Input on AdvancerLite L-25R

[RMBrooks]

Dear Forum members,

I just joined the group, and thank you for this great forum.

If this post is in the wrong place I apologize, please let me know how to do better.

I am going to look at a 2001 L-25R next week. I have downloaded the brochure, thanks for that too. I also read the few posts regarding this sub brand.

I would like to hear from you on materials of construction, structure, fit and finish, component quality, trouble areas, things to look out for in particular with this brand or sub systems, comments on layout, and any other two cents you would like to donate.

I was only recently pointed to the Sunline brand by an older salesperson who after spending an hour with me and my flashlight, eventually said you would have liked the Sunline brand as they made quality.
He eventually said go find a used Sunline and you will be ok. Nothing he had to offer was going to satisfy me. What a great endorsement.

Since I was really considering an aluminum framed trailer the AdvancerLite even fits that bill, if they turn out to be as good as the standard Sunline brand.

Since it sounds like relatively few of the Advancer line were sold your opinions are of great value, especially if you own the AdvacerLite.
I would be very appreciative if you could share your opinion about the L-25R in particular as well.

I am new to travel trailers although I do have 30+ years with boats. I currently have a 270 sea ray that I drag around on a triple axle trailer about 8500lbs, so pulling is not really a concern. I have a K2500 Suburban with a big block, class V Reese Titan. I recognize that I will have to install a brake controller and weight distributing hitch.
Also many of the systems on the RV's are for the most part are analogous to those found on boats, so again I have no real concerns.

So the context is I recently retired after 36 year as a mechanical engineer from a major chemical company based in Wilmington, Del. My wife Joann may join me in retirement this summer.

The idea is to buy the best quality smaller travel trailer and go out West and to winter somewhere warmer than Western New York. I don’t want to pull anything large through the mountains, and light is the secret to fuel economy. (Yes the Suburban will not be good at $4 / Gal.)

Thank you so much for this forum and your input. I did not list my cell phone as I did not know if that was appropriate, but I would be glad to talk to anyone who is generous enough to share.

Best Regards,
Roger and Joann Brooks
North Tonawanda, NY

[henryj]

Hi Roger and Joann,

Welcome to the Sunline Club; I hope your search is successful. We have a 2499 which is a virtually identical floor plan flipped front to back. It is one of a number of Sunline floorplans that are ideally suited to 2 people. Karen didn't like the walk through bath in the brochure, but when we saw the trailer in person it wasn't even an issue as everything else was exactly what we were looking for.

I don't recall that there are any other Advancers in the SOC, at least not among active members, so that is likely why you don't have a long list of responses.

I noticed in the brochure that the LS-25R is a 2001 while the L-25R is a 2000 so double check which model and year you are actually looking at. RVs typically changeover in June or even earlier so a 2001 model could easily have been built in 2000. The manufacturer's sticker on the front left side will give you that date.

If you've been crawling around RVs with a flashlight you already know what to look for so forgive me if I state the obvious. Don't be afraid of any maintenance issues, like new tires, battery or caulking--just factor them into your cost especially on a 10 yr old unit, but beware of repairs and your ability to tackle them.

The fibreglass siding uses the same ingredients as a boat, but is a very different end product. It typically goes by its trademark name, Filon. It does have a gelcoat exterior, but much less than a boat. It is also just a fibreglass skin that actually comes in a roll. It is glued onto the framework and then the various windows and doors are cut out. Al siding is at least semi rigid and hides framing irregularities. If anything the fibreglass accentuates them. In the right light I can see every stud by sighting down the side of our 2499. If your LS-25R has been outside expect the siding to have significant oxidation that can be difficult to remove. Check this thread for more info on fiberglass. Check the fiberglass around the outside of all openings looking for delamination. Wavy due to framing irregularities is ok, but bubbles you can push in are not.

Water is the enemy of any RV, even one framed with Al. Look for staining and discoloration anywhere on the ceiling, roof vents, window corners and the floor under the windows and the doorways. The floor is OSB which will go soft and spongy when it's gotten wet and the vinyl floor covering will get grayish blotches. Check around the toilet and shower and anywhere drains run through the floor. Pushing firmly with your thumb is good enough. The front window corners are also susceptible as they get blasted by 60 mph rain.

Ideally all systems should be checked out, but that can be difficult if your LS-25R is in NY as it's still too early to dewinterize. If the owner doesn't object, do dewinterize and take along a couple of jugs of antifreeze to help him winterize again after you're done. The first thing I'd do is plug into shore power and switch on the fridge. Take a thermometer along and If it's a nice sunny day you should be able to see cooling in a couple of hours. Keep in mind that a fridge that seems cool at 35 or 40 could still have problems at 80. It's similarly difficult to check out the AC. The electric water heater should have hot water in less than 30 min. As long as it fires up on gas it should be good to go. The furnace too should blow hot air almost right away just like a home unit. Propane disappears from the lines after a couple of weeks of not using it. Turn the stove top burners on and fire away until they light up. Do this first before trying any other propane appliance because the stove is the only place you can see what's going on. Oven's are a little tricky to light, but the owner should be able to demo that too. Put some water in the fresh tank and try the pump.

Use one of the little outlet testers, with lights that check polarity, to check all outlets. Turn on all the lights etc. Unplug from shore power and check all the lights and radio again on 12V. Back up to the trailer and plug in your TV to check the running lights etc.

The roof is not walk on, but bring a step ladder, or check that the owner will provide one, and check all caulking around the edge of the roof, particularly in the corners. It's not difficult to redo, but if it's not sound look for water inside--open all the cupboard doors etc.

Expect to replace the tires and battery and check the date on the propane tanks--they should be ok, but are only certified for 12 years. OPD has been around for so long I can't recall when it came in so double check that your tanks are OPD as well. My BIL unwittingly bought a trailer where the PO tossed on some old tanks and kept the new ones for himself. You'll also need to repack the bearings and adjust the brakes.

When it comes time to buy a hitch, don't get whatever the RV dealer is selling. Most of us use all in one weight distributing and anti sway hitches like the Reese DC or Equal-i-zer brand. They're a bit more money, but definitely worth it for the the long haul.

Lastly, don't expect a tt to tow like your boat. It may be lighter, but it's still a brick. It will roll off more easily, but air resistance should catch up quickly. Nevertheless, our road ready 2499 weighs 6000 lb. and we've towed right to west coast with our 300 hp 6.0L. It's definitely not like a diesel, but is more than adequate to get through the mountains.

Henry

[RMBrooks]

Henry what a great reply, thank you for the considerable time and thought in your post.

What do you mean by roll off? Sway?

I think your correct about the 2000 model year too. Also it appears I'm too late and the seller has decided to accept a current offer, so unless the deal falls through the L-25R is gone.

I did see a couple of things I did not like about the L-25R, it appears to have little storage access from the outside, and it looks more boxy and maybe more outdated, but overall still a very nice unit.

So I'm now looking for a 2000 or newer 2475 which is really the floorplan that seems to ring true with Joann and I. I posted a wanted ad in the classified.

Is there a clear winner in term of the most popular floorplan?

I will take your wisdom and put it in a spreadsheet of things to check off as I continue my search.

Thanks so much. Regards, Roger

[henryj]

Roll off... I guess I coined that one... I mean the inertia of getting a heavy load rolling. Your truck will groan more starting off with the 8500 lb. boat than with a 5000 lb. travel trailer. For example, In stop and go driving the weight of the rig has the biggest impact on mileage. Above 30 or 40 mph the weight doesn't matter as much as the air resistance. So, crawling up a mountain grade, I'd rather be pulling the tt, but zipping down the highway, I'd rather tow the boat.

Trailer sway is something tt owners are very much aware of as it can flip you into the ditch in the blink of an eye. Boats don't seem to have a problem as the wheels are so far back the rig is inherently stable. Depending on the manufacturer, a tt might have the wheels in the middle and be very susceptible to sway. The high slab sides also catch the wind more than a boat.

Sway is caused, in no particular order, by too little tongue weight (poor design and/or poor loading), cross winds, semis blowing by, driving too fast especially downhill, sudden braking and any emergency manueuver like a lane change. Sway is especially dangerous because steering makes it worse rather than correcting it. Most tow vehicles have a big rear overhang--call it the "school bus effect". If you turn left, the hitch ball and trailer tongue in a brief instant jerk to the right then in the next instant jerk back to follow the tv in the direction of the original turn. If you now picture a driver sawing at the steering wheel to correct, you can see the tt continue to jerk around even more with each correction. Brake controllers have an emergency lever for actuating the trailer brakes only to pull the tt back into line behind the tv. The trick is to drive so automatically you reach for the trailer brakes before jerking the steering wheel even more or hitting the tv brakes. Most of us can't count on being that lucid in an emergency so anti sway devices are the back up for the unforeseen.

IMHO, you need a weight distributing hitch and anti sway device to make a safe stable rig going down the road even for a 20 ft. or less trailer. The best wd hitches are all in ones with the anti sway designed into the hitch. The two most commonly used are probably the Reese DC and the Equal-i-zer. Less desirable, especially for the size trailer you're looking at are the add on friction bars sold by many RV dealers as "good enough" because they're cheap. When you compare these to Reese and Equal-i-zer you start to see how add on they are with an extra plate and ball on the hitch head and holes drilled into the tongue. They also need to be disconnected before making a tight turn and if you forget something will bend/break. When you're ready, JohnB is the resident hitch expert and can help you with diy installation so you can buy a good hitch online at a decent price.

You'll also need a good brake controller. Many of us use one of the Tekonsha models. The Prodigy and P3 are both very good, come with a custom wiring harness and are very easy to install and setup. The best prices will also be online. Again, ask when you get that far.

Henry

[JohnB]

Hi Roger

Welcome to Sunline Owners Club.

I see Henry gave a most excellent post. Not a whole lot I can add other then to emphaszise on getting a ladder and looking at all roof edges and any penetrations like roof vents and tank vents. Take a pair of binoculars so you can see from the side of the roof to where you may not be able to reach. The rear corners and the front main seam to where it front side comes into the rubber roof. Fine hair line cracks do need to be caulked but it is the very large gapped ones that area a heads up. Look inside anywhere you see some of them. Sniff too. If there has been a leak the smell will be like damp musty wood. Once you smell it you will never forget it.

The running gear, springs bushings, axle bearings and brakes will need a check and grease repack for sure so you know where you are starting from. Tires, you can look for the DOT date code if they are over 5 years old, they will need to go before any large trip for sure.

If you are hands on, and with your background there is not much you cannot fix in a TT. Especially with the forum here we can help point you where to look.

I see your from North Tonawada. My wife Cindy is from Williamsville and her family still lives there and we go back at least once a year sometimes more.

Your hunt for a Sunline, I looked up the T2475 and I believe that floor plan stopped in 2005. Sunline Fan our resident historian I'm sure would know.

I did a quick look on this site and did not see one but there are some others there. Used Sunline RV For Sale - Sunline Fifth Wheel, Travel Trailer and Toy Hauler RVs, Motorhomes and Motor homes

I also see they have a 2003 triple slide Sunline 5th wheel. I need to stop looking as that is the layout we like... And I really do not need another camper.

Good luck on your search and if we can help, ask away.

John

[RMBrooks]

John, thanks for your post.

Williamsville, well it never fails to impress me how many folks are FROM Buffalo. They are all great folks too. Some of the best people you will ever meet.

You hit the nail I have been the most concerned with, that is roof leaks getting into the wooden structure and causing hidden and hard to repair damage.

On a boat we tend to thump things with your hand or mallet and punky or delaminated areas sound dull. I understand how water and the sun are the enemies.

If a roof does need replaced what are people using for materials. The new trailer are hawking TPO as the latest and greatest.

I think Henry (my Dad's name was Henry a solid name and person) said these are not walk on roofs, I was surprised by that. What is the construction of the roof, I am thinking bowed wood trusses with a plywood deck? Too thin to walk on?

I admit I have not looked for a thread on this but here is the vin from the trailer near Ottawa. I would like to decode it for understanding.
####

Thank you, Regards, Roger

[JohnB]

Hi Roger

On the roof, see here on these 2 posts for how the newer rubber roofs are made up

http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...roof-9978.html

And this one with pics
http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f6...ture-8925.html

Do not take that out of context. The budboard is a backer for the EPDM rubber and is bonded to and then placed over the rafters. It is a sound method and has been proven over many many years. Sunline was one of the early RV companies that created light weight campers using unique methods to accomplish this. If you have a leak, plywood or budboard you have a problem. The plywood is not going to save you. However if you do get a leak the budboard can wick the water a good distance. Point: Stay on top of the roof caulking and inpect often. This goes for any RV using a TPO or EPDM roofing. TPO I have heard has a felt type backing that wicks water too. Or at least the early version of RV TPO did.

"Some" Sunline rubber roofs have 1/8" luan board over the rafters and then the bud board/rubber. Others just have the budboard and rubber. It seems the weight rating of the coach if it can take on more weight can have the 1/8" luan. Some models if ordered as an option have a walk on roof. A full walk on or a partial walk on with I think 3/8 or 1/2" OSB baord. But that is an option that had to be ordered when they built the unit. If I remember right it could add ~ 300# more to the camper pending how long the TT was.

The roof truss, here is a pic of the inside of a salvaged Sunline from EMD_Driver and Kitty. They bought this unit for parts and they have graciously took pics to share with us on how these units are made from the inside out. The knowledge is priceless. This is from a 2004 T299SR



Now how to access the roof to do maintenance etc. I do it all the time and it is not a problem. This is the method I use.
Start with a good solid ladder on solid ground


Then I put down a canvas to not rub/scratch the rubber. Then pieces of 1/2" plywood where you need to work. Mine are 2' x 4'. Easy enough to handle and they can span the 16" on center rafters.


The rubber roofs can last a good long time. It depends on how the prior owner cared for it. Was it stored inside, did they use any type of UV protectent over the years, did they wash it 3 or 4 times a year?

While inside storage is hands down the best... taken care and preventative maintenance is king to have a good long lasting roof.

I do not know if you need to replace the entire roof. Before I would go to that extent need to know what it is you will get. They do offer liquid rubber coating made for EDPM once they have weathered very thin.

If you get to that point, here is a product I have found if I ever have to go to a re-coating. For now, this is many years off as I keep after mine. I have never used this product, just found it and book marked it and hope they still make it the day I need to ever use it.

RV Roof Repair with Liquid Roof and Liquid Rubber

Hope this helps and good luck on your Sunline search

John

[RMBrooks]

JohnB , thank you.

Very informative, and yes a picture is worth 1000 words. I had not heard the term budboard.

Man your trailer looks nice even on the top, well loved.... I am pretty fanatical about my boat as well.

If I do find a nice Sunny then more stuff will own me as Joann like to say.

Roger