of go together. You talked about going to more real mountains. I’m assuming this means west and higher elevations. If it is just one mountain well, you can get by with some things, but if it is many mountains and they are at altitude, then this means you need more reserve power to make up for that heaver climbing.

The rules are for every 1,000 feet of elevation an engine can loose 3% power lose because of the thinner air that the engine breaths. 3% is not that much of an issue here on the east coast as there is not too many over 2500 to 3,000 foot mountains to drive over. So towing in the flat lands of east loosing 9% engine power at 3000 feet is not so bad. But going out west and doing a large quantity of towing at say 8,300 feet above sea level is 25% power loss. Or in simpler terms, if your gas engine is a V8 and does real well here in the east, well loosing 25% power at 8,300 feet means that V8 lost 25% or is now about the power of a V6. That you notice.

The physical diesel engine has the same problem as the gas engine in dealing with thin air, but most diesel trucks now a days have a turbo charger or super charger on them to jam more air in the engine to help combat the problem. The gas engine if it is big enough even loosing 25% power can still pull a good sized load of a 7,000# series TT. But it has to be sized big enough. The other problem is heat in the transmission. With the smaller engine the truck will down shift to keep the load rolling and when it drops in 2nd gear or 1st gear tons of heat come out of the slipping torque converter that the TV has to cool off. It’s not all about the engine, towing long large hills that do not want to give up, it is about the ability to cool off the heat from the transmission. Again here a larger tow capacity TV that has more reserve capacity can get rid of the heat better.

OK so what does this all mean to your 7,000# series TT I want to pull around the western US? Well the good news is your Sunline is a low rider, no slide and lower wind drag which equals easier pulling when you get into the limits of a TV size. Wind drag is real and what throws off a lot of the “What can this truck tow” ratings. A higher TT with a slide will take more power to pull then your T2553 even if it is the exact same weight. Reserve capacity helps compensates for the wind drag .

So how do you know what reserve you need? I have yet to find any published rating for this reserve capacity other then this. Ford does a good job in there towing guides about using a rating that above 60 sq feet of frontal area of a trailer you are pulling that a loss in towing performance of the TV will occur. But they never say how much… Our 8 ft wide 9 feet tall TT’s (AKA = Brick) that we pull down the road are encroaching on this 60 sq feet. So they admit performance will suffer, but they never say how much.

Now to numbers that are real. GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) this is the real number that a TV engine, transmission and rear axle are rated to pull. You find it generally in your TV owners manual and need engine size, 4 wheel drive or not and the rear axle ratio. There is no fudging of this number. Here is where the reserve comes in. If your TV weighs 7,500# loaded and your TT weighs 6,500# loaded that is 14,000# of pulling to the TV. The higher the spread between the truck GCWR limit and the TV and TT combined weight, the more reserve you have.

Let’s use some closer real examples and here is where our fellow forum members that might know their weights can help.

My T2499, same frame size and height as yours, loaded weighed 6,300# with no fresh water. My 2003 Chevy 2500 Suburban and T2499 loaded to go camping weighed in at 13,660#. That TV was rated at 16,000# GCWR. So it had 16,000 – 13,660 = 2,340# of extra towing capacity or 14.6% extra so let’s say 15% extra. On the low profile T2499 and the east coast that 15% worked well for me. Notice I said 2 things, low profile and east coast.

It you want to see how you stack up to your TV now, do you know the weights of the TV and TT loaded? If you are seeing performance pulling issues your reserve capacity must be smaller or you are wanting to drive a lot faster then 60 MPH.

Let’s look at 2 or 3 others here. Let’s look at HenryJ’s His T2499 and TV have that same 16,000# GCWR rating I believe like my Suburban did. Low profile TT and most likely weighs about 6,300 pound range. But he has a PU truck not an SUV like I had. The SUV just plain weighs more so I lost pulling capacity towing the heavy glass and roof of the back of the Suburban around. Maybe Henry can tell us his reserve capacity numbers. Unless he had a lot of weight in the truck, he should have had more reserve capacity then I did. A good thing to know in a PU verses an SUV for Towing.

Now let’s look at the other end of the power curve. Kitty’s T2499 same lower profile TT like yours. I’m sure it is in the same 6,300# no water area but her F350 is rated to pull 23,500# GCWR if she has the turbo charger diesel option. Her truck weighed in at 8,400#. On her last weigh in with fresh water the T2499 was 6,540# OR 14,940# Gross combined weight. So 23,500 GCWR – 14,940# = 8,560# or ~ 36% extra reserve capacity.

Now let’s look at a higher end gas engine on the same T2499, low profile TT. This summer I took my new truck to pull the T2499 back to NY for the July holidays. That F350 is rated at 21,000# GCWR. So my T2499 at 6,300#, the V10, F350 at 8,200# = 14,500# Gross combined weight. So 21,000 GCWR- 14,500# GCW = 6,500# or ~ 31% extra reserve capacity.

I also have taken that same 600 mile route with the 2500 Suburban and the T2499 and it was not straining either at 15% reserve capacity verse the F350 at 31% extra here in the east coast. But if I it took it out west and lost 15 to 20% due to elevation, well the strain would show a lot quicker on the Suburban and to the point I would have heat issues long term if I went up the 8 to 9000 feet range. I have a camper friend pulling his 30 ft Jayco Eagle with a 6.0 liter 2500HD that went over the 8500 foot pass and his transmission hit 240F. He only did one big mountain and the rest of the trip was fine.

The pulling contest really comes down to how much reserve towing capacity you have left and where you want to go as to if the TV will be straining or pulling with ease. You can get the right reserve capacity with a gas or diesel engine. I’ll recommend that 15% is the bottom of the scale for a long term situation for out west and do not do a lot of 8,000 foot passes. Here on the east coast, again same low profile TT, 15% works OK long term.

As far as pulling, it is the engine, transmission and rear axle ratings verses the loaded weight ratings that needs to be in line. If you are going to keep the T2553, that is a fixed number, next is to figure out the TV and stuff inside it weighs for your newer TV.

Are you wanting a PU or a SUV or Van?

I’ll type some more on the suspension aspects next year (tomorrow) as this is where the next area has to line up for long term reliability and a good fit for TT towing.

Hope this helps

John

[nasa42a]

Folks......

In commenting on the original subject I almost feel guilty for interrupting a great big-rig-towing seminar. However, Sharon and I are more akin to Norm & Ginny (Honda03842) in ultimate TT&TV size preference.

Our Tacoma Prerunner V6 is ideal for RVs up to about 5000 lbs (it's rated to tow 6500, but I like a 20% safety margin). Our present SOB (some other brand) TT's low wind resistance is frosting on the cake, giving us an improved MPG. For the long-milage trips we (can) favor at this point in our lives, the travel economy is great

We "resized" into the current TT after 2 years and 25,000 miles....deciding we'd downsized too far when going to the Que. But thinking back to our 15.5, I'd say that overall, it was actually a more comfortable TT than was our Que (but that Que bathroom WAS great)!

Regardless of the size of your chosen TT, I'd join others in recommending that you seek to always have a good "safety margin" in towing and towing equipment. One service manager once advised me that, "the further you stay from your recommended limits, the more likely it is that you'll avoid breakdowns and other problems". I consider that to have been great advice.

Frank

[nickster60]

One service manager once advised me that, "the further you stay from your recommended limits, the more likely it is that you'll avoid breakdowns and other problems". I consider that to have been great advice.

I agree with that statement 100 %. If your vehicle isnt working very hard you arent going to have as many problems or as much wear.

My Dodge is rated for 13500 lbs and I tow in overdrive all of the time. At 60 mph it is at 1600-1700 rpms it never really breaks a sweat.

[HappyCampers]

Well my vote would definately have to be for the Dodge with a Cummins. I didn't buy either one of my Dodge diesels for the Dodge name plate. I bought them for the beast under the hood. Cummins is an American company that has been building heavy duty diesels forever. Give me a big ol 6 cylinder diesel any day of the week.
Cummins has also quited their diesels over the last few years. My 2001 5.9 L Cummins was much louder than my current 2005 5.9 L Cummins, and the newer one makes 100 more HP and over 100 more ft/lbs of torque.
My F-304SR is tipping the scales at about 12,200 lbs, and I can tow most low grades in overdrive without breaking a sweat. For larger grades I just kick her outta OD and let the engine do her stuff. Easily tackling large grades at 55-60 mph.

[Honda03842]

Frank and Sharon,

What kind of mileage do you get towing your Hi/Lo?

Norm and Ginny Milliard

[nasa42a]

Norm, Ginny.......

Our actual experience is only the mileage from Paynesville, Minnesota to here in central PA at our time of HiLo purchase in September. (Due to home projects, we winterized shortly after bringing it home).

We compute MPG for each tankload (& cumulative since purchase of the Tacoma) , using each sale slip (we always use the credit card).

The MPG range per tankload was from 14.24 to 15.45... Part of this obviously the result of the speed I was travelling and the stop & start traffic in-town traffic at times. I wasn't driving to maximize my fuel use. But it still was up about 20+ % over the previous average mileage towing the Que!

After some longer trips this coming year I'll be interested to see what our overall average turns out to be!

Frank

[JohnB]

Janet and Fred

I looked up your tongue weight from last summers M & G tongue weighing fest… At the time with what you had loaded in it, it was 790#. And after looking up the dry tongue weight of a 2006 T2553, which is listed as 715# , I guess I’ll ask how loaded the front of the camper was, or better yet how loaded was the back of the camper under the bed? Was the propane low in the tanks that you remember?

That front kitchen layout I would of thought to be heavier. Long term camping when traveling may mean more supplies inside then Buttonwood was and to expect that a 900# or even a 1,000# tongue is not impossible.

If you are looking at TV change it would be best to start with a 900 to 1,000# tongue in mind. And then there is what do you haul in the truck bed? And especially is any of it behind the rear axle of the truck?

If all you have is the 900 to 1,000# TT tongue then this will line up to the limits of a ½ ton truck pending what cab and othere options are in the truck. Now extra bed weight adds to the issue. A truck cap which can be the ultimate storage space in a PU truck can add 200# to the truck. Some more, some less pending what you get. Then you can really put stuff in side…. I have the tono cover and I fill the bed.

You mentioned the water fun toys. I suspect they are about 60# each with paddles. So there is 120# and then the 2 bikes. Mine weigh 90# for 2. Yours may be a little more or less. Then another 80# for the WD hitch. Not knowing what else you have in the truck what I have listed so far comes real close to border lining a ½ ton PU truck. Now payload on a ½ ton PU does vary between brands, options, suspension options and year. The new ones are rated to hold more payload.

Now comes the choices. If you only travel with the camper a limited amount of time, the ½ ton PU with some weight watching will do good for you. If you do go ½ ton, If there is a LT tire option, get it. And any suspension upgrades, get them. These things really help.

If you are looking at heading west, and many miles, 8,000 10,000 or more miles a year towing, high elevation passes, then a ¾ ton would be a better option.

Some of the pro’s of the ¾ ton.

Heavier suspension, more rear axle rating, more GVWR, more payload available.
Heaver transmissions that hold up longer under heavy towing long distances.
Heavy brakes due to that the truck is made to handle more weight.
Heavier rear axle components.
Generally larger cooling systems as these vehicles are known to be towing weight. Not allwasy though.
LT tires on many are a standard verses an option.
The ability to just carry more stuff and not be sitting on the limit of the truck suspension.
In the older year models, like pre 2006 ish time frame, generally larger engines and more pulling capacity.

You notice my last comment. The new Chevy’s and Fords I have looked at in the ½ ton range have added more power under the hood, yet still on the same ½ ton chassis. The engine ability to pull a camper is quickly closing between the ½ ton to ¾ ton truck market. However the payload problem is still there. You might be able to pull it, but you might not be able to hold it up.

The cons of the ¾ ton is it does ride around non towing stiffer and there is a slight price increase for the heaver components.

The only real way to pre figure this out is to physically weight the stuff you want to carry. Take the present truck and camper you now have, load up all the toys on it and all the stuff in the camper. Head to a near by truck scale. Spend about $8 to $9 and weigh all axles with the TT and TV hooked up and WD bars on, while on the scale unhook the WD bars and get a 2nd weight in the same place and then go unhook the TT and weigh just the truck. With this information and some math we can help you figure this out as you are now armed with real information on how to size up the new TV suspension.

I will also add this. This comes out in the ability of a TV to hold a TT stable. This is more then the weights but it does show up in the weights. It is how close to the limits is when it shows up.

Lets say we have a 6,500# TT with a 1,000# tongue

A ½ ton truck at it’s limits hooked to a TT will do OK. It is not a bad thing but OK

Take that same TT and put it on a 3/4 ton not at it’s limits and inside the truck you will immediately feel an increase in left to right stability. Since this TV has more capacity it can support that same size TT more stable.

I’m not saying the 3/4 tons solves all problems as it is the spread between fully loaded and partial loaded that I’m referring to. In contrast, a 8,500# TT with a 1,200# tongue on a 3/4 ton truck will not be as stable as that same TT on a 1 ton truck.

A few other things, do you buy a new truck or a used one? New is nice if it is in your budget. However getting a good used 3/4 ton truck with 50,000 miles on it, I have no fears it will not provide good service for the next 100,000 miles. These newer, year late 90’s and up 3/4 ton trucks are just built better and stronger then they use to be. 100,000 miles is not to be feared. However they still need good service and tires etc.

I bought my 2003, K2500 Suburban with 30,000 miles on it, my 2005 F350 with 45,000 miles on it and saved a lot of money in the process and are outstanding trucks when used within there limits. And wiht the internet, the shoping is endless. Just open up the search field to about 500 miles and read and read and read. I used Autotrader to find my last F350.

I’m not saying the new 1/2 tons are not good as they are but for out west traveling and not worrying about the weight, the 3/4 ton will serve you longer.

My 2 cents on the gas verse diesel. Hands down the diesel with it’s high compression, high torque engine is a puller. This is undisputed. But that does not mean a high output gas engine with the right transmission and rear axle gearing cannot go a great job. It is all about the spread from GCWR to the actual loaded pulling Gross combined weight. That amount of reserve capacity is what is needed. Others have given good reasons for having a diesel or not. I almost had a diesel on this last truck however GM did not make a 1 ton short bed and I did not want to get the used 6.0 Ford diesel or the new 6.4. I have not ventured in trucks toward Dodge but having nothing against them other then the older Cummins loudness….man where they loud.

Good luck in your choices and come back with any questions. Your post here has brought out a lot of good in folks to express different view points in a very positive way.

Hope this helps

John

[henryj]

John, my 1500HD has the standard 3.73 which gives a 14,000 lb. GCWR. The optional 4.10 gives 16,000. I never thought of quantifying the axle ratio like this, but the impact of the 4.10 is huge. My reserve now is exactly 15%, but it goes to 25% with the 4.10. It's enough to make me think of upgrading. I wanted the 4.10, but my dealer couldn't find a single one in his trading area; they were all 3.73--and the gas 2500HDs were all municipal white models. I just looked up the 8.1 L out of curiosity and I would have 46% reserve with a 4.10; 41% with a 3.73.

Some additional thoughts on altitude too... From Roseburg, OR on I5 to Crater Lake NP is an elevation change of 6000 ft. in maybe 100 hwy miles and it's not a gradual change. What makes the western grades different is the length and when you top one there's another one before the transmission temp has a chance to drop. Also on secondary hwys like this one, there are lots of hairpin turns that keep you in a low gear and reduce airflow through the cooler. To compare... One eastern grade I remember is dropping down from the Blue Ridge Pkwy to Waynesboro, VA. It's just as steep as anything in the west, but it doesn't go on forever. And I was glad we were towing a pop up at the time.

There is another obvious diesel advantage here in having the power to accelerate out of hairpin turns to climb these kind of grades much faster than any gas truck.

I'm also wondering if there is a diesel advantage in transmission temp too. Does the lower diesel rpm spin the input shaft slower than in a gas transmission?? My brother's 5sp Allison never increased its temp on any grades. I know this is a quality transmission, but I don't think it has a much bigger fluid capacity that would account for absolutely no increase while my gauge was reaching a worrying stage.

Henry

[Mooney]

I love my new truck...

'04 2500HD extended cab, 4wd, 6.0, 4-speed, 4.10 gears, factory rear locker...

Fuel mileage varies (as stated in other threads), but I find the ride quality of the GMs better than the HD competition. It's nice and quiet inside, rides sweet, and reliable.

Whatever the TV, go with the optional packages...

mine (got used, the only things I would have ordered if I were to go new would be a sunroof, a sliding rear window (even with a cap, I love a slider), and clearance lights (like the look) has the tow package, plow prep package, and camper package... 7 way wired from factory, plug-and-play brake control, engine oil cooler, tranny oil cooler, HD radiator, 160 amp alternator, full skid plate package, heavy(ier) duty front suspension (yes, there are different suspension packages for non-plow-package trucks), and a couple other things I forget right now...

Pulls our lifted (more air resistance) 2380 like it's not there (most of the time), and is a pleasure to drive long distances in. The cap keeps our stuff clean and dry, hides the contraband firewood (hand selected and clean, no worries..), gives me a place to hang our bike rack, and a place to mount the wing...which adds about 1-1.5 mpg late this past season.

[matti]

After trading in my 2004 Silverado 5.3 I did a cost in the long run comparison between a Chevy 2500HD diesel vs a 6.0 gasser...the gasser won

[awellis3]

Originally Posted by JohnB

My 2 cents on the gas verse diesel. Hands down the diesel with it’s high compression, high torque engine is a puller. This is undisputed. But that does not mean a high output gas engine with the right transmission and rear axle gearing cannot go a great job.

Yessireebob! The 5.7 L Tundra with the tow package (which includes the biggest honkin' ring gear in the industry) and 6-speed tranny will haul my 3 ton Sunny on down the road. On a trip through the mountains of West Virginia, we averaged over 11 mpg after climbing to 3200 feet. (I get 14.7 mpg around town.)
But let me add, my wife wanted this truck after she took a look at the 4-wheel disc brakes. You gotta stop 'em as well as haul 'em.

My 2 cents,
Teach

[shepherds2]

The Ideal tow vehicle is one that costs you virtually nothing over the 14 years and 182,000 miles you have owned it. My first Dodge D350 1 ton diesel was a 1992. It cost me $3,250 in repairs/maintanance which included a set of shocks, two sets of tires, two valve adjusts (no tune ups on a diesel) and one rear wheel seal. That's cheap. So I bought another new Dodge D350 dually in 2006 and I have 60,000 mile on it to date with not one repair. I just put a new set of tires on it @ 50,000 miles. It may noisy on the outside, but is quieter than my Lexus on the inside. On the freeway you can not hear the engine running. Just some tire noise and not much at that. You need to drive one to believe it.
The "toe/haul" feature on the transmission (new in 2006) works really well for towing a trailer. It locks the tranny up so it will not slip into higher RPM's and downshift all the time when you come to a slight hill. This truck has awesome power and doesn't know what a hill is. I live in Washington State and here every road is a hill. I get 12-13 mpg towing my T-257SR and the truck alone weighs in at a heavy 8,400 pounds.
These two trucks have been "money in the bank" for me allowing me to save for the next one. The ride is very good and it handles well. It is quiet inside and the only complaint I have is the Front seats suck in the comfort Department for me. The seats in the 1992 were ten times better in fit and fabric. I highly recommend trying A Dodge out.
Captain Ron

[quaddriver]

I was not around 2 years ago and just saw this thread. So its an opportunity to brag about my truck!

Of all the trucks I own/have owned, my 1990 F150 XLT was/is my fav tow vehicle. I ordered it from ford and took delivery june 19th, 1990 and forked over $16405. 5.0, aod, 3.55LS, fully loaded from the factory, CL IV hitch, bedliner, overloads, mass air, borla, headers etc etc from me.

There is an old chinese saying: "wait by the river long enough and you will see the body of your enemy float by". I have an older saying, own a ford long enuf and you will tow everyones vehicle into your shop on your flatbed.

Sadly, old blue was claimed by cancer of the frame about 2 years ago, but I mitigated this by finding the same year, color, options from down south and built 'new blue'

Old blue's 5.0 had almost 1/4 million miles when I sold the engine to a kid looking for a mustang base. no smoke, no leaks, 50psi oil. synthetic oil from birth...

the tranny was rebuilt and sits in my shed with 8K on it, in case new blue gives it up.

All the rest of the running gear sold on craigslist and sits on other trucks.

I got 19mpg driving, 14-15 in 4x4 (we had some wicked snow in the 90s remember!)

7-8mpg towing my prowler, as much as 14 towing my old bayliner (12 normally) and aboutg 10-11 towing chris. She never towed my sunny but new gets about 8-9

I have always wanted a PSD since 1993 when they got the turbo, and I actually prefer the 92-97 body style. but the economics aint there. I only do 4K year on average, gas being what it is, no unless I score the powerball numbers a new truck aint in my future. I have been eyeing truck campers lately and feel that a 250HD/350 with a gas big block is prolly what I want to score. southern used versions are very attractive indeed.

You note I do not speak of other brands and I certainly dont wanna start a holy war, but pound for pound, dollar for dollar, ford makes the best. from 1980 to present. (well ok, I concede my voice is not that strong for the 2000's, dont own any, aint seen many in the shop and they dont have enuf years on them to make longevity claims)

[matti]

My brother has a 1985 F250 with 268,000 miles & still burns no oil. As for me the Silverado was a matter of economics as i have owned every brand of truck made since I started driving in 1963...They all have their plus & minus

[Viking]

Mooney,
Is there a picture of your "wing" anywhere?
Where did you buy it?
Our cap has the roof rack rails, so it seems it should be easy to fit one and gain some MPG.
Is it easy to fold down when not towing? How about adjustability?
Roar

[Sunline Fan]

I do! I believe he said it was from JC Whitney.